THE SERVICE OF GOD
[p. 65] THE SERVICE OF GOD
Reading, Revised by F.E.R.
Hebrews 8: 1 - 13 Is this the summing up of what has gone before in the epistle?
FER Yes, it says “We have such an high priest”; but then it leads on to a further thought, and that is minister of the sanctuary or holy place.
JSA The characteristic feature of christianity is that the minister and the mediator are the same, and therefore you have perfection.
WM What is the difference between the mediator and the minister?
FER A mediator is from God to men, and minister is from man to God.
RSS What is the difference between the minister and high priest?
FER The minister has to do with the service of the holy places; the high priest prepares us for that service. The high priest has to do with the people in their infirmity; that is what you get to the end of chapter 7. He is able to save to the uttermost all that come unto God by Him. The high priest is appointed in regard of men; but He is also the minister of the sanctuary.
RSS Leading into the holiest is as the minister of the sanctuary?
FER Yes, “in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee”. There you get the thought of the minister of the sanctuary, but you would not know Him as minister of the holy places unless you knew Him as high priest.
RSS Is there a difference between high priest and great priest?
FER Yes, I think there is. High priest has reference to intercession and succour, “we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities”. The great priest is over the house of God. In a sense Aaron had this oversight.
JP It is the high priest in the first part of the epistle, and then the great priest.
GB Why is Christ called the Apostle and High Priest of our profession in the third chapter?
FER Because the profession is established under Christ as such. The profession of Israel was established in connection with Moses and Aaron; it was ordained in the hand of Moses, and Aaron was the priest connected with it. Now to us, all is under Christ. He is both Apostle and High Priest of our profession.
WM Is the object of His sustainment and sympathy to lead us into the sanctuary?
FER I think the purpose of it is to attach saints to Himself. He makes Himself indispensable to us in that way. Christ takes the place of leader of the praises of the universe. He has not only taken the place of revealing God, but as Man He has become the centre of the universe of bliss — He is the Centre and the Sun — “In the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee”, and then further, “I will praise thee in the great congregation”; and “I will sing praise to thee among the nations”.
AC Would you say that these last two circles that you have mentioned are not given effect to at present?
FER Not yet. I do not think there is any line of truth more interesting than to see the place that Christ has taken in the universe of bliss. Adam had a kind of place, but Christ takes the place of Head and Centre of all.
JT Would you not say the truth of the tabernacle [p. 67] is here?
FER I suppose it is a contrast to the material tabernacle.
JT Do you get in the true tabernacle the idea of dwelling?
FER I daresay. In a certain sense, in result God dwells in all; “that God may be all in all”. The thought of the true tabernacle may be very wide in final result. All things in a sense become the abode of God, and Christ ever sustains the place He has taken as man. I think His taking that place is the security for permanence in everything.
JP A verse in Revelation 21 is to the point, the “tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them”.
FER Yes, that is in the new heaven and the new earth. I think it is plain enough that the very thought of God dwelling must bring blessing in its train. Where God is, blessing must be, because He is the blessed God.
GB What was the idea of the tabernacle, because the temple came afterwards?
FER I think the tabernacle was of far greater import than the temple. The tabernacle was the pattern of things in the heavens, and the temple was never said to be that. There is one remarkable feature about the tabernacle that never was true, I think, in the temple, and that is the tabernacle was anointed with oil. The temple was built up in connection with the kingdom.
JSA The temple conveyed a more limited idea than the tabernacle.
FER Grace came out much more in connection with the tabernacle than with the temple; one of the most wonderful things perhaps that ever took place came out in connection with the tabernacle, and that is that God walked with the people. The tabernacle was shifting. The temple was a fixed abode in [p. 68] Jerusalem. The tabernacle was an extraordinary witness to the grace of God.
JP So that in spite of their circumstances, they got all the benefit and blessings of the presence of God.
WM Why do you emphasise the thought that the mediator and minister are one now?
FER Because the imperfection of the Jewish system was that the mediator and minister were two. Moses was mediator, and Aaron minister. They might not be always in perfect accord; as a matter of fact they were not always so.
CW I suppose the tabernacle typified the universe of bliss?
FER I think the tabernacle was a kind of foreshadowing that the whole system will be pervaded by the grace of the Spirit, that is why it was anointed with oil. In the fact of Moses being mediator, and Aaron priest, God gave a witness of the imperfection of the system.
JSA And the effect of Christ being both is that the service and worship correspond to God in the mind of the Mediator.
FER Yes, the ministry is perfectly consistent with the light of God. The Mediator brings the light, and the minister is charged with the service, and the service is according to the light.
WM So that the entrance into it is as great as the light.
FER The service is commensurate with the revelation.
JC What goes in is equal to what comes out.
FER Yes. You see the great divergence in the case of Israel, because while Moses was getting the communications, Aaron was helping to make the golden calf. There was not correspondence with the light there.
AC Where does the mediatorship come in, in connection [p. 69] with ourselves?
FER I think you get that in 2 Corinthians 3, where the new covenant is spoken of. The Lord is the Spirit of the new covenant. You learn the new covenant in the Lord. The same One who brings the light leads the praises. He says, “I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee”. In the first part of the passage it is more mediatorship; in the second it is more ministry. They are in accord with each other.
JT I think as a rule you can take in the idea of the mediator more easily than that of the minister, and perhaps we are slow to take in the idea of what Christ is toward God.
FER I think so. It is a distinction which is undoubtedly scriptural and is of the last moment. The same One in whom the fulness of the Godhead dwells is the Head of all principality and power; and He is the Head of the church, that is, He occupies that place as man in the presence of God.
JT Would you say that as the apostle He stands alone, but in connection with being the minister there is a company formed, and we come in?
FER Very much after the pattern of Aaron and his house. You do not find much about the house of Moses as being identified with him, but the house of Aaron was identified with him. Moses stood alone as mediator. In the service of God there was Aaron and his sons.
JT Would you say that a company is described in Him; such a high priest became us?
FER Yes, on account of the greatness of our calling. You really learn the character of the calling of the company from the high priest.
JSA And He was the Son, so we must be sons to be in that company.
FER Almost the whole of the statements in the early part of Hebrews is built up on two scriptures: the first is from Psalm 2: “Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee”; the second is from Psalm 110, “Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec”, and the object is to identify the priest with the Son; Hebrews 5: 5 and Hebrews 7: 28.
JSA In chapter 2 we have “bringing many sons unto glory”, and that is where we come in.
FER I think that shows the intimate connection between sonship and priesthood.
GR Will you say a little as to the difference between the Lord’s service as priest, in the first part of Hebrews, and in the second part commencing with chapter 8?
FER I think all the first part of the Hebrews is in connection with His service to us on earth, here in the wilderness, in the midst of difficulties; and the same thing will have its application to Israel hereafter.
GR The force of that word in chapter 7, “he is able also to save them to the uttermost”?
FER He is able to save us from every opposition and every enemy. Able to save us from being overcome and swamped.
GR It is not simply that He is able to carry us right through to heaven.
FER It may be; I think salvation has reference to what is hostile to God’s people. The object of the Spirit is to establish the hearts of God’s people in the ability of the High Priest to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him.
JT You were saying that in the sanctuary there is not the consciousness of the need of the priest.
FER In a certain sense you do not need there the service of the priest. We shall not need the service of the priest in heaven. We shall have the minister of the sanctuary. When we get to heaven we shall not need sympathy and succour; we shall not have occasion to come boldly to the throne of grace to obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. When we are in heaven, priesthood will be available for Israel [p. 71] upon earth; they will need succour then, but we shall not need it.
JSA If we come at all into the sanctuary now it means we are outside of the circumstances of the wilderness, that is, we are morally outside.
RSS We may be detained by the circumstances of the wilderness.
FER I think people get under the power of things here very largely.
RSS It is knowing Christ as high priest that would set us free.
FER It is confidence in the priest who is at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. It is confidence in His love. I think confidence is the effect of love rather than of faith. You get confidence in children, but it is confidence inspired by love.
JP Does the full assurance of faith in chapter 10 express it, “Let us draw near”?
FER No, that is faith, more.
CW When I come to the point that I am superior to my circumstances I am free to join Christ in the sanctuary.
RSS How does He declare the Father’s name?
FER He has declared it. “And will”, in John 17: 26, refers to resurrection. I would not speak of Him as declaring the Father’s name now. If the Father’s name is once declared, it is declared. He may maintain it in a certain sense, but it is declared. He has brought in a platform and the platform is there.
JSA That rather touches on the point of this morning. Once God has come out in the Father, He cannot go back to any other ground.
FER I understand the declaration of the Father’s name was when the Lord sent the message by Mary Magdalene, “I ascend unto my Father and your Father”, and that is out.
WM So He works to get saints into the good [p. 72] of what is declared.
RH What is it in the beginning of Hebrews, “I will declare”?
FER That is a quotation, to identify the Sanctifier and the sanctified. You get the truth of our Aaron in the second chapter, and in chapter 10 you get the sons. The Sanctifier is in chapter 2; in chapter 10 you get the sanctified. “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”, and then afterwards, “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest”.
WM Is the sanctification in chapter 10 our being able to take the place of sonship?
FER It is the will of God. In other words, it lies for us in the apprehension of the calling. It is only in that connection that Christ will identify Himself with us. He will not identify Himself with us as men down here in flesh, but only as according to the calling of God. If you fail to enter into the reality of eternal life, it proves that you do not understand what it is to be identified with the minister of the sanctuary. Plenty of people come to the meetings, but perhaps few people worship.
WM Does Ephesians 2 give the worshipping company, “you hath he quickened”?
FER Yes.
JSA What is the relation between the sanctuary and entering into the assembly?
FER I understand the sanctuary to be the light in which God presents Himself to us. We enter into the good of it in assembly. The assembly is in that. There is the light in which it has pleased God to shine out, and it is our privilege to be before God in that light, so that we praise God in the sense of the light.
JT We have to dismiss from our minds the idea of a place.
FER Exactly. There is a place; heaven is our place, but for the moment the sanctuary must [p. 73] be moral.
GH Can one be in the sanctuary the whole seven days?
FER I do not know at all. I would answer the question by saying most certainly I am not in the sanctuary the whole seven days. I have a great many things to do in the wilderness, and the wilderness is not in the sanctuary. The priest belongs to the sanctuary; but down here, if you take into account our circumstances, we have a great deal to do as common people. You always maintain the sense in your soul that you belong to the sanctuary, though you may have to take up a good many things that do not belong to it.
GR Is that not presented in Aaron’s sons, that they were not to rend their garments because they were connected with the sanctuary?
FER And so every christian, if he knows what it is to be sanctified, should carry himself in relation to the sanctuary, not getting under the influence of anything down here.
JSA So really we are priests, Levites, and common persons; and the one should contribute to the other.
FER My path in the wilderness is not my calling; I am here for the will of God; that is not my calling. Romans 12 is not my calling.
GR How is it that people find the meetings so dull very often?
FER I think if people do not find the Lord in the assembly, it is because they do not want Him.
JA So many carry their cares to the meeting on the Lord’s day morning.
FER You pass into the assembly through the Supper.
RH Why is it so often left to the end of the meeting?
FER It betrays a remnant of old thoughts. In the Church of England we used to take the Lord’s supper once a month, and it came at the end of the service. The Lord’s supper is properly introductory to the assembly, and it is through that that we pass over to His side. It is in the entering into His death that you pass over to His side as the living One, then you come to the service of the sanctuary.
GR Is that what you understand by passing through the veil, that is to say, His flesh?
FER I would not apply that passage to it. I think in principle it is true; it is through His death that you pass over to His side; we call Him into presence through His death. The Supper is really Christ’s voice to us. You do not recall Christ’s death, but Himself as the living One who was dead. You call Him to mind as One who lives.
WM And His death was an incident in the pathway of love.
FER Yes, because the love is still there. It is not as though it was only one final act of love. The love has not changed; it is still there. You get the subject of the assembly in 1 Corinthians 11 - 1 Corinthians 14, and the first point is the Supper, because it is introductory to the assembly.
WM I understand you are not laying down a rule as to when the breaking of bread should take place.
FER I am simply giving an idea.
GR What is the thought pressed in 1 Corinthians 10, the cup is the communion of the blood of Christ?
FER I think the death of Christ is the bond of our fellowship, and everybody has to be true to that bond. The mistake has been made of regarding 1 Corinthians 10 as the meeting. There is not any meeting there. There are hymns which speak about ‘we meet around Thy table, Lord’ — that is a mistake. 1 Corinthians 10 is not the meeting, but individual responsibility; that is, we are bound together in a certain bond of fellowship, and the responsibility of everyone is to be true to that bond. In a certain sense it is like articles of a partnership, and every [p. 75] partner must be true to those articles. Depend upon it, you may easily do many things which tend to compromise fellowship; people compromise the fellowship often by curiosity; you may have liberty to do many things, but there is another consideration, viz., as to whether what you do is compromising fellowship. If I were abroad, say in a Roman Catholic town, I would not go into a Roman Catholic church. I would not compromise fellowship. That is my objection to the use of theatres for preaching. If you use the theatre people will say you do not think so very badly about theatres.
RH Why is the cup mentioned in chapter 10 first, and the loaf afterwards?
FER I think because the elements are taken in their sacrificial order. The blood was sprinkled first, and then the body was burned outside the camp. When you come to the moral order you get the body first, because that is the token of Christ having given Himself. Then you get the blood as the expression of what God’s mind is towards you. The disciples had to accept the truth that Christ gave Himself for them that they might be apart from the flesh; and then afterwards He gave them the cup saying, “this cup is the new testament in my blood”, which expressed the mind of God toward them.
GR How is it that we do not get sins in Luke 22 when the Lord institutes the Supper — we have it in Matthew?
FER The allusion to sins only emphasises the giving of Himself; the new covenant. What the new covenant expresses is the love of God which has cleared everything away, so that we may know the love of God without the sins.
JC To turn back a moment; on the Lord’s day morning when we meet together to break bread, and after the bread is broken, there is very often ministry.
[p. 76] Would it not be happier if the saints would go on with the worship?
FER It would be happier to my mind.
JT Would it not be a great thing to catch the chord that the Lord strikes?
FER That is it. The one thing in the assembly is to be in accord with Him.
B If we were in the good of 1 Corinthians 10, we would not have much to say to the world.
FER No. There is in the world a great deal of idolatry, not in the old gross form, but in another form. A covetous man is an idolater. You may get a covetous man in the meeting. The apostle says “flee from idolatry”. Idolatry was that the people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. They sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play in the absence of the mediator, like christians enjoying themselves in the absence of Christ. That is idolatry.
JSA There is great importance in getting a sense of the calling of God. God called Abraham out to Himself from idolatry. What we lack is a real sense of the calling of God.
FER We want to study the great lesson book, and that is the death of Christ.
RSS You were saying that everyone who seeks the Lord finds His presence. How do you seek Him?
FER I think that you have to come at the Supper through the table; you cannot come at 1 Corinthians 11 except through chapter 10. In the Church of England we had a week’s preparation for the sacrament. Of course that was a formality, but you do want preparation for the assembly, and that preparation is that you are in separation in the fellowship of His death. I am not a bit in accord with what is going on down here on earth.
JT Chapter 10 is separation, while chapter 11 is seclusion.
FER What the Lord taught His disciples on the [p. 77] night of His betrayal was, virtually, I am going away, but I will teach you how you are to call Me to presence. I think you come together in assembly to meet the Lord, but I think the Lord will be called into presence morally by the breaking of bread. It is the Supper that is the rallying point of the assembly.
RSS Is it through the love expressed in His death that He is brought into presence?
FER As a father I love my children, but if I die I have no longer any love for them; they may remember that I did love them, but a dead man cannot love his children; but with Christ the case is entirely different. The love wherewith He loved His own is still there, and He is the living One. He says, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”. If I could give my life for you I could not love you after I died, that is not so with Christ. Hence, as was said just now, His death was an incident in the pathway of love.
GR Would you pray for the Lord’s interests in assembly?
FER No, I think it is not in the character of the assembly. An important point in our meetings is how we hold the young. It would be good sometimes if the meetings were shorter and not a weariness to the young. A word of exhortation or of wisdom or knowledge in the assembly is all right. If you are good priests God-ward, you will be serviceable man-ward.
GR In 1 Corinthians 14 you have prayer.
FER Well, I do not exclude prayer. I only claim that we cannot lay ourselves out for it; it must be as the Lord leads. I think it is happy to get to a meeting for prayer, but in that you do not exactly come together in assembly. You come together to pray, and the Lord vouchsafes His presence, but that is not exactly the assembly.