THE LIVING WATER
[p. 165] THE LIVING WATER
JT We might consider the way the Holy Spirit is presented in the gospel of John, and I suggested this scripture, to begin with, as indicating how the need of the individual is met, so that he might be qualified for testimony in chapter 7; then, in the section from chapters 14 to 16 inclusive, we have the Spirit presented mainly in the character of Comforter, in relation to the company.
Rem He is presented first in relation to the individual, and then in relation to the company.
JT Yes. And in chapter 20 He is not presented formally as the Person, it is the Spirit characteristically that is prominent; Christ as the last Adam breathed into His disciples and said, “Receive [the] Holy Spirit” John 20: 22; the reference is to the lungs, so to speak.
In chapter 1 the Spirit is introduced by John in a general way — “He” (referring to the Lord) “it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit” John 1: 33. Baptism with the Holy Spirit conveys the idea that we are merged or covered in Him; it is a remarkable expression. “For by one Spirit are we all baptised into one body” (1 Corinthians 12: 13), so that, as baptised one is so to speak merged in what the Holy Spirit forms here, and in that sense out of sight by the Spirit. This is of very great significance when considered in the light of what Christ does in taking up each of us and affecting us in this way — in baptising with the Holy Spirit.
MWB Suggesting that He is the One who pervades everything through the Spirit, and is thus marked off as the Son of God.
JT He has power in that way to effect everything, so that all is merged in the Spirit. Baptism with water means that one is put out of sight. The idea of being baptised with the Holy Spirit is put over against John’s [p. 166] baptism. In his case it was baptism with water, in contrast to what Christ would do, in baptising with the Spirit — the latter is an immense thing for us. The former is negative, having reference to the judgment of sin, the latter is positive. In Corinthians the application of the baptism of the Spirit involves the truth of the body — “For by one Spirit are we all baptised into one body ... and have been all made to drink into one Spirit” 1 Corinthians 12: 13; the double statement in the verse refers to the two ordinances, baptism and the Lord’s supper, but making the thoughts spiritual. John 1 brings Christ in, as the One who baptises with the Holy Spirit, so that finally the whole scene will be so characterised.
AMH And will stand in relation to Christ as the One who does baptise.
JT Yes. The baptised stand in relation to Him.
AMH Water is dissociation, while baptism with the Spirit links all with Christ.
JT In the application of this passage to christians — the baptising with the Holy Spirit — the body is brought in; the principle in the millennium will be the Spirit pervading all; all will then, in some way, come under the Spirit, and will, therefore, be in accord with Christ. It is an immense thing, bringing in as it does the glory of Christ, and fitting in with John 1 which deals with that. John minimises what he is doing himself. He affords us a model, a key to the gospel in this way; he was one who had great opportunity of exalting himself — none had greater — and yet he refused to take advantage of it. ‘No’, he said, in effect, ‘I am going to make much of Christ; that is my mission’. The test he is subjected to brings that out; in his own estimate he is just a “voice”. ‘As to anything I am doing’, he would say, ‘it is not to be considered; it is what Christ is doing that is of moment’. He is speaking of the insignificance of his work in comparison with what [p. 167] Christ was doing. Of course, his baptism was of great importance in its own place.
MWB He says, “I must decrease” John 3: 30.
JT Yes; it is the consummation of humility; his setting sun goes down with joy, so to speak, in the light of Christ. “He must increase” John 3: 30; so he disappears, not in any disconsolate way, but in joy. He is a remarkable model for us in these last days, and shines, too, in intelligence, as evidenced by his words when he sees Jesus coming to him, “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” John 1: 29.
Rem He had the Holy Spirit from his birth.
JT John the evangelist does not tell us anything about John the baptist’s failure, showing, I think, that he has some special object in view in introducing him as he does.
HFN He represents the beginning of what is spiritual.
JT Yes. He is introduced abruptly as a man sent from God and the Spirit immediately states, “He was not that light” John 1: 8, as if to say, ‘Do not be mistaken, he has come as a witness; but he is not that Light, the true Light has yet to come’. John was partial in his outlook, but the Lord was bringing in what was universal.
JHW John receives direct communication as to the Spirit: “but he who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit” John 1:33.
HFN With reference to baptising with the Holy Spirit; how would you connect, or contrast, it with the anointing of the tabernacle? Are they kindred thoughts?
JT The anointing is for dignity, and brings in what God is. Jesus was anointed; it does not say that He was baptised with the Holy Spirit, but He was anointed. It gives dignity and qualification for service. Being baptised with the Spirit carries the thought of being
merged, so that one’s individuality is lost; it is what is effected through the Holy Spirit; the Spirit is dominant in the body.
PL You get this thought all through the gospel of John. You see it in Mary, Joseph, and Nicodemus. They are not heard of after a certain point. The history in detail of persons is not taken up.
JT So with Lazarus after chapter 12.
PL Is that the thought of merging? You have brethren at the end; their names are not given.
FF In chapter 10 we get “one flock” and “one shepherd”.
JT Yes; the man in chapter 9 receives sight, but he is merged in the flock in chapter 10. Mary Magdalene would be merged in the brethren in chapter 20.
AMH Does it touch reconciliation on Paul’s line?
JT Yes, in Ephesians. I am pleasing to God as in relation to the body of Christ; “that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross” (Ephesians 2: 16).
Christ is the One on whom the Spirit descends and abides; all the pleasure and satisfaction of God are seen there. One gets a sense of the intense delight of God in this Man. First He is seen walking to John, suggesting His death; then the Spirit records that He is walking, without saying where to, “As he walked” John 1: 36. According to Ephesians, we are reconciled as merged in the body.
PL Is the thought in one case His pathway into death, and the other His Person?
JT The former refers to His death; His coming to John suggested that; He was fulfilling all righteousness. Then it says, “And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!” John 1: 36. It is an expression of admiration. What must the walk of that blessed Man have been to God! The two disciples apparently did not notice the beauty of that walk till their attention was called to it, showing perhaps the value of ministry.
[p. 169] There are many things we do not see till our attention is called to them.
JHJ Christ is presented in regard to what He will effect for God, before reference is made to what is effected in us.
JT Yes. This is a wonderful chapter, seven or more different titles being employed to designate the Person of Christ. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is an immense thing in its bearing.
Rem You inferred that the thought was carried on to the world to come. Will you say in what way?
JT You get it referred to in Joel, as quoted in Acts 2 when the Spirit came and sat upon each of them. That is the public side of it, and Joel’s prophecy received a partial fulfilment on that occasion. In Acts 10 it is said that while Peter was speaking the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word, and in recounting the incident, Peter says, “I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John baptised with water, but ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit” Acts 11: 16. The same word “fell” is used in Acts 10: 44 as in Luke 15, where it says the Father fell on the prodigal’s neck; the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word; it involves energetic action, not simply the ordinary thought of the word. The Holy Spirit, so to speak, takes charge of that company. While Peter is speaking the Spirit falls on his hearers, and in the next chapter Peter says, “I remembered the word of the Lord ... ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit” Acts 11: 16.
MWB Peter recognised this action of the Spirit as being similar to what took place on the day of Pentecost. “Even as upon us also at the beginning” Acts 11: 15, he says.
HFN Have you any thought as to why the baptism of the Spirit is linked up with the reception of the gentiles?
JT I think it shows the great interest the Lord had in the gentiles. It is illustrated, as we were saying, in [p. 170] Luke 15: God being so delighted with the returning gentiles, He expressed His delight in this way. While Peter was preaching, God was, we may say, looking into the hearts of the audience, and He recognised what was there. The Holy Spirit would be given in reference to what was within, and now they would be characterised by this; so that 1 Corinthians 12: 13 would have reference to it: “by one Spirit are we all baptised into one body”; hence the body is the vehicle for the moment by which this truth is exemplified.
HFN 1 Corinthians would prepare for the anointing.
JT Yes. It is “the Christ”.
Ques Would baptism of the Spirit be the moral preparation for dignity?
JT It is presented there, “So also is the Christ”; and it brings in the thought of representation here. Dignity is placed on the vessel; it is the anointed vessel (1 Corinthians 12: 12).
AMH Is it Luke’s line rather than John’s? “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me” Luke 4: 18.
JT John speaks of it too, but Luke gives the anointed Vessel (Luke 4).
AMH What is the thought of the anointing in John?
JT Independency of man in the sufficiency of the Holy Spirit. “Ye need not that any man teach you” 1 John 2: 27; it saves you from antichrists. Luke gives the anointed Vessel for service here; God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: He went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him. God stands by what He anoints. In Christ there was no disparity between the Vessel and the anointing. A vessel in whom there is discrepancy occasions sorrow, but the “oil” must be recognised.
MWB God’s vital system is always marked by what is comely.
JT [p. 171] Yes; the moral precedes the official. The Lord was anointed at the age of thirty; He was qualified according to what He was as Man. He came up from the water praying, and as He prayed, the Spirit came upon Him. Then it is said that He “was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, being forty days tempted of the devil” Luke 4: 1,2. The Spirit took the initiative, which we can understand, and it was right that this should take place as regards the Lord, in having to do with Satan. If I have to do with evil, or if you have, it should be because the Holy Spirit leads us to it, otherwise we shall be damaged.
HFN The Lord was driven by the Spirit into the wilderness according to the gospel of Mark.
JT Yes; the energy of the Spirit alone should lead one to take up evil. If I read a bad book or go to the playhouse, etc., it will do me harm, but if the Holy Spirit calls me to deal with evil, that is another matter; very few, however, are called to this.
Ques Does Mark give you the controlling power of the Holy Spirit?
JT The Holy Spirit takes the initiative. Becoming Man, the Lord was subject, and so was “driven” into the wilderness; but after the temptation had ended He returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee; it is His own action now. And then He stands up in the synagogue, turning formally to the text in the prophet Isaiah and reads it, as if to say, ‘This is the text for the moment’. Luke seems to delight to expatiate on the grace of the anointed Vessel, and to record that the people “wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth” Luke 4:22.
MWB Contrasting that with John 1, we find His personal greatness attaching to what He did there.
JT It is His own personal dignity in John; it is what He does — He baptises with the Holy Spirit — He gives living water, etc. As the other gospels present Him, He is subject to the Spirit, and a pattern [p. 172] for us,
but John gives us specially the personal glory of Christ.
JHJ Chapter 4 treats of the Spirit given to us.
JT All is set out there as what the Lord can effect. When we come to need in a man’s soul, which chapter 4 presents, and the Holy Spirit in that connection, the woman being a representative case, you find the Spirit presented on the side of gift; in chapter 7 it is a question of reception. “This spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive”. John 7: 39. Here in chapter 4 it is, “If thou knewest the gift of God” John 4: 10.
MWB What is the difference?
JT Chapter 4 is from the divine side; chapter 7 from the side of reception by the believer.
AMH Is there a measure of state assumed in chapter 7?
JT The fourth chapter simply gives the divine gift, and is connected with the Giver, whereas chapter 7 emphasises the receiver.
AMH “Living bread” precedes this, suggestive of the building up of a constitution.
JT The point in chapter 7 was not that He could give living water, but that any one who believed could receive it. It gives a sense of the greatness of the believer, and indirectly of the greatness of Christ as it is a question of the one who believes on Him.
MWB There is a kind of royalty attached to the believer.
Ques What produces the state that has been referred to?
JT First, there has been new birth (chapter 3); then living water (chapter 4); the power of the Son of God (chapter 5); and finally the Son of man as bread from heaven (chapter 6). There is thus brought about in the believer a state corresponding with chapter 7.
Rem There is a moral order no doubt in the way these things are presented.
JT The greatness of the believer is drawn attention to, not indeed to occupy us with that, but to emphasise the greatness of Christ. ‘Whatever you may think of Me’, the Lord said in effect, ‘even from a believer in Me flow out rivers of living water’.
PL Would the thought of “flow” refer to fertility, while the believing would have reference to Christ glorified?
JT I think that is right. The thought does not go beyond what is here; what is arid here is made fertile with this influence. The Spirit is here in the way of general refreshment. The thought of rivers is a great one; it carries you back to Genesis 2, and suggests influence and refreshment.
PL It is a primary thought.
JT Yes; but the point is one believer in Christ has rivers of living water, “this spake he of the Spirit” John 7: 39, it says. It is the effect of the Holy Spirit coming from Jesus glorified — from heaven.
JHW Christ, according to Isaiah 32: 2, is reproduced here. “As rivers of water in a dry place”.
JT If we saw that, we should think the believer a person of some importance, and if we get a number of such persons we have what is greater still.
HFN Believers’ meetings of that character would be all right!
Rem The thirst in chapter 7 would be of a different character to that in chapter 4.
JT Yes. “Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink” John 7: 37. It is thirst as to greater things I apprehend, and thus different from chapter 4. It supposes an intelligent state in believers.
HFN Chapter 4 would be the result of the administration of chapter 3.
JT Yes; it shows the greatness of the administration. The Father loves the Son and gives everything into His hands, and this is the result, He gives living water.
MWB Is the issue of chapter 4 — the springing up — greater than that of chapter 7?
JT [p. 174] It may be greater for the believer, but morally rivers are greater — greater for man. Chapter 7 includes chapter 4.
MWH I wondered if chapter 4 was priestly, setting forth the holy priesthood, and chapter 7 royal.
JT Yes; perhaps it would bring that in, and what you see in the two chapters is the unlimited character of what is of the Spirit. “God giveth not the Spirit by measure”, John 3: 34 tells us. Then in the next chapter it springs up into everlasting life, so that it touches what is eternal. We should consider the greatness of the believer as indicating the greatness of Christ, and when we think of the aggregate of believers in the heavenly city, we have some sense of the place it will fill in the universe of God.
AMH Does the thirst in chapter 4 arise from lack of good, and in chapter 7 from having tasted good? You want more on that line, so that morally it is an advance.
JT Yes. You get the thought in scripture of hungering and thirsting after righteousness.
MWB Why is the term “living water” used and nor “the Spirit”?
JT A thirsty soul appreciates water; nothing appeals to such an one more than water.
PL Would the fountain of living water meet conditions in the believer, and the “rivers” meet conditions outside?
JT Yes; hence the latter thought is greater. The lower affections are in view there; these are to be actuated; “out of his belly shall flow rivers” John 7: 38, and we read of “bowels of compassion”. It is the taking account of man here in his need and showing mercy.
AMH For that there must be stature.
FF Living water is connected both with God and with Christ in chapter 4, and with Jesus glorified in chapter 7.
JT Yes. “Jesus” suggests what He is as [p. 175] Man, the Head of man, and this is how He meets the boundlessness of men’s need, in men like themselves.
WC This is the antitype of the feast of tabernacles when every need was met, and the widow and fatherless provided for.
JT Yes; it takes the place of that.
Ques Does the position the Lord takes in this chapter (7) have any bearing on our subject? They sought to kill Him. In chapter 4 we find Him coming to the woman and meeting need; in chapter 7 He is rejected, and the Jews’ feast of tabernacles is made prominent.
JT Yes, that is right; so in the next section that we shall consider, He gives the Holy Spirit as Comforter to be with His people, but here it is compassion more.
Rem The feast of tabernacles should have been a time of joy, but they sought to kill Him.
JT It all serves to bring in the grace of the Spirit being given consequent on Jesus being glorified, and it works out in those who receive Him, and thus the christian is a benefit in the world. It is not a question of what we are to one another, but of rivers of water flowing out for the benefit of all.
Rem It is greater than all that preceded it in God’s ways.
JT Or anything that succeeds. It is the greatness of christianity.
JHW We are reminded of the spirit of David, anointed in the midst of his brethren. All got the gain of this.
JT Yes, even Nabal. That illustrates how chapter 7 stands. The believer affords God a vessel in which He can express His compassions to all men, and we are to be here in that light, not local, or national, but on the line of meeting need universally. It is what makes a man morally great.
Rem “All the rivers run into the sea”. Ecclesiastes 1: 7.
JT We look to see the rivers, that is the idea. It is [p. 176] not that they run into the sea, but the influence they exert on the plain — the fructifying effect on their way to the sea.
MWB It is not a lake.
JT No; the idea of a river is fructifying power. The primary suggestion is plural. “A river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads” or “main streams” Genesis 2: 10. God influenced every part of the earth and refreshed every part. Rivers would suggest volume. The bearing of the rivers in Genesis was universal.
AMH “There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God” (Psalm 46: 4).
JHJ The flow of the rivers in John 7 would be more in view of the scene here than in view of the saints.
JT The bearing is general; we want to keep that in view. “Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely”. Revelation 22: 17. The saints are always supposed to be evangelical.