FAMINE IN EGYPT
[p. 146] FAMINE IN EGYPT
Genesis 26:1 - 6; Genesis 41:17-24; Genesis 41:53; Genesis 41:57; Genesis 45:1
JT This famine which occurred in the days of Isaac links on with that of Abram’s time. The account of the famine in Egypt is intended to impress us with its severity, its extent, and its universal bearing. Famines that took place in the land were intended to test those in the land, but the objective of the famine in Egypt was to bring to light the Lord’s people, and to bring them practically into relation with the Lord Himself — the true Joseph. That is why I thought we might read the verse in chapter 45; it shows the result of the famine — the brethren are brought to light and into relation with Christ, typically.
WB-w What came to light, and what was the result of the famine, spiritually, in the days of Abram?
JT It would be a lesson for him, but his experience would also be on our account; as being the father of all them that believe (Romans 4); the result of his experience would extend to all the family of faith, to the end that, however tested we may be, we should not allow our circumstances to govern us, but abide in the place of privilege, i.e., in the land. In Isaac’s case the error of Abram was prevented by God’s direct intervention, showing that if God sets out a principle, He helps His people in later days to be governed by it. He not only shows us what we should be governed by, but helps us to conform to it.
AP What intervention do you see here in chapter 26?
JT It says, “And Jehovah appeared to him and said, Go not down to Egypt: dwell in the land that I shall tell thee of. Sojourn in this land; and I will be with thee and bless thee”. That is an [p. 147] intervention of God to prevent Isaac from taking a false step.
WB-w From going down to Egypt.
AJD What does Egypt represent in Christianity?
JT It is the place of visible and human resources, as over against what the invisible God supplies us with. It is the difference between sight and faith.
ANW That was the thing that Abram had done in error, when he left the land — substituting sight for faith.
JT That is what I thought. The principle had been set out in the earlier experience — that the believer should not leave a divinely given place because of adverse circumstances. Isaac, of course, should have known that; but God forestalls his natural inclination to go down to Egypt, and enables him to keep by right principles, which saved him from doing what his father had done.
CAM So that we not only have experience, but also a word from God as a preservative, in that way.
JT I think we may infer from this scripture and from Isaac’s experience, that although divine lessons are clearly set out, we need divine help in order to profit by them.
WB-w Is not Philistine territory as bad as Egyptian territory?
JT But the former is the land. The Philistine should not be there. Faith disallows and ignores their claim to possess the land; God does not tell Isaac to move away, but says, “Dwell in the land that I shall tell thee of. Sojourn in this land”; he obeyed and dwelt at Gerar.
BTF Do you suppose that Egypt was a lower step than Gerar?
JT I do. Gerar is in “the land”, although the Philistines were there. Their presence does not make it cease to be the land of Isaac’s possession.
ANW What is indicated in Isaac’s going to Abimelech, a Philistine?
JT I should think it was a move of weakness, very much like Abram going to Egypt. Probably Isaac was gravitating in the same direction, but God prevented him.
ARS God said to Isaac, “I will be with thee and bless thee”. That would be a great encouragement to him to keep in the land.
JT Yes; Abram did not get that word; God, no doubt, intended to set out the great lesson in Abram, of which we have spoken. Abram had to suffer like Peter and others, including ourselves, that they and we might learn. God saw to it that Isaac did not suffer through the disadvantage his unbelief had placed him in.
AP Any principle that has been fought for and gained in previous days is brought to our attention in later days through ministry.
JT Yes. That would correspond somewhat with Jehovah’s appearing here to Isaac. In our case it would be God coming in to prevent us from violating a principle, and to enable us to maintain it. It is the lapsing of a thing that we are to be on our guard against. Any great principle brought out by God is apt to lapse amongst us unless we walk in faith. Faith goes back to it and maintains it, as we are helped by the Spirit of God.
WGT Here, God practically repeats the blessing to Isaac which He had promised to Abram, concerning his position in the land.
JT Quite. It is the positive side and should have been a great incentive to him: “Sojourn in this land; and I will be with thee and bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries”, and then He adds: “because that Abraham hearkened to my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws;” so that Abraham as linked on with this position is commended of God. What is said to Isaac would remind him that the great interest shown in him was not on his account only, and would sober him.
CB If God tells us to do a thing, and we do it, He will surely bless us.
JT We shall see that the idea of the testimony is cumulative — God links on the light here with Abraham.
WB-w First principles were with Abraham.
JT God began with him, and he answered to His mind. It does not say here that he went down into Egypt, because it was intended by God to connect the positive side with Abraham as “the father of all them that believe”.
WB-w That is why he says, “... because that Abraham hearkened to my voice”. It is a question of features set out in him at the beginning.
JT The cumulative idea in the testimony is clearly seen here.
CAM Its being cumulative and increasing in that way is most important to see. Stephen, when he touched on various things, had that in mind.
JT How beautifully and powerfully he links the different parts of the testimony together, beginning with Abraham!
AP Is it your thought that Isaac represents a spiritual state that can be appealed to among the people of God?
JT Yes, as one capable of being impressed; so it says, “And Isaac dwelt at Gerar”. It implied obedience to the divine thought.
AJD Does he, in faith, lay hold of what God says?
JT Yes, and is governed by it.
AFM The position of the heavenly man is thus maintained in Isaac. He remains in [p. 150] the land.
ANW God refers to his seed being “as the stars of heaven” in this passage, and does not add: “as the sand is on the sea shore”, (Genesis 22:17) as with Abraham, as if to emphasise the heavenly side of things.
BTF Do we find Isaac falling into the same snare in Gerar that Abram fell into in Egypt?
JT He “went to Abimelech” because of looking at what is seen, but Jehovah appeared to him and prevented him from going further; but then, he denied his wife, which is a solemn thing, showing that he was not on much higher ground in his soul than Abram was in Egypt.
FHL The enemy would seek to maintain this character of evil.
JT It was a very sorrowful thing, but I think the secret was that Isaac went to Abimelech as looking to him for help, the sequel of which was that he denied his wife. Divine intervention, only, prevented him going into Egypt. Who of us could stand, when under pressure, in spite of the light, principles, and object lessons we have, if God did not come in and help us? I am sure that everyone here would acknowledge that aside from divine interventions, we would not be maintained in the path of faith.
AFM The lesson before us will be simplified as we see how Isaac was recovered by the coming in of God.
CAM While we are warned and preserved by God from one danger, it does not mean that there will not be another one to which we may be exposed; we might feel a sense of security, but then some other test will come.
JT The lesson here is in seeing the faithfulness of God coming in to save us. It is the intervention of God for Isaac, we should notice; everyone here would acknowledge that aside from this he could not have stood in many [p. 151] a crisis.
ADJ You mean that light alone will not keep us?
JT Light, right principles, and even a right position — all these things are not sufficient; unless God comes in we shall step aside. I think that is the lesson to be learned here. It is the faithfulness of God coming in to enable us to profit by the lesson He sets out in others.
ANW Would that be worked out in the gospels and the epistles? The gospels set out in perfection what the principle is, and the epistles maintain the principle in us, largely on the negative side, saying, “Go not down to Egypt!”
JT That is right. It is ministry, as has just been remarked, through one and another, by which the Lord comes in to call our attention to what He has provided for us. Hence the importance of a constant ministry.
AP Generations change; see Judges 2:10.
JT Quite. “One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh”, (Ecclesiastes 1:4). Every new generation brings out new necessities and exercises, hence past ministry, in itself, will not suffice. There must necessarily be fresh ministry for every generation.
TA The message to the seven churches in Asia would confirm what you are saying: “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”.
JT There is a suited ministry for each church; if we take the churches as successive history there is a specific ministry for each.
WB-w Isaac feared the enemy, and said to himself, “Lest the men of the place slay me on account of Rebecca”. He was not prepared to lay down his life for her.
JT I think his going to Abimelech, and later denying his wife, are intended to remind us that [p. 152] although God comes in and prevents us from transgressing some great principle, yet our actual state will be exposed and has to be judged.
JTJr The wells which Abraham had dug, the Philistines filled with earth.
JT All that comes out, but what the chapter shows is that Isaac was blest and triumphed in the end, that is the great thing to see. It is all a question of divine intervention — of what God is to us.
JS The land was outwardly in the hands of the Philistines, yet Isaac was to hold it in the faith of his soul.
JT It says first, “the land that I shall tell thee of” and then, “this land”.
AP The moment he took it up he began to prosper.
WB-w Would the thought of the recovery of the wells correspond with the recovery of the truth of the presence of the Spirit in our day?
JT I think the chapter as a whole shows how obedience to God and to His word, when we might have turned aside, brings in blessing, although the state we are actually in is exposed. God will not let us off in this respect, for He loves us too well to do that. Although God appears to us and helps us, we have to go through the consequence of our unbelief, in the faithfulness of God.
BTF How would you apply the denying of his wife to the church?
JT It was a dropping down to the level of the family when Isaac said Rebecca was his sister, instead of saying she was his wife. We lose sight of the church if we act in that manner.
With regard to the famine in chapter 41, I think what we should observe, as already said, is the great stress that is laid upon the severity and extent of it, so that it fits in with the present time peculiarly.
AFM Of course this famine is in Egypt,
[p. 153] in contrast to being in the land. There would be a point in that, I suppose.
JT There is a great deal in that. It is really in Egypt with Joseph there, not the Egypt that Abram went to.
JS It is, rather, Christ exalted amongst the Gentiles, is it not?
JT Quite so. We widen out here to the present position of Christendom.
AR It says, “And there was dearth in all lands;” then it says, “And all countries came into Egypt to Joseph, to buy grain, because the famine was grievous on the whole earth”. Is that what you have in mind?
JT That helps us to see what is in view: God is now looking out on all countries, that is the idea of the type, in view of bringing the brethren of Christ to light. All the great distress abroad in the world at the present time is intended of God to bring true Christians into evidence, and into practical relation with Christ, as His brethren. The object in view is very great!
WGT Psalm 105:16,23 indicates that in this famine God had Jacob and his family in view: “And he called for a famine upon the land; he broke the whole staff of bread”. “And Israel came into Egypt ... .”.
CAM Who would Pharaoh represent?
JT In the main, he represents the Supreme. Of course, it is not always so, but primarily he represents the responsible element. He is the ruler of Egypt, and in giving account of what he saw in his dreams he goes more into detail than the record given by the Spirit in the beginning of the chapter, which shows that he was impressionable. If you compare the description of the dreams the Spirit gives in the beginning of the chapter, with what Pharaoh himself relates of them to Joseph, you will [p. 154] see that he was greatly impressed with the severity of what he saw in the lean kine and in the thin and parched ears.
CAM It is very interesting to see that God allows the dreams to be told by Pharaoh, evidently to indicate his feelings regarding what he saw.
JT I think there was design in that, to remind us that if we are to get relief, we must feel things. Pharaoh felt the thing, and did not minimise what he saw when speaking to Joseph.
AFM It says, “It came to pass in the morning, that his spirit was troubled”, (chapter 41:8).
ANW The lean fleshed kine were “such as I never saw in all the land of Egypt for badness”.
JT Attention is called to his impressionableness. I believe the secret of blessing lies in being impressed by the nature of the affliction or discipline we are passing through. Its very severity portends that God has a special blessing for us in it. It is a feeling people that God respects.
BTF Was the end in view that Israel and his sons should go to Joseph?
JT Yes. The pressure brought out the people of God.
AFM In what way did it bring them out?
JT Well, the next chapter says, “Jacob saw that there was grain in Egypt, and Jacob said to his sons, Why do ye look one upon another? And he said, Behold, I have heard that there is grain in Egypt; go down thither and buy grain for us from thence, in order that we may live, and not die” (Genesis 42:1,2); and in the following chapter we read that “the famine was grievous in the land. And it came to pass, when they had finished eating the grain which they had brought from Egypt, that their father said to them, Go again, buy us a little food” (verses 1,2). Now, there I think you have the people of [p. 155] God, in the responsible element, feeling the famine and the necessity for provision for the house.
JS Jacob spoke according to the light he had; he knew where the grain was.
JT The sequel shows that what God had in mind in the famine was to bring all His people into evidence. There are thousands and thousands of God’s people mixed up with the world, and when things are prosperous they do not think much about God, but go on with the things of this world, then, when pressure comes God uses it to exercise them and they begin to think of Him. There had been reduction in Jacob’s mind, because you will notice in the second proposal that he says, “Buy us a little food”; he would be content with less than hitherto. That is what God is aiming at amongst us — that we should be content with less than what has been customary with us.
AFM You would mean less of temporal food and things in general?
JT We are speaking now of what is external, and how we become ready to accept less than we have hitherto had. Jacob does not use the expression “little” as to the first visit, but in relation to the second one. It is the idea of reduction — God is reducing His people so that they might be cut from their moorings in this world; the more we expand in this world, the more like the world we become. Except we understand and reach to the result of the affliction, we are exposed; we need to see that the more we are reduced outwardly, the more it is open to us to expand inwardly. The apostle says, “Let your heart also expand itself”, (2 Corinthians 6:13).
AP They were satisfied with a little on their side, but from Joseph’s side they got a great deal.
JT Yes. But do you not think it is important to begin to feel small? If there is a heavy hand upon us, as there is today through this world-wide [p. 156] business depression, it is well to begin to feel small, for God does not intend His people to be big in this world. Smallness in a material sense makes room for God. In Andrew’s mind (John 6:9), littleness was the difficulty.
AP Many of the people of God, even those more or less on spiritual lines, are content with spiritual smallness, while aiming at material bigness.
JT The little boy in John 6 indicates the line on which the food supply is acquired.
ANW The “little power” referred to in Philadelphia (Revelation 3:8) is not condemnatory, is it?
JT It is commendable that there was even that.
AJD All this is to make us more like the Lord Himself. There is no indication that He acquired anything material in this world.
AR Do both material and spiritual prosperity go together?
JT Not always, although John says to Gaius, “Beloved, I desire that in all things thou shouldest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospers”, (3 John 2). There is balance there. But there is the possibility of the most spiritual being “abased” and “hungry”, (Philippians 4:12).
WGT Joseph made great demands on his brethren, dealing with them “roughly”, and when they went back to Jacob and made these things known to him, he took them to heart.
JT That is the next thing to learn. If brethren are set in movement toward Christ, they are not going to be received on their own terms. If the Lord is delivering His people through the present pressure, He makes the terms, and hence the rigour of His dealings with us; He loves us too well to let sin remain unjudged in us. In the first interview, Joseph’s brethren began to talk about the way they had treated him. In chapter 42:21 - 24 they say, “We are indeed guilty concerning our brother, whose [p. 157] anguish of soul we saw when he besought us, and we did not hearken; therefore this distress is come upon us. And Reuben answered them, saying, Did I not speak to you, saying, Do not sin against the lad? But ye did not hearken; and now behold, his blood also is required. And they did not know that Joseph understood, for the interpreter was between them. And he turned away from them, and wept”. They are not allowed to get off. If we are under the discipline of God, we must assuredly go through deep exercise; indeed, our whole history comes up in relation to the why and the wherefore of the particular pressure which has come upon us.
WB-w You mean the murder of Christ has yet to be answered for by this world?
JT Yes, or anything corresponding to it. How are Christians who are linked with the world treating the testimony of Christ and His people, who, as loving Him, keep His commandments? All this necessarily comes up, so that there must be a going through corresponding exercises and self-judgment before God.
JS Joseph’s brethren had to go over all their path of deflection in thorough self-judgment.
JT Yes. The Lord loves us too well to let us off. We must let the word of God search us, if He is to make Himself known to us. The Psalmist says, “Search me, O God, and know my heart; prove me, and know my thoughts; and see if there be any grievous way in me; and lead me in the way everlasting”, (Psalm 139:23,24).
FHL His brethren recognise Joseph as the saviour of the world, and in the light of that they would feel the necessity of being right before him.
JT They see that he is able to provide, but they do not yet know who he is. The interpreter is between them and him (chapter 42:23), which is to be noted. Applying this to the Lord Jesus, why should I not [p. 158] understand Him? — why the need of an interpreter between Him and me? Joseph understands, but they do not; they are in a state of ignorance. That is much like the Lord’s people are today, as emerging from the world, the sphere of self-will.
CAM Job needed an interpreter at one time, but eventually he saw the Lord and reached the end.
JT The analogy in Job 33:23 is very striking: “If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand”. But here the interpreter was between Joseph and his brethren. Joseph, of course, understood what they said, despite their ignorance of this fact.
ARS What does an interpreter stand for in this case?
JT He represents distance, and all because of ignorance.
TA The other disciples should not have needed John to say, “It is the Lord”, (John 21:7).
AFM Do you think that distress should mark those emerging from the religious world towards Christ? One could not rightly take up the thing lightly: if we apprehended the ruin of the church and our part in it, this would cause us distress.
JT I am sure that is what God respects. It is a feeling people that God regards — “the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done”, (Ezekiel 9:4). The sons of Jacob were not marked by feeling, as Pharaoh and Joseph were. The latter had, earlier, gone through “anguish of soul”; but these ten brothers were destitute of feeling, hence Joseph was severe in his treatment of them. They had sinned and had not judged themselves. Reuben points this out to them: “Did I not speak to you, saying, Do not sin against the lad? But ye did not hearken”. How many times the faithful word is brought near to us, and we do not hearken but remain in [p. 159] our hardness?
CAM Saul of Tarsus was like that; he continued his opposition in spite of the wonderful testimony of Stephen.
CB The sorrow we cause the Lord when not walking in the truth should come home to us.
JT We all should learn to feel things more. God Himself leads the way in feeling, as we may see in Genesis 6:6.
APT Joseph says: “Does my father yet live?” (Genesis 45:3). That is the first question after making himself known to his brethren. A little later in that chapter Joseph says, “Haste and go up to my father”, etc. (verse 9). There is the suggestion of the Father and Son in these statements, which God is bringing before us now.
JT Judah’s speech (chapter 44), corresponds with what we are saying, and indeed leads immediately to Joseph’s making himself known to his brethren. He spoke to Joseph most touchingly of his father and Benjamin. It is brokenness of spirit and right feeling that God values.
JEH The sufferings of Joseph, as often remarked, refer, in type, to the sufferings of the Lord Jesus.
ARS Joseph’s brethren, in their hardness, took the place of being “honest” men; the probing brought out that they were the opposite of that.
JT He did not weep in their presence, at first, but when the time for the final disclosure came he could not control himself; which shows the affections were there, but pent up, for Joseph was indeed a feeling man.
AP Do you think that we arrive, through discipline, at some sense of the sufferings that the Lord went through, so that we may not be asleep as to them, as the disciples were in Gethsemane?
JT Quite so. He was heard because of His piety. In the “strong crying and tears” (Hebrews 5:7) of Gethsemane,
[p. 160] the Lord leads the way for us with regard to feeling.
BTF Would you say that Joseph was acting in a priestly way in dealing with his brethren?
JT I think he was; he knew what to do, and was very skilful in bringing them to a state suitable for the disclosure he made.
WB-w Regarding believers coming out to the Lord today, it is a good thing to see them moved by feeling as to their state and past associations. They thus show reality.
CN Do you think that all this which Joseph forces his brethren to go through was to effect the brotherly spirit in them?
JT That was it — to bring out right elements that were there, also to break down their hardheartedness. Reuben is mentioned in chapter 42; he had tried to modify the action of his brethren against Joseph, but they would not hearken. As was said, testimony after testimony comes to believers who are linked up with the world, but they do not heed. Psalm 95:8 says, “Harden not your heart”.
FHL Would you say a word about Benjamin, who wept with Joseph later on?
JT Attention is called to him; he is the overcomer who retained true affection for Joseph. He is one of the feeling elements. Pharaoh, Joseph, Jacob, and Benjamin were all feeling men. Both Reuben and Judah had a little feeling, but all the rest were hard. That is what had to be dealt with — hardness of heart.
AFM Do you think that Reuben had largely recovered himself as evidenced in this statement of feeling regarding Joseph?
JT God is so fair that He brings out every good feature that may be in us.
AFM Judah recovered himself fully, later.
JT Quite so. They both come into evidence in [p. 161] that way.
WGT The journey of the children of Israel through the desert is lengthened to forty years on account of their hardness of heart.
JT But God says later, “And I will take away the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh” (Ezekiel 11:19), meaning an impressionable heart.
JEH Do you think that the bulk of Christians are characteristically hard-hearted?
JT I believe that anyone remaining in the world, who professes to be a Christian, is hard-hearted. The world has rejected and put Christ to death, and anyone who is a friend of the world is an enemy of God; such a one is in a serious position.
JS The present pressure in the world should have a softening effect, and at the same time bring to light the people of God, and bring them to Christ. Is not that the great object of the moment?
JT That is what God is doing at the present time. The universal character of this famine is in keeping with current conditions in the world. The Lord’s present position in heaven and His work among the Gentiles, as characteristic of the dispensation, would lead us to look for special efforts to bring all His people to light before the end.