CHRIST IN THE BELIEVER (1)
[p. 240] CHRIST IN THE BELIEVER (1)
JT “But if Christ be in you, the body is dead on account of sin, but the Spirit life on account of righteousness”. I was thinking of that verse, and during these meetings we might look into John’s gospel, and might see the illustration of the truth “Christ ... in you”. It is proposed at this time that we might consider John the baptist in John’s gospel as the first example. These verses would show that Christ was in him sacrificially, he apprehending Christ in a sacrificial way as “the Lamb of God”. Then we see in the woman of Samaria in chapter 4 another example of Christ in a believer. She recognises Him as a prophet, and speaks to others of Him as the Christ. “Is not he the Christ?” So that He is in her as the Christ, the One who does things for God. In Peter in chapter 6 we have his confession, Christ is the One who has words of eternal life, “We have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God”; that is Christ is seen in this gospel as the Minister of the sanctuary, the Holy One of God, as Aaron was to Jehovah. Then in chapter 9 another example is the man spoken of as the blind man, whose eyes were opened. He sees in Him “the Son of God”, and finally in Mary of Bethany is seen another example, and I believe the Lord will open up all these instances for our profit. This morning the thought is of John the baptist in this gospel.
HEF Your thought is that what would work out from these different illustrations would be progressive.
JT It is usually so that any line of thought in Scripture, in the gospels or epistles, is progressive, or constructive, and I think we shall find this will be so here. Obviously the first great [p. 241] thought is the sacrificial thought. Christ in us sacrificially, that is the foundation.
SWR By progressive do you mean the order in which we understand these things?
JT Quite so, and the order in which they are set in our souls in a constructive way. This gospel has the constructive thought in a collective sense, and what we are speaking of helps on this line. In chapter 12 we have, “While ye have the light, believe in the light, that ye may become sons of light”. That is the result in mind, sons of light, so that the point would be the same on this line of thought. Christ is to be developed in us fully; He is to be in the believer.
JR Would you say a little as to Christ sacrificially occupying our attention? It would bring before us Christ in His love towards us.
JT Well, that is what is in mind. John the baptist in speaking of Him earlier speaks of Him as the One who is preferred before him. He lays the basis in his earlier remarks for this great thought. Being the Lamb of God He was greater than John the baptist; John the baptist could not atone for his sins himself, but needed Another. That is where the testimony of John begins. He bears witness of Him: “This was he of whom I said, He that comes after me is preferred before me, for he was before me” (chapter 1:15). That is the first testimony he bears in this gospel. It can be seen that this lays the basis for this sacrificial thought in Another, not in himself. Then when the Jews sent from Jerusalem to ask him who he was, they wanted to know him, “And he acknowledged and denied not, and acknowledged, I am not the Christ. And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he says, I am not. Art thou the prophet? And he answered, No. They said therefore to him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to those who sent us. What sayest [p. 242] thou of thyself? He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the path of the Lord, as said Esaias the prophet. And they were sent from among the Pharisees. And they asked him and said to him, Why baptisest thou then, if thou art not the Christ, nor Elias, nor the prophet? John answered them saying, I baptise with water. In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know, he who comes after me, the thong of whose sandal I am not worthy to unloose” (verses 20 - 27).
So that he lays the basis for the sacrificial thought in his elimination of himself. As we eliminate ourselves, we make way for Christ’s vicarious sacrifice. He is the only One qualified for that. Self-elimination is an important matter in arriving at the Christ in any way. I am never to be a rival of Christ in any way.
OL Will you say a little more as to the sacrificial thought as applying to us in our own pathway today?
JT Well, I think what we are saying about the elimination side ought to be noted. There must be total elimination of self for us to rightly apprehend the sacrificial thought in Christ.
HS After this we get two disciples leaving John and following Jesus.
JT Just so. It was the Lamb of God they were directed to, to His walking, and others move from John’s testimony. His first testimony here does not move anybody; it is more to bring out the principle of elimination in himself. Now the next day, that is verse 35, he is occupied with the Lord as walking. He calls Him “the Lamb of God”, saying no more, and then others move towards Him. This second calling of attention to Christ as the Lamb of God is a sacrificial thought, which is effecting more than the doctrine, which is implied in the first reference. Very often in the laying down of doctrine we are not so effective as when we are feeling things, full of the [p. 243] things ourselves, and enjoying them. The second statement calling attention to Christ sacrificially (verse 36) has more feeling. John is not only eliminated in his own thoughts, but has stopped doing things; he is standing, he has finished as it were. He sees Another has come on the scene, and he has finished at that point.
OL What do you mean by ‘vicariously’, as applying to what we have been saying?
JT We lay down our lives for the brethren, but that is not vicarious. It will never secure remission, or anything for God. Only Christ can act in that sense. He laid down His life for us vicariously. We may lay down our lives too, but as expressive of love.
HF Is that in line with propitiation?
JT That is right. It is Christ’s propitiatory sacrifice. That is the position in Romans 3. It is the mercy-seat really; He only can be that.
JR “None can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him” (Psalm 49:7).
HF John the baptist is superseded by Christ.
JT Yes, he eliminates himself. He takes himself out of the way of Christ, and this is a process that must continue with us, because we are so much in the way of Christ.
Rem So that John the baptist says, “He must increase, but I must decrease” (John 3:30).
JT That is the idea. That is what you get in the third chapter. This gospel does not give any of John’s failures, the only one you might say, that does not. Matthew and Luke mention them, but John the evangelist does not tell us of them. He selects John the baptist as a model for us. The Spirit of God selects here one who eliminates himself so that Christ might have all the place.
HS So he was in the good of Romans 8:10.
JT That is what I was thinking. He is an illustration of one in whom Christ is sacrificially apprehended.
[p. 244] Hence he calls Him the Lamb of God. Twice he speaks of Him in that way.
Rem If we rightly apprehend Christ sacrificially, it puts us out altogether.
JT That is, you see that God has dealt with me. After all, my elimination of myself is not enough. God has also to do it. It has to be understood that God has dealt with me for His own glory in order to bring me in on another line.
HF Does John the evangelist take account of the work of God in the believer?
JT He does; he does that particularly. He tells us we must be born anew. The Spirit of God takes John the baptist as a model for christians. He, John the baptist, comes down from another dispensation, and God, according to John the evangelist, brings in another — christianity. John the baptist merges into christianity in chapter 3, showing what a man he was. We are not told here that he was the greatest of those born of women, but he is born of God. No one would speak of Jesus in this way unless he was born anew. In fact, as an unborn babe he was affected by the thought of Jesus. So he is a unique sort of person, and we do well to pay attention to him. Here the Spirit of God gives us a picture; the Holy Spirit only can present it in this way. He presents it for faith, not merely facts. The Scriptures are not mere facts: they are designed so as to affect us rightly.
OMR That ought to help us to take up the thought of elimination, to dwell on the burial of Christ. Christ died and was buried.
JT Well, that is a good thing to bring up, but it is a little early. It is early to bring it in, but it is an important thing to have in mind; the burial of Christ is a sacrificial thought, and that is one of the most important things to bear in mind. There is no thought whatever of the burial of Christ apart from [p. 245] the sacrificial work. It is complete elimination from view of the man whom He died to put away. It is the sacrificial thought, to deal entirely with the sinner, putting him out of sight altogether. That is not his own elimination of self, but God’s elimination of him. Romans shows how he comes to this. Baptism is the figure of it. Another does it for you, but the believer accepts it as fulfilling righteousness.
RHK John was “sent from God”. In the passage read it says he “knew him not”. What part of John’s history does that refer to?
JT It would refer to the time of his showing to Israel. Luke gives us the account of John’s birth and early life, and his coming into service. He was in the wilderness (in the deserts really, for it is a plural thought) “until the day of his showing to Israel”. He disclaims knowing Christ earlier, although related to Him as of the flesh. He does not speak of Him on that line, he speaks of Him as known spiritually, and that is the only true way to speak of Him. John apprehended Him spiritually. He tells us what happens here. “I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God”. That title in John’s gospel indicates a divine Person.
HS Would you say he gets a revelation in connection with that? He speaks of Him as the Son of God.
JT He tells us what happened here. What is to be noted first is what we are saying, the sacrificial thought, so it says, “On the morrow he sees Jesus coming to him, and says, Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”. That is what he is engaged with. Whatever he might have said to you at that time, the Spirit of God gives you this picture to bring out the fact that Christ was in him in a sacrificial way. That is what he speaks about, and I think what is said of him earlier shows he is prepared divinely to speak of Christ in that way. He [p. 246] is able to do that because he has eliminated himself. He does not becloud what he has to speak of; he is out of the way himself. If I stand up to preach I must be sure I am out of the way. It is Christ I am thinking of. The first thing is to bring forward the sacrificial side because that is what is effective.
HS That was true of the apostle Paul, “No longer live, I, but Christ lives in me” (Galatians 2:20).
JT Quite so. I am crucified with Him. He accepted that. This is a very important matter as to ministry, because we, perhaps all more or less, stand in the way of Christ, we becloud what we are speaking of because we do not eliminate ourselves.
LAMR John put that out as moved by the Spirit.
JT He no doubt was helped in what he was saying by the Spirit. The point before us now, especially those who minister, is to be sure each has eliminated himself. Otherwise he will bring in his own thoughts, or by not even saying anything, he may have himself in mind. That is why I think we get the previous paragraph to bring out how John is tested by this deputation from Jerusalem. How he stands his ground and refuses to allow himself to be brought into the picture. What a striking testimony that is! In it he makes room for this sacrificial testimony.
HS On account of being a man like that John no doubt was beheaded.
JT Quite so. Satan will see to it that that man will suffer.
LAMR Referring to the walk of the Lord playing a very striking part in bringing about the effect we have been speaking about in John the baptist, it says in verse 36, “And, looking at Jesus as he walked, he says, Behold the Lamb of God”.
JT That is the second testimony, but the first is, “He sees Jesus coming to him”. Well, you say, what [p. 247] does that mean? John is eliminated from his own view, but he is appointed by God in ministry: he is baptising, and Jesus is coming to him. That is the sacrificial thought: figuratively He is going into death, and that is what John sees. He is able to name what he sees, like Adam. Adam looked on the creatures and named them, and here the Son of God is coming to John, one who is exercising this ministry of baptism, which is a figure of death.
HF John the baptist is a model servant, is he not?
JT Well, that is what we are trying to get at. The servant eliminates himself from his own mind and makes full place for Christ in him: “Christ lives in me”. He would not know Romans 8, yet that is what it is here, Christ in that man, not himself. It is no longer John the baptist, however great he was, and he is spoken of as “among them that are born of women a greater prophet is no one than John the Baptist” (Luke 7:28). He would not say that at all about himself; Jesus said that of him, but Christ is everything to John.
Rem While he had not the doctrine, the thing taught marked him.
JT That is the thought. We see in him an example of Christ in a person, and not himself. The body is dead, the natural proclivities all dead, not exercised, not asserting themselves at all.
Rem In Acts 8 we find Philip preached to the eunuch; he preached unto him Jesus, and the place where the eunuch was reading was Isaiah, “He was led as a sheep to slaughter, and as a lamb is dumb in presence of him that shears him, thus he opens not his mouth”. Later it says, “When they came up out of the water the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, and the eunuch saw him no longer”, so that he might not be occupied with Philip.
OMR Philip was not to be unduly in his mind. He was taken away.
JT Quite so. He says, “Behold water; what hinders my being baptised?”. That is the idea, he is disappearing and Christ is to be everything. Philip had been speaking to him about Jesus from Isaiah 53, “His life is taken from the earth”. So he says, “Behold water; what hinders my being baptised?”. Philip went down into the water with him, so that he is removed. That is the principle; henceforth Christ is to be in him.
OMR I thought of that in connection with the sacrificial thought that you have been pressing, the Lamb of God as we get it in Isaiah 53.
JT Quite so; it was the sacrificial thought. Philip preached unto him Jesus, including His death.
OMR We get the removal of the eunuch, and then the removal of Philip.
JT Philip is taken away; the eunuch does not ask him to go with him to be his chaplain! It is the eunuch and Christ, Christ and the eunuch we may say. That is the idea.
OL Would the spirit of that with us help us in any local difficulties we may have, in regard to the settling of them?
JT It does. It would help us on these lines to see how, if John were in the care meeting and a difficult matter came up, he would not be occupied with how the matter affected him, he would only be thinking of Christ. That is really the way to get adjustment, making everything of Christ; in the new man “Christ is everything, and in all”. It is Christ only in the new man. That is what we are aiming at, to see how we arrive at it. If we are thinking only of Christ then the adjustment will be simple. It is personal consideration that keeps these difficulties up. We were reading about the house of Saul and the house of David. These houses would imply personal [p. 249] considerations.
OL Had the apostle Paul that in mind when he says, “For me to live is Christ, and to die gain”? He speaks more of dying as accepting death in the spirit of it, so that he might get the present gain.
JT Quite so. To die is gain, literal death; but in Galatians 2:20 as already quoted, it is, “I am crucified with Christ”, as much as to say, ‘I am so; according to my own mind, I accept crucifixion as the only righteous way of dealing with me, so that it is no longer I but Christ’. “But in that I now live in flesh, I live by faith, the faith of the Son of God, who has loved me and given himself for me”.
SWR Can we connect the thought of the laying of the hands on the head of the victim in sacrifice, with this thought of elimination, identifying ourselves with it?
JT That is right. You are being dealt with in completion. That is the thought. How beautifully John speaks when he sees Jesus coming to him! Jesus understood well what that meant when He came to John to be baptised, and John knew it too. He says, “Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”. He is going to die sacrificially. Others are coming to John to be baptised, but there was none other like this One. A different kind of movement altogether, sacrificially going into death to take away the sin of the world.
GRM In speaking of the difficulties that may come amongst us, would you say a word about the place that Jesus has; such a Person entering into the position? When the sons of the prophets might have been poisoned, Elisha says, “Bring meal”.
JT Yes. Jesus would be the solution to the difficulty. It is a question of Christ’s humanity, you mean.
GRM That settled the difficulty.
JT Quite, as we bring Him in, the poison is nullified.
[p. 250] Rem That should settle every difficulty, the Spirit of Christ, that lowly spirit.
JT Now, looking at what is said here: He “takes away the sin of the world”, and then, “He it is of whom I said, A man comes after me who takes a place before me, because he was before me; and I knew him not; but that he might be manifested to Israel, therefore have I come baptising with water”. The whole matter is made clear by what John says. It brings in earlier experience, so that the whole position is clear; that is, Christ’s position as coming to be baptised is not obscured, not darkened, by anything John did or said. That is a great matter in ministry, having to do with the things of God, everything must be clear. As long as I am not eliminated in the matter, it is not clear, it is beclouded in that sense.
Ques Would John’s dwelling in the wilderness, his clothing, and what he ate, help him to come to this point?
JT No doubt; that is what you get in other gospels. “He was in the deserts”, meaning where the flesh was constantly being set aside, “until the day of his shewing to Israel” (Luke 1:80). It is no good showing to Israel a man who has not judged himself. Now he is shown to Israel. We do not get that here, but we get it elsewhere. In what he says he is a qualified minister because he makes room for Christ. He does not becloud the issue at all, it is perfectly clear; so he says, “Who takes a place before me, because he was before me”. He is the One, that is the idea.
SWR I suppose that applies to all men. We know no man after the flesh.
JT That is the way. Paul reaches that doctrinally, and experimentally too.
Rem Is that where [p. 251] glory comes in?
JT Quite so.
HEF Would it help at this point to say something about the place the Spirit has in this? Does it come into this section?
JT John is making the issue clear. That is the point in mind. “He it is of whom I said”. He said Jesus was the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. In saying that, he is qualified; he is not beclouding what he says, not bringing himself into it. ‘This is the one I spoke of before, He was before me’. That is an assertion of His deity. John the baptist was born before Jesus as a matter of fact. He is asserting His deity here. “He was before me; and I knew him not; but that he might be manifested to Israel, therefore have I come baptising with water. And John bore witness, saying, I beheld the Spirit descending as a dove from heaven, and it abode upon him. And I knew him not; but he who sent me to baptise with water, he said to me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit. And I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God”. It is not simply that I have seen and bear witness, but that the Spirit has done so also in coming upon Him.
HS John is growing stronger and stronger.
JT And all the time he is smaller and smaller in his own mind. Chapter 3 brings that out.
HEF You said something just now about the Son of God having a special meaning in John’s gospel. What do you mean?
JT Well, it is a divine Person. You get it right through in that way. In chapter 9 the blind man is coming to it. He believes. It is not our coming into it in John’s gospel until chapter 20. It is more one standing in dignity and testimony. These remarks which John makes before he comes to the Spirit are to be noted. It is how he reaches this point, as it [p. 252] were, qualified to be such a witness of this on God’s behalf.
BJ Jesus referring to John says, “He who is a little one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he” (Matthew 11:11).
JT That is in another gospel, the synoptic gospels. It is to bring out the dispensation. He was not of this dispensation, that is what is meant. “He who is a little one in the kingdom of the heavens” alludes to christianity.
RK Would the Lamb of God have reference more to what is sacrificial, and the Son of God more to His Person?
JT Yes. The Son of God is inaugurating a new order of things. He removes something, takes away the sin of the world, that is the elimination of sin, taking it out of the way. The minister, according to what he is in the flesh, is taken out of the way, as we have said. Now this great thing that is so dishonouring to God in the universe has to be eliminated. Then the Son of God baptising with the Spirit is another thought.
Rem That is more for the testimony.
JT That is right. It would bring in what is positive, so that it works out in 1 Corinthians, we “being many, are one body” (chapter 12:12), bringing in what is for God here.
HEF Do I understand you to mean that the more wholeheartedly we accept the thought of elimination the more it helps us to enter into the glory of what is coming before us?
JT That is the thought. This gospel is so full of the glory of Christ. The first miracle in this gospel is to manifest forth His glory. This whole gospel is the opening up of glory for us. The more I retain myself, the more the glory of God is beclouded, hidden from view.
[p. 253] Ques Would you say this is the initial exercise of our conversion really? Our conversion starts here?
JT Well, it does. It is what you might call foundational truth. You must begin here. The elimination in my own mind of myself is not enough. I want myself judicially removed according to God’s mind. Romans opens up what is judicial according to God’s mind.
SWR It is a source of joy to the believer, “He must increase, but I must decrease”.
Rem “Whom, having not seen, ye love; on whom though not now looking, but believing, ye exult with joy unspeakable and filled with the glory” (1 Peter 1:8).
JT Quite so. I am put out of sight. As long as I retain myself I am beclouding everything.
Verse 35 means John’s testimony is finished. Another Man is superseding him. The second testimony here was on another day, “On the morrow”. John is standing now. He is coming in, we may say, on our territory, assembly territory, and he is able to occupy us with Christ. We can hardly tell where John’s remarks finish in chapter 3. It is merging into christianity. “On the morrow, there stood John and two of his disciples. And, looking at Jesus as he walked, he says, Behold the Lamb of God”. He is standing now, which means that his testimony is finished. This great Person has come on the scene. He is baptising with the Holy Spirit. John could not do that; it requires the Son of God to do that. John was baptising with water. We are baptised by the Spirit into one body. Now John has come on to that territory, and it culminates, according to the verses following, in Peter. That is-an assembly matter. It is to honour John that his testimony is great enough for that.
SWR In regard to the believer’s body being dead, does it refer to a man becoming silent in regard to [p. 254] himself?
JT That is how it should work out in us, on account of sin. It is well worth while to make that body dead, “but if Christ be in you”, you have accepted all the truth relative to the death of Christ. You see how God has dealt with you judicially, and I have dealt with myself. The body is no longer mine naturally to do my will, which is always sin. The Spirit is life in you, “on account of righteousness”. It is a question of righteousness. The Spirit brings in the power of righteousness.
JR We accept this truth in regard to being baptised by the Holy Spirit. Do we merge by one Spirit into one body?
JT We can introduce that here, I think. The christian is baptised by the Holy Spirit, in the power of one Spirit, into one body. See how christianity is the first great thought in the accomplishment of divine counsels. The idea of baptism by the Spirit is that we merge together into one body. The Son of God, that is the thought here.
BB It is said that if the truth is rightly known, one would not ask to what body you belong, they would know that you are a believer in Christ.
JT Yes, quite. Romans 12 shows we “are one body in Christ” (not of Christ). That is your status. You do not belong to freemasons or anything like that. According to 1 Corinthians we are baptised by the power of the Spirit into one body. It is a positive thing.
Rem Why is it that the thought of the sin of the world is left out here? Is it to call attention to the Person in this second section?
JT You mean the second section is calling attention to the Person already mentioned. He is in John’s mind. This Person coming to him is the One who deals with sin. The second thing is that he is standing with his disciples, as much as to say, ‘My work is done’. This glorious Person is in movement.
[p. 255] It is His grace in movement, and John’s disciples are affected by what he says. He is speaking, not doctrinally or officially, but feelingly. That is a great matter in service; there is to be feeling about the thing. “Looking at Jesus as he walked, he says, Behold the Lamb of God. And the two disciples heard him speaking, and followed Jesus. But Jesus having turned, and seeing them following, says to them, What seek ye? And they said to him, Rabbi (which, being interpreted, signifies Teacher), where abidest thou?” Now it is very important to notice that the Lord is challenging them as to what their motives are. We have been speaking about ministers, we are now speaking of their ministry too. These two disciples of John got help from his speaking in a feeling way, directing them to Christ. He served them well. You get help at the meeting, but what are your motives now? They followed Jesus, what are they thinking about? He says to the two on the way to Emmaus, “What discourses are these which pass between you as ye walk, and are downcast?”. The Lord challenges them as to what was in their minds. These disciples say, “Rabbi”. John the evangelist tells us what it means. They felt they needed to be taught. We need teaching. The Spirit of God tells us that the word means ‘Teacher’. I want to be sure I know things clearly. This gospel shows that we should all be taught of God. “And they shall be all taught of God” (John 6:45). We need divine teaching.
HEF Would you say these two disciples give great credit to their instructor?
JT They are graduating, but they need more. They want to know where He lives. The word means ‘Teacher’, but that is not all. They wanted to know where He abode, His home relations as it were. Very beautiful for young christians to want to be taught, and to want to know where Jesus abides.
[p. 256] Ques Does the ability to see enter into this? John the baptist looked on Him. The Lord says to the disciples, “Come and see”. John himself says, “I have seen and borne witness”.
JT That is the next thing. John’s gospel is that I have got to “come and see”. Luke is that things come to me. John is calling us out of the world, the religious world particularly. Jesus says, “Come and see”. The point is that was in their mind; they wanted to get the teaching in the right place, not only the right teacher.
BB It exercises what is in their hearts and affections.
JT Quite so. The Lord brought them out, but now what was in their hearts? They wanted a teacher, but they wanted Him in His home. That is like the meeting, where the Spirit of God has a place. That is where you get the truth rightly.
SWR In regard to feeling things as you were saying, is that the way the Spirit makes use of any gift in the assembly?
JT I think feelings have a great part in service. This same John the evangelist wept as receiving the Revelation, he felt things. I think John the baptist is affected here in his heart when he sees the walk of this glorious Person.
HF “They abode with him that day”.
JT Yes. That leads up to Peter, or Cephas, showing what a great matter it is. Where I speak feelingly of Christ others are affected; the motives are right. The Holy Spirit is in all this, and the whole matter is clear. They are brought to where Jesus is. Then Andrew is one of them. He then finds Simon his brother, and brings him to Jesus. This shows the development of the thing.
OL Would you say this short sermon John preached was in view of the gathering of the [p. 257] assembly?
JT Well, he would not have that thought in mind, but it led in that direction. That is, whatever is in the mind of God will be administered if I am moving in the right direction, if my motives are pure. After all, we know very little. We look back and we see what resulted from this thing, and that thing. It is God operating in everything.
OL It is important to have this in relation to the preaching of the gospel in order to get results.
JT Well, that is the point of our reading, that each one might take it to heart, so that the ministry might go on, and culminate in something for the assembly. That is the great end in view. It is Peter here, or Cephas, as the Lord calls him, something for the assembly, a living idea.