THE DIVINE GLORY ENTERING
[p. 109] THE DIVINE GLORY ENTERING
Exodus 24:9 - 11; Exodus 40:17 - 33
RB Will you indicate what you had in mind?
JT I had in mind the circumstances, as divinely appointed, in connection with which the divine glory enters in among the people of God. It may be observed that the house of God is introduced in Scripture in connection with journeying, that is, it is provisional; it is introduced in Genesis, as most of us will remember, when Jacob was on a journey; chapter 28: The appearings or manifestations of God, vouchsafed in Genesis, may be compared profitably with the appearings in Exodus, all of which have the house in view. I had in mind in reading the passage in Exodus 24 that we might see something of the divine circumstances, what the divine dwelling associations are on high, so that we may have some conception of what is suitable here. There is with us, I fear, the disposition to assume that anything, as it were, will do for God, whereas He would impress us in view of the dwelling, with what He is accustomed to. So after the covenant in which, typically, He makes known His love to the people, He introduces the principle of ascension, directing that Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu and seventy of the elders of Israel should ascend, so that there might be competent witnesses of what is required by the divine dwelling on high. What is here must in some way correspond with what is there.
All that preceded in the book furnishes abundant evidence of God’s interest in His people, and His power and His love, so that He would now impress them with what is on high, what He was accustomed to in the way of dwelling, so they saw Him and what was under His feet. He was not asking them to give [p. 110] any such pavement of sapphire in the wilderness, but He was reminding them that this was what He was accustomed to. So that if He walked with them for a time in a tent on the bare sands of the desert, He would impress them with the love that would put up with such circumstances, but He would also remind them that He was accustomed to something different; He was accustomed to a pavement of sapphire under His feet. He tells David that He had not asked him to build Him a house (which would include a flooring), but that He had walked with the people all those years “in a tent and in a tabernacle”, 2 Samuel 7:6. That was His love, but He would remind them, as I have said, that if they bring God into menial circumstances or hardship, so to speak, they should remember that they are taxing His love. He is ready to meet them, ready to be taxed in that way, but they should remember that they are doing that.
The Lord Jesus came in on these principles: “The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us”, John 1:14. John points out what He was, where He was, and with whom He was; but He “became flesh, and dwelt among us”, or tabernacled, as it should read. His feet felt the thorny way, and this was recognised by those who loved Him; we see in Luke 7 and in John 12 how love recognises Him. So the saints should understand that if divine love takes that way, there is sacrifice in it; it is His love acting, doing its very best for us, and we should not think lightly of it, or think that God is prepared to accept anything that we may furnish.
RB Do you connect that with John: “Looking upon Jesus as he walked”? John 1:36.
JT Well, it is how it is presented. Having come in to dwell among men, “among us”, as John says, they “contemplated his glory”. John 1:14. First it is said, “there standeth one among you, whom ye know not”, John 1:26 waiting, as it were, for His time: He was there in [p. 111] love. And then they are looking on Him as He walked; He was first walking toward John, and then walking. In both evangelists, that is, in Luke and John, He is anointed on the feet; it was love taking account of the way He took; it was no “paved work of a sapphire stone”.
GJE The basis of God being with us is divine love.
JT That is how it stands; He is showing us what He was leaving to come down into our circumstances.
Rem “Though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor”, 2 Corinthians 8:9.
JT That is the principle of it.
Ques Would the colour of the sapphire stone — blue — suggest the heavenly character of things?
JT I suppose so; it says, “As it were the form of heaven for clearness”.
HH It is more than a sapphire stone, it is a pavement.
JT “Paved work”, it says. It would be a formation; it suggests great care being expended on it; putting down a pavement work under the feet requires peculiar labour; and besides it is of sapphire.
HH Do you think it would convey the thought of what was permanent? You have the sapphire stone in the holy city at the end; what was God’s thought at the beginning carries right through.
JT Just so.
RB Do you apply the pavement of sapphire to the house of God on earth at the present time?
JT Well, the house of God, as I was saying, is connected with journeying both in Genesis and Exodus — something that could be taken down, as it were, and put up again; and the idea of a flooring is not in view. It was said to Jacob, “The land on which thou liest”. Genesis 28:13. He was on the bare earth with a stone for his pillow; there was nothing there in the way of comfort, but then it is called the house of God,
[p. 112] for God was there. So throughout the instructions here, we have no provision whatever for flooring. Of course the pavement is found with Solomon, but that leads in another direction. The house is primarily what we have here in Exodus.
RB Did you say that seeing the pavement of sapphire would give them to understand what was suitable to divine walking?
JT I did not mean that, I meant that we should understand what the heavenly thing is, and thus what God would sacrifice so as to be with Israel. Of course there should be some correspondence with it here, but we cannot provide a pavement of sapphire, nor does God ask us to. Love would take the way indicated, as He says, “... even to this day, but I have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle” 2 Samuel 7:6; it is love’s way. He does not ask for a flooring, but He shows us that that was what He was accustomed to; hence it was sacrifice.
AJH Is it your thought that if God is pleased to walk with us here, we should have a deeper sense of the condescending love that would do so?
JT That is what I was thinking; we should ever bear in mind that divine love has come out of its own circumstances to serve us, and to be with us.
RB Have you something to tell us about Jacob lying on the bare earth?
JT That is literally what he did. Of course he did not know it was the house until he dreamed, but spiritually it is a very unsuitable position to be in; “The land on which thou liest” Genesis 28:13; that is chapter 28. But in chapter 35 he is not lying on the earth, but standing, and Jehovah comes down and stands by him, talks with him there, and goes up from the place where He talked. Jacob then sets up a pillar there, showing that he had now arrived at the idea of the house, that he had intelligence as to it. We are not to lie in the house, there are no beds there: I mean [p. 113] to say, the idea is rather that of service. God is working and it is for us to be there ready to serve; When you come to 1 Samuel you find with Eli the idea of sitting at the door of the temple and of lying down and sleeping in it, but that is not in keeping with it.
PL “Which by night stand in the house of the Lord”. Psalm 134:1.
JT That is it, it is a question of a charge; so that the ark shows us the way in Numbers. The ark was set up in the centre of the camp in dignity according to the direction, but when the people had to move, the ark went before, showing that divine love could never be limited even to its own regulations. It will ever be ready to act for us, free to show itself, and hence the ark moved out of its own place and went before, doing the pioneering, the suffering part; it went before them.
RB Then in the house of God one is to have the sense of the beautiful condescending character of the love of God.
JT Yes, exactly; Exodus teaches us that. Genesis emphasises the idea of manifestations of a more personal nature, to show personal interest, as to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob. Here in Exodus the first manifestation is at the backside of the desert; God is in the bush, and it is called the thorn-bush, meaning that He had come down to these humble circumstances. Thus the first impression that Moses is to have is that God comes into these circumstances; and withal he is to understand that it is God who does it: “Put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground”, Exodus 3:5. Nevertheless, God had come into the bush, and so it was the “goodwill of him that dwelt in the bush” Deuteronomy 33:16, it is not the goodwill of Him that dwells in heaven, that is fully admitted elsewhere, of course, but it is the goodwill of Him that dwelt in [p. 114] the bush. One who comes down to dwell in the bush will do anything for you; what may you not expect from Him?
PL Does God get worship as the result of this condescending love? The Father seeks worshippers, seeks them at the hand of Him who sat weary on the well.
JT Exactly. He was weary with His journey and sat thus on the well, and made no effort to hide the circumstances. Think of the Lord of glory, the Son of God there! He had come down there, and He impresses that on the woman: “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water”. John 4:10. But then in the instruction given to her you have the thought of “the Father seeketh”. John 4:23. He takes great pains in seeking worshippers. He comes into that position to reach the woman of Sychar.
GJE It is the love of God in Him that attracts; it is seen there in Him, and He was journeying.
JT That is the point. In the parable in Luke 10 He pictures Himself journeying, and as we were saying, both in Luke and John you have the feet anointed, showing love in the believer taking account of love in Christ.
GJE So that in journeying to the house of God, there is the taking account of the love that gives us to move.
JT That is so; we are ever in the presence of love coming into such circumstances, so He says to Moses, “I am come down to deliver”. Exodus 3:8. But then He dwelt in the bush. Think of God there in those circumstances! He dwelt in it, whereas in heaven He has under His feet a paved work of a sapphire stone. You can understand how the Lord “emptied himself”, as it says, in coming down; Philippians 2:[p. 115] 7.
JJ Does that agree with the gospel of Luke when the Lord refers to what was said to Moses, and then immediately following you have the house of God and the widow casting in two mites, the Lord thus recognising the humble circumstances?
JT The widow’s act introduces a new order of things. The literal thing, the old order, was hardly equal to her gift; the widow was beyond her day. She gave all that she had. That went far beyond Jacob’s proposal, which was a tenth.
In proceeding with the subject of these manifestations, I was thinking that the holy anointing oil is essential to the divine incoming of the glory. That is to say, when the tabernacle was set up according to the scripture in chapter 40 which we have read, it is not simply the shell, and all the curtains and so forth first, although that no doubt was so, but as you proceed in the account of it being reared up, the thing is all there at once; it is a living organism. If you have the ark, you have the testimony in it; if you have the table the bread is upon it; if you have the candlestick, the lamps are lighted; if you have the altar, there are the offerings being offered on it; if you have the laver, you have the priests’ feet being washed in it. It is typically a living state of things and all pervaded by the Spirit.
Ques Is that what is meant by being in accord with heaven?
JT Well, God is the living God; Peter says in writing to the dispersion, “To whom coming, a living stone ... yourselves also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God by Jesus Christ”, 1 Peter 2:4,5. The whole thing is there at once, it is all in function, it is all in the persons, so to speak. It is a living thing, as if God would remind us in forming the house that there is movement all the time, and you are governed by right principles,
[p. 116] having Him in view. The house normally is marked by intelligent service.
RB So you mean that, even now, when we have the idea of the house we have at once spiritual activities relative to it.
JT That is right, but you cannot come together on the first day of the week and find a ready-made state of things. There is to be a living state of things throughout the week; that is what underlies the anointing. ‘By the Spirit all pervading’. (14:5) “If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit”, Galatians 5:25. And so in coming together on the first day of the week, there is a living state of things — the thing is in process, it is workable at once.
HH Is it because God is dwelling there?
JT The anointing secures it for us, as we give place to the Spirit.
PL Would that be borne out in John 12? In the family at Bethany we have every one in the movement of life, and the Lord supreme there.
JT That is an excellent illustration of it. The Lord knew well enough what was at Bethany, “Loose him, and let him go” John 11:44 had the activity we are speaking of in view. The subject really begins with “Lazarus of Bethany”, John 11:1 the idea being a locality in which active life is to be. Lazarus was sick, and he died, but it was for the glory of God. So at the outset in chapter 11 it is “Lazarus of Bethany”, and then Mary the sister who anointed the Lord with ointment, that is what is in the mind of the Spirit; and then in chapter 12 the Lord comes to Bethany “six days before the passover”. He “came to Bethany, where was the dead man Lazarus, whom Jesus raised from among the dead. There therefore they made him a supper, and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those at table with him. Mary therefore, having taken a pound of ointment of pure nard of great price, anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment”. John 12:1 - 3.
[p. 117] It is all movement, a living state of things, and everything is ready.
Rem It is a living state of things governed by affection.
JT Yes, and by intelligence, because Mary had kept it against His burial. It was a measured amount, a pound, meaning that she was in keeping with 1 Corinthians 14. You measure what you are giving; for instance, you do not make your prayers too long.
HH There would have been the consciousness with them that they were doing that which was His pleasure.
JT Yes; you feel in the way it is presented that it was that — a scene wholly befitting.
HH Being at Bethel a second time, Jacob would be there for God’s pleasure. It is an important point; we are there not conscious of need, but of being for the divine pleasure.
JT So that all the care expended on Jacob was in view of Bethel. After he reaches it, it says Rebecca’s nurse dies. Then the Holy Spirit gives us an epitome of the result of Jacob’s experience: that “God appeared to Jacob again after he had come from Padan-Aram, and blessed him”. Genesis 35:9. Then it goes on to say what God said to him; He changed his name to Israel and then divulged His own name, saying, I am God Almighty. He talked with Jacob as having come down to him, and then He went up from the place where He talked with him. Then Jacob sets up a pillar there, pouring a drink-offering upon it, signifying that he was conscious now of being to God’s pleasure. And so I think in John 11 all the care expended by the Lord was to the end that there should be such a state of things at Bethany — a living state of things.
JJ Do you see the same living state of things at Colosse? Chapters 3 and 4.
JT Well indeed. “Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God”. Colossians 3:3. In regard to Bethany, it says, according to John’s gospel, that He came to Bethany six days before the passover, but Matthew in mentioning it says, “But Jesus being in Bethany, in Simon the leper’s house”, Matthew 22:6 which is a different thing altogether. John suggests that the Lord may come to a locality in relation to those who are intelligent and who love Him; but Matthew would intimate that He may be in your town but not in relation to you, but being in the town He may have to say to you. We know He could not be bound whatever may bring Him; what brought Him there is not mentioned; but we know He moves about. He may come to a town apart from you and me, because He has great affairs, and He is carrying on much that we may not know about. But being in the town in the house of Simon the leper, “a woman [her name is not even given] having an alabaster flask of very precious ointment, came to him and poured it out upon his head as he lay at table”. Matthew 26:7. But it is very different in John’s account, because he is dwelling on a condition of things that the Lord Himself had expressly brought about.
GJE These living conditions so beautifully spontaneous are the result of something you mentioned earlier, that is, sacrifice.
JT Yes. That is so, something on the line of sacrifice. If we speak about the testimony, there is the ark of the testimony, and the testimony is in it; the thing is there in its full function, so to say; if we speak about the table of shewbread, the bread is on it, the thing is there; if we speak about the candlestick, the lamps are lighted; and if we speak about the altar of burnt-offering, the offerings are being offered; that is how the record reads; Exodus 40.
GJE That is the normal condition of the house of God, but in following the divine light what [p. 119] troubles me is how these conditions are brought about.
JT That is just the point; it means that I am in these living conditions all the time. I do not change my coat, so to speak, when I come to the meeting; I am there all the time in principle; I am living.
GJE You do not change your coat any time during the week.
JT No, you are there; it is the same thing. There is the laver; what is it there for? They are washing in it, the priests do so. We can draw near on those lines: “Let us approach with a true heart, in full assurance of faith, sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water”, Hebrews 10:22.
Ques Are you pressing that when the saints are together they are to be ready to function for the divine pleasure?
JT You are to be available. It is not a shell that you come into; in principle you are the thing. In the house of God there is intelligent activity.
RB The thought of the coming down of God to such a level is what is before you, is it not?
JT That is what I was leading up to, the glory comes in in these circumstances.
Ques Does John 1:14 suggest a living condition of things, “The Word became flesh”? John 1:14 Well, that is active love; He came in thus; those among whom He was dwelling contemplated His glory, that is, He was within their range. Moses contemplated God in the bush, and Moses, Aaron and the seventy elders contemplated Him above; but then you must have living conditions for God down here. He comes in in this setting, that is, as the living conditions are there.
Ques What would answer in the New Testament to “they saw God”?
JT The mount of transfiguration. The Lord specially selected those who were to ascend; they should see there what He was, and what heaven thought of Him; He was transfigured, He was changed, “His face did shine as the sun”, Matthew 17:2 but then He was praying. It is a wonderful scene. So Peter says, “We have not followed cunningly devised fables ... but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory”. 2 Peter 1:17. You get an apprehension of what He was on high. Then it says, “they no longer saw any one, but Jesus alone with themselves”, Mark 9:8. Moses and Elias were not coming down; but He is coming down with the disciples.
DLH Is that not pretty much the force of the incident when Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu and the elders of Israel went up and saw God and the pavement of sapphire stone? Is that not a kind of representation of the glory to which everything is tending in result?
JT I think so, but help us further on it.
DLH Well, I thought in Exodus before the tabernacle is set up we have the divine thought in regard of the pleasure of God, how He would desire to have men in His presence in perfect rest; they saw the God of Israel, and they ate and drank; they are perfectly at rest there and familiar with the whole scene of glory that comes in. It seems to me, before we get the tabernacle system set up, God would show what He intended in full and final result to bring His people to.
JT That is true, hence the journeying. The conditions that He is willing to accept down here remind us of His love.
DLH Then what is quoted from Peter, “but were eyewitnesses of his majesty”. 2 Peter 1:17 really is the end [p. 121] to be reached after all in regard to the kingdom glory, and it will be reached assuredly.
JT Yes. The purpose of God and the house of God are two distinct things. The house of God is here and appears as we are on a journey and affords us home conditions on the journey, and God takes part in the journeyings, as we have it here; He comes into desert conditions. The specification, of course, provided for His dignity and majesty, but nevertheless it is His love coming down; I am sure you would admit that.
DLH Indeed, I think that is a blessed thought, the end of it all will be secured, namely, this scene of glory is going to be established assuredly.
JT So that “they saw the God of Israel”; “they saw God”, it says, “and did eat and drink”; as you say, they were perfectly restful there.
Ques Is there any difference between these two expressions — seeing the God of Israel and “they saw God”?
JT There is a difference, the latter is a fuller thought; He has other relations besides Israel. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth”, Genesis 1:1 that is not the God of Israel. He is the God of Israel, but He is in another relation, and so “from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God” Psalm 90:2; that is what Moses said himself; he understood that. “Thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations” Psalm 90:1; that shows what an impression Moses had of God. It was not what He built that was their dwelling; God was their dwelling place. “He that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him”, 1 John 4:16.
GJE I suppose the reason why John does not give us the mount of transfiguration was because God was there all through.
JT Well, I think so. They contemplated His glory, His coming in, as an only begotten with a father.
[p. 122] That really is essentially the mount of transfiguration; the glory of His Person is seen in both: “This is my beloved Son”; “we contemplated his glory”. John 1:14. John is able to describe it; it was “a glory as of an only-begotten with a father, full of grace and truth”.
Ques Do we get an illustration of it in Hebrews 2 and 3, “Bringing many sons to glory”, Hebrews 2:10 in chapter 2, and then the house of God in chapter 3?
JT I think the glory must precede the actual formation of the house. It is so in John 11. “This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it”. John 11:4. That glory is to shine before you have the formation at Bethany, the formation to which He could come. It was in the light of the glory and the glory shone in the most resplendent way there. The glory of the Son is seen in the way in which He speaks to the Father. He says, “And I knew that thou hearest me always”, He knew that; “But because of the people which stand by I said it” John 11:42; and then He says, “Lazarus, come forth”. John 11:43. It is the Son in perfect subjection to the Father acting for Him and with Him, but nevertheless in His relation as Son. John 12:27 - 30 records a similar scene, and then there is the wonderful prayer of chapter 17, evidently uttered in the presence of His disciples.
Ques In regard to John 12, as to Mary anointing the feet of the Lord, did she recognise the condescending love expressed in the journey?
JT Just so; and she goes beyond the point He had reached; for there were six days yet ahead; she kept the nard for His burial, showing that she apprehended the full length of the journey — He was going all the way. It is a wonderful scene at Bethany, because it is expressly to bring out what may take effect as the result of the care expended by the Lord in any locality. If the Lord comes, He comes in relation to that: “where was the dead man Lazarus, whom Jesus raised from among the dead”. John 12:1.
[p. 123] But then, as I said, in Matthew He was there. “Being in Bethany”, we read, “He was in the house of Simon the leper”. Matthew 26:6. What brought Him there we are not told, because He does not always tell us why He comes to a place, for He has great business affairs. He has other people that He is looking after, and whom He may not tell us anything about. I mean, if we are not near, He will not tell us, but the nearer we are to the Lord, the more we shall know what He is doing in christendom.
Ques Do you think the passover lamb in the house of an Israelite for a few days before it was slain is analogous to John 12?
JT The one who represents the position in Exodus is typically the Hebrew servant; he is the spirit of the thing, that is, he loves, but then God loved before. I mean to say, the thought is, that God has come in in love. He said in effect, “I have come down and I am ready to dwell in the bush”. Now the Hebrew servant says, I love, “I love my master”, Exodus 21:5 that is the response here. I suppose in some little measure Moses answered to that, and God honoured him greatly.
HH Moses did what God would love us to do; he entered into the spirit of things, into what is behind the letter.
JT Quite so; you get a beautiful expression in regard of him when envied by his brother and sister: “But the man Moses was very meek”. Numbers 12:3. The suggestion is there was a man there, a person of affections and sympathies — the meekest in all the earth; God says, “The form of Jehovah doth he behold” Numbers 12:8; God spoke with him face to face.
HH He was the Hebrew servant.
JT In measure he was, and that is what is needed, that is what God recognises.
Rem “I love my master”, Exodus 21:5 etc.
[p. 124] JT Yes; he was learning what God was doing, and he was in some little way entering into the spirit of it.
RB Do you connect your thought in chapter 24 with chapter 40, that an apprehension of the love that stooped down to be with them in those lowly circumstances would promote affection and response in the service of the tabernacle?
JT That is it, and then God comes in to that; He is the living God, and He comes into a living state of things.
RB Will you say a word about the glory coming in?
JT Well, if you take the systems of worship, so-called, around us, they are not living. He is the living God and the Lord says the Father seeks worshippers, that is, the persons; it is not the thing but the persons, and I think that is what is suggested in the setting up of the tabernacle. There is a living state of things. If you understand it spiritually, it refers to the persons who are living, who have the Spirit, so that all these things are in function. The testimony is in the ark, the lamps are lighted, the shewbread is on the table, and the sacrifices are on the altar, and the water in the laver is being used, so that it is a living state of things and things are done intelligently. God will go any distance with people who love, He will put up with all kinds of adverse circumstances to be with those who love, for he who dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him, wherever he be or whoever he be.
RB Then are these things that are going on in the tabernacle, in the house, the outcome of the anointing?
JT That is what I thought; the anointing is the great feature; much is made of it.
RB You made a remark that it refers to intelligence.
JT [p. 125] It does. The Spirit is everything to us in that way, the anointing giving us intelligence, and is the power of love in us, so that it is, as the apostle says, “If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit”, Galatians 5:25. We are thus kept, and as we come together we are free, we are ready for God, we are available for Him.
Ques Did Paul see these living features at Thessalonica, where he could speak of them as having become models to the assembly?
JT Exactly; they are not described as persons who are saved, but that they had “turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God”. 1 Thessalonians 1:9.
PL Would the glory coming into the tabernacle correspond to Christ’s activities as Head? In Colossians He has been referred to as the hope of glory: “Christ in you, the hope of glory”, Colossians 1:27.
JT I think so; I think these manifestations in Genesis and in Exodus (and there are many of them) point to divine incomings under certain circumstances. The Israelites were familiarised with divine Persons. At the very outset God was there in the cloud by day and in the pillar of fire by night. He was there before their very eyes; then He moved round between them and the Egyptians. Then as the manna comes the glory shines; He is there in that relation. And right through you have constant appearings so that the Israelites were familiar with the presence of God personally. During all the forty days the cloud was on the mount for their eyes to see.
Ques What would you say as to Nadab and Abihu having had such experience and yet so grievously failing later?
JT That is another matter, it comes out in Leviticus. They have their place there, but there you get the breakdown of the priesthood, because Leviticus is the priest’s book. Exodus is not the priest’s book specifically; it is in the priest’s book that we have that record of failure. The priests make a poor showing, which is a humbling thing for us to see. The book that is intended to instruct us brings out how we fail in the exercise of priesthood.