THE SPIRIT IN RELATION TO OUR HEAVENLY POSITION
[p. 190] THE SPIRIT IN RELATION TO OUR HEAVENLY POSITION
JT I suppose all will know that our subject is the Holy Spirit as presented in the gospel of John. It may be noted at the outset that the term used in chapter 20 is simply “Holy Spirit”. The Authorised version gives the article, but it should be omitted, as it is the character of what we receive, more than the Person, that is presented in this chapter, in order that we may be impressed with what is spiritual.
WGB Like the early verses of Romans 8.
JT I suppose so, only what precedes the operation — “He breathed on them” John 20: 22 — has to be taken into account. Christ viewed as having ascended imparts to His brethren His own breath. It is what may be called the highest order of life, for life in Scripture is graded. Certainly, in the material creation it is so (Compare Genesis 1 - Genesis 2).
AMH It is what is enjoyed together: “Receive [the] Holy Spirit” John 20: 22.
JT Yes; it is what the new race, so to speak, enjoys.
T The same as in Genesis 2.
JT Yes; the reference is to that: only here it is a Man breathing into the disciples, and doing so as last Adam. I mentioned the thought as to “Holy Spirit” being characteristic as a help; but in order to understand the bearing of the chapter aright, we must view it as a whole, as the facts narrated in regard to resurrection suggest that the Spirit is occupied with what is of God in the disciples, and not with their unbelief. In the other gospels their unbelief is emphasised, but not here.
MWB This chapter gives the purest heavenly blessing that saints have power to enter upon in association with Christ, the setting being thus in contrast to [p. 191] chapter 14, where it is a question of the support and sustenance of the Comforter down here.
JT The position in that section of the gospel from chapters 13 - 16 flows from the revelation of God, what God is as revealed, and what Man is as seen in Christ. It is His Father in those chapters, or the Father, not our Father; whereas here it is His Father and our Father, His God and our God.
MWB The setting of chapters 13 - 16, generally speaking, corresponds with the idea of God known in covenant relationships.
JT Yes; a people here knowing God, and having learned what man is as suited to God, “and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” John 17: 3. Chapters 13 - 16 give us what furnishes us for the position down here — our equipment; but here (chapter 20) our special spiritual privilege is more in view, so things are presented more formally. “As my Father hath sent me, even so send I you” John 20: 21; the ground is somewhat formal. In apprehending Him as the One who has been sent of the Father, and receiving the Spirit of that Man, we are to represent Him, so it involves what is heavenly.
PL What is the distinction between going to God and ascension?
JT That is worthy of special attention. In the earlier chapters, while the Lord speaks of going to God, He never uses the word “ascend”. It may seem trivial to mention this, but it is not so. “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God” John 20: 17, is of special importance in view of what we have before us, as it involves our greatest blessing and privilege. In these earlier chapters what we have is God revealed in relation to Christ; as already said, it is not as our Father, but as the Father, or Christ’s Father. Revelation is general, not specially for us. We come into the effect of it in believing the gospel, and it is in keeping with this, that the Lord sets forth what believers should be to one another in service. Besides, the bearing of [p. 192] revelation goes on to the future; the Father will be known, and God will be known in the millennium; but now we have this peculiar place in relation to Christ — His brethren.
HFN Would the highest thought in connection with revelation be “that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”? John 17: 3.
JT Yes; revelation is a question of what God is as seen in Christ, and what man is as seen in Christ. The passage you quote (John 17: 3) does not go so far as this chapter.
HFN The climax would be eternal life, but when we come to ascension, family relationships would be developed and this would correspond with Ephesians.
JT Family relationships and privileges come in here (John 20). Ephesians is: “who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” Ephesians 1: 3. There it is not only what the blessings are but where they are. It is wonderful!
Rem Ascension is the platform in Ephesians.
JT “Hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus” Ephesians 2: 6; that word “together” refers to one another; one is not to occupy that place alone, but with the brethren. This chapter is intended to emphasise what is heavenly and spiritual, so it is “Receive [the] Holy Spirit” — that kind of Spirit. We get excess here, and the chapter shows how we are formed to occupy this new and great position. According to the accounts by Mark and Luke the disciples were marked by the most extraordinary state of unbelief as to the Lord’s resurrection, not only in regard of the Scriptures and His own words, but in regard also of the testimony of persons with whom they were well acquainted, and whom they would not have doubted ordinarily, such as Mary Magdalene and the other women: “their words”, we read, “seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not” Luke 24: 11. This suggests what flesh is, even in the presence of the most unprecedented advantages.
[p. 193] When we think of all they had seen in Christ, and the power of resurrection demonstrated in His works, which works they were witnesses of, it seems extraordinary to find them thus unbelieving on the resurrection morning. So we see that the Lord had a great work to accomplish in them, in order to establish in their souls a state of faith, to lead them to apprehend life out of death, and to bring them into spirituality. But the Lord accomplished it, and we find these same men, after the Lord’s sojourn with them for forty days, not only believing, but spiritual and intelligent.
The Lord “showed himself alive” Acts 1: 3 to them, that would be in order to impress them with what was living outside of death, And that was not all, for what we have here is an advance on that; following up His message to them He showed Himself to them in spiritual conditions, coming and standing in their midst, having entered through the closed doors; and now what comes to light is that they are spiritual, as viewed in this connection; there is no evidence of their being disconcerted in any way, whereas in Luke they were. There, we are told, they were terrified and affrighted. My exercise is that we might see how this gospel leads up to heavenly-mindedness and spirituality, and the Holy Spirit is presented here in that relation, to bring this about. The breath of the heavenly Man was to be imparted to them; the thought is the principle of their life — of their existence.
Ques What is the difference between this and Acts 2?
JT In the latter it says the Spirit “sat upon each of them”. It is a public testimony. The people were all together, and there came a sound like as of a rushing mighty wind, and “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit” Acts 2: 2. The point there is public witness. Joel spoke of it prophetically. So Peter says, “he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear” Acts 2: 33. He does not say, ‘which we enjoy’, but “which ye now see and hear”.
[p. 194] But this (John 20) is not to see and hear, though it would result in that, of course; it is a private and intimate transaction, involving the vital principle of their being.
HFN Acts would give more the official position.
JT Yes; here it is what Christ is inherently, what He does Himself as the One who ascends.
HFN As last Adam infusing the breath of life, and thus constituting the disciples heavenly men.
JT Yes; made heavenly in their spirits, in the principle of their being, so that there should be no disparity between them and their position. They are made equal to the position announced in the message.
HFN Is “I will come to you” in view of what you have been saying as to coming into the midst?
JT In this chapter the reference is entirely spiritual. In verse 19 the text, I believe, should read “where the disciples were” (New Trans.). It does not say ‘gathered’; it is not the outward public position. This serves to confirm the thought that it is an entirely spiritual matter — not the assembly as seen in 1 Corinthians.
MWB There seems to be a twofold thought, then, in regard to the assembly. We are gathered together, in divine order, men being distinguished from women and the company taken account of as actually on earth in the wilderness. To that place the Lord comes to us, but in order to conduct us to a spiritual region outside.
JT Yes. The latter is seen here. These people are great in the Lord’s account, and He comes to where they are. His presence is apprehended in a spiritual way. They are not here viewed as “orphans”. In chapter 14 He promises to come in view of their position here in His absence.
MWB Will you explain the distinction between the Lord’s coming to us on earth where He died, and the way He comes in here as apprehended by the spiritual [p. 195] man?
JT He does not speak of the effect of His coming in chapter 14. His coming to them there is an additional provision for the position they were to occupy. In chapter 20 they are His brethren — their greatness is in view. It is the need side in chapter 14.
HFN Would we be justified in linking chapter 14 with the Supper?
JT Yes; here He says first, “Peace be unto you” John 20: 19, then they rejoice, and then Jesus says again, “Peace be unto you” John 20: 21 — as if to confirm and establish them in the first effect of His presence. So we find they have gained something by the apprehension of Christ.
PL His presence in support, according to chapter 14, is promised, but here it is the sovereign movement of His love.
JT In grace the Lord subjected Himself while here to certain limitations that governed creation, but in resurrection He is no longer bound by these; and this chapter is intended to impress us with the region outside of natural laws — a spiritual region — so the doors being shut, He enters. The Spirit presents that side here to show the effect of His ministry.
Rem Would chapter 14 suggest the position of the saints at the Supper, and chapter 20 the spiritual outcome, what is beyond the Supper, but which properly it leads on to?
JT Yes; the Supper is a testimony to the fact that the Lord is not here — it is a remembrance of Him.
MWB These three chapters — 14, 15 and 16 — are necessarily introductory to this one. We could not omit these intermediate chapters.
JT Rightly apprehended they lead to this, but we must see that this is wholly spiritual; we get, too, in the main what is of God in the disciples, so that there is correspondence in them to this movement of Christ, and thus they are equal to the visitation.
Rem Mary is one in the good of chapter 14.
JT She behaves well as a sister. She waits till [p. 196] the two disciples look into the sepulchre, and then she looks in; and in doing so she gets the benefit and sees the two angels, sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet where the body of Jesus had lain. The Person who had lain there was divine, and reverential respect is to be shown to the spot where He lay. Mary says, “they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him” John 20: 13. Having said this, she turns backward, thus turning away from the angels. There seems to be spiritual instinct in this action: the angels were not the ones to lead in spiritual thoughts. In turning, she sees the Lord. It was He who could instruct her in what was spiritual; this He proceeds to do, telling her first not to touch Him, then He entrusts her with the wonderful message, “go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God” John 20: 17. And Mary, without any questioning goes and tells them, and there is no evidence that they disbelieve her.
PL She says, “Rabboni” — my Teacher. Is He to instruct her now in relation to the spiritual?
JT Yes; that is how it stands.
PL Instinctively she seems to anticipate the greatness of the company to which she belongs in the new position; she realises that the dispensation of angels was eclipsed for her.
AMH We want to go on to what is spiritual rather than to manifestations of angelic power.
HFN “God is a Spirit”. John 4: 24.
JT That is a great feature, giving character to this gospel.
Rem The two disciples turned to follow Jesus in chapter 1. Mary turns here.
JT It is a great thing to turn at the right moment.
PL With Mary it is a question of leaving earth in principle and anticipatively. We do not require angelic care in heaven.
JT John in Revelation 1 turned to see the voice.
[p. 197] He had been occupied with what was heavenly, but what he was to take account of had reference to earth; whereas Mary turns the other way to the heavenly.
MWB Comparing this with chapter 16, where we have “For the Father himself loveth you” John 17: 27, there seems a further development of thought as to the Father. Here it is “My Father and your Father” John 20: 17.
JT We want to distinguish between “the Father” — the thought in revelation as expressed in “one God, the Father” 1 Corinthians 8: 6 — and our Father. Paul generally, indeed almost habitually, speaks of our Father: his thought is to bring men in to God in the relationship of sons; so he says, “God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father” Galatians 4: 6.
HFN “Access by one Spirit unto the Father” Ephesians 2: 18; would that be revelation?
JT Yes.
HW Does the thought of family relationship lie behind our having access? Is it built upon it?
JT “That he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross” Ephesians 2: 16 is properly connected with revelation. “Access” has reference to our position down here. The second section of Ephesians 2 treats of what had been brought to pass upon earth through the testimony of God.
HFN What scriptures would you use to build up the thought of family relationship?
JT John 20, Romans 8: 14,15, and Galatians 4: 6. In Romans the Spirit enables us to cry “Abba, Father”; in Galatians He cries “Abba, Father” in our hearts. See also the opening verses of Paul’s epistles. “Grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father”. All these, and other scriptures, enable us to take this ground of relationship with God.
HFN Would “the Father” be the universal thought, and “our Father” more what is private, what is of the family?
JT The revelation of God is general; the declaration of the Father’s name is special. In John 1: 18 it says, “The only-begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”, without saying to whom; but John 17: 26 it says, “I have declared unto them thy name”; that is special. When made to some person or persons the revelation is effective; when it is general, it may not be effective in all.
In verse 21 it says, “Jesus said therefore again to them, Peace be to you: as the Father sent me forth, I also send you” John 20: 21 (New Trans.). The “therefore” seems to connect with the rejoicing of the previous verse; it alludes to the joy; so the Lord says again “Peace”, in this way sealing and confirming it. Then He comes on to their commission. “As the Father sent me forth, I also send you” John 20: 21, and this is followed by the breathing into them, thus indicating His concern that there should be confirmed peace and a right spirit in them as representing Him. This is important with us. The palsied man who was sent to his house would have a sense that he was sent there by Christ, and in consequence he would have a sense of his responsibility to represent Christ there, and the Lord would have us marked by a right spirit as representing Him down here.