REDEMPTION AND DIVINE TEACHING
[p. 159] REDEMPTION AND DIVINE TEACHING
Reading, Revised by F.E.R.
Exodus 15: 1 - 27 I think we get here figuratively an idea of the kingdom. It is based on redemption and the destruction of the enemy. We have, too, the principles of the kingdom, that is, peace and grace and the hope of glory. They all come out in this chapter. The doctrine is found in Romans 4 and 5, but the type here. All was based on what had taken place in Egypt, that is, the declaration of God’s righteousness. The blood witnessed this on the part of God. The enemy had been destroyed in the Red Sea; salvation had come to pass. In Egypt there was not salvation, but shelter; but through the Red Sea there was salvation, and the effect is peace; grace comes in, and glory is in view. So that you have the kingdom and the effects of the kingdom. All is foreshadowed here, these things were written for our learning upon whom the ends of the world are come.
GR And all come out consequent on the victory.
FER It was the grace of God that brought them salvation; grace was on the part of God witnessed in the blood as well as righteousness. Salvation was when the power of the enemy was destroyed. Consequent on that is peace; the Israelites no longer feared the enemy, the Egyptian was destroyed. And further, we have the thought of the standing in grace, and God setting up His habitation, and finally the hope of glory. That is the full accomplishment of God’s counsel, “Thou shalt bring them in”.
JSA The expression, “The Lord shall reign for ever and ever”. There you get the kingdom.
FER You get a similar expression frequently in the Psalms, “Jehovah reigneth”. He reigns when the [p. 160] enemy is destroyed. It was the reign of grace really, for the people were for the moment under grace; they did not come under law until mount Sinai; every need was met for them in grace.
GR Would you say that Romans 3 and 4 answer to Exodus 12 and this?
FER I think the blood is typical of Romans 3, the declaration of the righteousness of God. God hath set forth Christ Jesus a mercy-seat “through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness”.
GR So that on that ground He can remit our sins.
FER He vindicates Himself in our eyes, both in respect of His ways in the past and in the present. The fact is that man is justified in seeing that God is justified, i.e., in apprehending God’s righteousness.
AEH What do you mean by the kingdom?
FER Reigning; “The Lord shall reign”, so again in Romans, “as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign”, etc. The kingdom is spoken of as the “kingdom of God” and again as the “kingdom of the Son of his love”.
LWB Is there a difference between the “kingdom of God” and the “kingdom of heaven”?
FER One is one aspect of the kingdom, and the other another. The thought of the kingdom of heaven is analogous to what God did at the beginning; He set a great light in the heavens to rule the day. The kingdom of God, on the other hand, is connected with the presence of the Holy Spirit down here; that is, there is power upon earth commensurate with the authority in heaven. Christ is the authority. If you want light and direction in regard to the pathway here, go to Christ. In all connected with service you go naturally to the Lord, because He is the great Light in heaven, but the Holy Spirit maintains the sway of God down here, so that, “the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit”.
[p. 161] Ques Would the kingdom of God be a more inclusive term?
FER I do not think so. One expression gives the power here, and the other the authority that resides in heaven.
JSA The kingdom was really set up when Christ took His place on high.
FER Yes, the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of God was present when Christ was on earth, for there was a power here superior to the power that oppressed man, just as we get in the case of Israel. There was a power superior to the Egyptian, which could destroy the Egyptian in the Red Sea. Hence the Lord says, “The kingdom of God is come upon you”, it was there in His Person. But what has come to pass now is that Christ is set in heaven at the right hand of God with authority; He is Lord there, and the Holy Spirit is come to establish the kingdom upon earth.
JSA And acknowledgement of the Lord really brings a soul into the kingdom.
FER Yes, the reception of the Holy Spirit and the confession of Christ as Lord.
WSE What has baptism to do with bringing into the kingdom?
FER Nothing. The kingdom is the result of seed-sowing. Baptism brings into the house, into christian fellowship.
JB You mean we come into the kingdom by owning Christ’s authority.
FER You receive the testimony of the kingdom; it is the effect of seed-sowing.
JB The thief owned Christ as Lord.
FER But you could hardly say that he came into the kingdom, for the kingdom was hardly set up. The case of the Philippian jailer will illustrate the point; the apostle said to him, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house”.
[p. 162] And afterwards he preached the word of the Lord to them, and the jailer received the word and came into the kingdom.
GR Would you not say that the thief was an illustration of salvation by owning the Lord?
FER I suppose so; my only difficulty was that Christ was at that time suffering; He was not in honour and glory, and the kingdom was not set up actually, though the thief saw underneath, and confessed Him as Lord. Spiritually the thief was in advance of anybody else at that moment.
GR I have connected it with Romans 10, “if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved”. The thief confessed Him as Lord, and then spoke of the kingdom, which really involved resurrection.
FER I have no doubt that the thief’s aspirations went out to that, but he could not believe in his heart that God had raised Christ from the dead.
GR Did not the thief get salvation?
FER I think he got salvation by his death; the death of Christ took him to paradise, but his own death was salvation. He was never baptised to the death of Christ, but he got salvation by death; that is, through it he got complete emancipation from the power of evil. We get salvation by death in a sense, but by the death of Christ we get heaven.
JSA The word of the Lord which was preached to the jailer was not exactly the scripture but the testimony of the Lord.
FER Yes, the apostle makes the statement, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house”, but afterwards he preached to them the testimony of the Lord.
JSA It is not texts of scripture but the testimony of the Lord.
FER I think a great point in connection with the [p. 163] kingdom is to get away from dispensational ideas. We have been greatly hindered by taking things up dispensationally.
Ques Why does Matthew make a distinction in speaking of the kingdom of heaven?
FER Matthew speaks of what God has set in heaven; Luke, on the other hand, takes the other side and leads to what God would establish down here, and so to the kingdom of God.
GR “Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God”. Is not the Lord’s answer, ‘You may do that now if you will’?
FER Yes. The present time is peculiar, for, as to the outward public dealings of God, it is really still the dispensation of law and prophets.
GR That is, in connection with the world as such.
FER Yes. I think that will not come to an end until the Lord comes and the kingdom is manifested.
AG Would you not say the purpose of God was apart from dispensations?
FER The church does not come in the course of dispensations. The kingdom has come in mystery, not publicly in the ways of God. So, too, the body of Christ is a mystery.
JSA I suppose the children of Israel at this point are really brought to God, and now there is nothing for them except God.
FER Nothing. They had peace with God, for God had destroyed their enemy. They knew God as a Saviour God, and they certainly stood in grace for the moment, and more than that they had glory in view. That was their position typically.
CAH Is that what characterises the kingdom?
FER Yes. “Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ”. “Through our Lord Jesus Christ” brings in the thought of the kingdom. Then the apostle goes on to say, “and rejoice in hope of the glory of God”.
WHF You say salvation is connected with the lordship of Christ.
FER Yes. How do you get free from the devil’s power, from Satan and his wiles? It is by the confession of Christ as Lord, “if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus ... thou shalt be saved”. If you recognise Satan and his activities and authority, you are free from it in the confession of Christ as Lord. Supposing a man has been under the power of spiritism, that man gets salvation by the confession of Christ as Lord.
JS Would you say that is turning away from one master to another?
FER Yes, that is what God has effected for you, “Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son, in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins”. He has delivered you from the power of Pharaoh and translated you into [p. 165] the kingdom of the Son of His love. Christ has led captivity captive, and given gifts to men. You confess Christ as Lord and receive gift from Him.
AG You say that is the power that confronts Satan.
FER Christ has annulled Satan.
GR Would you not say that ‘kingdom’ expresses two ideas, first subjection, and then, following that, protection?
FER One great idea in government is security.
GR You only get the benefit of that by being subject, and there comes the fact of the kingdom being established in our souls — the authority of God.
FER But it is the authority of God in grace; it is God coming in to gain the allegiance of man’s heart, and man finds that in allegiance to God he has a place of security.
JS You were speaking of being translated into the kingdom of the Son of His love, and that that is what God does, but Matthew’s gospel shows the kingdom of heaven as a world power, which could not be of God.
FER Yes, but that cannot affect the moral character of the kingdom. Man takes up the kingdom in that sense as a dispensation, that is, it loses the character of mystery to him, and then he finds it a useful thing here, and the first three parables in Matthew 13 show what the kingdom would become in the hand of man; but that does not affect the moral force of the kingdom, which is brought out in Matthew 18; there it says, “Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven”.
JSA So that if we are in the kingdom we should act as that chapter indicates, that is, in grace.
Ques Would you say that Matthew 13 is the outward manifestation?
FER I think so in the first three parables, but you get the three remaining parables, which show what the kingdom is in the mind of God, the treasure, the pearl, and the net cast into the sea.
AG What do you mean by the kingdom in the hands of man?
FER Man has taken up the kingdom in a dispensational way, has established government in the world on the authority of heaven; for instance, in our country the Queen takes the place of being head of the church, and reigns, ‘By the grace of God’; the Emperor of Germany does the same, ‘By the grace of God’, and in principle authority in these countries has been established on the ground of the word of God.
GR Even in this country you will find on the silver dollar, ‘In God we trust’, and the Congress is opened by the chaplain.
FER I do not think there is much of the kingdom [p. 166] of heaven in this country; there is much more of the authority of man; the democratic principle. It is not developed so much on our side, although it is fast coming in there. The rule of the people is a dangerous principle, though there may be something to be said for it, in a way, as things are.
GR But amidst all the confusion and corruption God’s kingdom remains, and we have the benefit of it.
FER Matthew 18 stands exactly where it did at the beginning, nothing is changed. You have to look at the kingdom morally; if you look at it dispensationally all is confusion. I believe brethren have made a mistake in looking at things too dispensationally. In a day of confusion you cannot apprehend anything aright except as you apprehend it morally. The first principle of the kingdom is peace, the law of the kingdom is grace.
JSA And the moral foundation is righteousness.
FER Yes; and the hope is glory.
GD So it is really grace that subdues.
FER Grace helps you along. You have in the Lord an apprehension of grace enthroned. The great point to us is that, instead of being overcome of evil, we may overcome evil.
JSA The object of it is to clear everything away, and to bring in a power that can lead on to the purpose of God.
FER And all the time you feel that you are under the rule of grace; you can always obtain mercy and grace. “Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed; thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation”. You have the Spirit of God here and the kingdom made good in His power; you have continual support and help so that, being left in a scene of evil, you may not be overcome by it. You can overcome in the power of the Holy Spirit and confessing Christ as [p. 167] Lord.
JS Would you say the law of the kingdom acts in this way, it is the grace of God toward us, but not only that, but toward one another?
FER If we do not act toward one another as God has acted toward us, we shall come under discipline. You get that in the parable in Matthew 18, “So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not everyone his brother their trespasses”. To fail to act to others as God has acted to us is not righteousness.
GR And that is really what the Lord says, “except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees”. It is not a question of quantity, but quality.
FER Exactly so. It has been said, the more sense you have of the righteousness of God, the higher will be your righteousness.
AEH Is this the kingdom that is to be set up upon earth?
FER It remains for the kingdom to be manifested. Two things have to take place; it has to be purged, and it will be manifested.
JSA It exists now in mystery.
FER You can understand for the moment the kingdom is hid at the right hand of God. It has been said to the Son, “Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool .... Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power”. In Matthew 13 we get the angels “shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity”.
JS Is there any difference between the Father’s kingdom and the kingdom of the Son?
FER They refer to the same point. In the prophets you get the idea of David’s kingdom, but David’s kingdom is really Jehovah’s kingdom, and this mystery is solved by the fact of Christ being son of David. David’s son is David’s Lord. He is the root and offspring of David.
[p. 168] JS As to point of time, you put the purging at the beginning of the millennium.
FER I think the angels come forth and purge the kingdom in view of the kingdom being manifested. I suppose it refers to the purging of christendom, which has been so far the scene of the kingdom, and it takes place between the rapture and the coming of the Lord.
JB He has received to Himself a kingdom and returns.
FER He has received the kingdom, “We see Jesus crowned with glory and honour”. He has received the kingdom, but has not yet returned.
WHF Is the kingdom the same in extent with christendom?
FER I think so, at the present time. It is difficult to talk about the limits of the kingdom, for if you do you are compelled to look at it as to what man has made it. If you want to see the limits of the kingdom, you have to see really how far things are professedly established on the authority of the word of God.
I think the office of high priest is in connection with the kingdom. Christ reigns in the future as a priest upon His throne, and at the present time priesthood is in connection with the kingdom. The counsel of peace is between the two, that is, the King and the Priest. Christ combines the two offices in the millennium. We have not only the authority of Christ as Lord, but He is the High Priest; having then “a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession; for we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin”. Then it adds, “Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need”. The sympathy and succour [p. 169] of the priest is in connection with the kingdom. He is good for those in the kingdom, and the effect is you come boldly to the throne of grace; we have Christ as Lord on God’s side, but as Priest on our side.
GR That is, He is Jehovah’s King to carry out the blessing of Jehovah’s people.
FER Quite so, but the One who is Jehovah’s King is Priest for us. It is certain that priesthood is a great principle of the kingdom in the future. Moses and Aaron came out to bless the people. With David the priest was associated with the king. Zadok was priest and David was king. We get the same principle in Psalm 110.
JS Do you look at sin as a master?
FER It has been a master; you have been delivered from it, and you are in danger of it, and now provision is made that you shall not be overcome by it. You are not under law, but under grace. I think priesthood comes in that connection. Christ makes intercession, and you obtain mercy and find grace in time of need.
AG That would be the Melchisedec order of priest.
FER Yes. I believe it to be a point of the last moment in connection with what God has established for Himself. The kingdom is what God has established for His own glory.
JSA But in a certain sense in view of man.
FER Yes, because all is in relation to man, but the kingdom is for God Himself, that man may come under the sway of grace and thus be recovered and brought back to God, and made conscious of the support of God.
GR Do you not get that in Psalm 2? “Yet have I set my King”. He is not King by popular election, but He is Jehovah’s King for Jehovah’s pleasure.
FER So here, Jehovah reigns for the protection of His people, “thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation”.
JB “My delights were with the sons of men”.
FER I like to get away from man, and seek to enter by grace into divine thoughts and divine ends, and to see how everything of God is outside of the course of this world.
JSA There is a beautiful sense of the grace of God in this verse, “He went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil”.
FER Nothing is more beautiful than that. Now Christ has gone up on high; Satan’s power is annulled; the kingdom is established and made good in the power of the Holy Spirit.
JSA And we taste the powers of the world to come.
FER Yes, we have peace and grace, and glory is in view. That is, we hope for that time when God will come forth publicly to manifest all that is of Himself.
AG I suppose each one of these three depends on the other.
FER Yes. You get a beautiful statement of the truth in Titus, “the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world, looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ”. That is the anticipation and hope of the christian.
AG Then it is you enjoy eternal life.
FER I think the kingdom is the first step; the covenant is the next, and reconciliation follows on that, and reconciliation leads to eternal life. That is the order of Romans 5.
JSA But we must have some sense of the kingdom of God first.
FER The next thing is, “thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation”. The [p. 171] house is here, and in christianity this is consequent on the Spirit having come. The Spirit of God is not incarnate as Christ was, but dwells in saints, and hence the habitation is formed, and when you get that you get the covenant, for in the habitation of God the Spirit is teaching, and that is the covenant.
WE Is that what you get in Romans 5, the love of God shed abroad in our hearts?
FER Yes, but you could not understand that unless you knew the kingdom. The Spirit has come to take up His abode here, and at the same time to be the teacher of God’s people.
WE You are ready for teaching after this?
FER Yes, after you recognise the presence of the Spirit. I think the great thing then is to know what is in the heart of God toward you.
JSA And to get hold of the fact that the teaching is made good only in the power of the Spirit.
FER It was the same order in the case of the children of Israel. They had, after redemption, to come to mount Sinai to learn the covenant. Of course in their case it was law.
Ques What is the aspect of our relation when Peter speaks of us as a kingdom of priests unto God?
FER I think it is like Israel, before God and in contrast to other nations, they were a kingdom of priests.
JSA Do you not think the centurion had some sense of that when he went to the Jews and asked them to go to Christ for him?
FER Yes. He recognised that Israel had a priestly place as a nation. You see that often recognised as regards christians. When a man is in trouble he will go to a christian, because he feels the latter has access to God.
WE It will be the same in the millennium.
FER It will be fulfilled as to Israel then; they will be a kingdom of priests and have a special place [p. 172] of privilege. Divine teaching is a wonderful thing. It is not until God has got you at rest in the kingdom that you can be a subject of divine teaching. People like Martha, restless and fussy, do not come much under divine teaching. The Lord is ready enough to teach, but they are indisposed to be taught because they think too much about others and their own service. We have, like Mary, to sit at the feet of Jesus hearing His word if we are to be taught.
AG Is that why we are so slow to learn?
FER Very few are ready for divine teaching. They are not quiet in spirit and free enough from things here.
JS They desire to do something.
FER Yes, and often they have an idea that if they acquire something more in the world it will enable them the better to serve God. There are few delusions greater than that. To become more prosperous is a dangerous thing, for the more prosperous you become the more power the things in which you prosper get with you. It has been said that adversity brings out a man’s strength, and prosperity his weakness. It requires a strong man to stand prosperity; sometimes the devil comes in to give a man prosperity because he thinks a man will not stand in it. God gives food and raiment and mercies to His people, but I think the best thing is to be content with present circumstances. If you are pursuing anything in the world, you are afraid of the world. If you have expectation from man, you are afraid of man. The point is, “The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me”. God has said, “I will never leave thee nor forsake thee”. These are the lessons of the kingdom.
WE One thing is needful all the way along.
FER You refer to what the Lord said to Martha.
JS Would you say the one thing was affection?
FER I think it is one thing in contrast [p. 173] to many,
to the mind being distracted with half a dozen things.
JSA A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.
FER That scene of Martha and Mary comes just after the parable of the good Samaritan, after there has been experience of the grace of Christ as Neighbour. We are brought into the kingdom and taken care of down here, and then it is that Christ becomes Teacher, and that, like Mary, we sit at His feet. When you have experienced the neighbour you are ready for the teacher. The beginning of the next chapter is the Lord teaching the disciples to pray.
JS Would it be strictly right to say the Lord wants the hearts of His people rather than their service?
FER God has set Himself to gain the heart of man, and I do not believe that His end is reached until He has gained it. Hence you find a good deal of stress laid on loving God, for then God has gained your heart. “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him”. Now, having gained your heart, He will load you with benefits.
JS And the heart of man would seek to get these benefits by his service.
FER Yes. But the Lord effects everything Himself. He is competent to carry out His own work. I do not think He is dependent on any of us. If a man has a gift from the Lord, you may be certain that man will have no quietness until he exercises his gift.
JB On the other hand there ought to be no laziness.
FER It is quietness of spirit that is wanted to enable us to learn of Christ.