GOD PRESENT IN PROPHETIC MINISTRY
[p. 389] GOD PRESENT IN PROPHETIC MINISTRY
1 Samuel 10:5,6; 1 Samuel 19:19 - 24; 1 Corinthians 14:23 - 33
JT It is in mind to call attention to prophesying, and how the instruction regarding it in Scripture would enter into 1 Corinthians 14, where the service is peculiarly connected with the assembly, that is, the whole assembly in a place. The “hill of God” points to the assembly, whether viewed in its local or universal setting, suggesting what is specially advantageous as excluding what would hinder. The enemy would always attack the hill of God. The instruction in 1 Samuel is unique as to the subject of prophecy. The idea of a seer is used earlier in relation to the prophet, but had become changed, as if the ministry of prophecy had taken definite form to meet the current position. What is to be noted is that the Philistines’ outpost is found on the hill of God in chapter 10:5.
Then in chapter 19:20 the prophets are actually prophesying and Samuel is presiding over them. This makes the service effective, co-ordinating and regulating it. We have remarkable power displayed, turning a murderous man — king Saul — into a prophet. This nullifies his opposition to David as typical of Christ. Another thing to be noted is that as the service is proceeding, a revelation comes to one sitting by (1 Corinthians 14:30). We are reminded of the need of the Spirit in the exercise of all gift, but especially in prophesying. 1 Corinthians 14 gathers up all this instruction and places it in the assembly; it is there the service is now to be carried on. We must keep clearly before us the whole assembly, because that is the thought of the chapter — “If therefore the whole assembly come together in one place”, 1 Corinthians 14:23.
HH Would you say how Saul may be regarded [p. 390] here?
JT In chapter 10 we see him being initiated into the service, so the instruction is for any of us who would serve in this way. The hill of God is the place where God is; it is to be fortified and furnished so that the service can go on. The point is that there were those who were carrying on the service; they were prophesying. Those coming in have to learn to fall in with what is already there; there can be no independency.
HH In chapter 19 Saul is shamefully exposed.
JT You have the proverb that is brought forward there previously mentioned in chapter 10:11, “Is Saul also among the prophets?” (1 Samuel 10:11) It is mentioned in view of the history of Saul. He is completely exposed in chapter 19, although he is found amongst the prophets, and his evil intent is nullified.
GAL Does the mention of musical instruments in the first passage give the positive bearing of this kind of ministry?
JT I suppose they would bring the state of the prophets into accord with their service. Elisha called for a minstrel (2 Kings 3:15). The state of the meeting enhances the service and draws it out rather than checks it.
AJG Does the meeting of the company of prophets involve the recognition of the body and the need in us to take up the service in the Spirit?
JT Connecting it with 1 Corinthians 14, that is how it stands. Chapters 10, 11, 12 and 13 of that epistle all enter into chapter 14. The truth of the body bears on the state of the meeting and enhances the service. “For ye can all prophesy one by one”, suggests our being free and sympathetic one with another. The delicacy of our relations together as in the body underlies the service.
PL Would drinking all out of the same cup as seen in the prophetic gospel Mark promote this?
[p. 391] JT That is a good reference. In Matthew the Lord told the disciples to do so, but in Mark it says they did it, stressing the unity in what is pleasurable and satisfying. This would check all tendency to make a show in the service, or to any rivalry.
FSM Would you say what it is to prophesy today?
JT It is a gift by itself. It is not exactly teaching, though a word given may have that character. It is something from God. We do not look for revelation in the sense of addition to what was revealed in Christ, but Ephesians 1:17 speaks of “the spirit of wisdom and revelation”. It is the spirit of revelation now, and this is still seen in that there is something from God, and He Himself is brought in by the prophetic ministry, as 1 Corinthians 14 says, “God is in you of a truth”. This is the result of the prophetic ministry, that God is known to be here in the assembly. That raises the question of the Holy Spirit, and it is to be noted that in the scriptures read in Samuel it is said that the Holy Spirit had come upon the individuals who prophesied. We cannot limit what may come if we make room for the Spirit.
PL Right feelings marked the prophets at Antioch in Acts 13, and the Holy Spirit speaks.
JT And it is after they had fasted and prayed.
AMH Would the voice of the Spirit to each of the assemblies in Revelation 2 and 3 show the character of prophetic ministry? What is needed in each is disclosed, and Christ presented in relation to that, and then the Spirit’s voice is referred to.
JT What the Spirit says is left open. What Christ says is recorded and in each case would indicate what is needed. What the Spirit says enlarges on that, and would of course be through instruments selected by Him possibly over extended periods. We are therefore enjoined to be attentive to what [p. 392] the Spirit says.
DLH Would not the prophet in the assembly speak to edification, encouragement, and consolation; I suppose a word might take any of these features?
JT Yes. There is the idea, however, of something revealed. One might get up and speak very nicely and edify and comfort, but then the prophetic word goes further; that is, something is revealed to one sitting by We are in touch with the living source of everything, it brings us back to the beginning in a very living way; God Himself comes in, the Source of all enrichment.
HH Verse 31 says, “For ye can all prophesy one by one”. Is that the mutual side?
JT The tongues and the prophesying are limited to three, which brings the thought of mutual consideration. It should be accepted that prophecy is a gift. The subject begins in that way in chapter 14:1. “Follow after ... but rather that ye may prophesy (1 Corinthians 14:1)”. If the voice of a young brother is heard as giving a word, you should think of him and pray for him accordingly, for the Lord will use him again. The young brothers are to be brought into this, that is what is in mind in 1 Samuel 10. One is seen being initiated into his service by the environment.
AJG Does the idea of a prophet in our day, as in the Old Testament times, involve that he has a secret understanding with God; that he has that place in relation to His people?
JT It says it was known from Dan to Beersheba that Samuel was established a prophet of Jehovah (1 Samuel 3:20). That is the basis of the matter, he is not seen in active service in chapters 4, 5 and 6, but in chapter 7 he is brought before us. Samuel is the great book for us in this respect — how the young men and sisters, too, are led on this way by secret relations with God. God reveals Himself to us by His word. Samuel’s history is intended to instruct us in this respect and he is ultimately known to be a prophet of Jehovah. Now he is leading another into it. The [p. 393] earlier work is supposed to be there, but alas it is hardly in Saul — hence it is a necessity for the young to make sure that they have secret relations with God.
GAL Is the underlying spiritual state seen in the earlier part of chapter 10?
JT There may be the objective knowledge of things in a brother’s soul, but the subjective side is in view when he is taken up — his service must be in the power of the Spirit of God. “Who is their father?” (1 Samuel 10:12), suggests that we are challenged as to our earlier history. So with Timothy in the New Testament — we are told who his antecedents were.
Ques Why is the outpost of the Philistines mentioned in connection with the hill of God?
JT The outpost of the Philistines being in the hill of God would show the object of the enemy’s attack today. It is specially against the place where God is, “the hill of God”. This shows the importance of keeping the local assembly always in view. It is necessary that we should reach the thought of the assembly in a place as often as possible. The hill of God is the place peculiarly furnished for the working out of God’s thoughts.
PL Is the idea of the locality specially seen in Amos 3:6,7: “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, ... Shall there be evil in a city ... But the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets”?
JT That is a good scripture and confirms that the Lord has those He can use. So it is not simply that one has an opportunity of saying something; but is it really prophesying? If a brother speaks thus we must watch him and regard him in that light, for God would use him again.
DLH Would you say a word as to the difference between the thought of the word of God coming to the assembly at Corinth, and prophetic testimony issuing out from amongst [p. 394] themselves?
JT In Acts 18:11 it says, “he remained there a year and six months, teaching among them the word of God”. The great point was to displace the mind of man by the word of God. That is how the assembly is formed — the word of God dominates. You see how this predominates in the ministry to the Corinthians. The word of the Lord is more seen at Ephesus, that is the military side. The idea is that the assembly is self-sustaining. After certain assemblies were formed, it says, elders were chosen in each assembly (Acts 14:23); meaning that there was to be so far self-sustainment. This of course applies to the Corinthians, and these chapters are to regulate them in regard to the use of gifts as necessary to the self-sustainment of the assembly. So prophecy comes in here as the great thing that Paul stresses. God is there, and how can we be preserved save by the presence of God?
Rem In Psalm 68 the hill of God is connected with Christ glorified.
JT Yes, the gifts came down from an ascended Christ. “Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts in Man (Psalm 68:18)”. It is Christ glorified and receiving gifts, and the assembly is endowed, according to the epistle to the Ephesians, in view of its maintenance here. The gifts are for the work of the ministry: for the edifying of the body of Christ.
FJH Would you say that a prophetic word need not necessarily be something distinctive in matter, but should be marked by the unction?
JT Well, there should be substance, too. It is noticeable that the Holy Spirit came upon certain ones; it is a question of the Spirit — the ministry is by the Spirit. The first person called a prophet in the Scriptures is Abraham, and God tells Abimelech that Abraham would pray for him (Genesis 20:7). In the psalm it is “Touch not mine anointed ones, and do my prophets no harm”, Psalm 105:15. What Abraham said in this sense would be in the power of the Spirit.
Ques Is the gift of prophecy distinct from the gift of preaching?
JT It is put very clearly for us in 1 Corinthians 12:28: “First, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers”. The prophet is a distinct gift, the teacher deals with what is already known, and his service bears on the Scriptures.
EuR Would the prophetic word involve bringing the mind of God to bear on existing current conditions?
JT It is hardly a question of foretelling events now, for this is not necessary. We should have some intuitive sense of what is coming. The scripture in Amos which has been already referred to has an important bearing on this. God can trust us with communications, and besides that there is the ability to give them out, involving the maintenance of close relations with God. It is by the Spirit of God coming upon one that one is conscious of this.
GAL Does God sometimes warn the saints by a prophetic word?
JT Yes. The ministry prepares you for what is coming. The minister may not know, but then God knows and He gives the word.
FI Is the ministry confined to prophecy?
JT What you have in verse 26 of 1 Corinthians 14 is a further thought. But verses 23 - 25 are to call attention to prophesying as bringing out that God is amongst us. If He is not there the hill of God is exposed.
Ques What is the thought in each one having a psalm, a doctrine, a tongue, a revelation, an interpretation?
JT It shows the variety there may be amongst the saints, but in the exercise of prophesying we are assured of the presence of God. If God is with us, what can the enemy do?
Ques What is the relation of prayer [p. 396] to prophecy?
JT God calls attention in Genesis to what Abraham had. The psalm quoted opens up the thing; the spiritual mind there enlarges on what the Pentateuch says. Moses in Exodus 12 gets communications from God as to the passover. Then he presents it in a levitical way, reducing it to a smaller compass for the people. He brings it down to them, whereas he might have enlarged upon it. God reminds Abimelech that it was to his advantage to have a man like Abraham in his kingdom, for he would pray for him. God would give rulers to understand that there are men here who are advantageous to them; on our part we are to pray for them; but then God would say. They are Mine. The word my is not in Genesis, but you come to the Psalms for that.
HH Then would you say, too, the prophets are for the preservation of the saints now? It says, “By a prophet Jehovah brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved”, (Hosea 12:13). Does that still go on?
JT Throughout the history of the world from Abraham onwards we have the thought of what God would have. God has the means of communicating through His prophets what men may hear. So the hill of God is seen in Psalm 68 and God dwells there. The ministry of prophecy brings down our wills more than anything else. At the same time it preserves, as you suggest, in establishing the fact that God is amongst us.
Ques Would it be correct for a brother to know the scripture and what he had in mind to say before the saints come together?
JT Well, it is a question of what he has. If he has a psalm or has a teaching to speak about, then it is for him to decide on the scripture to suit that. But then it is not only what he may bring, but it is what may come out during the meeting. That is one idea of the hill of God. There is such a state of things existing that God [p. 397] can speak there. He has His prophets in the assembly for that purpose. Their ministry establishes the fact that He is there.
JJ How does this agree with what is spoken of previously, regarding being together (chapter 11:18)?
JT What is spoken of earlier may work out in subdivisions because the assembly is spoken of there without the article. It is the character of our gathering together. But here in regard to this particular matter it is “If therefore the whole assembly come together in one place”. So you have God saying, as it were. This is what I have. The hill of God in the city is fortified and furnished in this way, so that His mind is disclosed there. The word revealed at the time is the greatest thought, as the outcome of spiritual conditions that exist.
FT Micah says, “As Jehovah liveth, even what Jehovah shall say to me, that will I speak”, (1 Kings 22:14).
JT Yes. Balaam says the same thing, but if he could he would speak otherwise. But God compelled him to speak His mind about Israel. But then a subject man characteristically is always available as he sits in the meeting. He is an available vessel for the Spirit of God.
AMH Is there anything in these meetings which makes them more suitable for week-days than Lord’s days?
JT I think such meetings are more needed through the week. It is a question of the hill of God and how to meet the enemy. As a rule, we are more free in our spirits on the Lord’s day. But it is particularly during the week the enemy attacks us, and we need strengthening against his attacks.
EuR Does not the week-day experience fit in more definitely with wilderness exercises rather than the [p. 398] land?
JT It does. There is really a good deal of laziness with us in connection with the meetings. We are not ready to give up natural comfort. But God honours those who make a covenant by sacrifice (Psalm 50:5). The brethren need particular help on the week-nights as found in the wilderness position. The prophetic word has a military setting in 1 Samuel 10. In chapter 19 we have typically the direct attack of the enemy upon Christ, and that in a man with the reputation of being amongst the prophets. Here Samuel is presiding over the prophets. With a situation like this, all efforts of the enemy fail. Saul is determined to attack, and his messengers come to take David, an this is what they find. “They saw a company of prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as president over them”. They are not simply officially prophets, but they are doing it — prophesying is proceeding. “And the Spirit of God came upon the messengers”. So we see that the Spirit of God is ready to come upon the person who is to be affected. In the saints coming together during the week there is protection; it is during the week that we find the world and Satan himself against us, and hence need this provision.
AMH I should like to ask how you regard the whole assembly coming together in large cities. In some places this meeting is taken up in a sectional way because of large numbers. Is that right?
JT Properly it is not a sectional matter. It is a question of what God has in the place, that in which He is known in this striking and effective way. Verse 23 is important — it is “the whole assembly”.
CFWB How should such meetings be described publicly?
JT It is safe to say that the meeting has prophetic ministry in view, and we see in what we have read that God will give it. This chapter shows how God uses it and what a place it has publicly. God will make known His mind — sometimes through [p. 399] unexpected persons.
AJG The prophetic word exposes any evil existent, so the enemy’s power is broken, and a way is made for those who move with God.
JJ How do you regard the four daughters of Philip who prophesied (Acts 21)?
JT They would not prophesy in the assembly, but they did prophesy. Scripture furnishes illustrations of women actually prophesying.
EJH Would not that household provide a good atmosphere for the mind of God to be communicated, so we have Agabus, a prophet, coming down saying, “Thus saith the Holy Spirit” (Acts 21:11)?
JT Just so. In all these instances you see what God had in a public way in this ministry. It fortifies the position and makes all realise that God is there; and what can we do without God?
Ques Would you say a little as to “let the others judge”?
JT The element of judgment is a good principle. Things said are confirmed by being weighed over and tested; this is a safeguard.
EuR If we are to get the gain of all this, is it not necessary to be prepared to be changed into another man as was said to Saul, “And shalt be turned into another man”, 1 Samuel 10:6?
JT It is, but Saul was not equal to this, as the sequel proved. With regard to the judging, this requires that in thinking of what I should say when the brother who may be speaking sits down, I must pay attention to what he is saying. I should not like the younger brothers to miss the value of these scriptures, as to how one is initiated by the environment and what is brought to their attention in others, and that this service is to be in the power of the Spirit of God. Even with Saul it is the Spirit of God which came upon him. We should make room for that great fact and keep it in mind. Thus prophecy is not the outcome of what is mental, for it is a question of the Spirit of [p. 400] God coming upon me. The need is pressing, but the Spirit of God comes upon men whom God would use so as to convey His mind, and in this the excellency of the power is of Him and not of us.
Rem In the rebellion of Adonijah, Nathan the prophet filled an important part. Adonijah raised himself up, but Nathan was available to be used of God to bring about his overthrow.
JT That is a good reference. But for Nathan, Satan would have succeeded. Prophecy is an unanswerable thing. God is there, and hence what can the enemy do?