ASSEMBLY FUNCTION AND SERVICE GODWARD
[p. 202] ASSEMBLY FUNCTION AND SERVICE GODWARD
JT If we compare the last verse of Luke with this chapter, we shall observe a striking difference in the bearing which is there towards the Jewish remnant, as left here with jubilant spirit “praising and blessing God” in the temple Luke 24:53; while in this chapter the bearing is toward the assembly, We have allusions to it which indicate this. In verse 4 it says, “being assembled with them”; then in verse 21, “the men who have assembled with us”; and further, we have allusions to ascension, “Having said these things he was taken up, they beholding him” (verse 9); then, in verse 10, “as they were gazing into heaven, as he was going, behold, also two men stood by them in white clothing, who also said, Men of Galilee, why do ye stand looking into heaven?” “Then”, it says, “they returned to Jerusalem ... . And when they were come into the city, they went up to the upper chamber” (verse 13). These are two lines of thought running through the chapter. Then there is the statement in verse 3, that “he presented himself living, after he had suffered”. I thought we might look at these scriptures under those heads: first, as indicating that the assembly was to be marked as living; then, that there is the understanding of how to assemble in the Lord having assembled with them; then thirdly, there is the thought of ascension and moral elevation in going up to the upper room; then the manner of Christ’s own ascension in that “he was taken up, they beholding him”, and in the two men saying, “This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven” (verse 11).
[p. 203] I think a careful comparison of all this would help us as to assembly function and service Godward. The epistle to the Hebrews may be linked on with this, which speaks of the assembly; the chief point or, as it says in chapter 8, “a summary” being that “We have such a one high priest who has sat down on the right hand of the throne of the greatness in the heavens; minister of the holy places”. Hebrews 8:1. What is summarised includes chapter 2:12 which quotes the Lord from Psalm 22 as saying, “In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises”. Hebrews 2:12. I think the Lord would help us as to assembly service towards God.
JJ You are looking at this first chapter as pattern?
JT Just so, as containing the elements of instruction for assembly service, in view of the coming in of the Spirit; the Lord stresses that presently, and this light is furnished so that the Spirit will be free when He comes in, the saints will know how to regard themselves; and hold themselves, so that the Spirit may carry on the service. It is noticeable that the Lord’s action here is by the Spirit — He charged them “by the Holy Spirit”, the power in the assembly would be the Spirit. I think the Lord would help us as to coming together in assembly, and how He presents Himself living to us. The trend of His mind would be towards God, towards the Father — He is going back to God, to the Father — “I ascend to my Father” John 20:17 — all that enters into this chapter. As in heaven He is Minister of the sanctuary, whereas on earth He would not be a priest, so we are to come on to heavenly ground as in the assembly, so as to be available to Him in the service. He comes before us Himself here, as we see in a preparatory way; but as Minister of the sanctuary He is before us in relation to the service of God; it is in mind that that should be maintained.
Ques Does “presented himself living” answer to the manifestation we would covet every Lord’s day?
JT It is suggestive of a living state of things, I think, after He had suffered; of course He was living before, but now it is “after he had suffered” — the “being seen by them during forty days” alludes to a spiritual state of things, that brings them into it as witnesses of the forty days, a known thing by persons like ourselves, that He was seen by them for forty days — to bring in that there is such a thing as seeing Him in resurrection in the experience of the assembly.
Ques So there is an advance here; in the end of Luke it is, “witnesses of these things”, Luke 24:48 but here it is “my witnesses”, would that involve our understanding the place into which the Lord has gone?
JT Yes, I think so, that He has gone into heaven; they are here, so all this is to qualify them for this service, to be His witnesses. I find in moving about that certain gatherings are somewhat confused as to assembly service, through the want of apprehending that the Minister is in heaven; and whilst He joins us here, in a spiritual sense, the service is carried on now in relation to heaven, and as the Lord is apprehended as indicated here in this chapter, He carries on the service in relation to God the Father. He is rightly enough an Object of worship, as the Father is, all are to honour Him, as they honour the Father, but if He takes a subordinate place, you see why that is so and join Him in that place, so that the service is carried on according to divine purpose, according to what it will be eternally.
JJ The reaching of it is a spiritual experience.
JT Yes, that is what the chapter teaches, I think. He was seen of them forty days, they had not had that experience during His lifetime on earth; it was the same Person, but now He is in a new condition, a spiritual condition of [p. 205] things.
EAE Would you link that forty days’ experience with the experience of Moses on the mount in view of the tabernacle being set up?
JT I think so, it is preparatory in view of the tabernacle. Moses, Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and, in some sense, the seventy elders also, were taken up to a realm which is a pattern of what heavenly things should be. The earthly public side of it has to be distinguished from the actual thing; the tent was covered with the cloud, as it was set up and in function as set in its place in every part, and anointed, all, as it were, living, then the cloud covered that, God said, ‘That is the thing now’, He lays hold of that for Himself, and then He fills it with the glory; I believe that indicates what is in mind, it is a heavenly thing.
EAE So that you get a vessel at the end in Paul who said the same things as Jesus — preaching the glad tidings of the kingdom of God — is that what is in view, the assembly left here on earth taking up this service intelligently?
JT Just so. While the court is part of the system, it is on earth, the public view; the cloud covered the tent, the covenant side of things where the priests officiated. If you think of its bearing Godward, it is all inward, but as present testimony here the court is included, it is outward. I think the Lord’s supper is celebrated in the court, that is the public side. The tent is covered by the cloud, even Moses does not enter then, it is God’s sphere.
TJK Is there a passing over from the ministry connected with the remembering, for in Luke 24 two men asked the women why they sought the living One among the dead? Then, lower down, they heard He was living; but here the two men connect their hearts with the Person immediately after He had presented Himself to them. Is that a greater ministry than that connected with [p. 206] the two men?
JT The two men in Luke 24 would be what marked the resurrection, they represent the feelings proper to that; and the two men here, the ascension; and the two men in Luke 9 would be the heavenly saints above. I think if you link on the three twos you have the idea, two being a testimony: they were angels, no doubt, but they are called “men” as these are, too; the idea of man at the resurrection and the idea of man at the ascension calling attention to it, the manner of it; and men above — two men speaking with Him above — showing the liberty that men have up there, to indicate what is available to us even above, the two men are speaking with Him. Here they are speaking with the disciples, and at the grave they spoke with the women; but above the two men are speaking with Jesus, appearing in glory, in full heavenly attire; that is what we shall be, and such an order does enter into assembly service. I think we ought to see that in the service we are not only risen with Christ, but we belong to Him in heaven, we are partakers of the heavenly calling on heavenly ground, for it is in heaven He is Priest and Minister.
Ques What have you in mind when you say, assembly service?
JT I am thinking particularly of what is inside. The Lord’s supper is, I think, in the court; it has an inner bearing, of course, but “ye announce the death of the Lord” 1 Corinthians 11:26 is a public thing, that is introductory. The Lord showed Himself living here, He has His place in relation to the Supper; anyone participating there speaks of the Lord and calls Him “Lord Jesus” by the Spirit: it is the Spirit that gives the touch, it is not the words merely, but the spirit in which they are said. I think that as apprehending Him in the bread, the cup comes into view as in relation to God, it is the covenant; and He is in the current and He would draw all into that current. So we have the [p. 207] Lord Himself in His sacrificing love for the assembly, and God too, who purchased us with “the blood of his own”, Acts 20:28 as we are told, that is the blood of the covenant, it brings God in, God in Christ; but then there is the thought of ascending, He went up, and that, I think, changes the ground. One only suggests these things; a change of ground implies heavenly position, for christianity is heavenly, it is not earthly at all; it touches the earth in testimony, but it is heavenly, and our Priest is in heaven.
Ques And is not the Supper to advance us to the upward position? Ought we not to be ready to ascend almost directly after the breaking of bread?
JT It is a question of liberty. If the Holy Spirit is amongst us and operating, He will stress these features first, so that we are free to take heavenly ground.
Ques Would you say the covenant brings God in?
JT I think so. The covenant is not between Christ and us; it is between God and His people. Why should He not be recognised in it?
Ques Do you distinguish between God and the Father, in addressing Him?
JT Yes; the covenant was made by God, the Father is an additional thought; when we say ‘God’ we think of Him as we have learnt Him in Romans — after all we must proceed on the line of divine order in our souls; it is the Spirit of God that has shed the love of God abroad in our hearts. The Father is further on; it is a question of the family.
Ques You are not in covenant relationship with the Father in that way?
JT No, the covenant is not between the Father and us, children do not need a covenant; the covenant is to assure our hearts and to establish us. We have the status of His people, and love sets us free that we might enter into our heavenly part.
[p. 208] Ques Are we in order if we do not speak to God in relation to the covenant?
JT I should not rule a person out if he did not speak to God; the Lord is sufficient; but if you get into touch with His thoughts, He will lead you to God, He is the Mediator of God.
TJK Do we come together to break bread — and if we were ready we should do it — then in the giving of thanks for the cup, the covenant love of God would be before us; and after that would the Lord be free to lead us to another elevation, the thought of the Father and coming to Him?
JT I think that would be the order; that is what appears in this chapter. The trend of the Lord’s heart as the Mediator is towards God, to bring us into that. Why should He not bring us into covenant affections? — that is what mediatorship implies; it would bring us into those affections, that we should enjoy them. So “perfect love casts out fear”, 1 John 4:18 we are free.
Rem In John 20 as He came into the midst, the hearts of the disciples were made glad; He secures His portion as the saints are taught in that way.
JT Just so. Luke is the public side, where He adjusts us, and where they were speaking; but they are not speaking in John, He is speaking, it is the spiritual side. Then, as you say, He has His part in it; His brethren surely ought to be in accord with Him, but the trend of His affections is Godward. We need to take heavenly ground, and this chapter teaches us that, He was taken up. Then Hebrews states plainly that it is in heaven He is a priest, and a priest that “became us”. It is a very remarkable thing that we need such a high priest as that, Hebrews 7:26 showing the greatness of our status.
Ques Would the assembly be a very important feature in view of service?
JT I think it is important, coming in after life;
life is the first thing, “He presented himself living” to them. Why to them? Why not to the Father? It is to impress them with the conditions after He had suffered. The stress is on the Spirit, it is the way of doing things in the assembly that is in mind.
JJ Would the two presentations in Luke and John help us, as showing the two sides? In Luke He showed His hands and feet; but in John His hands and side. Would that have a bearing on both sides of the meeting, so to speak?
JT I think John’s way of speaking would make way for the assembly, that is where the assembly came from, in the type, from His side.
JJ Whereas His hands and His feet would be more the early part of the meeting.
JT Just so — what He has done for us.
Ques In presenting Himself living, were the disciples brought to understand by His teaching during the forty days, something of the meaning of an order of things out of death?
JT That is the thought exactly, life out of death.
Rem He had spoken to them, and, as we find so often in the gospels, they did not understand His words, but are they brought now to understand what He said to them before the cross?
JT I think so. It says that when Jesus was raised from among the dead, His disciples remembered what He had said. It is the condition now, it is life out of death.
Ques I was asking that because, lower down, we have the thought of His assembling with them, they would become acquainted with an order of things out of death, like Hebrews where the Sanctifier and the sanctified are all of one.
JT That is exactly the setting of the truth, I think, that we are to understand the living state of things, life out of death; and then the procedure — He assembled with them. Later on it says. One who has “assembled with us all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us” Acts 1:21 — that was their assembling, but now He is assembling with them — that is the order of procedure.
Rem So this had to wait till resurrection was an accomplished thing.
JT Yes. So, if I come in as an uncouth person, Peter would say, ‘That is not the order; look how the Lord did it’. Not simply that He stood in their midst — that is stated at the end of the gospel — but we are to learn things from what He did, He assembled with them. We are gradually rising to a heavenly line where we shall be partakers of a heavenly calling.
Rem There is another passage, in John 12:16, similar to the one you have quoted, “his disciples knew not these things at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things to him;” John 12:16.
JT Quite so. That would mean that the Holy Spirit had come. In John 14 the Lord said He would send the Spirit.
JJ So, as you were saying yesterday, the future is brought into the present, and we should enter into that now. Would that not be realised if we knew what it was to go up?
JT That is the thing, so the basis is laid in Ephesians 2 where we are said to be raised up together. We are entitled as in assembly to take proper assembly ground; so it is no longer the local setting, but we have moved on to universal and spiritual ground, so that the Lord is in the midst of that great company as in heaven, carrying on the service.
JJ You make the sanctuary almost equivalent to heaven?
JT It is; it is said to be “the figurative representations of the things in the heavens”, Hebrews 9:23.
Rem It says, “As they were gazing into heaven, as he was going, behold, also two men stood by them in white clothing”
— [p. 211] would that give them an understanding of the kind of people that would be welcomed there? Then would the Lord, as in that scene of exaltation, encourage our hearts in relation to what is here?
JT Yes, He is waiting for us, as in assembly, to take that ground, and then to know how to carry on in it; not to be changeable, but to be governed by principles that govern that exalted level. There could be no service after the camp broke up and moved on; it is when they are in camp the service is suggested; God is there, and the priests in function and the levites and the people — that is our first day of the week.
Ques Is the lack of understanding of the covenant what hinders our rising?
JT I think so. Our hearts are not set free until the perfect love of God in the covenant is felt. We have a formal order of things so much in our minds. The covenant shows the disposition of God; as knowing the freedom and liberty it would set us in, there would be no difficulty in rising to this high level. John 14 to 17 imply a current, the current of His mind — the Father is in mind; it says, “Jesus, having said these things” to carry them with Him. I think these are the elements that enter into assembly service.
Ques Would you say some of the feelings are seen in the way Elijah led Elisha along till the last point when he ascended? I was thinking of the forty days Elijah had to go in the strength of that meat; then he goes up and the Spirit comes down, answering to these chapters of Acts. Would that be right?
JT Just so. They walked and talked together after they crossed the Jordan — that is the forty days — then the point is, “If thou see me when I am taken from thee”, 2 Kings 2:10 and that is the point here, it is specially [p. 212] mentioned that they beheld Him. Well, you want to see that move, and to know you have part in that, for He has raised us up; here “he was taken up, they beholding him”.
JJ Would the message to the brethren help us to see Him go up? “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”. John 20:17. Does not that hold good to all time?
JT Quite so. That message is the great treasure in the treasury.
JJ The Lord says enough to secure their following Him; then He says, “Rise up, let us go hence”, John 14:31. Would the Lord have us with Him in what is before Him?
JT Quite so. Then He lifts His eyes to heaven and says, “Father” John 17:1, and He speaks of the love with which He was loved being in them John 17:26, that they should love like the Father. It is not covenant love now, we learn to love as the Father loves.
Ques What have you to say about the manner of the return; do you look at it in a spiritual way?
JT Yes, I think the assembly understands; in the interval we carry on according to this movement; the interval is to be filled out in the assembly according to these movements. “This Jesus who has been taken up from you into heaven, shall thus come in the manner in which ye have beheld him going into heaven”. What they saw is known in the assembly, the movement is known.
Ques And it would eventuate in the rapture, would it not?
JT We understand the rapture, I think, in this way, it is the manner of His coming; I think it is the rapture that is alluded to. Of course He will come publicly, but it is the manner that is in mind here.
Ques The return from the mount called Olivet seems to have a large place, it comes into prominence both before and after the Lord’s death. It says He went, as was His custom, to the mount of Olives, His disciples following Him; here they returned to Jerusalem from the mount of Olives. What do we learn from that?
JT I think they are now moving as He moved; coming back to Jerusalem is coming to a public state of things where all these things are worked out, a scene of contrariety; but He had access — He went by night, Luke says, to the mount of Olives Luke 21:37, that means a heavenly retreat. So that, whilst we work the things out in a scene of contrariety, we have an outlet in the Spirit to a heavenly state of things, where there is no contrariety.
Ques Is that why the distance between these two points is “a sabbath day’s journey”?
JT Yes, I think so. I suppose the distance would refer primarily to the distance between the tabernacle and the camp, they were to pitch afar off. God would not be deprived of that on the sabbath, they could walk that distance.
Rem Directly you touch the public side, the upper chamber becomes necessary.
JT Well, the idea of the upper chamber is, I think, that we are apart from current religious ways. We have to distinguish between the upper room, and Olivet; Olivet means a spiritual elevation, a link with heaven; the upper room is our moral elevation, that we do not sing hymns like they do in the Church of England, we do not give thanks as they do, we have learnt assembly procedure, the spirit in which the service of God is to be carried on — I think that is what the upper room signifies. It is not the temple, it is a level above that; the contrast is between the temple and the upper room. Olivet is a realm outside of opposition; Jerusalem is the realm of opposition.
TJK Does it bring in something new, for in Zechariah the mount of Olives is “before Jerusalem toward the east”, Zechariah 14:4?
[p. 214] Is it bringing in some new elevation connected with the spiritual realm?
JT I think Luke makes it very plain that it is the Lord’s retreat, the link with heaven; and in view of the assembly He ascends from mount Olivet, in the Acts; whereas in Luke He ascends from Bethany, for the remnant is in view there.
Rem The thought of Olivet would not suggest spiritual conditions so much as heavenly communications.
JT That is the idea, I think, it is outside the realm of opposition.
JJ Would the names of the persons in the upper room denote the moral fibre of the assembly — the quality of the persons?
JT Yes, they can stand against the evil.
JJ And the reversal of the order — Peter, John and James — in the New Translation, is noticeable, as if it gave a kind of assembly order to the company.
JT The same order as on the mount of transfiguration — it is changed there again.
Rem And in Luke 8:51.
JT They represent the spiritual element, I think, the best, so to speak.
Ques Andrew comes in here after Peter, John and James, and in Mark’s gospel we have these four on the mount of Olives addressing the Lord as Teacher. What is the special significance of Andrew being brought in? He is linked with the three in this chapter.
JT I do not know. There is something in it, but one would have to enquire as to how Andrew is presented in Scripture. His introduction in John is, “Andrew, the brother of Simon Peter, was one of the two who heard this from John and followed him. He first finds his own brother Simon”, John 1:40.
[p. 215] Rem I wondered if the city to which they belonged had any connection with it, they belonged to Bethsaida. Would it be an element on that line?
JT I think so. I think Bethsaida represents the levitical side.
JJ Then in John 6 he knows where the food is.
Rem The Greeks in chapter 12 came to Philip, and Philip told Andrew.
JT He had an important place in that he was one of the first followers of Jesus, and he was a gatherer. But these thoughts should help us in our part in the assembly, as to our thanksgivings and hymns — the use of the means of praise, of carrying on the service of God — in that we should know what to do in assembly as on heavenly ground.
EAE You have raised a question that has been a matter of exercise, with regard to addressing God in the cup; would you go on with the thought of the Lord Jesus after that? Often many a hymn is addressed to the Lord Jesus after that.
JT I think that is quite scriptural, for Paul comes back to it himself in the way in which the Supper is presented from heaven. We have always to bear in mind that the Supper we have is given us from heaven; it is to pass that way, not simply by Jerusalem, by the twelve, but via heaven; and the apostle says, “In like manner also the cup, after having supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood”. 1 Corinthians 11:25. Well, that refers to God. Then it goes on, “this do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me”. 1 Corinthians 11:26. Do you not think that?
EAE Yes, that was my difficulty, if, in addressing God, we have to bear in mind that the remembrance is of the Lord. What about the oscillation we have spoken of?
JT The oscillation is to pass over from addressing the Lord, to the Father, where we are professedly on heavenly ground, and then come back to the Lord;
[p. 216] what you are speaking of in relation to the cup is in the court of the tabernacle. The covenant is an old matter, and we are sharing in it. We share in all the good things of Israel, but the best things of Israel are not our best things. What they have, I think, belongs to the court, it is a public thing, and stands in relation to us publicly. These are the people Christ is not ashamed of. But when we take heavenly ground, as we may, and have liberty to do, then the Spirit says, “Abba, Father”; if He does, the Spirit really makes the change; for He has already said “Lord Jesus” — at least someone says it in the power of the Spirit. But then, if the Spirit says, “Abba, Father”, that is another matter, and we should continue with that.
Rem So Ephesians says we are brought “nigh by the blood of the Christ” Ephesians 2:13 — that is positional; but “we have both access by one Spirit to the Father”, Ephesians 2:18.
JT Yes, “by one Spirit”, that is on a higher plane than Hebrews 10, where it says we draw near having boldness of access by the blood. In Ephesians we both have access through Christ by one Spirit to the Father; well, why not stay there? — that is the highest point.
Rem So the covenant brings us to God, but access to the Father is something beyond that.
JT That is the point, and if we touch that it is most blessed and exalted, it is really the highest point; and why come back?
Rem We need much help as to that.
Ques In connection with that, it says, “being assembled with them”; would the Lord, in that way, take headship of the company?
JT You could understand He would have the pre-eminence there. That is what Hebrews touches on — “in the midst of the assembly ...”. Hebrews 2:12. The position answers to Psalm 22, what was in His mind in [p. 217] the praises of Israel, and for us that means the praises of the Father. After He spoke of the covenant in Mark, they sang a hymn; not ‘He’ sang it, for it is not in Jerusalem He sings. Then they went to Olivet — that is heavenly ground, the ground is changed as soon as you see that.
Rem Verses 21 and 22 would be another ground.
JT I only suggested those two verses to bring in the thought of assembling. The apostle selected is to be “one of those” — he is to be an assembly man.
Ques It speaks of “the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us”, what is the thought in that?
JT That is a suggestion that is very precious — He comes in and goes out among us. As soon as you touch the mount of Olives, that is, as soon as the Father is alluded to in a spiritual way amongst us — I do not mean the actual use of the word, but in the Spirit of adoption — a lead is given, and the saints do well to hold to that ground, it is the Father’s portion now.
Ques Do you think, in a practical way, we need to give more place to the Spirit, so that when there is a movement of the Spirit such as you mention, we should be more ready to follow?
JT Yes, to be accustomed to Him; in your prayers, your meditations, to learn how to be conscious of the Spirit’s action in you, to give way to Him, not to grieve Him.
Ques Would the Lord’s position at the head of the table at Emmaus show the idea of assembling, that we should come under Him — He having the place of Head?
JT Well, of course that is not the breaking of bread — still, He took the place of house-father there. I think something is done in that way by you, or me, or someone else, that reminds us of Christ — that is where the memorial is; but when He comes in [p. 218] and presents Himself, you have a living state of things. Then He assembles; I understand that to mean, not the public position in the court, but what is inside, the heavenly side; He is now the Minister. What will He do if He is assembling there? He is assembling with them; He must take the initiative in everything — you can see that.
Ques He asked for food and ate before them; would that suggest that, even in His glorified position, the Lord finds delight in being with His people?
JT Quite so.
EAE There are two references to the Lord coming in in John 20. First, in verse 19, “Jesus came” John 20:19; then, in verse 26, “Jesus comes”. John 20:26. Does it suggest it became habitual to Him to come?
JT That is a good suggestion.
EAE So there is no need to mention “for fear of the Jews” John 20:19; it is habitual on our side to take up that attitude.
JT Quite so.
JJ And the Lord says, “I am coming to you”, John 14:18.
JT That is the same thought.