LEADERSHIP
[p. 274] LEADERSHIP
Psalm 107:1-8; Psalm 107:36; Isaiah 63:11 - 14
JT It will be known to most of us that this psalm begins the last book of Psalms, looking to the recovery and the reinstatement of Israel in nearness to God, carrying on the service of praise; and we have this thought of leadership introduced at the outset as it takes form in the last days, and what the object of it is, that is, a city of habitation, and it results in those who share in the leadership establishing a city of habitation marked by prosperity. Then in the prophet we have leadership of old, leadership at the outset, which is to be compared with leadership in the last days, a gathering involved in it, and what is noticeable is the place the Holy Spirit has in the leadership in the beginning in the prophets — because “his holy Spirit within him” applied to the leadership — and then it says, “his glorious arm leading them by the right hand of Moses, dividing the waters before them, to make himself an everlasting name, — who led them through the depths, like a horse in the wilderness, and they stumbled not! As cattle go down into the valley, the Spirit of Jehovah gave them rest; so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name”. I thought the comparison of these scriptures would help us as to the results of divine leadership and how we are to learn from it all as to how we are to lead in a right way amongst the brethren. There is leadership and leadership; but these scriptures show us what leadership in a right way is, to the end that men might go to a city of habitation, that is, a place of order, light and rule, and yet a place suitable to dwell in. That is what I was [p. 275] thinking of.
ESH It is very much needed, I am sure, that we might be able to lead in a right way.
JT If we begin to call our little meetings ‘cities of habitation’, we may see the force of it more; if they are not that, they are not much.
HFN Will you say a little more as to what is in your mind with regard to that?
JT Well, the psalm, of course, opens up the plight in which men find themselves through want of this very thing; one circumstance after another involving distress amongst men. God in His wisdom allows us to go to a point, and then comes in for us — men are to praise Him for His goodness and for His wonderful works to the children of men. The psalm contemplates all that; and where the saints were — they wandered in the wilderness, He gathered them; they found no city of habitation — “Then they cried unto Jehovah in their trouble, and he delivered them out of their distresses, and he led them forth by a right way, that they might go to a city of habitation”. I think anyone can see that the conditions in verse 7, what is in the mind of God for them, must have been a very great contrast to their circumstances. It is not the deliverance out of Egypt that is in mind, it is a subsequent deliverance. Then He goes back to the deliverance out of Egypt in the prophet to show what a place the Spirit has in it. So that, whilst we accept the kind of leadership that belongs to the last days, we do not forget the great leadership at the beginning; the Holy Spirit had a great deal to do with it, it is a spiritual state of things.
HFN Did Saul in Acts 9 being led by the hand find a city of habitation?
JT I thought so. You would not say Damascus was that. He was to go into the city and there to be told what to do, and he found a city of habitation. He was in a certain house in a street called Straight, and there were evidently living conditions there, light [p. 276] came into his soul there, he would begin to see that there was such a thing as a city of habitation. Damascus was not that, for he had to flee from it. Is that what you had in mind?
HFN Yes, that is it.
AH Does the city of habitation involve the thought of God being there, like that of which Moses speaks in Exodus 15 — He brought them to the mountain of His habitation?
JT Well, quite so, that is in mind. I suppose Beer-sheba gives the thought of the city of God. Man’s cities had a place before Beer-sheba, that is Cain’s and Nimrod’s, but Beer-sheba seems to convey the thought of a divine city, having the well of the oath where divine things are gathered into you. No gathering affords such conditions as we were speaking of that is marked by rivalry, where you have to button up your coat, so to speak, where you cannot sit down in quietness and restfulness and assurance. A city of habitation implies that there is security; it is a poor thing if one is not secured from attack when amongst the brethren.
HFN Would you tell us how we establish a city of habitation if God leads us there?
JT I think it arises from our discerning the divine mind. Acts 9 is in view, “enter into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do”. Acts 9:6. Well, the streets there had names and the Lord had access there, He was free to visit the brethren there, for no human conditions can interfere with the Lord’s sovereign movements in that sense. So Ananias goes to Saul and he had some influence with him. Ananias had different thoughts, but he came under the Lord’s thoughts and committed himself; he went to Saul and said, “Saul, brother ...”. Acts 9:17. No doubt that would be in Paul’s mind in all his later services: he would say, ‘Wherever I go in my service I would like to find places like this’; so he ordained elders in every [p. 277] city. The apostles chose themselves elders — they made it a point that they were suitable elders that could be trusted — in every city.
ESH Not ‘an elder’ but “elders”.
JT I think the idea is they were trustworthy. The reading is “having chosen them elders”. Acts 14:23.
HFN Does not what you refer to come out very strikingly in this psalm, “Let them exalt him also in the congregation of the people, and praise him in the session of the elders”? Psalm 107:32. Would that bear on what you are saying? Would not that spiritually elevate the thought of our care meetings?
JT I thought that, for that is whence the light and order of the city springs. The city takes on the thought of order, light and rule, and choosing them elders in every city would mean there were reliable persons in charge. The Lord if He came would find an entrance, and so would any brother who was in accord with the Lord’s mind. John speaks of a state of things in the assembly, the object of which was to cast people out — that was not a city of habitation.
Ques Would Jerusalem in Solomon’s day be the result of David’s leadership? I was thinking of what they said of David, “thou wast he that leddest out and broughtest in Israel”, 2 Samuel 5:2 and Jerusalem was a city of habitation in Solomon’s day.
JT I was thinking of the capture of the city of David, mount Zion; then the repair of the rest of the city by Joab would all have in mind to guarantee security, a state of things where the Lord is free to come and a brother can come and feel he gets fair dealings. There is no Joab there to stab him under the fifth rib; that is not the thought of a city of habitation. If you are afraid of certain brethren in the meeting, your life and property are not guaranteed.
Ques Is it implied in verse 4 — “they found no city of habitation” — that they were looking for one?
[p. 278] Would not all the instincts of the saints look for and value the thought of a city of habitation?
JT I do not know of anything to be desired more than that, there is security of life and property — for what is a city otherwise?
Ques Would not this be the force and end of Ezekiel’s prophecy? It says, “the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there”, Ezekiel 48:35.
JT Yes, I think that is right. He was there freely, not merely to keep the peace, but restful. The idea of Zion was that it was where God dwelt. David said, “Until I find out a place for the Lord, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob” Psalm 132:5, that He might be there undisturbedly.
AH He had redeemed them from the hand of the oppressors, this psalm says.
JT That would mean, I suppose, that He had rights over them. The opening part is to show what God is to us in these last days in the way of gathering us out of the country; but that is only the beginning of things. I believe many a dear saint of God is just feeling his way who has not found this.
Ques Would it involve true assembly conditions where the Lord has His place and the Holy Spirit, too?
JT I think that is in mind. One is restful and not apprehensive of being unfairly dealt with. On the other hand, if one has confidence in the brethren you can commit yourself to them, because, after all, they may have a better judgment about me than I have about myself, and it is a comfort to have that. If I am casting about to discredit the brethren because I think they are not just dealing rightly with me, you may be sure I am not right.
Ques Do the Songs of degrees contemplate this, leading up to brethren dwelling together in unity, and then God’s sanctuary?
JT [p. 279] That is right, that is the point in them, I think. The throne is there for the remnant returning; it is one level after another in elevation. “Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem”. What a joy it was to them! They say, “Jerusalem, which art built as a city that is compact together” Psalm 122:2,3 — there is no independency, there are no loose ends, in Jerusalem. There are thrones set there, the thrones of the house of David, you will get judgment there; it is a great matter to have that confidence.
Ques Would the early verses suggest that the city of habitation is not arrived at without deep exercise?
JT I think so; the deep exercise is seen in the cry — “Then they cried ...” it says. That is where revival comes in, when we cry. It says, When they cried “he delivered them out of their distresses, and he led them forth by a right way”.
Ques You were referring to the wisdom of God — in His wisdom does He allow things to reach an extremity that we might be rightly exercised?
JT I think so. I think that is when you get the real gain of a cry in relation to the discipline of God. God feels it when we are insensible and unfeeling as to His discipline.
Rem The answer comes, “For he hath satisfied the longing soul and filled the hungry soul with good”. Psalm 107:9. Is not that the answer to the cry?
JT Yes. The first thing in answer to the cry is, “he led them forth by a right way”. How many there are who are not sure, they want the assurance of a right way.
AB Have we to really know what privation means first?
JT I think that is right. I think God allows us to come to that point where we have need. This psalm tells us the different circumstances in which men may call, and in every case when they cry they [p. 280] get deliverance. He will never fail to answer the cry of need — we may be sure of that.
Ques Why does it say in verse 3, “from the east and from the west, from the north and from the sea”, not ‘from the south’?
JT That is significant, for usually the sea is the symbol of the west in the Old Testament; that is, the standpoint is from the land of Canaan, but here the sea comes in as distinct from the west — “from the north and from the sea”, as if that was the south. The sea, I suppose, as in this setting, would be a hopeless situation, where you have no footing. So, however hopeless it may seem to be, you are delivered from it.
Ques Is it a reference to the scattering among the gentiles?
JT It may be, but it is the feeling you have that is alluded to, I think, a feeling of no footing, no ground to stand on — for what is there in the sea? Of course, it would be all right in a ship, for “those that go down to the sea in ships” Psalm 107:23; there is some footing there, but there is no ship in mind here. I think it refers to a state or feeling. Many are like that, they do not know where they are; they have no footing or certainty as to anything.
HFN It says they were “redeemed” (verse 2); then they are “gathered” (verse 3); and then they are “led” to a city of habitation (verse 7). Is there a moral order in that?
JT That seems to be so. “That they might go to a city of habitation”; in a spiritual sense that would be the saints viewed, I suppose, as according to God, regulated by His light and government, so that the saints take it on there. Spiritually it does not mean, of course, any change of territory, the change is in you, for after all, all that the Bible is dealing with is what goes on in my soul, what men will reach in their souls; therefore “a city of habitation” is the way we are brought to look at it.
Ques Is that all implied in “a right way”?
JT Yes. Romans 7, for instance, is a question of analysis and what goes on inside and it works out in what God effects in my soul, and I begin to look at the saints differently. Many have no idea of the saints but as so many persons. It is no question of the work of God in Palestine or Africa; of course, He does work in territories, but it is a question of what He works in men’s souls. So, if I come to a city of habitation, it is a question of what the saints are to me, how I look at them. Then Isaiah, I think, is really on a higher plane than Psalm 107, for it is a question of the part the Spirit has in it.
FI Verse 36 of the psalm says, “he maketh the hungry to dwell”, and then the other side is, “they establish a city of habitation”
JT That is right. “He maketh rivers into a wilderness”, and then, “water-springs into dry ground” Psalm 107:33; that all alludes to what happens in our souls. “A fruitful land into a plain of salt, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein. He maketh the wilderness into a pool of water, and the dry land into water-springs; And there he maketh the hungry to dwell”. Psalm 107:34,35. It is a question of a moral process; it does not necessarily mean any change of territory at all outwardly. Outward territory has nothing to do with the building God is carrying on, it is in my soul. If we think of England or America, it is a question of land and rocks; but it is what is in men’s souls that is in the mind of God, and I begin to look at the saints in this way, I begin to see myself a part of the thing, of the city of habitation, that I might be governed and regulated by light and rule, the order of God, that implies eldership and the like.
Rem The expression in Isaiah seems to convey [p. 282] that God wished this to be revived — “he remembered the days of old”.
JT Yes. What those wonderful days were to Him! They were far more wonderful to God than to Moses or anyone else. It was new experience with God, speaking reverently. Why should not God be allowed pleasure in what He is doing, and even in the reminder of what He had of old! He reminds Himself here of what He had of old, as it says, “he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people”. Then the question is, “Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him, his glorious arm leading them by the right hand of Moses, dividing the waters before them, to make himself an everlasting name, — who led them through the depths, like a horse in the wilderness, and they stumbled not?” Did anybody ever see that in the wilderness? I mean, Did you ever read that in Exodus? I do not think you will read it anywhere. Who is to get the credit for it? God is to get the credit for it. They go down like a flock to that beautiful valley and rest — God does that, that is the idea — God has pleasure in recording all that. That is the kind of thing you want in every town. The credit is to the Leader in Isaiah. It is what God did — these led people did not stumble. If a person goes wrong; well, he is guilty, of course, but then what about the elders? Why did they not prevent it? In the early days it says God prevented that. He “put his holy Spirit within him”, it is a question of leadership. If things go wrong in the meeting have not the shepherds some responsibility? The thought is they keep the people from stumbling; God does it through them.
FI No doubt that is where our failure is; we wait for things to develop before having sufficient interest to see what [p. 283] is happening.
HFN Is not that perhaps one of the greatest needs, shepherd care and service amongst the people of God in our localities?
JT I am sure that is the point. Of course there is no diminution of the guilt of a person who causes sorrow amongst us, like Achan; but when Achan’s sin occurred, there were more than Achan in the thing. What was Joshua thinking about? and the spies when they came back? They were in a wrong spirit. It is the state of the leaders. Achan was guilty, of course, but the leaders were not right.
Ques Does the psalm in that way give us the great secret of right leadership — God leading His people by a right way, and all the satisfaction that results from that? And then in the scripture in Isaiah it is the thought of leadership being in the people, carried on by Moses and shepherds.
JT I think that is the idea, that God provided the shepherds in the early days. Deborah speaks about leaders that led in Israel. Now here it is, “Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he that put his holy Spirit within him” — (alluding to Moses, as the note says) — “his glorious arm leading them by the right hand of Moses ... and they stumbled not?” It is a beautiful passage!
Rem Moses had the shepherd spirit, the great leader of the people, he was like God in that way.
JT Yes. I think the saints learn from the leaders. The book of Acts is really a book of precedents; that is, it is what the leaders did. I would pay great attention to the leaders of our own days, looking back about a hundred years; I should long to know more of them, it is a great advantage to know leaders, “Remember your leaders”, Hebrews 13:7 it says. But then the great leaders are furnished in the Acts and we see what they do, and the ordinary saint takes account of what they do and follows on that line.
[p. 284] Rem The leaders in the Acts acted by wisdom; the lack of direct command in the book of the Acts is striking.
JT It is very striking; it is not what they were told to do but what they did, and what God effected by what they did. If I heard a leader today I should be affected by it; if I heard him speak to God or if I heard him preach, I should be affected by it.
Ques Would he be a leader who took the lead well amongst the saints, according to 2 Timothy?
JT He was worthy of double honour if he led well. I believe everyone who is in a prominent position amongst us ought to be gravely concerned as to what influence he is exerting. The last book of Psalms is intended to show that the end of the days means continual praise to God; that is the great end of God’s ways.
HFN Would you say why, in this passage, so much is made of the Holy Spirit? — they “grieved his holy Spirit”; then, he “put his holy Spirit within him”; then “the Spirit of Jehovah gave them rest”.
JT Well, is it not to remind us of what marked Pentecost and successive periods, that all that went on was a question of the anointing; man’s will was shut out. Whatever was to be done, if it were a question of providing food for needy saints, well, it was men who were full of the Holy Spirit and faith; if it were preaching, it was by those full of the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit sat upon all of them and they were all affected, and their words and conversation were in spiritual power. What a scene it must have been in Jerusalem! One often tries to picture it. And I believe that is what we get here, that God remembered that. He had part in all that and shows you He had part in it. Perhaps when you were young you were blessed and helped by the Lord, well, why should you not remember that? You love to [p. 285] revert to seasons when the Lord blessed you; and why should we not allow the Lord that privilege, that He has joy in what He does? “He remembered the days of old”.
HFN Might we link it with the thought in Revelation in connection with the One who led them to fountains of waters of life? Is the passage indicating a return to what we read of in the opening of the Acts?
JT Quite so. What a thought there is in that, what richness!
B Will you say a word as to grieving his Holy Spirit (verse 10)?
JT “But they rebelled and grieved his holy Spirit: and he turned to be their enemy; himself, he fought against them”. But then, “he remembered the days of old” — He did not forget the joy He had in leading them. The grieving of the Spirit is a sorrowful mark of our own day.
Ques If there was more shepherd care and oversight as a model for the flock, would there be less stumbling amongst the saints?
JT I think that is a lesson for us as brothers. There is to be no diminution of the guilt of those who err, but let everyone take it to heart as to what kind of leading they have had, what kind of example they have had.
Ques In Philippians reference is made to the “overseers and ministers”, Philippians 1:1. Do you think that is a tribute to them?
JT Well, I think that whilst the state of things at Philippi was remarkably good, yet there was perhaps disregard of the overseers and ministers, the saints had to be reminded they had a great place. After all, elders may rule well, and there may be a disobedient state amongst us.
Ques Do you think that in John 17, the Lord [p. 286] had peculiar pleasure in saying to the Father that of those He had given Him He had not lost any?
JT Well, there was the leadership. If anything happens in a meeting you feel the first thing is for a brother or a sister to say, ‘Well, what example have I set? Have I done all I could to prevent it?’ You alluded earlier to Hebrews 13 — in chapter 12 it is, “looking stedfastly on Jesus the leader” Hebrews 12:2 — is there any connection there? We have come “to the city of the living God” Hebrews 12:22 in the same chapter.
JT Just so. The best of leaders may fail us, but “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and to the ages to come” Hebrews 13:8 — your heart rests there.
Ques In the chapter just referred to, the very next word is, the apostle says, “Pray for us”. Hebrews 13:18. Is there not often a lack on our part in praying for those who watch over our souls?
JT Yes, and in regarding the elder brethren in love for their works’ sake. There is a good deal of radicalism amongst the younger brethren, I believe, a want of respect for age and experience; but of old the shepherds were brought up with the flock. There is no idea of a hierarchy such as we have in christendom where the leaders never came up out of the sea; the true leaders according to God came up out of death with the rest.
HFN Would that mean they did not bring a single feature of Egypt with them?
JT I think that is the idea — coming out of the sea. It is a new thing altogether, this leadership according to God, for God has “brought again from among the dead our Lord Jesus, the great shepherd of the sheep, in the power of the blood of the eternal covenant”. Hebrews 13:20.
HFN Is that what compelled Balaam to say twice, They are a people that have come out of Egypt?
JT [p. 287] Yes, just so, the saints take on that character.
Ques Is that why it is said of David he was a man after God’s own heart, with regard to the position from which he was taken originally?
JT Yes. Before he became leader of God’s people he had to go down to the valley of Elah, to go down to death in figure and come out of it. “He fed them according to the integrity of his heart, and led them by the skilfulness of his hands”, Psalm 78:72. It is remarkable how these scriptures bind up the saints together, leaders and led, and nobody escapes responsibility if things go wrong. If things go well everybody gets the praise, and it is God making an everlasting name for Himself.
Ques What would you say is the great and prominent feature to be looked for in leadership according to God?
JT Well, I think this psalm helps us. He led them in a right way, you are tested as to whether you know right and wrong — that is the first thought. “He led them forth by a right way”. The question is, Is a thing right? There is right and wrong as to anything that comes up, and the true leader leads in the right way. But then one great mark of leadership is in John 11, when it was said, “Ye know nothing nor consider that it is profitable for you that one man die for the people” John 11:50 — that is a great principle, one man dies for the people. That is true leadership, the way the Lord has led.
McC You feel the need of following a good lead, otherwise where would any of us be?
JT The word ‘right’ is a test. The true idea of leadership began in Genesis; in the garden God placed the cherubim by the tree of life that no one might partake of it in their sins. Is there no way out of it but that the creature God has made for His pleasure must be shut out forever from His presence? The [p. 288] answer is that God made coats of skins; death is there and God owned it.
Rem So, as leaders are prepared to suffer, they endear themselves to the saints.
JT Yes, I doubt if anyone is worthy of the name who does not know something of dying, giving way in a crisis, surrendering his own way and his own will.
McC Is it leadership in suffering?
JT Pretty much. A man may suffer unnecessarily, of course, for his own faults, still it is the general thought, “he that has suffered in the flesh has done with sin”, 1 Peter 4:1.
DW The Lord has been through the sea, and, as passing through it ourselves, we experience His sympathy in a wonderful way. Does not the psalm teach that?
JT Quite so. Then we get the green pastures — “He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; he leadeth me beside the still waters” Psalm 23:2 — that is His leadership.