THE WORD OF GOD AND THE PRIESTHOOD OF CHRIST
[p. 206] THE WORD OF GOD AND THE PRIESTHOOD OF CHRIST
JT The apostle and high priest of our profession having been touched in this section open up the way for the word of God and the priesthood of Christ. They go together. So that the subject for this reading would be the word of God and the priesthood of Christ; the word of God calling for hearkening, and the priesthood intended to help us in hearkening and in obedience. The two chapters so far, that is chapters 3 and 4, are one in this sense; it is the same subject only that Hebrews 3 is more severe as to hearkening and its consequences. Hebrews 4 is less severe and points out that we may be near to the accomplishment of an end and yet miss it. So that it is, “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you might seem to have failed of it”. So that what is alluded to is more negative in chapter 4, for God would Himself feel that we should miss what is so infinitely important, namely the matter of entering into the divine rest; yet we may come short of it because of not hearkening to the word, not mixing it with faith. It is said, “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you might seem to have failed of it. For indeed we have had glad tidings presented to us, even as they also; but the word of the report did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard”. Not being mixed with faith; so that the mind may become active in taking in the mind of God but void of faith, it fails.
ABP Do you connect the ministry of the word with the apostleship of Christ?
[p. 207] JT That is what I thought, and the high priesthood is the support of those who are spoken to, so that they may not come short.
ATD Is this rest a present thing?
JT It is, only what is stressed is that it remains. That is, it is open. It is still an open matter. The door is not closed. “There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God”. And it is said that we who have believed do enter into it. There are some who do, and the question is how many and whether any might fail of it, so that, “If they shall enter into my rest”, Hebrews 4:3. That is a question which implies a negative, “although the works had been completed from the foundation of the world. For he has said somewhere of the seventh day thus, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works: and in this again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remains that some enter into it”. The matter is dealt with very cautiously and skilfully, and yet firmly as to the possibility of missing a great opportunity in failing to hearken to the word, in failing in faith.
AAT “The word of the report”, Hebrews 4:2 — is that the report that the spies brought down?
JT That is right. It is the report that they brought down, because it was a true one. All of them fell in with that, with the report that the spies brought down. They are all in it, and now the fault is that some fail in not hearkening to the report.
AI Would this report that you are now speaking of connect with present ministry?
JT Yes; it is a question of what is ministered; what God is saying; we get help in referring to the historical reference in Numbers 13. The twelve spies had been sent up by Moses and they brought down a true report, but presently someone came in and added something that seemed to deny or set aside the [p. 208] general report.
AAT Is it not remarkable that that report came through ministry, through the spies, and not right through Moses?
JT They were really witnesses of the land. They were witnesses of what they reported. It was not a matter of mere hearing, something they heard. They saw; they brought down the grapes.
AR How do you link that thought up with the authority of Moses, or the authority of Christ as today?
JT The primary commission, for it was a commission of twelve men, was sent out by Moses and authority was attached to it. “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you might seem to have failed of it. For indeed we have had glad tidings presented to us, even as they also; but the word of the report did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard”. It was mixed with faith in some but not generally.
Ques Would refusing the report mean they refused Moses?
JT It really amounted to the authority of God, because that is what is in mind: the apostle and high priest of our profession who is Christ, and chapter 3 shows that the Speaker is God.
APT Does that mean it is not only what is said but who says it?
JT Just so. That is the point in this whole epistle. “God having spoken in many parts and in many ways formerly to the fathers in the prophets, at the end of these days has spoken to us in the person of the Son”, Hebrews 1:1, or merely “in Son”. That is God Himself speaking only in the character of Son, and that is what this chapter takes up.
ANW It is not exactly the report, but the word of the report — what God would convey in that report.
JT Just so, “the word of the report”.
JAP Is it interesting that there were two versions, but the Spirit of God calls the one that Caleb and Joshua gave “the report”? Would you say something about that?
JT That is a good point, too. The report is, it says, well-accredited, accredited by witnesses who saw the things that they reported. Therefore, the whole matter turns on the authority behind Christianity, for Christianity is in mind, but Christianity over against Judaism. Through Judaism was the attack. The word came through the report, but there were those who denied it, or if they did not deny it they did not mix it with faith.
TEH Would the writer of the epistle to the Hebrews be a prince in that sense? Every one of the twelve that went up was a prince. I was wondering if the writer of the Hebrews would be like a prince in character.
JT Just so. The characteristic one would be Joshua whose name was changed to a name that indicated ‘Jehovah, the Saviour’. That is, it is really our Saviour we are dealing with; the One who is speaking is our Saviour.
FSC Would God taking hold of the seed of Abraham link the spiritual and the natural together?
JT Yes; it is to bring out the humanity of the Lord, and that His deity is not altered by it. The addition of His humanity does not alter His deity, because the beginning of chapter 3 says, “For he has been counted worthy of greater glory than Moses, by how much he that has built it has more honour than the house. For every house is built by someone; but he who has built all things is God. And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house, as a ministering servant, for a testimony of the things to be spoken after; but Christ, as Son over his house, whose house are we, if indeed we hold fast”, Hebrews 3:3 - 6. So that the point is that the Speaker is God and the Builder is [p. 210] God. All that is to bring out what the Israelites were doing in refusing to hearken to the word, in failing to hearken. They were failing to enter into the rest of God, for that is what was involved. The rest was to be entered into, not on the ground of promise only but of hearkening to the word.
ABP If authoritative ministry is given as bearing on a matter and there is uncertainty in relation to it after the ministry is given, is it a safe course to follow to obey the truth?
JT I would think that. It is a question of who the speaker is, and there can be no question, therefore, of what he says. What they are up against is what has been said and who says it, not simply the spies but the apostle here. The beginning of the section is on the apostleship of Christ, and therefore it is that the One who says it is pointed out as having built all things, and of course God did that. God did that and, therefore, God is the Speaker, hence, the serious responsibility of not hearkening. It is not simply refusing it but not hearkening.
ABP The indication of lack of faith in those who heard the Lord in Nazareth is that they began to use human reasoning.
JT Quite so. We can well discern, in looking back on the history, what was involved in the way that Christianity was spurned in the early days and hence the entire rejection of the Jewish system, because that is what really happened after this epistle. The epistle implied the word and the One who spoke it; hence, there is no forgiveness in Hebrews. Sin is wilful.
CAM It seems to be a very large matter, because in verse 4 it says in connection with God’s rest on the seventh day, “from all his works”. Faith seems to connect all that immense matter in the beginning that you alluded to in your prayer with these matters that we are speaking [p. 211] of now.
JT The linking up of that with the book of Exodus is significant, because it is a question of Moses, and the Lord makes the issue between the Jews and himself, and between them and Moses, identical. The Lord says, “But if ye do not believe his writings, how shall ye believe my words?” John 5:47. That is, He links up His own authority, God’s authority, with Moses, because it is a question of not only what is spoken but what is written.
CAM It gives you a great sense of what a mighty thing this matter of faith is, to be able to link up these things spiritually, does it not?
JT It is a manifest fact here that “we have had glad tidings presented to us, even as they also”. Notice, it is not simply information or history but glad tidings, as if God were to couch His thoughts in that way, make them attractive, fitting in with the evangelical feature of the inauguration of Christianity. It was a question of glad tidings. This section is not simply the glad tidings of our salvation. That is mentioned earlier in the epistle, but the glad tidings about heaven, by those who witnessed the thing.
JAP Peter says, “Simon Peter, bondman and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have received like precious faith”, 2 Peter 1:1, and then later, “use diligence to make your calling and election sure”, 2 Peter 1:10. Does that call for exercise on my part to be in the good of what Peter is saying about partaking of the divine nature?
JT Just so. He says in his first epistle that those who preached the glad tidings to you preached it by the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven. The Lord Jesus preached it as come down from heaven, but the Spirit is seen as sent down from heaven. He says, “those who have declared to you the glad tidings by the Holy Spirit, sent from heaven”, 1 Peter 1:12. I think it directs us to the feelings of [p. 212] God, the feelings He has, the tender feelings He has in making known His mind, that He couches it in glad tidings and in the preaching by authoritative persons by the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven.
CN Could the assembly in any way be regarded as God’s rest? I was thinking of the revelation to Peter, and the Lord saying on that account, “On this rock I will build my assembly, and hades’ gates shall not prevail against it”, Matthew 16:18. I just wondered if, in thinking of God’s rest, the assembly could be looked at in a typical way.
JT The assembly is constituted in that way, as affording provisional shelter and conditions for the thoughts of God. What are hidden in the form of promise or purpose are now made provisional by the Spirit come down from heaven. The things are made provisionally available in the reality of them by the Spirit, for He is the earnest of the inheritance. The things are made substantially available in an order of things which we call the assembly. It is such, it is so constituted as to make available the promises and purposes of God in a tangible way to us. I think that is the way it works out — the tangibility of the things that have been in promise or in purpose are now available to us in this institution called the assembly, because of what is said of it when the revelation was made to Peter, how intact it would be in carrying down these things in a provisional way until the time of the things being completed when the Lord comes.
CN So that the highest order of speaking would be expected from that vessel, would you say?
JT I think from the way it is presented to us in the epistles, the apostolic epistles, and again in Revelation we can see how trustworthy it is, just as the ark was of old; how trustworthy it was for the purpose for which it was made, to carry things through. So it is that the assembly may be depended upon to [p. 213] carry things through in a tangible sense, in a provisional way until the time comes for the absolute fulfilment of them; for the rest of God is in heaven, of course, for us, but the thing is available to us while we are moving on to the light.
DP Is the entering into His rest a collective idea?
JT I think what we are speaking of is a collective idea. It is formed of the saints. It is important to bear in mind what they are, as typified in the material that formed the ark. It was made of acacia — that kind of wood, reliable wood, for a certain purpose, but presently going on into an eternal state of things, because things changed. After the tabernacle we have another order of things, but the same idea, in Solomon’s building. It represented the full or complete thing; Solomon’s building contemplated the complete thing in type, whereas the tabernacle was a type of the durability, the lasting character of the thing, and how available and near it was brought to the saints.
CAM Referring to what you said about the assembly and what we reach in the assembly, is it not remarkable that the first rest alluded to in the scriptures in the beginning of Genesis was reached when God brought in manhood? The rest in Numbers was the heavenly inheritance. Both these things are in the assembly, are they not?
JT The rest in Exodus is connected with God Himself being refreshed. It is connected with the refreshment of God. That adds to what we are saying, that the provisional state of things is said to be in the Spirit, because He is the earnest of the thing, the earnest of the inheritance. He is the earnest of everything, whether promise or purpose. He makes good everything, but there is added in Exodus to what is said in Genesis, that God was refreshed on the seventh day, which would point now to what is available for us provisionally, the [p. 214] idea of refreshment; that there is refreshment, for instance, at a time like this; as we start in we are poor in a way and disjointed and we are really not fit to form an intact position. It takes time to merge so that the Spirit gets His place amongst us, and as He does the thing becomes fixed. It is a permanent thing provisionally. This all adds to what God is in His consideration for us, how He considers for us in the little while that enters into the passage from Egypt to Canaan. There is no time lost.
APT As they came out of Egypt, although they did come out in rank, there was the possibility that they carried a lot with them that God was not pleased with. That is the danger. One feels oneself the inability by not taking the word of God to allow it to cut off all that we should not bring with us, in order to have right function.
JT Quite so. Then as you say, they went out arrayed five in a rank. That is so much to the good, but it was only very little as against the conditions they had to meet, so that the time of passing through the Red Sea itself and what happened after that was always, as it were, settling in. There was so much to be contended with that needed to settle in. Then you have the great stress laid on keeping the commandments in Exodus 15, and the statutes and judgments, and added to that what would tend to buoyancy and victory but all preliminary before we reach the final thought of organisation at Mount Sinai. We have to wait for certain things. Therefore, the twelve springs of water and the seventy palm trees added greatly in the settling-in condition. Then what follows after that is the manna coming down from heaven.
Rem They encamped there near the water.
JT They did, but they went on after that. After the manna they went on and encamped in the wilderness of Sin that is before Sinai. They encamped there and the battle of Rephidim took place there;
[p. 215] that is to say, to make room for the Spirit. The Spirit was not yet fully recognised typically, but that battle seemed to settle it. God says, I am going to settle this matter of distraction. From generation to generation I will make war with Amalek. It is the settling-in that we are slow in forming in our meetings. We often wait for five or ten minutes and there is no need for it. There is the lack of settling-in and the enjoyment of assembly conditions is deferred to that extent.
TEH Would the grace of the High Priest in that way aid us in our desires to be amenable to the word?
JT Just so. I think of the journey from Egypt to the Red Sea, before they reached the Red Sea and crossed it, and then after they crossed it — the many things that took place there, particularly the twelve wells of water and the seventy palm trees. They encamped there. That was a place of settling-in comfortably and happily; so that we are together not under the rays of the sun which would tend to irritability and impatience. We are not settled in yet, because we have just left conditions that are not assembly conditions, and this settling down by the water, twelve wells of water and seventy palm trees, would imply refreshment and shelter, and the sense that we are gaining; we are not losing.
CAM Otherwise we might miss the rest altogether if we did not come into the sense of that.
JT Just so. We have to come into it gradually, and hence the necessity of coming in time, settling-in in time so as to give opportunity to the Spirit to form, to settle in.
Rem You referred in your prayer to “when the hour was come”.
JT That hour had to await in the wilderness journey what was before Mount Sinai when the law was given, because we must come under law. We [p. 216] must come under the thought of obedience; I mean, the thought of the law. Obedience must be there, and it takes time to come into it, because we come out of conditions that are not marked by obedience even in our households. There is very much contrary to obedience. All that militates against the provisional state of things that God has provided for us in the meantime before we get into Canaan. And now Paul or whoever wrote this epistle is saying there are some who did not enter in; that the time for entering in is still ahead, and properly the time for entering is now; it is still ahead, but the assembly affords the provisional time.
AI Have you in mind in any way to link up the thought of the rest of God with the first day of the week?
JT Quite so. We come into it. We that believe do enter; not shall enter but do enter. That is the provisional side. The thing is applicable, but as regards the actual final thought it is yet future. We who believe do enter into it; therefore, the first day of the week brings in authority, every week. But it takes time to come into it and I believe that is why the Lord is so prominent in the beginning; it is the Lord’s supper, the Lord’s day.
AI In that way, do we not need to come under the lordship of Christ during the six days?
JT We do. That is the fellowship. The fellowship implies that in chapter 5 of 1 Corinthians. The lordship of Christ is asserted there, “For also our passover, Christ, has been sacrificed; so that let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with leaven of malice and wickedness, but with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth”, 1 Corinthians 5:7,8. All that comes in before the Red Sea is crossed, the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth; therefore, the settling-in in Mount Sinai or Horeb is a fixed state of things and the ordering of the camp [p. 217] is there.
APT To follow that up, is the position after they left Egypt and also the truth here in Hebrews a crisis? Is that the idea? There is something hidden that if we do not get now we will lose it completely.
JT That is the idea. You come to the very point of it and you miss it. Israel had to be reminded of that constantly: to keep to the truth, and when they came to the time of the spies that was the test for them all. The test became so severe that God says. You are not going to go in at all. You are going to fall in the wilderness.
ABP What is the force of this word ‘mixed’, being mixed with faith; not being received with faith but being mixed?
JT The idea of mixed constitutionally. Even in eating, the saliva, if one may be simple about it, is the same idea. It affords means of what happens down below after the eating. You have the jaw bones; they are for mastication, but then there is something after that. The stomach is another thing. The jaw bones and the stomach were to be the priests’ food. They were given to the priests because the priests had to lead in all these things. The people have to hear the law at their mouth; the maw and the jaw bones; the power of mastication and the power of digestion — the power really of assimilation. The stomach is an organ of assimilation, so that the system absorbs and builds up itself in that way. That is what is so much needed.
ANW Are there not two sides in that way in regard of the Spirit? He is given on the one hand but received on the other. God’s word is from His side but receiving is on our side.
JT Just so; mixing it with faith. Paul gives credit to the Corinthians saying, “But I make known to you, brethren, the glad tidings which I announced to you, which also ye received, in which also ye stand,
[p. 218] by which also ye are saved (if ye hold fast the word which I announced to you as the glad tidings), unless indeed ye have believed in vain. For I delivered to you, in the first place, what also I had received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures”, 1 Corinthians 15:1 - 3. They were set up rightly because they had received the thing — as it were, taken it in and appropriated it in the sense of digestion. Therefore, if anything happened after that it became very serious.
ABP Those who said, we will hear thee again on this matter, lost it.
JT Just so. How many take that attitude even in regard to what is ministered, not only through the gospel but what is ministered amongst us. That is what the writer is aiming at, that the thing should be received, mixed with faith.
FSC Chapter 11 does not mention faith at all in the wilderness.
JT That is to show what the thing really means. It takes you all the way. It is faith in display. It is that grand thing called faith early here as seen in display in chapter 11. It is seen in display in persons who are glorifying it. The idea is glorified. It is hardly spoken of in the Old Testament at all. You only get it about once, but in the New Testament it is very much spoken of, because God is setting it up in display, the thing called faith.
DP Would the entering into rest here require soul history on our side?
JT Yes; it is a question of whether you do, because that is the idea. You are doing it, then you know something of what it means. How often we have noted the great recurrence of the word ‘rest’ in the hymns of Mr. Darby. “Rest of the saints above, Jerusalem of God”, (74:1). It is one who had entered into it on the way. It is the provisional side that is the test, because you have the thing really in the [p. 219] earnest. You get it by the way. Hence, the arrangements of the week, I believe, are intended to furnish us with the thing itself, which God has for us every week; so that we can say we do enter in. It is not a matter of the mind or what we speak of at the readings, but we who do enter in.
JAP In Exodus 24:4 Moses rises early in the morning and sets up the altar and the twelve pillars. Should they be in our minds on the first day of the week? When we get up we should think of these things.
JT Just so; getting up early in the morning — you always find it with great men. Perhaps we do not get up early enough on the Lord’s day. Perhaps that is the trouble. It is very often ‘a long lie and a tea-tray breakfast’. Somewhere they say something like that. That would mean we do not enter in; but it is we who do believe enter in; those who really do it. That is mixing the truth with faith.
TEH Would David be a man who would help us in our apprehension of it? God had given him rest from all his enemies, and he went in and sat before the Lord.
JT Just so. That is where you get the greatest tributes in the way of title from David to God, at that particular time, when he went in and sat before Jehovah. He says, Thou art that God; there is no other, 2 Samuel 7:28. The New Testament says, “To us there is one God, the Father of whom all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”, 1 Corinthians 8:6. It is when we get into that, you know, that we are able to speak freely and eloquently by the Spirit of the names of divine Persons. “No one, speaking in the power of the Spirit of God, says, Curse on Jesus; and no one can say, Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit”, 1 Corinthians 12:3.
CN As regards the word “not being mixed with faith” there are a few verses in Psalm 119. “Remember the word for thy servant, upon which thou hast caused me to hope. This is my comfort in mine affliction; for thy word hath quickened me. The proud have derided me beyond measure: I have not declined from thy law. I remembered thy judgments of old, O Jehovah, and have comforted myself. Burning indignation hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked who forsake thy law. Thy statutes have been my songs in the house of my pilgrimage. I have remembered thy name, O Jehovah, in the night, and have kept thy law. This I have had, because I have observed thy precepts”, Psalm 119:49 - 56. I just thought that this furnishes the ground according to Hebrews for entering in: believing the word. They did not enter in because of unbelief. Does that help?
JT Quite so. The distinction that has been made between chapter 3 and chapter 4 is suggestive in that sense, because chapter 3 is severity. You have such expressions as in verse 7, “Wherefore, even as says the Holy Spirit, To-day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts”, Hebrews 3:7,8. God is bringing up historical things that refer to severity and the terribleness of our disobedience. He is bringing up these things, but in chapter 4 it says, “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you might seem to have failed of it”. That is, you are coming almost to the edge of it and you may miss it. You are coming down to a certain softness in His dealings with us and He is bringing in the priesthood at the end of the chapter to help us appropriate what He is saying. It is grace, I think. So that we are enjoined in Hebrews 4:16, “Let us approach therefore with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and find grace for seasonable help”. Chapter 4 is a tender appeal to us and yet a [p. 221] firmness of warning, because we may come to the very edge of the thing and miss it.
AAT Holding fast the confession — what is that?
JT That you do not let it go. I suppose the Jewish Christians were in danger of letting it go.
Rem The word of God as seen in Hebrews 4:12 — is that to regulate us? “For the word of God is living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart”.
JT It is like the cutting up of the offerings, the cutting up of the pieces of the offerings, bringing out the holy inwardness of them. Now the word of God affects us that way. That is intended. It is intended for it, to let it have its own way with us and the character of a two-edged sword for the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. It is a process which belongs to the flaying or slaughtering of the creature, the offering; so that the motives behind the thing are discerned, what motives are influencing us in the offerings.
Rem You have to be transparent.
JT Quite so.
ANW Would you say a word as to how far infirmity goes in the matter? The high priest is in relation to infirmity, whereas according to chapter 3 it is a wicked heart of unbelief which is not supported by the high priest.
JT I think that brings up much, first as to the word in verse 12, and then the high priest. “Let us therefore use diligence to enter into that rest, that no one may fall after the same example of not hearkening to the word. For the word of God is living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to the division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart”. All this would enter into a meeting like this, or a meeting for the gospel, or a meeting for ministry. It is all a question of the word, the action of the word, the word of God applied as we are ready to listen. And then the support we get from the Lord at the same time in verse 14: “Having therefore a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast the confession. For we have not a high priest not able to sympathise with our infirmities, but tempted in all things in like manner, sin apart. Let us approach therefore with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy, and find grace for seasonable help”. It seems to me that chapter 4 is to lead us on in the ministry, or in such a time as the present to what God is saying; to lead us on in it and discern that God is gracious with us, and making things, as it were, easy for us if we accept the state of things that we discern by the word, and then the liberty to approach; that we are made sensible as the time goes on to the thought of approach. “Let us approach”. God is looking for that. It is leading up to chapter 10 where we have the entrance into the holiest spoken of. This is really leading up to that. It is a question of the action of the word on us and the gracious support of the Lord Jesus. He is sympathetic with us so that we might draw near to God.
Ques Why is it called the throne of grace?
JT Because it is what is needed as we have said already. It is the graciousness of God in dealing with us seeing we have come so near in the truth of Christianity. Why should we go back again to Judaism? Why should we do it? Therefore, he brings in the idea of grace. Really, we are on the same platform as we are in Romans. “Grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord”, Romans 5:21. Here it is not [p. 223] eternal life but rather that we should be in the service of God and enter into God’s rest.
TEH These saints had been better off in earlier days. How do you account for their slipping back so far?
JT That is what the epistle was written for, and the severity of the words in it. They are very severe. We should see it in chapter 6. If we sin wilfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth there is no hope for us. God touches on severity. But in this chapter He is rather tender and speaking to us who have already heard the word of God and tasted of the good of the word of God: do not stop short of it. Go on to it. It is not far away. It is very near. That is the way of it, and it ought to appeal to all the young people lest you might slip away.
Ques Is it something we might have recourse to?
JT The mercy of God is the greatest encouragement you can get, because God is compassionate with us. He is not bearing with our sins but He is bearing with our weaknesses.
AAT It is right at the end of a meeting, whether it be a meeting such as this or a meeting for ministry, to turn to the Lord at the end of the meeting for priestly help.
JT Just so. Why should you miss it? The passage is saying that: you come to the very edge of it and yet you may miss it. Hence, you have the word ‘slip’ in Hebrews 2:1: slip away. And here, the entering. Are you going to miss it? And so all the way through this remarkable book, the things that God has for us are just at our hands. Why should we miss them?
Ques You say God takes account of our weaknesses here. Is that why the high priest is brought in?
JT That is what it says. “For we have not a high priest not able to sympathise with our infirmities”. That is just what He is able to do, and [p. 224] He is above all heavens. There is nothing beyond Him.
ABP One was struck with what you said about the word; you were opening up about the mixing; the effect of the word as received as being mixed with faith seems to result in the dividing between the soul and spirit and joints and marrow, and the discerning of the thoughts and intents of the heart. It seems as though it clarifies the whole situation. It removes the feelings that might be connected with the soul from the intelligent discernment of the spirit, and separates and makes clear what right thoughts should be instead of having thoughts regulated by intents and motives. Would that be right?
JT So that the word of God is like a big illuminant put inside of us. The doctors, of course, do that now and all these scientific men depend on light. They all use light on their foreheads. They get the benefit of it, but the whole area that is affected is illuminated. You can name the things that are there: soul and spirit, and joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents. Who can distinguish that — the thoughts and intents of the heart?
WWM There is an interesting verse in Hebrews 6:9. It says, “But we are persuaded concerning you, beloved, better things, and connected with salvation, even if we speak thus”. Would that be to encourage them to come into the good of the thing?
JT That is just what the apostle is speaking of: how God is appealing to us after the severity of chapter 3. He is appealing to us in chapter 4 ending up with “let us approach”. Why should you stay away? God is your best Friend. If you take the history of the wilderness, see what He was to Israel. If their clothes grew old they were still usable. The manna was there every morning. The shoes were there to tramp every step of the way. God did that. Think of the conditions or the elements that were [p. 225] brought into play every day in Israel with all these two million of people to carry through. What elements were brought into action every day to supply those clothes and those shoes and that meat from heaven. That was God. God was operative all the time. There was no need of men doing much; no need of tailors, no need of shoemakers, no need of butchers. The food came down. There never was such a time in the history of the human race as men, women and children doing nothing and yet getting everything from God. God was doing that. That is the idea we are to get into in Hebrews, so that we have no excuse at all.
DMacd Does it not say that God nourished them?
JT Just so; for forty years.
TEH They did not realise what it was for God to take over one-half million people out and feed them every day and care for all their needs.
JT Moses says we have not cattle enough for that. He challenged God as to what He said that He was going to give them meat, but God did give them meat.
APT It seems to me that faith enters into this subject a good deal. Chapter 11 says, “For he that draws near to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them who seek him out”, Hebrews 11:6. Possibly we do not do that.
CAM A man’s spirit itself would have a lot to do with it. It says it is the lamp of Jehovah; in connection with all this inward discerning, God knows everything that is going on inside of us.
JT Very good; the inner parts of the belly. All the inwards are spread out before you so that you can name them. It takes some of us a long time to name all these things, but we can name them by the word of God.
JAP Does not the book of Esther expose the inwards of the persons such as Mordecai and Haman?
[p. 226] At the end of the book you see what marked them inwardly. For instance, Haman’s secret motives in seeking to get rid of Mordecai all came to light at the end. These things will come to light, will they not?
JT The gallows he made for Mordecai were used for him. His motives were disclosed. Well, I think this epistle is to bring us back to the gospel, only it is the gospel of heaven rather than the gospel of the kingdom, because the first part of this epistle refers to the gospel of our salvation. But the gospel that is spoken of here is the gospel of heaven; what the spies spoke of; not what the apostle spoke of but what the spies spoke of. The spies are persons who have been to heaven. Paul speaks of having been to heaven himself. That is, of course, only a suggestion. It is by the Spirit that we get into heaven normally. “And see, the Spirit’s power, Has ope’d the heav’nly door, Has brought us to that favoured hour, When toil shall all be o’er”, (74:5). If we have been brought there then we can speak of it.
Ques In regard to what you were saying about God caring for us, is that seen in regard to the good Samaritan?
JT He brought everything the man needed. That is what we are talking about. God had everything: clothes and food for the two million people every day.
AR Why does Paul speak of Timothy being set at liberty at the end of the book?
JT That must be written for the young men of the present war and the last war. We are all missing them. We miss them at every meeting. We need them, because we need freshness in the meetings. Where the word of God is dealt with in the great Psalm called Psalm 119, it begins with this, “Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his path? by taking heed according to thy word”, Psalm 119:9. That is the present [p. 227] time, and I believe it is our Timothys that are in view, that the word now may be available to them as they come in from these conditions and join with us in the service — join with us freely in it. I think that is what is meant. I remember myself twenty-five years ago, or more, when the dear brethren were relieved from the last war, we had a large meeting in Glasgow and I remember very well how it came home to us: “Know that our brother Timotheus is set at liberty”. That came with the authority of Paul, the writer of this book. They were set at liberty, and many of them are shining today in the ministry, and we hope that many of our brethren who are now in the service will shine in the ministry. It is when they are set at liberty.