HAVING PART IN THE ASSEMBLY INTELLIGENTLY
[p. 151] HAVING PART IN THE ASSEMBLY INTELLIGENTLY
Romans 7:25; Romans 12:2; Ephesians 4:20 - 24; Colossians 3:1 - 4
JT It is to be noted that the word ‘affections’ in Colossians 3:2 is really “mind” — “have your mind on the things that are above”. What therefore is before us is to see how Scripture treats the subject of the mind, with a view to our having part in the assembly intelligently, and Romans would be the basis for assembly service. It is said in the earlier verses of chapter 7 that we are to “serve in newness of spirit”; and then we reach the thought of the mind, and deliverance, and the chapter ends with, “I thank God, through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then [p. 156] I myself with the mind serve God’s law; but with the flesh sin’s law”. The teaching going through ends with this and brings us back to the thought of service in newness of spirit. The believer reaches a point of control, which is an absolute necessity for assembly service, that each is under control, “So then I myself”, the believer is set on his feet, as it were, spiritually and has control. With the mind he serves God’s law; that is the first thought. Then the second is the renewal of the mind in chapter 12, with a view to proving “the good and acceptable and perfect will of God”. The next thought is that the will of God is proved to those found on this line to be “good and acceptable and perfect”. Then, in Ephesians 4, it is the spirit of our minds: “Being renewed in the spirit of your mind”, which is a more refined thought than the renewal of the mind. And, finally, we have the ability to “have your mind on the things that are above”. I believe that by consideration we shall see that all these points enter into our having part in the assembly. And then there is another thought that is more concise than any, namely, that we have “the mind of Christ” (1 Corinthians 2:16). It is all a question, in these passages, of the faculty, not simply that we have a mind about a particular thing, but the faculty God has given us, how we control it, and that it is renewed and set on things above. We are marked off as having the mind of Christ, so that we can serve in assembly service with Him.
FW Is it your thought that Romans 7:24, “O wretched man that I am!”, would be a necessary part of the education of the soul; that unless one has passed this way he cannot intelligently take up the service of God in assembly?
JT I think that is it; the thought of the service of God is introduced at the beginning of the chapter. We have a remarkable suggestion of Christ in verse 4, “So that, my brethren, ye also have been made dead to the law by the body of the Christ, to be to another, who has been raised up from among the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God”, and then, in verse 6, “But now we are clear from the law, having died in that in which we were held, so that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in oldness of letter”. And I believe that the instruction from verse 7 to the end of verse 24 leads us through a process of inward analysis that is unique — there is no other chapter like it — it leads us to a point of naming inward faculties, movements, particularly the mind. “I myself with the mind serve God’s law”; one has reached that point, and I think it is a very great point to reach, of balance, and having an intelligent part, that is, the teaching makes room for the next chapter; where the Spirit of God is operative and we are to discern between the actual movements of the Spirit and mixed fleshly inward movements and promptings.
Ques In the reasoning, he speaks of “the law of my mind”. Is that connected with the spiritual [p. 153] analysis you speak of, that he has learnt to distinguish between what is in his mind, and the principle that wars against it?
JT Quite so. It is a great thing to be able to name things inwardly; “the word of God”, we are told elsewhere, is “penetrating to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12), which is a collateral truth to this; you discern things inwardly and name them, and it makes us definite, as we reach this point in our heart, in the service of God, because we are very prone to be governed by mixed feelings.
FS Would the thought of the mind in chapter 7 have any relation to the will?
JT I suppose there is the will in a proper sense introduced as well as will in an improper sense; the will may be employed legitimately in the sense of determination, so that, “I myself with the mind serve God’s law”, that is your determination. It would include that you have control of the mind, and it is the starting point, I think, of all true balanced service in the assembly or otherwise, because God’s law is bowed to, that is, it is characteristic. It is not simply the law to which we have died, as in the early part of the chapter; it is law in the sense of God’s law. For the idea of God’s law always remains right through to eternity, it is a question of God’s will really.
Ques Does verse 21 fit in with that suggestion? “I find then the law upon me who will to practise what is right, that with me evil is there”.
JT Well, quite so; it is a law. It is remarkable the laws you get in this chapter and the beginning of the next.
Ques “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves ... If we confess our sins” (1 John 1:8,9). Is that inward examination, [p. 154] analysis?
JT Quite so. This chapter leads us through a process of analysis to that end, that we are able to discern inward movements and name them, and in the last verse there is a sense of deliverance or the knowledge of the Deliverer. The whole thing is sequential, I am now clear and I am determined, “I myself with the mind ...”. Chapter 8 confirms that and supports me in that determination. I am speaking of this verse only as suggestive of a basic thought, not to go into the teaching that leads up to it which would detain us too much. It is just the thought that one is clear now; he comes to the determination to serve God’s law with the mind.
Rem He does not connect himself with the flesh.
JT No, with the flesh he serves sin’s law; that would be simply that the flesh is incorrigible; therefore the next chapter is that the flesh is condemned.
Rem If we reach this point, we disconnect ourselves in that way from it.
JT That is, by the analysis you arrive at the repudiation of that, naming it, and the next chapter shows how God has dealt with it so that you can legitimately repudiate it, and you are supported in that thought. Now you are free to go on and the Spirit supports you, and the effect of that seems to be in chapter 12, that there is renewal; there is something going on, an additional process, meaning that the mind is renewed, “Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind”. And then, in Ephesians, we get “the spirit of your mind”, which is a more refined thought.
Ques Would the thought of its being the mind rather than the affections suggest energy in intelligence?
JT Yes, I think it is a legitimate working out of what we are speaking of in Romans 7. I can exercise power over my mind, I set it on things above; there is something going on in the individuality, it is “I
myself”, all through the moral thought of God having come in, His work in us in new birth underlying it all, but my determination is to pursue this line.
FS The question of the mind has a very great bearing in relation to the work of God in us, has it not, God using our minds?
JT Well, I think God has us under His hand when we reach this determination; He has us so as to work in us. You are congenial material now, and the renewal is the suggestion of a change, changing conditions, another line of thought that runs through in regard of us, so that there is complete change contemplated in 2 Corinthians 3, by our beholding the glory and by the Lord the Spirit.
FW “Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind”; if that is the exhortation, how is it brought about?
JT Well, I think it is the Spirit’s work, only that God has got the believer through the teaching of Romans 7, so to say, under His hand as suitable material, and now there is the principle of refining, that the mind is his faculty primarily, but there is the principle of change introduced.
FW All the other governing elements have been discerned and repudiated and the great governing element is recognised, and that leaves the Spirit free for this work.
JT That is what I understand.
Ques Is it the Spirit’s work, that we watch the thing and move according to the way the Spirit is working? What is the part we have in that?
JT The individual is brought into the thing; it is not simply that he is taking on material, but Romans contemplates that the person is living in the sense of being responsive. “I myself” is my self-consciousness that I have found my feet with God in responsibility and I am now declaring my position,
“I myself with the mind serve God’s law”. It is my abstract position yet, but it is determined. I have reached that point, I am consciously responsible to God, but I have reached the point of determination to do one thing, with the mind to serve God’s law. There is room now for chapter 8.
Ques Would our own movements follow on that, what the person is doing?
JT Yes. He has you with Him, you are congenial now, you are not allowing the flesh to dispute His rights in you. The Spirit is only mentioned once, I believe, before this, but chapter 8 is full of the Spirit.
FW Would the end of chapter 7 be like declaring your pedigree, and then, in chapter 12 you are available to take up your place by the standard of your father’s house in the camp in the testimony?
JT Yes, the determination to serve God’s law is a priestly determination.
FW Not so much a military one, you mean?
JT I think it is priestly.
Ques Is your thought that the idea of the renewing of your mind indicates that there is to be a continuance of the spirit of mind in chapter 7, the idea of analysis is coming on, not only in regard of yourself, but in relation to the circumstances surrounding you?
JT Yes, you acquire ability in the analysis, which is always carried through, so you are able to name things. The question is raised as to whether this corresponds with Numbers or with Leviticus. I think it is Leviticus rather than Numbers, for it begins with presenting your body a living sacrifice; that is, I think Leviticus, and it is your intelligent service. You are determined, as to the mind in the end of chapter 7; now you are determined as to the body that that is to be a sacrifice, presented a living [p. 157] sacrifice to God, and that is called intelligent service. The second verse would support and maintain that, that is, the renewal of the mind “that ye may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God”.
Rem So the priest has no mind of his own; it was the mind shown to Moses on the mount; so we have no will of our own but the will of God; we have the mind that is in Christ Jesus.
JT That is what we reach, I think. We can move with Christ intelligently if we have His mind, if we think as He does, for it is a question of the faculty. So in Leviticus it is a priestly attitude of mind, as in chapter 12, and it is the will of God now, the priest is for the will of God, the law having come in in Exodus 20, and God says there (verse 6), there are “thousands of them that love me”, in relation to His law. If we speak of the ten words there as representative of the will of God which is good and acceptable and perfect, the next chapter, that is chapter 21, brings in the slave, that he loves his master, he loves his wife, he loves his children. He is the first one who says “I love” in the Scriptures, and you can understand that is the man to be the priest, one who will love his master, who will love his wife, who will love his children. He is thinking only now of serving his master, and he becomes a bondman for ever because he loves. And all must now come under the thought of the will of God.
FS Would the import of all this be seen in Aaron having a plate of gold on his forehead engraved, “Holiness to Jehovah”?
JT We shall work up to that, for the allusion is, I think, to intelligence; it is a dignified thought. It will be, of course, supremely in Christ, but we are to be brought to it because we have the mind of Christ; it is in that that the priesthood lies, for the priest’s lips should keep knowledge and the law is in his [p. 158] mouth. He begins by submitting to God’s will, his lips keep knowledge; it is now in the dignity of the gold, “Holiness to Jehovah”.
FS Would the setting of it in Corinthians, where we have the mind of Christ, bring in the sphere where that mind can be expressed; whereas Romans is more the disentanglement?
JT That is good; and we have the mind of Christ; I think we have the priesthood from that point of view, “Who has known the mind of the Lord, who shall instruct him?”. That is to shut out the world’s wise men; but then the apostle says, “We have the mind of Christ”, we are different from those, we can discern things.
Ques Would that be the thought of the ‘present age’? It may read, ‘Be not conformed to the present age’.
JT Well, it is the world in that way. It would be, I suppose, the world in its wisdom, that which would appeal to the mind. One could understand how the Romans would take that, they would say, ‘We have been going on with this and that, what is this — the renewing of our minds?’ How would they take it? They would compare the injunction with what they were accustomed to in the Empire, that is where the working of man’s mind is seen; but we are to be transformed from that, and it is by the renewing of our minds.
FS Would the appreciation of the ministry that is given us and going on with it, feeding the mind with it, have that end practically in view?
JT That is another thing that enters into this, Peter’s line, to “desire earnestly the pure mental milk of the word, that by it ye may grow up to salvation” (1 Peter 2:2). I think that is to sustain us, the pure mental milk, the best feature, the word of God that feeds our minds.
FW “This is my body, which is for you” (1 Corinthians 11:24). Are Exodus 21, the ear bored through, and this chapter 12 that we are looking at connected?
JT Well, you can tell us more about that.
FW The wife and the family would look upon the husband and father, feeling that his body had been given for them so as to be able to serve them and serve his master for ever. I was wondering whether we would view the loaf in that way, “This is my body, which is for you”, and in Romans 12 we are on that line in view of the service of God.
JT Yes, the ear of the slave being pierced alludes to his intelligence, so it is really the idea of priesthood, but then it is not love alone, it is intelligence, hence, “I will pray with the spirit, but I will pray also with the understanding; I will sing with the spirit, but I will sing also with the understanding” (1 Corinthians 14:15). It is what is so needed in our assembly service, to have our minds properly balanced.
Ques Would that link on with the presenting of the body?
JT I think we can see how it all works out from what we are speaking of. The slave is typical of the Lord in taking a body; He says, “But thou hast prepared me a body” (Hebrews 10:5); in Psalm 40:6 it is literally, “ears hast thou prepared me”; ears suggest intelligence; the Lord, in becoming man, was infinitely intelligent as to the mind of God, and we are to be brought into that. So that the wife and children of the bondman would see marks of his devotedness; he went to the doorpost and had his ear pierced and any time they looked at that they would understand it was all for them in love. We have One whose intelligence is seen, and I think that leads on to chapter 12, a living sacrifice; and then immediately we have the thought of the mind, the body is to be controlled aright by the mind.
[p. 160] Ques De we at the end of chapter 7, arrive at two unalterable facts, “I myself with the mind serve God’s law; but with the flesh sin’s law”? Those two must go on together.
JT That is so, and the latter is repudiated, as we were saying. That is deliverance; the next chapter shows how we can keep that under control.
Rem So in chapter 12 it is a question of choosing which shall have the predominance, not being “conformed to this world”, but “transformed by the renewing of your mind”.
JT Quite so. Sacrifice lies in the body; you always have that to present, but the mind knows what suits God; the renewal of the mind brings you into accord with God and what suits God, so that the body is set in that way; in it I “prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God”. When the Lord became man, He says, according to the psalm and to Hebrews 10, “Lo, I come ... to do, O God, thy will”. “To do thy good pleasure, my God, is my delight”, He says. He knew what He was doing and how pleasing it was to God that He took that form as over against bulls and goats; they did not know, but He knew. The christian is brought into this; he knows what he is doing. So, as brought into the assembly, I know what I am doing and I know what pleases God.
It is remarkable the course of instruction you get in Exodus 21, Exodus 22 and Exodus 23, and then in chapter 24 Moses has a word from Jehovah as to going up. But then Moses, a true priest himself, raises the question of the state of the people, Are they like that slave? Are they delighting in the will of God? Are they resolved, as loving God, to be entirely subject? They say they are: “All the words that Jehovah has said will we do!”. That really is the ground of the covenant, so that now God has His people, at least in [p. 161] figure, doing His will. Romans works that out in us, we are doing His will, and on that ground we go up.
Ques Does the renewing of the mind suggest increased intelligence in these things?
JT Well, it does, and it is more quality, I think. Renewing of the mind does increase, of course, because through it we prove what is “the good and acceptable and perfect will of God”, but it is quality, our mind. The renewal of the spirit of the mind is further quality, I think, and the final thought would be, “We have the mind of Christ”; there is definite correspondence in that faculty between us and Christ.
Rem In the Hebrew servant the mind and the heart go together.
JT Yes. First the heart, that he loves, and secondly, the ear is devoted to the service of God. Love is at the bottom of all.
FS Would the ear being bored indicate he has the intelligence to discern and to repudiate everything not in accord with the will of God?
JT That is how it works out. “Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good” (Isaiah 7:15). The butter and honey must allude to some power of discernment.
Ques Is the Hebrew servant the great model for all service in the house of God?
JT That is the very thought; when God speaks of the thousands of those who love Him, we have a concrete case. The servant served his master for so many years and might have gone out free, but he resolves not to, because he loves. Then you have love in volume in chapter 24; showing that you have the full attestation of love in death, and in the light of that you go up.
FW What about the chapters in Exodus where you have the breakdown with the golden calf? Is that in any way connected with the renewing you [p. 162] were speaking of, that we may be reminded that the flesh profits nothing in the service of God?
JT I suppose chapter 25 is based on all we have been saying, God can now reckon on the different materials He needs for His dwelling, the fruit of His own work in His people in the variety of it, and you get that going up, and then the breakdown which is to bring out, I suppose, as you say, that in spite of their great profession in chapter 24, the flesh is there, and the flesh serves the law of sin, even in those wonderful circumstances.
Ques Is the golden calf the result of the mind working when they lost sight of Christ?
JT Quite so; “for this Moses, the man that has brought us up out of the land of Egypt, — we do not know what is become of him!”. It was an attitude of indifference; they did not care.
Ques So is the thought of being conformed to this world seen in the calf?
JT Quite so.
Rem It is love begotten in our hearts by the sacrifice of Christ that leads us to present our bodies a living sacrifice.
JT Quite so, it is love at the bottom, so that the types help us greatly. The breakdown at Horeb only brought out Christ in type in Moses saying he would be blotted out for the people. Now God honours Moses and he becomes greater and greater in the eyes of the people, and then the work proceeds. The glory shines in Moses’ face, and then Bezaleel begins the work. The people are called to Moses in chapter 35, and he tells them what is needed for the tabernacle, and they depart from him; they do not make a golden calf again. It is what you do when the brethren are not looking at you, so to speak. What do you do then? Well, it says they departed from Moses and brought back all he needed and the book then proceeds to show how the parts [p. 163] of the tabernacle were made, and they are all brought to Moses and set up, and they are all in function, anointed with oil, and the glory enters. So the service of God is now set up, there is a residence for the glory.
FW What about the tables of the covenant being placed in the ark; is that connected with this principle of renewal? Are we reminded that another order of man is the only line on which the service can be taken up?
JT I suppose that is the thought. Moses is told to make an ark of wood, according to Deuteronomy, and he goes up, and then, when he comes down, his face is shining. I suppose the ark of wood would mean Christ in His humanity, we advance in the knowledge of that; now you have a Man for God’s pleasure, and that is where the glory appears, in His face.
FW When they begin to move, it is not with the ark of the covenant, as in chapter 25, but with that which will make an atmosphere for the covenant to come into. Is that suggestive, that we need an atmosphere locally if the Lord is to come in, and that is in our moving spiritually?
JT I think that is how the thing stands. What is stressed is the idea of obedience, that we are entirely subject to the will of God, and it links on with the chapter in Romans, our bodies are presented and our minds renewed, which means that there is a living state of things now with God. There is a measure of refining, but Ephesians takes us further, in the spirit of our minds being renewed.
FS Does, “Ye have not thus learnt the Christ”, contemplate that the objective is in Christ?
JT Quite so. It is a question of early days in Exodus, of love and subjection admitting of formation, so that each item passes the judgment of Moses, and God is pleased with each item. And then all is [p. 164] anointed, the priests with it and then each servant is in his place, and the glory comes in; that is the idea.
Ques Can you help us in regard to this material that is being brought?
JT Well, if you look through Exodus you will find that, after the glory shines in Moses in chapter 34, and the people are afraid of him, he influenced them, and it turned them round toward him: “We all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed” (2 Corinthians 3:18), it is a sort of allusion to that, meaning that a young christian is not afraid of Christ and the glory; it is attractive. Then in chapter 35 we have the sabbath; we must learn to lie fallow and absorb heavenly thoughts. It is not only your mind now, but your whole body is subservient and restful, so that you have the thoughts of God. Then Moses tells them what he needs and they depart from him, as much as to say, ‘We will do it for ourselves; we are trustworthy now’, and they come back with all that is needed, men and women, and then the work begins, and it is all brought to Moses, and then it is anointed and set up, and the glory appears. It all works out from the love of the bondman, the bondman spirit.
Ques Do we see the doctrine of Romans worked out in Exodus in detail in a typical way?
JT Yes, Exodus is the amplification of Romans: it opens it up for us. When you are presented, you are a priest; that is Leviticus.
FS Just to touch on Colossians, would that help us in a practical way, the thing working out subjectively; our minds are under control and we are preserved from being diverted in our thoughts?
JT That is the way, as we were saying. John says, “I became in the Spirit” (Revelation 1:10); that is the power, or capability, of change; that must include the elimination of all contrary elements, and that is where the mind acts, I think; it eliminates all contrary elements,
“[p. 165] The doors shut where the disciples were” (John 20:19).
FS The Lord says, “For where thy treasure is, there will be also thy heart” (Matthew 6:21). Where affections are really set on Christ where He is there is no difficulty about our mind being engaged with Him and being under control.
JT Yes, the point is you have control of the mind, and that is wherein lies the capability of change. “I became in the Spirit”, John says; so that we change over to be alongside of Christ with His mind, with His feelings and sensibilities. That is really what is in mind in the scripture, this process of change, so that we are able to stand up alongside the Lord, as it were, having His mind and seeing what He is going on with; we are with Him; He knows He has us and we know what to do. We do not give out unsuitable hymns and we do not say unsuitable things, things that would be right in other settings, but are not right in these settings. Priests know what to do; so the exhortation, “Have your mind on the things that are above” is just to suggest that you have power to do that.
Rem I thought the remark as to the mind being the servant of our affections was very good. “Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not pollute himself” (Daniel 1:8).
JT Yes, very good. You get many different appellations for the Spirit in this chapter in Romans, “the Spirit”, “the Spirit of life”, “the Spirit of God”, “a spirit of adoption”, and so forth. The Spirit witnesses with our spirits; there is such complete analysis you can discern that the spirit of God is witnessing with your spirit.
Rem Intelligence seems to have a very important place in connection with the service of God.
J,.T. It has. It is the want of it that often spoils our meetings; not so much the want of affection,
[p. 166] but of intelligence, of control, of knowing what to do.
Ques Why did you take Ephesians before Colossians?
JT To work out the link. We have the renewal of the mind, and then the renewal of the spirit of the mind suggesting increased refinement, then the power to have it on things above, and then, finally, the priestly thought of the mind of Christ; we are able to think as He does, not simply that I know His mind in a particular thing. It is remarkable that His faculty is applied to us. The Lord says, “He wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the instructed” (Isaiah 50:4). He also says, “That I should know how to succour by a word him that is weary”; it is the intelligence; and so “Ears hast thou prepared me” (Psalm 40:6) is translated in the New Testament, “Thou hast prepared me a body” (Hebrews 10:5), intelligence in humanity, a Man knowing the mind of God, as over against “bulls and goats”.
TS The princes of this world “crucified the Lord of glory” (1 Corinthians 2:8)
Pages 167 to 456, ‘The Service of the Comforter’ and Other Ministry, 1937 - 1938, (Volume 207).