READINGS ON EZEKIEL (3)
[p. 47] READINGS ON EZEKIEL (3)
Ezekiel 9: 1 - 11; Ezekiel 10: 18 - 22; Ezekiel 11: 13 - 25
JT Although we have read in chapters 9, 10, and 11 tonight, it should be kept in mind that our section begins with chapter 8 and is a sub-division of a great section that runs from the beginning of chapter 8 to the end of chapter 19. According to what has previously come before us, the testimony is presented in the power of resurrection, as typified in the lock of the hair of the prophet.
The last verse we have read tonight should be kept in mind as we proceed with our reading. The prophet says, “And I spoke unto them of the captivity all the things that Jehovah had shewn me” (Ezekiel 11: 25); showing that what is received from the Lord by those who minister amongst the saints is shown to all; here those of the captivity are particularly in view. This verse closes the section we are considering and would help us to bear in mind that ministry is the outcome of what we receive from the Lord, and that we do not reserve it for any special or personal reasons, but give out what we receive.
Chapter 8 shows that what is current at Jerusalem is the spirit of idolatry, provocative of jealousy. So that we have: “And he brought me to the entry of the court, and I looked, and behold, a hole in the wall. And he said unto me, Son of man, dig now through the wall; and I digged through the wall, and behold, a door. And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here. And I went in and looked, and behold, every form of creeping thing and abominable beast, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed upon the wall round about. And there stood before them seventy men of the elders of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his [p. 48] hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up. And he said unto me, Hast thou seen, son of man, what the elders of the house of Israel do in the dark, every one in his chambers of imagery? for they say, Jehovah seeth us not; Jehovah hath forsaken the land. And he said unto me, Yet again shalt thou see great abominations which they do” (Ezekiel 8: 7 - 13).
Thus it will be observed that these chapters have in mind personal conduct; names of specific persons are mentioned, one of whom dies in chapter 11, and Jehovah is seen calling attention to the evil, and directing the judgments against it in a personal way. So that this section would call upon us to be with God in what He is doing today. There is the general evil condition, but there are also certain persons who are prominent in the evil, and then there are certain persons, beside the prophet, who are brought into the service of judgment with God. Personalities are stressed as being involved in the evil, but in these circumstances, God Himself acts directly and calls others in a personal way into action with Him; so that they become workers with God.
ABP Is there significance in the fact that the living creatures, and other details of the vision which the prophet saw at Chebar, are referred to in this section?
JT I think so. It is to bring out that it is all one matter. It began at the river Chebar, where the saints were in captivity; the scene now is transferred to Jerusalem, but it is the same array of power; the same instrumentalities; the same system of judgment. That is not to be lost sight of. But I think this section brings out, peculiarly, individuality in God Himself, and in persons He uses. The idea of individuality has a great place in the Scriptures, set out in persons who minister and who call attention to themselves. For example, we find the expressions, “I Daniel”, “I Paul”, “I John”, and the Lord Jesus uses the same expression, “I Jesus”.
[p. 49] All that is to stress the idea of individuality in divine service. This is confirmed in the reference (Ezekiel 8: 2), to “the appearance of his loins” downward and upward.
WB-w You referred to resurrection in chapter 8, and the glory there. Does that connect with this section?
JT Yes. These chapters present the glory seen in judgment and show that the divine lustre does not deteriorate. It is seen in judgment later in Stephen, when his face shone as an angel. The glory was there — judicial glory — and, of course, God’s glory does not deteriorate when it enters into judgment. God’s glory shines unchangeably; so that in the scripture before us the glory appears, and Jehovah Himself comes in and directs everything in a personal way.
WB-w In chapter 8 both the image of jealousy and the glory are seen, but later, the glory departs.
JT One of the thoughts that run through this section is the departure of the glory, It is a humbling and sorrowful contemplation. The wife of Phinehas, when dying, named her child Ichabod, saying, “The glory is departed from Israel”, 1 Samuel 4: 21. But its departure is in view of the recovery of the people and its return. Here it is very slow to leave, for judgment is God’s strange work, but alas! the glory has to leave: “And the cherubim lifted up their wings, and the wheels were beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above. And the glory of Jehovah went up from the midst of the city” (Ezekiel 11: 22, 23). It is the glory, but it is gradually departing; it is not ceasing; we shall see it coming back later.
CAM You spoke of individuality and of God Himself coming in; do you think that would be a feature of latter church history, which would conform to what was at the beginning? We read of distinctive persons in the Acts, but we might be slow to realise that the same idea is in the mind of the Spirit for the present [p. 50] time.
JT I thought we might see that there is such a thing as that; that God Himself is acting. There is the general thought of judgment in the siege; but God is not seen in the siege. It is rather that others are besieging, but this section, from chapter 8 on, I think, brings out that God Himself acts, and others are brought into it, in the sense of personality. The section stresses judicial action, but at the same time has in view that another order of things is presently to come into view. The Acts would give us this same view of things; judicial action on the part of God against Jerusalem, but, at the same time, another order of things in view — “Jerusalem above” — awaiting Paul’s ministry for its introduction and development. Our part is to carry on the positive side of the truth.
ANW Would the thought of the individuality of God which has been referred to, be illustrated in the matter of the sin of Ananias and Sapphira, as being against the Holy Spirit?
JT I think that is good; God is seen in the three Persons there; divine personality is seen in Acts 5; “God” in verse 4; “the Holy Spirit” in verse 3; and “the Lord” in verse 9. Peter alleges that the sin was against each. Divine personality is clearly brought in there.
Rem Then also in Acts 1, the thought of personality is stressed, where the upper chamber is alluded to, where were staying “Peter, and John, and James, and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, and Simon the zealot, and Jude the brother of James” (Acts 1: 13). And then also “the crowd of names who were together, was about a hundred and twenty”; each one is distinguished.
JT Quite so; personality is in mind in the names mentioned, and then in the crowd of names, too; and I think, at the end of the dispensation, it is very suggestive that God is helping us as to the Persons of the Godhead, and how They stand in the testimony. I think we may [p. 51] refer to that here, because it is touching that God Himself is directing everything in our scriptures, especially in chapters 9 and 10.
CN The scriptures read seem to make a difference between those who dwell at Jerusalem and Judah, and those in the captivity. Would you define that for us?
JT Well, we have a word in Jeremiah 24 about two baskets of figs; one basket full of very good figs, and the other basket had very bad figs. The latter would refer to those who were left in Jerusalem, for the principle for the moment was to leave Jerusalem. Nebuchadnezzar was said to be Jehovah’s servant; not Zedekiah, the reigning king in Judah. Zedekiah was regarded as lawless, and those remaining with him in Jerusalem were viewed in the same way; as bad figs. They did not submit to the governmental dealings of God. They stayed in Jerusalem, as though things were right there. Ezekiel 11 is the same thing; they suppose the position is right, when it is wrong.
Now the figs were said to be very bad — a very remarkable word and it applies as much today, where there is disregard for the governmental dealings of God. It is a time for governmental dealings, and there are those who disregard them altogether, paying no attention to them, assuming that things are all right, when they are not right. God is dealing judicially with them, as it says, “whosoever has not, even what he seems to have shall be taken from him”, Luke 8: 18. That is what is going on all around us, and people are paying no attention to it. But then, there is the other side, for it also says, “whosoever has, to him shall be given”. So that in the prophet Jeremiah, the good figs are those whom Nebuchadnezzar took away in the first captivity: the king, the princes, the craftsmen, and the smiths; they were honoured in that way, being persons of usefulness, constructive persons. They were carried away captive, but were viewed as [p. 52] submissive to the government of God, and God’s hand was over them for good.
Now the same idea is found in Ezekiel, for those who were in Jerusalem were not subject to the government of God, and God Himself directed the judgment against them, whilst those in the captivity are viewed in the light of favour, and the message through Ezekiel is taken to them, namely, “all the things that Jehovah had shewn me” (Ezekiel 11: 25).
CN Referring again to Jeremiah, the good figs as brought back and presented at the door of the temple would be for food.
JT Quite so. The Lord sought for figs when here; He was hungry, but He found none. But now there are good figs in one basket — those viewed as subject to God’s dealings, as we have seen. But those actually at Jerusalem were very bad; worse than if there were none.
Rem The condition is called “wicked” in this book: it says, “she hath rebelled against my judgments in wickedness more than the nations, and against my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for mine ordinances have they refused; and my statutes, they have not walked in them” (Ezekiel 5: 6). I was thinking of what you were saying about what is committed. In Matthew 25, the bondman who disregarded the proper use of what was committed to him was called a “wicked bondman”.
JT Yes; an ordinary judge would hardly pronounce that upon him. He just hid the talent in the earth; did not use it. That is wickedness, for he is called a “wicked bondman”. I think we are perhaps too slow to recognise that insubjection to the government of God is wickedness, whatever form it may take.
Rem So that the image of jealousy at Jerusalem, which disputes the rights of the glory, renders the city [p. 53] wicked.
JT Quite so. Then, referring to chapter 9, we have a cry, “And he cried in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Draw near, ye that have charge of the city”, Ezekiel 9: 1. There must be something of importance in that voice. “Ye that have charge of the city”. These would not be the princes, whose names we get in chapters 8 and 10. These are they whom God regards as responsible, and He is calling them into action, “every man with his slaughter weapon in his hand” Ezekiel 9: 1. These weapons, and the persons who hold them, are not looked upon with favour by us unless we are really with God. But God would call us into this, as to the general position in the profession.
CHH Would they correspond with the angels of the assemblies?
JT It would be the same sort of thing, I think; those who are responsible representatively, so that the Lord calls upon each angel to do something; He charges them to deal with evil. The angels of the assemblies are not, however, viewed as apart from the evil that may exist in the assemblies, but they are responsible and called upon to act.
Rem Chapter 4 seems to present Ezekiel as doing things, whereas here it is the responsible element in the city that acts.
JT Well, God is here calling individuals into service, not simply one, but several, and these are persons regarded as having charge: “Ye that have charge of the city” Ezekiel 9: 1. It is a special class of people, and they are armed. God has taken the thing in hand Himself, in a personal way, and He has taken qualified persons for the service on hand. And then, there is a special person clothed in linen with a writer’s ink-horn. He is a very interesting man, for he has a great place in this chapter and in the next one too. We should keep our eye upon him; he is clothed in linen, and is told to mark off the people who are not to come under judgment. He is a peculiarly interesting man, for he [p. 54] represents grace, and also divine discrimination. It is a service to be specially desired. He is furnished. He has what is needed, and he is able to mark off the people that sigh and cry. He has a good ear for sounds, capable of hearing sighs and cries on account of current wickedness.
JS That would be those feeling the evil; not such as would make merry.
ANW Is he the seventh in the midst of the six — a complement of the six? The six are executors of judgment, whilst this man looks for what is to be saved.
JT Yes; that is a very interesting point. He represents God in discrimination. The six men represent God in judgment, particularly as being in charge of the city. It is a time of judgment, but it is lighted up by this man who is clothed in linen and has a writer’s ink-horn by his side. He is in the midst of the others, but he has a distinctive work to do.
Rem In Matthew 13, the fishermen gathered the good fish into vessels and cast the worthless out.
CHH Would the weeping in verse 14 of chapter 8 be in a wrong sense? It says that the women were weeping.
JT Quite so; they were weeping for Tammuz, which would refer to idolatry. There is much of that kind of religious feeling around us.
JS What would the position of the brazen altar in verse 2 indicate?
JT The altar was the place of judgment in a sacrificial sense; at the cross Jesus suffered the extreme judgment of God against sin; hence the consistency of God in this action. The great white throne is in keeping with the altar, and the sufferings of Christ, where God meted out judgment to His own Son on account of man’s disobedience. How can He tolerate disobedience in men now? That would seem to be the idea; the altar represents God’s consistency with what He [p. 55] is doing.
RWS In chapter 8 there seems to be a thorough discovery of what is in the city. Verse 7 reads, “he brought me to the entry of the court” Ezekiel 8: 7, then in verse 14 it says, “he brought me to the entry of the gate of Jehovah’s house” Ezekiel 8: 14, and in verse 16 it refers to “the inner court of Jehovah’s house” Ezekiel 8: 16; then in chapter 9 there seems to be a thorough knowledge of conditions in the city. How would that apply today?
JT Is it not that God would help us to judge things? For, if we withdraw from iniquity, we must know it exists; not that one is to be an iniquity-monger; not that we are looking for it, but God leads us to see it; it is a question here of what God shows His people. One would not like to go through the world looking for the iniquity that is current, but God shows us what is there. We are with God as to the general position, and He is with us.
JS That would be iniquity in high places?
JT Exactly, chiefly in the house. Think of what was going on inside Jehovah’s house! Today it is the “great house” 2 Timothy 2: 20.
JS I was thinking of the Lord going into the temple and driving out all those who bought and sold; they were making His Father’s house a merchandise mart.
JT We do not hear of Him going into the slums of Jerusalem to find out what the underworld was doing. It was those professedly in relation to God that He dealt with, because that is where Satan will work against God. Of course what is in the underworld is against Him, too, but it is not specially so. The enemy gets as near as possible to what is nominally of God. Satan gets as near to God as he can in his operations against Him.
JS And that would be to hinder the service of God?
JT Exactly; to nullify what God is identified with. Everybody knows that God is not identified with the [p. 56] underworld, but the cathedrals and the so-called churches and the like provide room wherein Satan can operate, and, indeed, wherever the people of God are, it can be said that “Satan also came” Job 1: 6. He would corrupt, if possible, what is connected with God; especially His house. God shows the prophet the corruption which had been introduced in relation to His house and His city.
AFM These men with the slaughter weapons were told to slay utterly the old men and the young men, and maidens and the little children and the women. I was thinking of how complete this judgment was, that it took in even the little children. We have just heard about the temple, where the children sang His praises. You could not think of judgment falling upon them, but what a remarkable thing it is that there are little children here! How ready the devil is to influence even little children!
JT What a voice it is to us as to our children! And it is lest they should be found in these ways, not lest they should have part in the underworld, but lest Satan should corrupt them in these ways, where God is outwardly owned; in places having a reputation that God is there. According to Ezekiel, the little children are brought there, the women are there, and the old men, and the young men; they are all there; all in the wickedness!
Rem It says in Revelation 2: 23, “her children will I kill with death”. And of Babylon it says that her sin reaches to heaven. I suppose there could be nothing worse in the sight of heaven than spiritual fornication.
JT That is what is in mind here; the prophet is shown things which are about to fall under the execution of judgment. Today our judgment is executed in withdrawal from these things — rigid withdrawal. It is a moral judgment, but the things are known. God shows them to us; we do not have to ferret out evil.
[p. 57] God shows us the things that affect Him, and calls us to be with Him in the judgment. Of course, as gathered to the Lord’s name in the recognition of the assembly, if evil shows itself in any way we are bound to investigate, in a priestly way. Hence if evil is found to exist, we have witnesses, and thus ground on which to move in judgment.
CHH Would 2 Timothy correspond as indicating our responsibility to exercise judgment in relation to what is in the house?
JT Yes; the different kinds of evil are recorded in chapter 3, particularly.
APf There are those who are marked out by the man with the ink-horn; would that be a remnant?
JT The suggestion is that we are to be able to determine those that are immune from this judgment. So that 2 Timothy is, “pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace, with those that call upon the Lord out of a pure heart” (2 Timothy 2: 22). The suggestion is that you can locate such; you can discover them; and withdrawing from iniquity is in keeping with the thought of judgment here. We do not do violence to people who are in iniquity; we leave them. God will deal with evil in His own time. Our position is a moral one; we act on the ground of withdrawal, but, on the other hand, we are to discern those who are calling upon the Lord out of a pure heart. It is not now that they have a mark in their foreheads; it is a question of what is in their hearts, and you must get near to them to discern that.
AR Is the mark on the forehead a result of what is inward?
JT It would be, as indicating the work of God, but you must get near to people to discover what is in their hearts. Jehu said, “Is thy heart right, as my heart is with thy heart?” 2 Kings 10:15. That is the way it works out today, by getting near to people and finding out where they are. Otherwise, many may [p. 58] come in amongst us whom we may have to sorrow over later.
CAM Jehu did not shake hands with him until he was sure. He extended his hand on the basis that the other man’s heart was right.
JT Quite so. Well, then, our chapter goes on to say, “And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon it was, to the threshold of the house” (Ezekiel 9: 3). That is, God is moving; the whole position is made plain. Attention is called to the brazen altar; the place where Christ bore the extreme judgment of God on account of sin. And now God is moving; leaving the house, and so the passage goes on to say, “and he called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer’s ink-horn by his side; and Jehovah said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in my hearing, Go after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have pity” Ezekiel 9: 3 - 5. There are many who would be inclined to listen attentively to what is said to this man with the writer’s ink-horn, who is going to relieve some of judgment, but they would recoil from the idea of judgment, and no doubt that is why Ezekiel says, “in my hearing”, as we have noticed; “And to the others he said in my hearing, Go after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have pity. Slay utterly the old man, the young man, and the maiden, and little children, and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary” (Ezekiel 9: 5, 6).
FNW Peter speaks of the judgment beginning, “from the house of God” 1 Peter 4: 17. Would these men who come and stand beside the brazen altar be such?
JT Yes; those with the slaughter weapons. But first they stand where there is a judgment of sin,
[p. 59] according to God. They stood beside the brazen altar. It is the standing testimony to the judgment of God. At the present time this should be maintained; indeed, it is, to some extent at least, in our care meetings and our assembly meetings convened for the purpose of dealing with sin. All this is in keeping with the brazen altar.
AC Does the man clothed with linen appear at a certain crisis? Daniel, at the end of his book, speaks of a man clothed in linen who was able to give a definite answer to the prophet’s inquiries.
JT I think the idea of being clothed in linen is that you are qualified. The Lord said, “Let him that is without sin among you first cast the stone”, John 8: 7. If we execute assembly discipline, surely it implies that we ourselves are judging the thing, and not only the particular matter in hand, but everything like it; that we are thus morally clear. The man clothed with linen represents what God can approve and use in this service. It is a question of holy discrimination. The executors of the judgment follow this man with the linen garment, for discrimination is most important, else we might execute judgment on persons who are not guilty. This is quite possible; the question as to whether the facts, stated as to a given person, are so or not, comes up frequently amongst us, and it is important that there should be the state amongst us that is represented by the man in linen, with a writer’s ink-horn, who is able to discern a person that is immune.
WB-w It is said in verse 11 that the man with the ink-horn came back and “reported the matter”. Is that a good feature?
JT Yes, and he said, “I have done as thou hast commanded me” Ezekiel 9: 11. It is a finished matter. The chapter outlines the whole matter, and what you have just quoted is the finish of it. The matter is reported; it is all settled in [p. 60] heaven.
WB-w So that when a case comes up before the general meeting, it is, as it were, reported, and the brethren can judge according to the facts.
JT Here all is done as divinely commanded; that is the true basis for judgment.
AFM Is not the attitude of Ezekiel a good one? He says, “while they were smiting, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah, Lord Jehovah! wilt thou destroy all the remnant of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?” (Ezekiel 9: 8). He felt things; that is another feature according to God.
JT Yes; and you have a counterpart of that in chapter 11, when Pelatiah died; “And I fell down on my face, and cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah, Lord Jehovah wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel?” (Ezekiel 11: 13). It is surely right that we should feel things; God, I think, values that and honours it.
Rem There does not seem to be any alleviation here.
JT You mean on account of Ezekiel’s feelings? No; that is to be noticed; there is no alleviation. This book says that “though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, should be in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness” (Ezekiel 14: 14). The severity of God’s judgment is stressed, but it is all on the principle of perfect discrimination. The evil is shown; God Himself takes part in showing it, and the judgment is on the ground that the thing is manifest.
Ques Moses says, “And now, if thou wilt forgive their sin ... but if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book that thou hast written. And Jehovah said to Moses, Whoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book”, Exodus 32: 32, 33. Is that not the point: every one must bear his own sin?
JT Quite so; that is stressed in this book.
WB-w Pelatiah, whose death is recorded in chapter 11, was a prince supporting the wickedness. His death is God’s government.
[p. 61] JT That is right; personality, in a bad sense, is seen in chapter 11. The names of two princes are given: “And the Spirit lifted me up, and brought me unto the east gate of Jehovah’s house, which looketh eastward; and behold, at the door of the gate were five and twenty men; and I saw in the midst of them Jaazaniah the son of Azzur, and Pelatiah the son of Benaiah, princes of the people” (Ezekiel 11: 1). These represent the public men of Jerusalem. The book of the Acts brings such before us too, as also the epistles; certain men of distinction, in a bad sense. One of these, Pelatiah, died; that is, God discriminated against him. Ezekiel’s sorrow did not alter that. But God went on immediately to speak to Ezekiel about his brethren. It is as though God said, Never mind these distinguished men; it is your brethren that you are to think about.
WB-w Would these men be paralleled in Herod in Acts 12, who was eaten of worms?
JT Just so. There are many mentioned in the Acts, but he is an outstanding case of one who came under the judgment of God, and we have similar instances in the history of God’s government — weakening the power of evil until it is finally dealt with.
ABP Does the execution of this judgment fit in with the straight feet and the straight going of the cherubim?
JT Quite so; there is no discrepancy on that side; everything is infinitely accurate Now in chapter 10 we have a most interesting set of facts, which require to be followed very closely. The matter outlined in chapter 9 is reported and finished in the last verse. In chapter 10 we read: “I looked, and behold, in the expanse that was over the head of the cherubim there appeared above them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. And he spoke unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Come in between the wheels, under the cherub, and fill the [p. 62] hollow of thy hands with coals of fire from between the cherubim, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. And the cherubim stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court. And the glory of Jehovah mounted up from the cherub, and came over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of Jehovah’s glory” (Ezekiel 10: 1 - 4).
Now, this is most interesting, for God is acting Himself, and one cherub is singled out. We have been speaking of personality, but now we have a cherub acting, but the man with the linen is also here, and he is invited in, and told to fill the hollow of his hands with coals of fire from between the cherubim, and scatter them over the city. Now he is not discriminating in favour of the persons with the mark; it is the same man that we saw earlier, but he is now engaged in a general act of judgment, which would show how we are to be usable, as God may need us. He is a man who is fit to be called in to the inner circle of things, and to be used in a general act of judgment over the city, but in doing so he is to take the coals in his hands; that is, he is a feeling man; he feels, himself, what he is doing, for the palms of one’s hands would feel coals of fire. It is not like the tongs which are used in Isaiah 6. The seraphim there did not feel the heat of the coal, but this man takes them in the palms of his hands; and he is a useful man, for, as we have seen, he is discriminating, and he can be used for judgment, and he feels what he is doing.
WR In Luke 24 the disciples were directed to remain in the city of Jerusalem until they were clothed with power from on high. Similarly to what you have said, this stay in the city would tend to effect in them right feeling and judgment in view of their service.
JT Yes; they were to stay there until they were clothed with power from on high. Jerusalem was a [p. 63] guilty city, and they were to stay in it, as if to become fully aware of the actual conditions which existed in it after the death and resurrection of Christ. But if they are to represent the Lord, an accurate knowledge of conditions is not enough; they need the clothing from on high as well. They get that in the coming down of the Spirit.
CN Would the two positions of this man refer to the end of the dispensation; that he had been marking those who were immune from the judgment; now he takes the fire and scatters it?
JT Yes. It would now seem as if the time has come for general application of judgment. When Stephen was put to death it would seem as if all the apostles should have left Jerusalem. “When they persecute you in this city, flee to the other” (Matthew 10: 23), was the word, but the apostles did not leave. The saints generally did. But later there was a great number, as the elders say to Paul: “Thou seest, brother, how many myriads there are of the Jews who have believed”, Acts 21: 20. The destruction of Jerusalem was near: are they really immune? Has the man clothed in linen marked their foreheads? Scripture somewhat reflects on this condition. It mentions no support from them for Paul in his last visit. The epistle to the Hebrews urged them to leave the camp — had they done it? If not, as applied to that time, the scattering of the coals indiscriminately over the city would suggest that there was no provision for them. 1 Corinthians 11 points to the danger of christians who do not judge themselves, being judged with the world. If the fire is scattered by a feeling man, a man who would have discriminated if he could; if he scatters the fire indiscriminately, what does it mean? If there are those belonging to the Lord there, they are judged with the rest. If I stay in an association that is contrary to God, I am judged with it. Of course, the Lord will take all His own with Him when He comes for the assembly, but in the meantime [p. 64] they are morally under judgment: their salvation will be so as by fire. They will be of that class.
Rem They were enjoined to flee to the mountains, as Jerusalem was encompassed with armies.
JT Quite so; those in Judaea, and those in the midst of the city were to depart out of it.
CHH “Come out of her, my people, that ye have not fellowship in her sins”, Revelation 18: 4.
JT That is in keeping with the direction in Hebrews 13: 13, to believers among the Jews, to “go forth to him without the camp”.
Ques So in receiving anyone now from christendom it is necessary to be more discriminating than was the case a hundred years ago?
JT Just so; conditions have greatly changed for the worse, and continue to grow worse.
ANW This man of whom we read is personally the same as he was, minus the ink-horn; he still has the linen.
JT That would mean that the time for the ink-horn, with its corresponding discrimination, has gone. We should be concerned that we are amongst those who have been marked. We see this man with the mark, and that one; why have not I such a mark? This searching matter should be thus faced. If one has not been marked by the man clothed with linen, he will be judged with the world.
Ques Would you say it is a serious matter for christians to be linked up with systematised religions, because of what is foretold in this scripture?
JT I think this chapter shows the exercise of undiscriminating judgment. The fire is to be cast over the city; he would not do it if it could be avoided; the judgment is felt in the palms of his own hands.
RWS The Lord says later, “I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a [p. 65] little sanctuary in the countries whither they are come” (Ezekiel 11: 16). Is that where they should have been — in the “little sanctuary”?
JT That is what those outside, having a remnant character, come into. They are in view throughout. In chapter 11 the sanctuary has a very distinct place. It is peculiarly interesting because of Ezekiel’s lamentation; he “cried with a loud voice, and said, Ah, Lord Jehovah! wilt thou make a full end of the remnant of Israel? And the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying, Son of man, it is thy brethren, thy brethren, the men of thy kindred, and all the house of Israel, the whole of it, unto whom the inhabitants of Jerusalem say, Get you far from Jehovah: unto us is this land given for a possession. Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Although I have removed them far off among the nations, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries whither they are come. Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I will even gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the countries where ye are scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. And they shall come thither, and they shall take away from thence all its detestable things and all its abominations. And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; that they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God” (Ezekiel 11: 13 - 20).
That is the position; the remnant is to come in for the full divine consideration, and all this comes out in relation to Ezekiel’s concern about the death of Pelatiah. Jehovah says, “it is thy brethren”, and He shows what they are coming into.
JS Is God establishing a new covenant with the people of Israel here?
[p. 66] JT It has that character, only it is the remnant, and it seems to be an answer to Ezekiel’s wail because of Pelatiah, the prince, who died.
GMacP Sorrow occasioned by the governmental dealings of God would fit us to have part in these gracious provisions for the remnant.
JT That is right. What is said about the remnant here is, you might say, what the saints enjoy now; that God takes those on who are truly the remnant.
AR Perhaps like Philadelphia, do you think?
JT Very much like it; it is brotherly love. It is the thought of brethren: “thy brethren” is repeated in the text as if the Spirit of God is calling attention to that word.
Rem It seems to be a private matter now — “little sanctuary” — and fits in with John’s gospel where the Lord says, “Come and see. They went therefore, and saw where he abode; and they abode with him that day”, John 1: 39. It is in a limited way, but very precious.
JT Quite so; God Himself is the “little sanctuary”. Think of God coming down to be that! How touching that is! And then we ought to see, before closing, that the glory leaves entirely. The description of the vision here varies somewhat from what we have earlier. Instead of an ox, there is a cherub. It is not an earthly position; it is more elevated, more the heavenly side in chapter 10. The glory is departing, but departing in that upward way. It is heavenly power and movement; we read in the end of chapter 11: “And the cherubim lifted up their wings, and the wheels were beside them; and the glory of the God of Israel was over them above. And the glory of Jehovah went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city. And the Spirit lifted me up” (Ezekiel 11: 22, 23). The prophet is taken off to Chaldea again; so far it is a finished matter now. The matter of chapter 9 was finished and reported; and now this is a finished [p. 67] matter. The glory has departed, and now the prophet is among the captives and tells them all the things that Jehovah had shown him. This would include what he and they were to come in for. Thus they would be strengthened and encouraged through the prophet.
Ques Would there be an inference in the “little sanctuary” that the glory has returned to the remnant?
JT Well, in the presence of God you get everything. What more could you see than what God is?
FNW Would the sanctuary at Jerusalem, where the judgment began (Ezekiel 9: 6), correspond with Sardis, “a name that thou livest, and art dead” Revelation 3: 1; and the “little sanctuary”, with “the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God” Revelation 3: 12, in Philadelphia?
].T. Yes; it is good to link those passages with the scriptures before us. Revelation 3: 12 contains the greatest things, and it is said to one man — an overcomer.
JS Where would you say the departure of the glory is indicated in the New Testament?
JT Finally from Jerusalem; I suppose it would be in Acts 7. The death of Stephen, I think, was the finish, really. Stephen saw the glory of God. He saw it above — the heavens were opened upon him, and, the passage says, “he saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God”, Acts 7: 55,56. That was the transfer from Jerusalem to heaven, and henceforth Jerusalem is in principle given up. Although the apostles went on there for a long time after Stephen’s death, Jerusalem on earth was superseded by the heavenly Jerusalem.
JS Did Stephen in his intercession at the golden altar stay the judgment for the moment?
JT Well, he asked that his death should not be laid to their charge, but I think the testimony in Jerusalem was morally finished; according to the Lord’s direction, the apostles should have left it. The Lord had told them that if they were persecuted in one city to flee to another; the saints generally went out,
[p. 68] but the apostles remained. God, of course, went on with them, but henceforth the energy of the Spirit is seen elsewhere.
JS I suppose you see it in principle in Peter’s word: “Save yourselves from this untoward generation” Acts 2: 40.
CHH Would the fact that the throne is seen above the cherubim be to justify the throne? Judgment is to be justified in all this!
JT Just so; the majesty of the throne is maintained in all that happens. The actions of the cherubim are in full keeping with the glory which is seen leaving Jerusalem; it is going up. I think Stephen shows us where it went to; now it is in the assembly; it was already there from Pentecost, but still connected with Jerusalem, but now there in a peculiar way through Paul’s ministry.
AR Would Ezekiel’s return to those men in captivity be like the book of Revelation, sent by the Lord Jesus to His bondmen? I was thinking of what a time they would have going over all this with Ezekiel, for it would seem that he told them about it.
JT Well, if you were to ask them, they would, no doubt, speak of ‘good meetings’ in Chaldea as listening to Ezekiel going over these things. As a good Levite, he would not give them all at once. Spiritual ministry is “in part”. The little sanctuary would imply that the remnant is on the way now to the full thought of God’s purpose. What is said implies that they are to be brought back to their own land, and His law is to be written in their hearts, so that we have the great prospect of the return to the land, and the fulfilment of God’s mind. But it is striking that God starts with the remnant in view of ultimate recovery and blessing in the land.
WB-w The truth we have today, in the epistle to the Ephesians, for instance, brings us back to the land by the Spirit, does it not?
JT We ought to touch it in our assembly services.
[p. 69] Rem There would, no doubt, be a condition necessary among the captives for the communications made through Ezekiel.
JT What has been said from Jeremiah helps in this matter; that those who have gone out in the captivity are the good figs, as submitting to the government of God. This would indicate a state in them enabling them to value what Ezekiel would present to them.
CHH Is the thought of God being “a little sanctuary” like the thought of the latter glory of the house being greater than the former (Haggai 2: 9)?
JT Yes. If God is with us the glory is with us; it is a question of expansion. We need to make room for Him. John 14 says that one believer who keeps Christ’s word may be an abiding place for God; here God says He will be to them a “little sanctuary”. That is what God can be to us. How comforting, especially for any in apparent isolation!