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THE ASSEMBLY AS SEEN IN THE CLOSE OF THE GOSPELS (1)

JT The thought in mind is the assembly as seen in the endings of the gospels, first the family link as in John and then the link of grace as in Luke, so that we may see the working of the assembly in view of the conditions that have arisen on the earth, the violence that has come in. God may help us to see what is in the assembly, not simply so many persons, but what God has in the assembly as an offset to all the evil here; that He has something He can go on with and use in view of the end. It is thought that we should begin with the Spirit in this inquiry. John begins early with preparation for the new order of things in Christianity and chapter 14 introduces the Spirit. We shall see Him later, of course, in chapter 20, as breathed into the disciples. The Lord is taking the subject up here in view of chapter 20, to prepare us, or the disciples, for the great fact of the Spirit’s coming and His operations with a view to the assembly. It is thought that God has taken account of conditions that have arisen on the earth, unparalleled conditions, bringing out the wickedness of man here on earth, and then offsetting it by what He has here in the assembly, not simply the persons, but what is in the assembly viewed as an organism. The order of man that God has secured would show what He has in the assembly before He begins to work in Israel and the nations. The verses read begin with love for Christ and the keeping of His commandments, and the Spirit given.

HGH Is the suggestion that the assembly is the scene of the Spirit’s operations in our day?

JT ^[p. 2] Yes, it is the greatest thought operationally, I suppose, and the greatest thought familywise. God has it now, not simply persons, but over against the awful development in man that has come about in our time, He has actually, in the assembly already, the new order of man that is according to His mind. We are on a high level here leading up to chapter 20. What is going on in the assembly in the way of divine visitations brings about response to them, over against the awfulness of the conditions that are abroad. We have every advantage in the presence of the Spirit, the Father and the Son coming in and the Spirit operating, indicating visitations — coming and going — the active service of divine Persons.

AEH The word “the Comforter” used by the Lord in speaking of the Holy Spirit conveys the idea of managing our affairs. In the early part of the chapter does it have reference to managing our affairs inwardly, so that we might be restful and full of comfort and grace in the presence of all these awful things around, not so much making way for us through these things but helping us inwardly in them?

JT Yes, divine Persons are carrying on, the Lord Himself being in evidence, telling us all about it by instructing us as to how things are to go on, the coming and going of divine Persons and the effect of it inwardly and outwardly in a family way. I think there is the evidence of all this in a little way throughout the world. God is going on with it in the midst of the turmoil and violence.

AR What do you mean by coming and going?

JT The Lord says, “I am coming to you. Yet a little and the world sees me no longer; but ye see me; because I live ye also shall live”. It is a wonderful thing that we are directly in touch with heaven through divine Persons being active in coming and going. The effect of that is to be known among us.

CN The Lord says, “The Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him”.

JT That is good. The Lord calls attention to what they and we have to do with — the rulers who have no part in Him at all, but we know Him.

HH It raises the question of what knowledge we have of the assembly and how much attention we are giving to it.

JT We have been holding it theoretically, perhaps, and not apprehending its origin, character, and testimony, what God has in all this dispensation, what He is going on with in an unseen way, although the effect is seen outwardly. Hence, I think the Lord has sought to remind us that the assembly is not a mere servant to us or something to be resorted to at times. It is the chief thought of God. So it has been remarked many times, “Let not the assembly be charged”, (1 Timothy 5:16). Take care of it, do not make it common.

JHE Being an organism, it needs the Spirit’s help.

JT That is right, organism is the word; indeed, it is active in that sense.

ANW Does the reference to the individual in verses 21 and on give the character of the conditions to which the divine Persons will come?

JT That is good, I am sure. The word ‘assembly’ is not used in John, but the persons who form it are spoken of; but it is not forgotten that it is an organism. We begin here, “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter”. We cannot think that that Comforter is given to each of us severally. It is a collective thought. The Lord says, “That he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him”. The ye is ^[p. 4] emphatic; it is a plural thought. It is a matter of what we have together, “Ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you”. That must be a collective thought.

ANW Judas, not Iscariote, confirms that as he asks the Lord, “How is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us and not to the world?”. He evidently takes it as a collective matter.

JT Yes, and a love matter too, not a mere theoretical, or doctrinal thought; it is the persons that are in mind, and what is said of them shows it must be a collective thing. There must be an organism involved.

CAM Would you say the word ‘orphans’ in verse 18 stresses the idea of family?

JT You can see how it touches us. The family is in view in that sense. The Lord’s word implies fatherhood in the sense in which John speaks of it. He tells us that the Lord called them “children”; they were ‘His own’.

CN Does the position of the Lord Jesus on high and the presence of the Holy Spirit down here make up for all that would make us orphans as regards the world conditions which you have in mind?

JT Yes, and as the worldling comes in touch with those of whom the Lord speaks, he finds something there that he did not know of before.

RWS Would the orphan conditions for the ten days only give emphasis to the reality of the Comforter when He came?

JT Yes, the ten days would bring that out. The ten days, which we shall see in the Acts, brought out what they were and how much they could do for one another. Peter could take a lead and propose what should be done, before the Spirit came, but how great the effect when the Spirit actually came, and began to function, and they began to function in His power. So you learn by contrast, but still the ten ^[p. 5] days brought out remarkable results, the working of Christ alone among them.

FSC Were only the disciples left orphans?

JT I think so. I do not think there would be any in the future having that status.

AP Do you think that the teaching of the Holy Spirit here forms part of the great provision the Lord has for us? The Lord said, “Let not your heart be troubled; ye believe on God, believe also on me” (John 14:1). In His service here, the Spirit is meeting the idea of restless hearts. It would set us at rest in regard to the realm of divine things.

JT Yes, He would put everything right. The Lord is anticipating that, but He is doing it, too, while He is with them; He is telling them of greater things.

AM The Lord said, “If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”; that is divine manifestations to individuals.

JT In the first reference to it we get the order, the love first. “If ye love me, keep my commandments”. In the other one that you speak of the Lord says, “If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”. Verses 15 to 17 are the ones for us to dwell on now; what the Spirit is as among us, as secured by love and prayer; secured by the Lord’s intercession for us. The Spirit has to be viewed by Himself first as worth having, and then there are the activities of the Son and the Father that the saints might have Him.

AEM The Spirit would require a realm of active love and obedience in which to operate.

JT I think we want to get on to that. We are touching now the operational side, and the conditions for operations. The conditions must flow out from divine Persons, but can we not be brought into ^[p. 6] them? It is a question now of whether we desire this. The Lord makes the suggestion as to whether we desire these conditions, or are we content to be grovelling along to think little or nothing of them. The Lord is intimating that these conditions are there. “If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you”. The Lord is throwing it back on them, as it were, in an abstract way, saying these things are so and are attainable. What brings them about is indicated; that is, love. If there is not love for Christ, there is no value in talking about it at all. If there is not love for Christ, there is certainly none for the brethren; but if there be love for Christ, and then the keeping of the commandments, what will not the Lord do under those circumstances?

HGH Does the word, “He abides with you, and shall be in you” suggest the Spirit’s operations in the assembly?

JT That is the idea. He is going to operate, not simply with you, but in you, and that implies the assembly as an organism. So that the greatest possible operations are going on, and conditions are there for them too. Men are going on too, of course, and God is with them in mercy and we pray for them, but they have no part in this at all. It is an inner matter and belongs to the highest realm. The Lord is saying it is for us; it is a matter of prayer, love, and keeping the commandments.

HB Would you say what these commandments would be for us?

JT Well, such as the Lord would give. He is not telling us what they are to be, but it is a question ^[p. 7] of being ready for any commandments at all. He is ready to give whatever is needed.

AEH Would there be more spiritual character to these commandments than the commandments in 1 Corinthians, for instance?

JT I think we have to consider whence they come. Paul is giving them in 1 Corinthians and he is saying they are the Lord’s. What he is giving, I think, is specified, but what is mentioned here is not specified. It is a question of what the Lord will give.

AEH I was thinking of certain things coming out in current ministry by the Spirit. Eventually they take the character of a commandment although we may not be able to find a verse.

JT Well, I think we shall not get much help from the ministry unless we take up the specific ones stated by the apostle.

AEH I was thinking we might look for something more spiritual at the end than that.

JT I do not think we shall get help unless we take up the specific ones, because we are apt to be too high in our attitude in what we call the ministry meeting or prophetic meeting. They are not quite as high, you know, as we think they are.

AEH Then perhaps we ought to look more at 1 Corinthians.

JT I should certainly say that, to see what Paul has said. The Lord had certain things to say, but Paul says much more. It is a question of level. For instance, the Lord goes up to heaven Himself and gives gifts to men. What is the level there? He went beyond all the heavens we are told, and in Corinthians, what is the level there? It is not hard to see.

APT It says in Acts the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey Him. Would that include all that you ^[p. 8] suggested?

JT Yes, that is the attitude of the soul, those who obey. They get the Spirit, showing that the idea of the commandments must come in here. “If ye love me, keep my commandments”.

JHE Would Rebecca help? After the presentation of the servant, the question was put, “Wilt thou go with this man? And she said, I will go” (Genesis 24:58).

JT Yes. That is what the parents ask. It was not the servant of Abraham, not that it was not a good question. It was a good question, but it brought out what was there. They must go back to the beginning of the family. That principle must be in the family of God, and Abraham was the head of the family. The thing originated there.

JHE I was thinking the Holy Spirit does not command such, but His presentation was so wonderful that she was prepared to go on further.

JT Yes, she said, “I will go”. There is not much in that, you know. The details there do not help much spiritually. It is a question of the point of origin that God is operating from; that is, Abraham.

FC In relation to Acts 13 the conditions of love are operating among the brethren and certain are prophets and teachers, persons who are on different social levels naturally; and they are ministering to the Lord in prayer and fasting and the Spirit says, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul” Acts 13:2. Is that in line?

JT That is very good, a divine Person actually speaking Himself. We are not told who the medium was. Now the conditions were there, the time had come. He could have said the same before, but the conditions were not there. “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them”. It is a rare occasion, in which the Holy Spirit is speaking directly, although I suppose there was a medium, but it is put directly, as if it is Himself.

^[p. 9] That is a good point to get to, the level where divine Persons are acting themselves.

JTJr The level of the local meeting is really determined by the state of the leaders.

JT Well, it is a question of what there is. Of course, there is no doubt that each meeting might be measured, and that is what one was thinking, that there might be deliverance from all things that are interfering with the operations of the Spirit; so that there should be always a year of release, all complaints dealt with so that the brethren are released and happy together. Otherwise you do not get what is contemplated here.

JTJr In John 5 we have the state of the pool, but the Lord would correct the state. We do not want a continuation of a pool condition. The Lord interfered there. It was a question of a season, the angel disturbed the pool every year. We should rise out of that condition to something higher.

JT Quite so. That poor man had to wait a long time because the conditions were not there. Of course, we cannot compare these with conditions in Rochester or New York, but these things ought to be looked into, what conditions are in assemblies because divine operations are dependent on these conditions.

ABP Are the conditions in chapters 9 - 13 necessary to reach this condition of things in chapter 14?

JT No doubt. The Lord’s word here is a new suggestion, no doubt dependent on what preceded it, because things are built up systematically in the gospel. The Lord says, “If”; He is raising the question with the disciples as to whether love is there. I am sure that is the point just now as to what conditions there are in local gatherings.

AEH At the end of the previous chapter we have a very self-confident attitude taken by one of ^[p. 10] the disciples and the Lord manifests how dangerous it is to trust or have any confidence of that kind by saying, “The cock shall not crow till thou hast denied me thrice” John 13:38. There is self-confidence in Peter which the Lord deals with.

JT Quite so. No doubt these chapters lead up to what we are dealing with and it is quite clear that it is a question of state; conditions in a locality enter into it, whether there is love for Christ. If there is not love for Christ, there is not love for one another; but if there is love for Christ, there will be the keeping of the commandments. Then we see what the Lord will do. “I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter”. It is the beginning of this subject of the Comforter, “that he may be with you for ever”. So we have a new thing here entering into the operational system - the Comforter. Therefore, we have two sides to this important line, namely, the Comforter down here, but the first is, the Lord Himself coming in to open the matter up.

AMacD The Lord says, “The Spirit of truth”. As we recognise Him thus, we would be helped to arrive at a good state, as over against what is in the world?

JT Quite so. It is a regulating idea that is introduced, not only the Spirit, but the Spirit of truth. That must be understood. He is the Spirit of truth, and He comes because of certain conditions. If we get the great operational thought of God, we shall see the force of what is said here. The operations are to proceed now in the face of the most terrible conditions among the nations and among men. Divine Persons are coming in and going out among us; and the element of truth is introduced among us which is a corrective thought, for we are to be adjusted in all matters. Matters are constantly coming up which should be answered locally and ^[p. 11] would be if conditions exist such as the Lord has in mind. The Spirit of truth is here to deal with conditions, and we are to be speaking truth one to another. “Do not lie to one another”, Colossians 3:9.

JH-tt Does the state exemplified in Judah when he is prepared to give himself as bondman in place of Benjamin, influence the others and make way for this? Joseph was prepared to make himself known.

JT Very good, one ready to sacrifice.

RA The Spirit of truth would seek to preserve the position in connection with Mary in John 12, that she may have the liberty to bring forward the pound of ointment.

JT The only great obstacle or darkening influence there was Judas. It would seem as if things went well in that meeting at Bethany and the Lord knew it. The great darkening influence was Judas. We are apt to have that sort of thing.

AB You were referring to hindrances to the operational side. In 1 Corinthians there are many hindrances, but in the last chapter we have, “Let all things ye do be done in love” 1 Corinthians 16:14.

JT Quite so. We could hardly grasp what is in mind in specific commandments save as we study 1 and 2 Corinthians. They would lead us to higher levels. The incident spoken of in Acts 13 shows there is nothing to interfere. The Spirit of God is now free, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them” Acts 13:2. There is nothing to interfere. Paul and Barnabas had been there for a year teaching in the assembly. That showed how great the need was for that, that a crowd of people being taught should be developed into an assembly. Assembly conditions are brought about in chapter 13, so that the Spirit of God is free to act and direct what is to be done.

^[p. 12] JB Would the movements of the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Jesus towards Europe in Acts 16 be seen with them in their movements?

JT Just so, they would have gone elsewhere but the Spirit of Jesus did not suffer them. That all bears on what we are saying, that conditions are brought about so that divine operations should proceed, and the divine operations had no less a scope than the western world. We must not interfere with the scope of divine operations. The nearer we get to divine Persons the more we shall get the scope of Their commandments. Even between the Father and Son there are commandments. The Lord says, “I have received this commandment of my Father” (John 10:18). He was going to carry it out.

HH They were characteristic lovers of Christ in Antioch in Acts 13.

JT I would say that. The testimony is built up in that way and as John Mark was lost to the sphere of operations, we reach a Timothy; Paul finds him and makes inquiry about him. The nearby meetings know about him and Paul circumcised him, whatever that meant, he did it so that that young man should be secured for the operations of God.

JAP Do you think cutting in a straight line the word of truth would help in matters in our localities?

JT Quite so, it is a question of making room for what proceeds from God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

CN Does verse 21 show the workability of the economy? You said earlier that these commandments are not specified, but verse 21 shows that persons who have them and keep them are loved by the Father.

JT I think that is a good way to touch it, that the persons are under the influence of the Father.

RWS Allusion has been made to the beginnings in Europe and the Spirit that was in those who were ^[p. 13] operating; is the thought that the same spirit that was in Paul and others should be in us now as we come to the end of the dispensation?

JT That is the idea, whether God’s work can continue in this way, however small we are, that men of that kind, that are there and available, are not allowing conditions that would interfere. If there is a need for the year of release, let it be put into operation, that old feelings are dispelled so that God may continue to work.

AR What do you have in your mind as to the year of release?

JT It is in Deuteronomy. We are apt to have wrong feelings toward one another, which are not removed. That is the idea, I think. If they are not removed, the operations of God are interfered with; and if they are removed, we shall have more from God.

WJW Would that be on the line of quenching the Spirit — holding things against one another?

JT That is right.

AP In Psalm 132 the Lord had His place and in Psalm 133 the brethren are together in a right way. I was thinking of that providing conditions to bring in the peace.

JT You come to another point there. That is the psalm where the Lord commands the blessing. You can see that the blessing is commanded, but it appears that nothing is in the way, because conditions are being reached in unity among the brethren. Conditions are reached so that the divine commandment is proclaimed. That is how the millennium will begin; the commandment of God is the divine thought, with a view to the working out of eternal life.

HH The ark has come to Zion in Psalm 132, hence brethren can dwell together in ^[p. 14] unity.

JT Judas, not Iscariote, raises the question, “Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us and not to the world?” That is a good question. “Jesus answered and said to him, If any one love me, he will keep my word”. Not the commandment, but the word, the divine mind expressed perhaps in ministry. “If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”. What a thing that is! The way is quite clear for the Father and Son to come to a brother. Then, “He that loves me not does not keep my words”. Notice the words now; persons are not keeping them. Some are apt to say, I do not see this matter of covering or some other thing. First He speaks about one who keeps His word, and now in verse 24, “He that loves me not does not keep my words”. People mention actual words of Scripture and say I do not see that. Well, it is there. The Lord is saying that it is a serious matter not to keep His words, because we are to go by the words. Just one word is necessary to clarify the position, and if we object we are standing in the way.

AR Certain ministry is hindering certain localities. In some places they do not see the idea of the city reading; in other places they do not see the idea of uniting together. What causes these hindering elements?

JT Well, you can see that here, “He that loves me not does not keep my words”. That just meets what you are saying. Ministry the Lord is giving is not accepted in certain localities. The Lord’s word ought to be understood and accepted. If we set up our wills against it, things are not kept. That is what the Lord is alluding to. “The word which ye hear is not mine, but that of the Father who has sent me”. Now we are coming to a thing of importance - delegated authority. We have to make room for that too. And again, “These things I have said to you, abiding with you; but the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name”, that is the Lord’s name. We see here wonderful suggestions that the Father sends in the Lord’s name, “He shall teach you all things, and will bring to your remembrance all the things which I have said to you”. Why should we have any difficulties? The Spirit of God is here to teach us, and if will is not working everything will be intelligible.

AEH Is there something in the fact that the word the Lord uses in regard to knowing the Holy Spirit is the word referring to objective knowledge? Do we get a lot of gain in objective knowledge?

JT Much more could be said on this passage, but I thought we should go on to chapter 17 which is the very essence of everything. It contains the words which proceeded from the Lord’s own mouth as looking up to heaven. We get wonderful communications from the Son to the Father in this chapter. One has felt hesitant to introduce it at all in a substantial way because the chapter is so wonderful, but it is necessary that we might have before us what a time we are in. The Lord Jesus lifted up His eyes to heaven and speaks to the Father about certain things committed in this chapter. He says in the closing verse, “And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them”. This is the very topmost thought, I would think, in an objective sense, that we should have the Father’s love for the Son in our hearts not simply love for one another, but the Father’s love for the Son in our hearts. “And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them”. I would say that verse constitutes persons in it as fit for the very topmost ^[p. 16] part of heaven where the assembly is going. The Father’s love for the Son in our hearts — there is a lot to be cleared away for that, you know; if we revert back to earlier thoughts, there is a lot to be dealt with so that we should have this, that the Father’s love for the Son should be in our hearts.

AEH “I in them” — is that characteristic, that Christ is formed in us substantially in the degree in which we appreciate the Father’s love for the Son?

JT Yes, the Father’s love for the Son should be in our hearts. The Lord said in chapter 14, “Yet a little and the world sees me no longer; but ye see me; because I live ye also shall live. In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”. That is the level of chapter 14. “Ye in me, and I in you”. That is in view of what we have in chapter 14, but in chapter 17 we have “I in them”. That is, the Lord is now anticipating being in us because the Father’s love is in us. That quality of love is in us making way for the Son in placing His love in our hearts.

AR Are we brought into the fellowship of divine Persons, the same love that existed between divine Persons? “I in them and thou in me”.

JT “And the glory which thou hast given me I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one; I in them and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and that thou hast loved them as thou hast loved me”. This is leading up to what we have in verse 26. It is the climax of what we are dealing with now. “And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known” meaning He is looking forward to permanency in this thought. It is this dispensation of grace that is contemplated, “the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them”.

CAM ^[p. 17] Would you say that the chapter commences with eternal life and would bring us to the end of all the world of need, where need is experienced, and therefore it brings in these wonderful conditions? Do you think most of our exercises are concerned with the need side?

JT It seems to me that chapter 17 is the climax of the teaching. It really affords us a wonderful scope of things beginning with chapter 13, the teaching the Lord had in mind for them in view of the place above, nothing less than that. This last verse would make us fit for the topmost; our part in heaven, the Father’s love for the Son, not simply for us, but for the Son, in us and He in us. That is a fixed thing that we have to apprehend and reach.

ABP Eternal conditions brought into the present?

JT Just so.

HH Certainly you could not add a word to that. It is the topmost stone.

JT This is what the Lord has in mind for us. It is no millennial thought; it is far beyond anything else. It is a course of instruction from chapter 13 right on to this. This verse is the top note, the top stone, that we are made fit for the highest place, with Christ in heaven, but not indeed where divine Persons are. The Lord is gone beyond all heavens, but we are speaking of heaven itself, that which was created. This, it seems to me, is the top stone of it. Paul speaks about the third heaven. We are not told there are any more in number, but the Lord Jesus has gone beyond all the heavens. That is His own personal distinction as a divine Person. This verse contemplates the very topmost part of it where the Father’s love for Christ is in us, and He in us on account of that. There is nothing to add to that.

AB Would it synchronise with Paul’s thought in Ephesians, “filled even to all the fulness of God”? Ephesians 3:19 I think it would.

APT I would like to ask whether that is as far as we can go as creatures?

JT I do not know that we can go further. The Father’s love for the Son in us, and He in us you can hardly add anything to. It is God’s thought that we are brought to that, the Father’s love for the Son in us and He in us.

AB The operational side is wonderful. The Lord says, “And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known”. So that the heavenly side is beyond all that has preceded.

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