FOOD RECOVERED BY GIDEON
[p. 109] FOOD RECOVERED BY GIDEON
JT We have, hitherto, been engaged in a more positive way with the different kinds of food that are supplied; but now it is a question of the supply being cut off. There are times of plenty and times of famine. Here, it is not exactly famine, but the destruction of the food supply.
AFM This would be governmental — the result of the children of Israel having committed evil against Jehovah.
JT That is what I thought. We may see the difficulties under which food is supplied in these circumstances. Gideon, I think, represents the energy that would overcome these conditions.
HSD What would the Midianites represent, spiritually?
JT Some natural influence; they were related to Israel, and, I think, denote influence of that kind — influence arising from natural links, and of a very extensive sort, too. It says, “And they encamped against them, and destroyed the produce of the land, until thou come to Gazah, and they left no sustenance in Israel, neither sheep, nor ox, nor ass. For they came up with their cattle and their tents, and they came as locusts for multitude; both they and their camels were without number”. We should notice the relation in which these people stood to Israel, being descended from Abraham, as Israel was, but by another mother.
HSD And Amalek, too, was linked with them. Was he a relation also?
JT Amalekites are mentioned in Genesis 14, and then Amalek comes in afterwards in the line of Esau. It is a question as to whether you can trace them [p. 110] exactly to Abraham, but they are the first enemies that Israel met after Egypt; and they are among the last that they will have to do with in their history — a sort of perpetual kind of enemy, always ready to fall in with others when they attack. You will always find that when any others attack, Amalek is ready to join in.
AAT I notice that the shortage of food did not originate with Midian, but was due rather to Israel’s bad state, as verse 1 shows.
JT What God allows governmentally, is one thing, but the enemy and opposition was there.
AAT But at the back of that, the people themselves were in bad state, were they not?
JT Quite. That is what we are told in verse 7. The prophet here is unnamed; because what was needed, under such circumstances, was the prophetic word. It was not a question of the one through whom it came.
AP There must be a difference between a famine, and a lack of food caused by the enemy.
JT Yes, there is a great difference. The first is the direct hand of God; the other is indirect. The earth yielded its increase, as far as we can see; but the Midianites came up in hordes, and instead of destroying the Israelites, they “destroyed the produce of the land”.
AP Is there any difference between the cause of famine, and that of the enemy’s cutting off the food supply?
JT Not much. God might have sent a famine for the same reason, as He sometimes did. Solomon in his prayer (1 Kings 8) contemplates both — the direct action of God, and the indirect; and so also when God proposed to David as to whether He should cause a famine, or whether David should flee before his enemies, or whether there should be pestilence; David accepted the latter, saying, “Let us fall, I [p. 111] pray thee, into the hand of Jehovah; for his mercies are great; but let me not fall into the hand of man”, (2 Samuel 24:14).
AP Would it not be more humbling to be dealt with indirectly by enemies such as Midian or Amalek?
JT I think so. David preferred the direct action of God. “Let us fall ... into the hand of Jehovah; ... but let me not fall into the hand of man”.
HSD Thus he was not in the hands of the enemy.
AFN What was the character of Israel’s sin here?
JT They had not hearkened to God’s voice. And I think there must have been some recognition of social relations. Brethren suffer much from natural links and natural influences, so that God often allows you to feel that such are depriving you of your spiritual food.
JT So that the thing we indulge in becomes our scourge.
BTF Speaking of natural influences, had you any particular one in your mind?
JT We are all prone to reflect unduly what is natural — i.e., our natural relations; and if we do, they become our scourge. The solemn thing is that, in such a case, we are so dulled that we do not discern of what we have been robbed. Natural influence might keep one away from the meeting, for instance, and one allows it again, and presently one has no taste for the meeting. We fail to realise what we have robbed ourselves of; but it was the natural influence that begot this sad condition of soul.
CAM Peter speaks of the things that war against the soul; and there is the element of war against the Spirit, too. This would be a thing that would war against the soul in some insidious way.
JT Is it a question of something that would take away your spiritual food, some natural influence that would rob you.
APT Joseph’s brethren say of him, “Come and let us sell him to the Ishmaelites”, (Genesis 37:27). They would get rid of what was of God, on natural lines, but as expressing their hatred.
AAT The prodigal in Luke 15 became impoverished in the far country, and would have fed upon the husks; then he turned to God. These people seem to have turned to God when in a similar condition.
JT Thus the divine intervention is seen in verse 7: “And it came to pass when the children of Israel cried to Jehovah because of Midian; that Jehovah sent a prophet to the children of Israel”.
WGT They made dens in the mountains to escape these things, we are told.
JT They felt their weakness, but that did not deliver them.
AFM The seven years of their oppression would refer to a complete period imposed of God, at which point they cry to Him in self-judgment, would you think?
JT I think so; the seven years of suffering and their crying to Jehovah would denote that.
TA Are these conditions analogous to those of our own day, in which the man of faith would shine as providing food?
JT Yes. It is a question as to how this enemy is to be overcome. Gideon represents the man who overcomes in such a situation. It says of Joash that “his son Gideon threshed wheat in the winepress, to secure it from the Midianites”. Attention is called to the very great difficulty under which he laboured to secure the wheat of the Midianites.
AFM He had sown and secured the crop.
JT Yes; he had the wheat. The principle of the oppression of the Midianites was, that they would come up in immense hordes, [p. 113] and overwhelm Israel by their presence, and force them back into hiding places.
AP Does Gideon represent the element that had been listening to the prophet?
JT He represents a movement to prevent the enemy attaining his end. He is against the Midianites.
ARS He found a way to secure food.
JT He had the right principle before him.
ARS He valued the food, and found a way to preserve it.
JT His hand was against the enemy. You will notice that it is not simply the threshing of wheat, and so valuing the food, but he secured it from the Midianites.
ARS Have you any thought about the wine press?
JT I think it refers to the pressure Gideon himself was under. A wine press would be smaller than a threshing floor.
AFM Is there any significance in the fact that it was wheat he was threshing?
JT I think so. Probably it was twice as valuable as barley.
TA Is wheat typical of Christ personally?
JT Well, not exactly. I think barley is that, inasmuch as it was the first crop of the season, being sown very early. The cake of barley bread that Gideon heard of was not exactly Christ personally, but the apprehension of Christ that Gideon would have. It was baked, being a cake. It “tumbled into” the camp of the Midianites — an extraordinary sort of movement, but a very effective one, indicating that Midian would be overthrown by the very thing they were seeking to get and carry away.
AFM Would the wheat have reference to the saints as a heavenly [p. 114] company?
JT It refers to the saints. It comes in later than barley. Ruth continued from the barley harvest to the wheat harvest; (Ruth 2:23).
AFM Gideon was evidently superior to natural influence, as indicated in the Midianites, for he had wheat and was threshing it; which might refer to believers in their heavenly position.
JT I think what you get out of that is this: he was going in for the best kind of cereal, the most valuable; that is, if a man is going to secure food from the enemy, he thinks especially of the best. You want food that relates to the church. You want to secure the heavenly calling, at all costs.
BTF That order enters into it — barley first, and wheat afterwards; Christ in resurrection and then the saints.
WB-w Would the barley bread refer to Paul’s ministry? The barley cake tumbled in; it was irregular in movement, but brought about great results.
JT It is something obtained by exercise; it is not objective but subjective truth. If you take the Creed, or well-known Thirty-nine Articles of Religion, these do not answer to the cake at all. Generally they represent something that may be taken in by the natural mind, but that which is baked does not typify what can be taken in in that way. It is the truth held in faith, for the fire has been applied to it.
AR Would the wheat suggest labouring in the light of Pentecost?
JT I think Gideon’s service indicates that he was considering for quality.
ANW The word to Gideon is: “Jehovah is with thee”; but he is not content that Jehovah is with him — he is concerned that Jehovah be with the people. He says, “If Jehovah be with us”; he has a large view.
JT [p. 115] Although he is working in small quarters and apparently alone, he is evidently working with the people of God in his mind.
APT Gideon has a very small view of himself; he says, “I am the least in my father’s house”. It is good to have a large apprehension of what the saints are to God, and a small apprehension of oneself. He also says, “My thousand is the poorest in Manasseh”.
WB-w I was wondering about the way light comes to us. It says in verse 8, “Jehovah sent a prophet to the children of Israel”. It seems that all the people should have profited by this light, but an angel of Jehovah came to Gideon only. There must be some distinction between the prophet’s coming and the Angel’s coming.
JT Suppose there is a prophetic word at a meeting like this, then it is for everyone present but who among us takes it to heart? Tonight or tomorrow the Lord will be looking on us to see who is taking it to heart. This man had evidently taken things to heart, so that an angel sits under the terebinth and takes account of him.
AAT This is evidently the first mention we have of Gideon.
WGT It appears that the Angel was there in relation to the house of Joash.
JT Yes, he has that house in mind and is going to secure it, but his eye is upon Gideon. The hope of Israel is in him.
WB-w The facts mentioned show that there was a work of God in Gideon.
FHL Do the persons mentioned speak of what is progressive? First a prophet, then an angel, and then Jehovah Himself?
JT It is progress in nearness and intimacy. It says, “Jehovah looked upon him”; a conversation follows, and Gideon proposes to bring his “present”.
BTF Would you take the wine press as representing the influence of the death of Christ, including His love, and the food for the people produced under that influence?
JT I think that is right. Gethsemane is the same idea as the wine press, meaning a place of pressure, the Lord having gone through the most extreme pressure there. Gideon was experiencing something of that.
AP It required patience to work in such limited conditions.
JT We are not of much use unless we begin to work thus. The Lord answered “from the horns of the buffaloes”, (Psalm 22:21). Think of the external limitations and pressure there! And yet He was accomplishing the great work of atonement!
ARS But He was brought into “a large place”. (Psalm 18:19)
AL Gideon was acquainted with the history of Israel.
JT That would show that he read his bible, so to speak; a good example for a young brother to follow. He took account, too, of the character of the enemy; and secured the wheat from the Midianites.
AFM The spirit that animated Gideon was to expand — there were finally three hundred others who were of the same spirit. What a contrast it was to the masses of Israel who were oppressed by the Midianites!
EC You have used the word ‘struggle’ in connection with a new meeting; to what did you refer?
JT To the difficulties we have to go through. Generally things are not easy, but especially in a new [p. 117] meeting.
EG You would want young men like Gideon in that meeting.
JT That is it; to get things on the true foundation — on the “strong place in the ordered manner”.
CAM The enemy is always against something of God that is started.
JT God allows that so that your valour comes to light in the effort you make. In spite of opposition and limitation, you are along with David and the mighty men of valour; and so here, Gideon is the mighty man of valour.
JTJr Does it refer to the work of the Spirit of God in his soul — the power by which he did things, as a man marked by the Spirit?
JT Exactly. He will go on in spite of opposition.
AR His father’s house in Ophrah was his local setting in which he had qualified; now he could be commissioned; it says, “Jehovah looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of Midian”. One right in his local setting becomes profitable universally.
Rem Verse 13 indicates that Gideon felt things keenly: “Ah my Lord, if Jehovah [p. 119] be with us, why then is all this befallen us?”
JT God greatly respects our feelings, if they are the outcome of an unselfish view of things.
CAM The fact that he starts small does not govern the Angel’s vision of Gideon. The incoming of Christ, although outwardly small, results in what is infinitely great.
JT Thus you have to consider all these types with your eye on Christ. This gives buoyancy, for victory is in view. What we are considering is a very beautiful history: you have the appearing of the Angel of Jehovah, and then what he said, namely: “Jehovah is with thee, thou mighty man of valour”. That was a greeting. What respect there was in the Angel’s address: “Thou mighty man of valour”. Gideon would never forget that!
BTF Threshing was only a simple work that could have been done by any strong man; but a mighty man of valour would be one like David going out and conquering Goliath; but you would say that the simple service of threshing was owned of God?
JT It was the motive behind it which God owned. We are told why he was doing it; it was to secure it from the Midianites. That is a very important aspect of the subject of our readings.
ARS Later he defeated the enemy utterly. That is where his great valour is seen.
Ques What is the similarity between Gideon and Joseph?
JT Joseph was conserving the food, as exalted to the greatest place, under the king, in Egypt; that is, he had all the might of Egypt behind him. He is a type of Christ as now in heaven, having all power, and using it in a moral way. One who controls food has great moral power. Gideon, on the other hand, is labouring in the wine press alone, nobody is subservient to him, as far as we can see. He is the least in his father’s house, and here he is threshing wheat in this narrow place. Joseph had no enemy with which to contend; but Gideon has, and overthrows him. He understands the character of the enemy, and begins by securing food from that enemy. Thus Gideon is another type of Christ with regard to food.
WB-w Gideon asks, “Why then is all this befallen us”. — not ‘me’, but “us”. He felt the condition of the people.
JT That is a great feature too — that we feel how the saints are suffering.
AGT He acknowledged it was God’s government, that God had given them into the hand of the Midianites.
JT Yes; he says, “Ah, my Lord, if Jehovah be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where are all his miracles that our fathers told us of, saying, Did not Jehovah bring us up from Egypt? And now Jehovah hath cast us off, and given us into the hand of Midian”. That was his speech. He felt these things, and knew also what had happened before; he was conversant with Scripture, though as yet wanting in faith.
WGT He is given a mission now: “Thou shalt save Israel”.
WB-w He could not only secure provision, but he could present something to Jehovah.
JT That is the next thing. He knows how to present food to God.
AFM He has it to present.
JT Yes, that is a remarkable thing.
HSD It is the act of a priest.
JT That is what comes out. We must not pass over the beautiful touch in verse 14: “Jehovah looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of Midian”. That was the encouraging word. Notice the recurrence of the word ‘Midian’ in verse 16. The present enemy is ever kept in view.
CHH Would this indicate the feeling and exercise of a young brother before he can be of help and a means of supply to the brethren?
JT That is what may be learned from it — secret history with God, before we are used in public service.
HSD Do you connect the thought of “thy might” with originality?
JT I should. It was the kind of might that was seen in the wielding of the flail. I think he must have been a very dexterous thresher.
JTJr He does not commend himself, he leaves it to God to do that.
CAM [p. 120] The very fact of his having wheat to thresh would indicate a long season of exercise. He had sown and he had reaped.
JT He must have watched over his crop carefully, too, and harvested it in spite of the vigilance of the Midianites, showing how patient and yet energetic he was.
CAM Is it not a remarkable thing that when God refers to his might, Gideon immediately alludes to his poverty?
JT No doubt that was his salvation. In his weakness he “became strong”, (Hebrews 11:34).
AFM In this connection Gideon asks for a sign, and obtains a remarkable one, leading him up to the recognition of the Angel of Jehovah.
BTF You were speaking of the comparative value of the food. How do you compare the ministry of Christ risen, with the ministry of Christ ascended?
JT The barley sheaf is Christ risen, typically. The sheaf of first fruits in Leviticus 23 refers, I understand, to barley. The sheaf had been cut but the grain was not detached from the husk. But Christ in heaven is the antitype of the old corn of the land. It was corn carried over from the previous year — denoting the plentifulness of the land.
BTF It would produce an entirely different effect in the soul as one advances to the truth that Christ is ascended, after learning that Christ is risen, would it not?
JT It would. Christ in resurrection is the victory. That is what is presented in the gospel as in Romans; but Christ in heaven is Man in a new place and involves the teaching of Ephesians.
AP Would you give us some help regarding food for God in verses 18 - 21 of the chapter before us?
JT Quality enters largely into it; it is this for which Gideon stands in service; and the three hundred men also, as tested, show they are men of quality.
[p. 121] In thinking of food for God, Gideon says, “If now I have found favour in thine eyes, show me a sign that it is thou who talkest with me. Depart not hence, I pray thee, until I come unto thee, and bring forth my present, and set it before thee”. He is now advancing in the truth. He has lost the sense of his insufficiency, and is taking up a priestly attitude, for he talks about a present, and has confidence to ask Jehovah to wait.
AFM He seems to know what to present: “And Gideon went in, and made ready a kid of the goats, and an ephah of flour in unleavened cakes: the flesh he put in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot, and brought it out to him under the terebinth, and presented it”. There is priestly intelligence and order in all this.
JT It is very beautiful, indicating that if we are to serve and minister a portion of meat to His household, we must first learn how to minister to God.
CAM Malachi 3:10 teaches that a revival and a supply of food from heaven require that the people must bring “the whole tithe into the treasure-house, that there may be food in my house”.
JT Quite so.
APT Gideon speaks with a sense of liberty; he would detain God, but in the recognition of His dignity.
JT Showing holy boldness. “Let us approach therefore with boldness” (Hebrews 4:16); and, “Let us approach with a true heart”. (Hebrews 10:22). That is the principle. It is very beautiful.
AL Is all this the effect of Jehovah’s appearance to Gideon, or of what Jehovah said to him?
JT Both. I think he had been made a worshipper. It is the effect of a presentation on God’s part to us, which gives liberty and draws out the heart to Him. Not only did Gideon have wheat, but he had a kid: “And Gideon went in, and made ready a kid of the goats, and an ephah of flour in unleavened cakes: the flesh he put in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot, and brought it out to him under the terebinth, and presented it”. He presented it; all this is very instructive and touching.
WB-w It is a good thing to ask God to wait for us sometimes.
JT It indicates a knowledge of God. The more you know of God, the more confidence and holy liberty you have in His presence.
AAT According to verse 22, it would seem as if he did not know to whom he was talking.
JT But he did know, intuitively. With the light of the New Testament we can see that he was acting in the intelligence of the divine nature. All that he does is morally right. The man of John 9 corresponds with this.
WGT What Gideon does shows that he was taking into account the Person to whom he was giving the food. He presents it.
JT I think so. The Lord, when here, was not known much as to His Person, but it is remarkable how certain ones who came to Him acted rightly. When God is working in souls they act becomingly, as if the new surroundings, in which they are, impress them.
AP Gideon puts the flesh in a basket and the broth in a pot. These are made articles. Do you think that we should have what answers to them at the Lord’s supper? We should not come empty.
JT These vessels are suitable, and Gideon had them. What strikes you is what he had. In spite of these marauders who were despoiling the people, here is a man who has something; he has food. He has all that is necessary for an offering to God.
AAT He has a good appreciation of God and of His [p. 123] people.
JT He was evidently conscious of the divine Presence and instinctively knew what to do, which is greater than an acquired knowledge of God; like the two at Emmaus who said, “Was not our heart burning in us as he spoke to us on the way”, (Luke 24:32).
AFM This service of Gideon must have been very delightful to God as He watched to its climax.
WB-w He had a kid, in spite of the fact that it says there was “no sustenance”.
AR What is the thought in the laying of the flesh and the unleavened cakes on the rock.
JT It speaks of stability — “The firm foundation of God stands”, (2 Timothy 2:19). We are not on sinking sand here, but on the sure foundation. The figure of a rock is often employed in the Old Testament, the meaning of which is made clear in the New Testament.
WGT He is moving under instruction when he places the present there.
JT The Angel directed saying, “Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes, and lay them upon this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so. And the Angel of Jehovah put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes”. Notice it is this rock. So that as we draw near to God, we better understand what to do. Sometimes when you get up to speak to God you have very little in your soul, but thoughts come to you that you never had before. Here, as Gideon came with his present, the Angel instructs him as to what to do.
WB-w What happened to the broth?
JT I think the broth refers to the essence of the offering. It would be what Christ is essentially in His Person.
WGT That would not be [p. 124] consumed?
JT Well, it was poured out: “Take the flesh and the unleavened cakes, and lay them upon this rock, and pour out the broth. And he did so. And the Angel of Jehovah put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there arose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes”. The broth is poured out; the sentence is full of suggestion.
AFM The broth is brought into evidence in His death, and the fire would refer to the suffering side of it.
JT It would. What He is essentially is there. The One who hung on the cross is the eternal God. It is inscrutable, but there it is!
WGT What does the Angel represent in putting forth the staff?
JT I think the staff alludes to experience. It is that Jehovah had been with him, travelling with him. I think it would be as if God had said, ‘I know all about you; I have been with you all the time’. The staff denotes authority that arises from experience. The place it has with Moses in Exodus helps as to this.
ABP Would Gideon say, in principle, “Thy rod and thy staff”, (Psalm 23: 4)?
JT He would. He would never forget this experience.
AR Would you say a little more about what the Lord is essentially?
JT We must never forget that. Christ has come into the most lowly circumstances, even entering into death, and we are always prone to regard Him in our minds, although perhaps not in our words, as less than He is. His enemies derided Him as on the cross for His apparent weakness, but the centurion, noting the character of His loud cry, said, “Truly this man was Son of God”, (Mark [p. 125] 15:39).
WGT So the apostle says, “Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever”, (Romans. 9:5).
JT You never lose sight of that, so that the Lord raises the question with the disciples: “Who do ye say that I am?” (Matthew 16:15).
AP Do these priestly features qualify one to meet the idolatry in the paragraph that follows in connection with the altar of Baal?
JT They do. Gideon is going through things with God: “And Gideon perceived that he was an angel of Jehovah; and Gideon said, Alas, Lord Jehovah! for because I have seen an angel of Jehovah face to face. And Jehovah said to him, Peace be unto thee: fear not; thou shalt not die. And Gideon built there an altar to Jehovah, and called it Jehovah-shalom”. That is the ground reached by Gideon — ‘Jehovah of peace’ (footnote, verse 24).
AP Is it a principle that affairs must be set right locally, before there can be general service?
JT Quite. Before you take up service in a general way, you must be right locally.
AP It was not until after this that Gideon “blew the trumpet” (verse 34).
RDG What is there in the fact that he built an altar himself, after the rock had been designated as an altar?
JT I think it is to show the progress he had made. Your own altar is to indicate your stature. He is told by God to build the next altar, but with regard to his own altar he has no instructions.
RDG God would take pleasure in the fact that he built it?
JT I think so. God takes delight in the growth of His saints.
JEH He had taken into account that God had said to him, “Peace be unto thee”, and he calls the altar Jehovah-shalom, or Jehovah of peace.
ANW [p. 126] Is not the altar an answer to the appearing rather than to what is said?
JT I think all that he had experienced in his relations with God so far, enters into the altar.
WB-w Referring to the subject of food, would you tell us the difference between Gideon as having the cakes, the kid, and the broth, and Gideon as represented in the barley cake in chapter 7?
JT Well, that is what he was himself. The interpretation is: “This is nothing else save the sword of Gideon, the son of Joash, the man of Israel”. The enemy would be overthrown by a representation of food coming in thus; that is, the barley cake tumbling in. It is a type of Christ risen, but apprehended in the power of the Spirit by faith, for the cake had gone through the process of baking, as we have seen.
HSD So that the food is a weapon?
JT Well, that is what we see here — “the sword of Gideon”. The cake tumbled in, and the tent lay along. It was complete overthrow.
AP It is interesting that the three hundred men, as they are about ready for battle, take victuals into their hands; (chapter 7:8).
JT Exactly. They meet the enemy on this principle of food.
AP It is in their hand; and is the kind of thing that is going to overcome.
AFM They got the victuals from the people. It refers to venison taken in hunting, the same word as used in Joshua 1:11.
Pages 127 - 314 — “New York Readings”, 1933 (Volume 117).