THE SUBSTANTIALITY OF CHRISTIANITY (2)

THE SUBSTANTIALITY OF CHRISTIANITY (2)

1 John 2: 3 - 29

AJG We have a good deal in this chapter as to abiding in Christ, involving fixed conditions by which we are preserved, and where we commenced reading we have one of the many tests that the epistle provides, by which we are intended, as it were, to check up as to where we are and how far we are really governed by the truth. We cannot take the ground of knowing God, or knowing Christ, if in fact we are lawless and do not keep His commandments, so that the epistle is salutary in that way as insisting on reality. I think one can see, more and more, that the way that God meets the conditions which have come in through sin is by coming into those conditions Himself, first in the Person of Christ and then in the Person of the Spirit. Christ has come in and has overcome, passing through the world of evil in every way pleasing to God and setting forth in Himself what God is in His nature and His moral character, and then the Spirit has come in, redemption having been accomplished, in order to attach believers to Christ and form them after Christ. The result is that what is of God is extended, and, as we read, “the darkness is passing”; it is being gradually displaced, so far as the circle of the saints is concerned by the light. All around the circle of the saints is morally darkness, but it becomes constantly imperative that we should challenge ourselves by these different statements, and as thus discovering our true measure, we should be exercised to take on the truth more. So that we have, “He that says, I know him, and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word, in him verily the love of God is perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him.”

EJH Would you say that on this line there is nothing neutral and nothing optional?

AJG Yes, I would say that - nothing neutral and nothing optional. As the epistle develops we find that we are either of God, or of the devil, and we are of God as born of God. But then the great thing is to identify ourselves in mind with our true nature as of God, and repudiate all else, the Spirit being the power for that. Then, as you say, there is nothing optional either, for the epistle is full of the thought of commandment.

JGM What is the distinction between “His commandment” and “His word”?

AJG The commandments I think always refer to what is essential and imperative and, in a sense, they stand for all time, but “his word” conveys more His mind for the moment, so that there is always continual freshness and further fulness in the word.

HDT Implying confidence, does it?

AJG Yes, and the making known of His mind. One has often thought of Mary of Bethany; it says of her, “having sat down at the feet of Jesus, was listening to his word,” Luke 10: 39. But then if the Lord had come to Bethany again a week later she would have been still sitting at His feet “listening to his word,” but He would be saying something fresh then. The idea of keeping His word is thus that we have got an ear open to whatever God is saying at any time and are keeping it and following it up.

JSE Does that explain the commendation of Philadelphia?

AJG Yes, I think it does. It says they kept His word and did not deny His name, the word indeed having first place there.

APT In Luke 5 the Lord puts a word to Simon Peter; he hesitates momentarily, but then he says, “at thy word” - would that be for the moment?

AJG “At thy word I will let down the net.” Well, in a sense, that was a commandment, I suppose. He says, “Draw out into the deep water and let down your nets for a haul,” and Peter obeyed.

AHG Why is this keeping of the word linked up with the love of God? It says, “in him verily the love of God is perfected.”

AJG I think the word would bring to our hearts what God has in mind to bring us into, so that the more we keep His word the more we become confirmed in the sense of the love of God.

HC Does it link up with the verse in John 14 you quoted this morning?

AJG I think it is very useful to link it up with that. First of all in John 14: 21 the Lord says, “He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me; but he that loves me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him” - that is the commandments. Then Judas, not the Iscariote, says, “Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us and not to the world? Jesus answered and said to him, If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we” - that is the Father and the Son - “will come to him and make our abode with him.” The result really is that the whole Godhead is there, because the Spirit is already there, according to what the Lord had said in verse 16, “another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever,” and then in verse 17 “ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you.” The result, therefore, of keeping the word of Christ is that the Father and the Son come, and They make their abode with such; the Spirit is already there, so that the whole Godhead, so to speak, is known in close proximity and the love of God becomes perfected with such.

WSS So that would you say this is a constant exercise in connection with the unfolding of the word continually?

AJG I think so, and I think we can see that the word of Christ would be constantly fresh.

WSS Wonderful possibilities in hearing it and keeping it?

AJG Yes.

GRC Would the promise to the overcomer in Philadelphia suggest the communications that might be bound up with His word, when He speaks of “the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God ... and my new name”?

AJG I would think so, but would you say a little more?

GRC I was wondering whether the commandments would relate more to what we speak of as the principles of fellowship, but if they are kept it makes way for the unfolding of the divine mind and secrets really as to God Himself and His city and the Lord’s new name.

AJG I am sure that is so. I think it helps to see that there is the idea of commandment in 2 Timothy 2: 19, “Let every one who names the name of the Lord withdraw from iniquity”; this commandment provides the conditions under which we can come into the truth. Then we get two outstanding commandments in addition; there is the whole of the first epistle to the Corinthians, which is said to be “the Lord’s commandment” (1 Corinthians 14: 37) and this commandment regulates us in our assembly relations and movements. But then there is the further commandment in John 13 and in this epistle, and that is that we love one another. That provides the mutual conditions of unity and affection, within the conditions brought about by obeying 2 Timothy and 1 Corinthians, in which the fulness of the truth can be enjoyed. Now if those commandments are kept, then I think there is a clear scope for the word in all the fulness of it to be brought out.

PL Would Deuteronomy 33 suggest that, “Moses commanded us a law. The inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.” But then, “he loveth the peoples, All his saints are in thy hand, And they sit down at thy feet; Each receives of thy words.” Is that the opening up of much in Deuteronomy?

AJG I would think so.

FCH It says in the word to Philadelphia in Revelation 3, “thou ... hast kept my word.”

AJG That is what the Lord values so much and that is what I am sure we need to keep in mind constantly. The Lord is ready to speak and the Spirit is speaking, and as long as we are here there will be fresh speaking. There is need, therefore, for an attentive ear to what the Lord has to say, and what the Spirit says, but then there is not only to be an attentive ear, but we are to be marked by keeping the word in our minds and following it up, and allowing ourselves to be governed by it.

RJW What is the difference between ‘the word’ and “the word of his patience” as in Revelation 3?

AJG I do not know that I see much in the way of difference, except that it stresses that the present time is a time calling for patience or endurance. The Lord Himself is waiting on that principle, but throughout the period that calls for patience or endurance the Lord supports us by a living word.

JAF Would the keeping of His word imply that we are to be formed by it and give expression to the truth in that way?

AJG Oh! surely. What is in mind really is that God should come into expression in the saints; He came into perfect expression in Jesus and now that is to be worked out in the saints.

LF Is that why it says here “whoever keeps his word, in him verily the love of God is perfected”?

The truth seems to be connected definitely with the commandments, and the keeping of His word with His love.

AJG Yes, the one marked by keeping His word is kept in the constant enjoyment of the love of God.

WSS Should we not always be on the look-out for fresh unfoldings of the word as they are treasured up in the Scriptures and made known by the Spirit?

AJG We should, I am sure.

WSS Do you not feel there is something about us all which gives us an impression that we have reached finality, whereas what we have is infinite, is it not?

AJG That is so.

AB Would David’s mighty men be an illustration of keeping his word? One was thinking of his desire for water from the well of Bethlehem, and how those that were near him broke through and it yielded much to him and to God in result?

AJG They were near enough to him to know his longings.

AH Would you say a word as to this remarkable assurance at the end of verse 5 - “hereby we know that we are in him.”

AJG John has in view that we should arrive at fixity, I think, so he speaks of such things as “abiding” - we have later on in the epistle “he that abides in love abides in God.” We could hardly get anything greater, I suppose, than abiding in God. Whatever happens God is known and His love is rested in, so that Mr. Taylor years ago linked up the word of Moses in Psalm 90 with this epistle, “Lord, thou hast been our dwelling-place in all generations”; there was a man who was abiding in God.

ABP Is there some intimate link between what we are saying and John 1: 1, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”? I wondered if John using this expression as frequently and as he does, would convey to us the potency (for the lack of a better word) that there is in “the word” as linked on with the Person, who is Himself the expression of God.

AJG I am sure that is so.

PHH Reminding us of the word in Hebrews 4, would you say; that is, that God Himself is in His word?

AJG That is good. That scripture first of all deals with everything that needs to be discerned, and, if need be, exposed, but then the final result of it is that we are left in the presence of God. If we are prepared to face the exposure of everything that needs to be exposed, then we shall find ourselves held in the presence of God.

EJH Why is such a strong word as ‘liar’ used? Later it speaks about hating your brother.

AJG Because of the urgency of maintaining the truth livingly and in its purity.

ACSP What have we to learn from the fact that the assumption that “I know him” is linked with not keeping His commandments?

AJG It is just an assumption; it is assuming to know the Lord or to know God and yet being marked by lawlessness. Satan is the origin of all lawlessness, and we cannot possibly really know God, or really know Christ, without loving Him, and if we love Him we will keep His commandments. We will be sensitive as to anything that is displeasing to Him or contrary to His mind.

PHH Implicitly, would such a person, a ‘liar,’ be morally linked on with the devil? I am thinking of the word in John 8 where the Lord, speaking of the devil, says “he was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks falsehood, he speaks of what is his own; for he is a liar and its father.” Does that make the apostle’s term here a very solemn one, that such a person should be designated a liar?

AJG It does, so that in the book of Revelation every liar finds his place in the lake of fire.

WD Cain was marked by these features; he was a murderer and a liar.

AJG Quite, so. We shall find that in the next chapter, if the Lord will, Cain is brought in as the one who was of the wicked one, the one through whom Satan’s influence first took form in, you might say, a progenitive way.

CH The scripture quoted just now from John 8 seems to give just that extension you are speaking about, for the Lord goes on to say, “and because I speak the truth, ye do not believe me.” It is not just that the enemy is the father of lies, but the Lord extends it to those who refuse what He had to say.

AJG Quite so. It says “he,” that is the devil, “is a liar and its father,” as though he begets others of that character. There is the danger that all that kind of thing can come into professed Christianity, and hence the apostle is insisting on genuineness and truth marking the saints, and our walk together being governed by the light in which God is known.

AHG Could we have a little help as to what is involved in the expression “in him” - “Hereby we know that we are in him.”

AJG Well, that may be either in Christ or in God. We come to it in the last chapter of this epistle where it says, “we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true; and we are in him that is true” - that is ‘in God’ - but “we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ.” We thus come to fixed conditions and a fixed position in the love of God in Christ, and the more we are kept in the enjoyment of the love of God the more we know that we are in Him; it is the fixed position into which God has brought us.

ABP Is this more than status?

AJG It surely is, because it is a question of what we know.

EuR Has not Mr. Taylor connected ‘abiding in the Son’ with the solar system?

AJG Well, Mr. Raven often did and I have no doubt Mr. Taylor has too. Mr. Raven often remarked about John’s writings being linked up with astronomical ideas, so that just as the earth is kept in relation to the sun, so the believer is held in relation to Christ.

FCH Is it challenging and salutary to keep in mind how very near Satan is to us in all these things? I was thinking of what is said of Satan himself, transforming himself into an angel of light.

AJG That is so, and it is particularly stressed in John 13 where the most precious things are set before us. The Lord there is about to introduce precious things, but at that point Satan had put something into the heart of Judas. Judas was present when the Lord washed their feet, but then finally Satan enters into him, and then he goes out. It is particularly emphasised in that chapter that in the presence of the most precious things Satan is near.

PHH Do you think that the family, as John speaks here of “my children” and then presently “children,” then in the next chapter “children of God,” is calculated to keep us right and free from these elements and growing in the truth?

AJG I do.

PHH I was thinking that it needs more than ministry; does it not need the affectionate surroundings, where the saints are and where, you might say, divine Persons are near and at home?

AJG I am sure that is so. Cain has been alluded to, and we find, in connection with his history, that it says that Eve bore Abel his brother. As soon as Cain comes on the scene God gives him a brother, as though He had in him the circle of the brethren, you might say, in which the truth was to be enjoyed and worked out. Alas! that only brought out that Cain was of that wicked one and hated his brother, but the stress on the brother in Genesis 4 is very remarkable in those verses in relation to Cain and Abel.

ABP Cain is never called ‘a brother,’ is he?

AJG No, he is not, but Abel was his brother.

WC Is not Peter in John 6 an example of one who was maintained in his orbit in relation to Christ? It speaks there of some that “walked no more with him,” but Peter says “to whom shall we go? Thou hast words of life eternal.” Does not the thought of walk come in here as a sequel to what we have been saying, in the sense that we should walk even as He walked?

AJG Yes, quite so.

WC Is that the secret? There is the Person and His communications, and it held Peter and those with him and he could say “we,” could he not?

AJG Yes, and the result contemplated is that we should abide in Christ. In the next chapter we find that whoever abides in Him does not sin, so that, in a practical way, the saints are in mind to be delivered completely from the influence of every form of lawlessness by simply being held in their affections and faith in relation to Christ and learning from Him.

EJH Would you say that as soon as Cain had a brother, his brother became a test to him, as our brethren are a test to us in that respect as to whether there is truth in the inward parts?

AJG Well, maybe, they are sometimes a test, but they are a great encouragement, comfort and support and that is what God intends in the circle of the brethren.

EJH I was feeling that we may have jealousy or other feelings in our hearts towards our brethren,

or toward a brother, so that each one of us has to be maintained in constant self-judgment?

AJG Quite so, but Abel only became a test to his brother because Abel maintained the truth.

PHH Would it be right to say here that the individuals mentioned are characterised by certain things, “he who says,” “he that loves,” “he that hates,” and so on, whereas the circle as a whole is also referred to when John says, “Beloved, I write no new commandment to you ... “ and so on? Would John always keep us in touch in that sense with the circle while enabling us to discern anything which is right and anything which is wrong operating in any person?

AJG Yes, I think so, and hence he brings in now this commandment in the section from verses 7 - 11. I suppose the commandment is love; he says, “I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment, which ye have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye heard “that is, it is what they had learned in Christ, it is not anything new, it is the old commandment which they had had from the beginning. On the other hand, it is new, for the Lord Himself says, “A new commandment I give to you, that ye love one another” (John 13: 34), and it is new in the sense that it is now true not only in Christ, but in the saints. Love is seen substantially now in the saints and there is a circle on earth in which the darkness is passing or has passed and the true light shines.

JTS Is it interesting that the old commandment is “the word which ye heard”?

AJG The ‘word,’ I take it, would be the impression they would get from Christ, do you not think?

JTS Something more than what He said, what they had found expressed livingly in Him?

AJG I am sure of that, and therefore it was following on His laying aside His garments and taking a linen towel, and pouring water into a basin, and washing their feet, and wiping them with the linen towel with which He was girded, that the Lord said, “a new commandment I give to you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.” But really that was ‘the word,’ there was the living expression of the thing in Christ.

JW “Which thing is true in him and in you.” I am emphasising the “thing,” is that the substantial side?

AJG It is the substantial side, exactly.

GCS Do you think that the saints love one another more than they ever did? The injunction you are giving us is necessary, but is there not an evidence today that there is more love in activity to one another than ever there has been?

AJG I think it would be true to say that, but then the word is “more and more”; that is what Scripture says.

WSS With regard to the words just quoted “which thing is true in him and in you,” does that include the sort of life, the eternal life that has been mentioned in chapter 1?

AJG Yes, I think so.

WSS The character of life that was in Jesus?

AJG Quite so.

EuR Does Philippians 2 bear on that, “irreproachable children of God in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom ye appear as lights in the world, holding forth the word of life”?

AJG Yes, I think that links with this, so that you might say that the darkness is passing. The world around is all darkness morally, and becoming more and more so, but in the circle of the saints there is the true light shining.

RGB Would this make our local settings peculiarly attractive to us? I was thinking of the local setting as where divine love can be peculiarly experienced and where love can be worked out in our relations with one another.

AJG Yes, I am sure that is important, because it is in our local settings that we are near to one another, and the circumstances of each and the composition of the local company are all ordered of God with a view to the development of His own nature in the saints.

ECM Does Peter’s word help - “having purified your souls by obedience to the truth to unfeigned brotherly love, love one another out of a pure heart fervently”? I was thinking of how it would stress the importance of the truth.

AJG So that the holding to the truth works out in “unfeigned brotherly love,” and that really, as his second epistle shows, and as this verse in the first epistle shows, leads on to love, love “out of a pure heart fervently.” I think we need to bear in mind that love amongst ourselves is not simply for our own mutual enjoyment and help, but because God Himself being love can only dwell congenially in conditions of love. If, therefore, we want to have God with us in known nearness, we must provide conditions of love amongst ourselves.

EJH And there is no respect of persons with God, so there will be no partiality?

AJG Quite so.

WC Does not the beginning of Ephesians 5 give it the setting in a local company? “Be ye therefore imitators of God, as beloved children, and walk in love, even as the Christ loved us, and delivered himself up for us, an offering and sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour”; there is a yield for God in that passage?

AJG Yes, and Christ becomes the standard, so that one who is abiding in Christ will learn to move as He moved.

WC The family of God is in mind in the expression “as beloved children”?

AJG Yes.

PHH Do you think that our sins having been forgiven for His name’s sake would lay a common basis with us all for drawing near together and loving one another?

AJG I am sure it would, and do you not think the sense that we have all had to have sins forgiven, and that they are forgiven, would help to subdue us? It is a wonderful bond that the apostle, in that way, brings in a ground that we can all come on to before he introduces the thought of differences in stature.

PHH I wondered whether the different grades and stature would be a help to us; it would not be a hindrance that there were the different ones and some were further on than others. Should all that be a help to us in the family?

AJG Well, it certainly should. Fathers would be an example and an encouragement to those who are children.

GRC Would you say another word as to the relation between the “new commandment” and the commandments in the plural? The “new commandment” comes into John 13 and the “commandments” in John 14; here they are put into the opposite order. Do you regard the “new commandment” as governing the whole position, so that the way in which we keep the Lord’s “commandments” in detail would be governed overall by the “new commandment”?

AJG I think so. We might have the truth, and be in a position as separated from evil according to 2 Timothy; we might have all the order of the assembly and know it all, but if we have not love amongst ourselves we really have nothing. Paul says, “if I ... have not love, I am nothing.” Hence we can see that while Timothy and Corinthians are of the greatest importance, the “new commandment” of John’s writings is necessary to fill out the whole position.

GAL Does verse 8 of our chapter in a peculiar way stress the importance of the Holy Spirit by which we are made partakers of the divine nature and thus have the capacity to fill this out? That which was true in Christ becomes subjectively true in us.

AJG Yes, I think so. That is what I had in mind in saying that I think one can see more and more that the way that God has met what came in through sin is by entering into the position Himself, first in Christ and then in the Spirit, the Spirit given to the saints.

JMcK When the apostle says “the darkness is passing” is he engaging us with the sphere where this divine work is proceeding in the saints? Is that where it is passing?

AJG Yes, I understand so. It is not passing in the world, for “the whole world lies in the wicked one,” but it is passing in the saints. As the work of God progresses, you can say, more and more, that the darkness is being dispersed.

GRC In Revelation 21 that you referred to this morning it has passed completely.

AJG Yes.

JMcK I was wondering whether the glory of what is brought out in the first chapter, what is manifested and reported, is now having a commensurate answer in the saints as the darkness passes?

AJG That is what is in mind.

HFR Would you say something as to the way the Lord is brought into this, “which thing is true in him,” not was true?

AJG Well, it says in Ephesians 5: 14, “Wake up, thou that sleepest, and arise up from among the dead, and the Christ shall shine upon thee.” Christ is always shining upon us, and the glory of God in His face is shining upon us too, so that love is always shining upon us if we will keep ourselves in the light of it.

HDT Is it remarkable that the character of the love is shown by what the Lord said in John 15: 9, “as the Father has loved me, I also have loved you - abide in my love.”

AJG So that it was the abiding portion of Christ as Man here, that He abode in His Father’s love. But He did it on the principle of keeping His commandments, and now He is suggesting that we should take on exactly the same feature.

HDT Would not that make for the continuance and stability of the whole position?

AJG It would.

HW Would you connect what has just been said, “which thing is true in him and in you,” with the verse in Ephesians 4: 20, 21, “but ye have not thus learnt the Christ, if ye have heard him and been instructed in him according as the truth is in Jesus”?

AJG I think I would, because it involves the putting off of the old, and then the putting on of the new, and Christ is really the setting out of the features of the new.

HW Why does it say “in Jesus” and not “in Christ”?

AJG I think to direct our thoughts to Jesus personally and not simply to Him as in a kind of official position.

CWO'LM What is involved in the expression “the true light”?

AJG I take it it is the true light of God, in contrast to all that is false in the world around. There is a great deal that is false religiously around us today and it was increasing very much in John’s day so that it is a question of the true light.

JMcD Is there a link with what we have here and the true light in John 1, where it is applied to the Lord?

AJG Yes, I think so; quote the verse, please.

JMcD The reference to the Lord Jesus in John 1: 9, “the true light.” Is it the continuation of that now, exactly the same light in the saints?

AJG That is what is in mind, that what came out in Christ is now continued in the children of God.

WSS And it says, “and the true light already shines.” It is not merely that it ought to, but it does shine. Is it not a wonderful thing to realise that?

AJG It is shining, yes; that is the whole point.

ABP Was Paul vitally in the gain of this in 2 Corinthians 4 when death was being taken on in a practical way, and yet he rejoices that while death is working in himself and those with him, life is working in the saints? Is that the way this works out in a practical way in relation to one another?

AJG Yes, it is. Is it not a question of laying down our lives, in principle, for the brethren? It may take many forms, but that is the idea.

ABP He seems to me so in the gain of the light “the God who spoke that out of darkness light should shine.” He speaks of the radiancy of “the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” I wondered if that was what was really sustaining him in his soul and helping him to lay down his life for the brethren?

AJG I am sure that is so. He says there “always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus.” It is not exactly the death of Jesus, but the “dying of Jesus,” as though love carried Jesus as far as that, and Paul was carrying that in his mind and was taking on similar features.

APCL So that does the question of the “occasion of stumbling” in verse 10 flow really out of the matter of our abiding in the light?

AJG Yes, that such an one does not provide any occasion of stumbling.

APCL It is not the erring one in that sense, it is “he that loves his brother abides in light, and there is no occasion of stumbling in him.” Is that not a matter for self-judgment, abiding in the light?

AJG Well, quite so; if one abides in the light one’s movements will be consistent with the light, and they are not likely to cause any occasion of stumbling.

CH There seems to be an immediate connection between love and light; it says, “he that loves his brother abides in light” - it does not say abides in love - and then if he does not love his brother, there is an element of darkness. Can you say a little more about that, because so often when the truth is being pursued or becomes a matter of controversy, often what is personal beclouds the issue?

AJG I suppose it is important if we love our brethren that we should be exercised to abide in the light, otherwise our very influence over our brethren, through loving them, may result in their being turned aside, do you not think?

CH That is really what I wanted to get at, because I am sure we are all concerned to get at the truth, as the governing feature of this section, but do you think it would help greatly if love were in activity at the same time?

AJG Quite so, but all must be governed by the light. God is not only light, but He is “in the light” and the light in which He is now known is to govern us in all our movements.

CH We so often separate it in our minds?

AJG Quite so.

AH Is that seen in the case of Paul and Peter at Antioch?

AJG It is, Paul was governed by the light. He loved his brother, but his love was regulated by the light, and therefore he rebuked his brother when his brother was taking a wrong course.

EJH Does that add to brotherly love, love?

AJG Yes.

HDT Paul would speak in love, of course, would he not?

AJG Oh! he would indeed.

HDT I was thinking of what you have often remarked on in Corinthians, “be vigilant; stand fast in the faith; quit yourselves like men; be strong.” That is a very peremptory word, but it adds, “Let all things ye do be done in love,” 1 Corinthians 16: 13, 14.

AJG Well, quite so, love would govern Paul in his withstanding Peter to the face, but he did withstand him to the face.

HDT Because he was to be blamed?

AJG Yes.

WD When writing to Philemon. Paul says, “for love’s sake,” but he would hold to the truth, whether it be Peter’s ministry or John’s or his own.

AJG I have no doubt that is right, but what are you referring to in relation to Peter’s ministry, and John’s and Paul’s?

WD The name Archippus in verse 2 of that epistle means ‘governor,’ which would link with Peter’s ministry, and Apphia means ‘faithfulness’ which would link with Paul’s ministry and Philemon’s name links with love which would be John’s line.

AJG Paul shines in his epistle to Philemon by the Spirit of Christ that marks him, so that he says to Philemon that if Onesimus owes him anything that was to be put to Paul’s account.

ALRT Do verses 9 and 10 show what a lot hangs upon one’s attitude of heart towards one’s brother? I was thinking of one’s way as to the light and the truth?

AJG I think it is a matter for all of us to bear in mind, and perhaps more so as we get older, that if we become aware of having any influence at all among the saints our responsibility is all the greater to abide in the light and to follow up the truth, or else the very influence we have got may tend to turn the brethren aside.

ABP Does the use of the word ‘brother’ here mean that this is not simply a doctrinal matter, but in our local settings we have the ways and means of working it all out in a practical way?

AJG I am sure that is important, so that it is not a general idea or theoretical idea, but the local company is where the truth is worked out.

Well, we ought to get on to the latter part of the chapter now, and consider John’s word to the fathers and then to the young men and then to the little children, for you can see that spiritual affection is breathed by John in what he says to these different classes among the saints.

PL So that each grade is clothed with family glory and feelings; it prevents the looking down upon the young, do you think?

AJG Indeed, he has more to say to the little children than to any of them, showing the affection there is with him and his care for them. But he first addresses the fathers as though he would keep the divine ideal before the minds of all the brethren, the whole family, for the fathers are characterised as having “known him that is from the beginning,” that is Christ.

PHH Who are the fathers?

AJG Those who are marked by this feature, I would say.

PHH Would that mean maturity through companying with Christ?

AJG Well, I suppose it can be worked out now amongst the saints. There are none, of course, that were in the company of Christ amongst the saints now, but there are fathers who by the Spirit’s work have just got Christ before them. They keep before their minds and hearts the One who is from the beginning as the great standard, do you think?

PHH Yes, I was just thinking that. The thing really shines in John, he saying “my children” means a fatherly element. Would that work out in what has been learnt in the delightful company of Christ being passed on to the family?

AJG Yes.

GRC Was fatherhood, in that way, fully seen in Jesus?

AJG He addresses His disciples as “children” in John 13 and John 21. Is that what you had in mind?

GRC Yes. I had that in mind; He says “He that has seen me has seen the Father.”

AJG Yes.

EJH It speaks about young men, but it does not say anything about old men. The next stage is fathers, I was not thinking of age, but no doubt the thought of a father suggests that he is looking to the next generation and giving the next generation the benefit of his experience and links with God?

AJG Well, quite so. At the end of Psalm 45 it says, “Instead of thy fathers shall be thy sons,” as though as the fathers are removed, so to speak, there should be those able to take their place.

APT Would you help us in regard of the verse “For if ye should have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers.” Is that applicable now?

AJG Well, I think it should be. Fathers are those who have an influence because of their affection for the saints and because of what they are, in moral power, so that they can exemplify the truth.

HDT Do you think it may shine in a relatively young person?

AJG I think it might; I think Timothy was really a father.

HDT It says of Hezekiah, when he was only 25 years old, that he gathered the Levites and addressed them as “My sons, be not now negligent.”

AJG Yes.

APT Paul says, following up that very expression in 1 Corinthians, “For this reason I have sent to you Timotheus, who is my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, who shall put you in mind of my ways as they are in Christ.”

AJG Quite so. Timothy really would bring the father before them in a way, because it would not be exactly an impression of Timothy he would leave, but an impression of Paul.

APT My thought was, without proceeding any further, the difference between the thought of the father and the ten thousand instructors.

AJG That is a word for us all, I am sure. We may all be more or less clear as to the truth and able to set it out, but how far are we able to exemplify the truth and exercise moral influence among the saints because of what we are, and because of our love for the saints?

GAL Do you think the expression “because ye have known him that is from the beginning” really involves the knowledge of the blessed Lord according to His glory in the first chapter of John? Do you think it stresses that side particularly?

AJG What have you in mind when you say according to His glory in John 1?

GAL The glory of His Person and the great glory of the incarnation - God manifest in flesh. It says, “In him was life, and the life was the light of men.”

AJG Well, I think it would involve a definite appreciation of that, and, of course, in all that we say in regard of our appreciation of Christ and our knowledge of Him, the truth as to His Person underlies it all, and is always carried by us. But I think the knowledge of Him that is “from the beginning” really involves a real appreciation of what shone in Him as a Man, the standard of all that is pleasing to God in men.

AWGT Is that in keeping with the scripture in Ephesians, “the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ”?

AJG Yes, and that we are to grow up unto Him in all things.

ABP In Acts 1 Peter says “that of the men who have assembled with us all the time in which the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day in which he was taken up from us.” Does that cover it?

AJG That covers it, I think. It is all that they learned in Christ, and that is what John is insisting on, because he was countering what was then prevalent and is still, of course, prevalent in the Christian profession, that there is such a thing as development. There was the suggestion that what was seen in apostolic days could be added to and improved upon, and he is countering that by insisting that Christianity must take character from that which was from the beginning as set out in Christ.

JTS Does this take us back to verse 1 of the epistle, “that which was from the beginning”? I was wondering whether in regard of this matter we could think of what was said concerning the birth of Jesus in Luke 1: 35, “the holy thing ... which shall be born shall be called Son of God.” That reference looks on to the time of the Lord’s baptism, when He was owned as Son of God, and does that link up with what was said about those who had companied with them all the time from the baptism of John?

AJG I think that is right. The expression “the holy thing” introduces the idea of substance, what is substantial, but then what is born testimony to, and what is the basis of this epistle, is that which they apprehended in Christ from John’s baptism till the time of His being taken up. It was manhood in the features of it pleasing to God that was under their eye from that time till He was taken up.

PHH There was no admonition in this first address, verse 13. John says, “I write to you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write to you, little children, because ye have known the Father.” He does not include any admonition or exhortation, but he does when he goes over it again saying “I have written to you.” Is that in view of the present necessity and what was coming in?

AJG Yes, and, as you say, he has no special exhortation to the fathers. It is sufficient that they have known and know Him that is from the beginning, but they are included in the exhortation in verse 28, “And now, children” - that covers them all - “abide in him.” That is all that is necessary to say to fathers, you might say; if they have known, and know, him that is from the beginning, all that is necessary to say to them is ‘go on like that’ - “abide in him.”

TJG Does not the footnote to the word ‘known’ in verse 13 suggest that a certain state is produced by this knowledge and that that state continues?

AJG Yes, it is important to see that.

CH It also applies to the word ‘overcome,’ does it not?

AJG Quite so.

CWO'LM Is there any difference between “him that is from the beginning” and what has been referred to in chapter 1 “that which was from the beginning”?

AJG It makes it more personal. The thought is the same, that we go back, in our minds, and maintain what was from the beginning, but then it was set out in Christ. It is the Person of Christ that the fathers have in their hearts.

JMcG Beloved Mr. Taylor said that the fathers have come to a right appreciation of Christ as presented in the four Gospels.

AJG I am sure that is the thought. We want all four Gospels to get a full view of Him that is from the beginning. But then if we have got Christ in our hearts, what we have got to do is to “abide in him,” because even though we might be fathers, we are in danger of being turned aside so long as we are here, and therefore we must make up our minds to “abide in him.”

HDT That involves the Lord in His present position, does it not?

AJG Yes, quite so.

EuR What is the import in his saying exactly the same thing twice to the fathers, as to the Son?

AJG Just to stress it, I suppose; that is all that is necessary. But then for the young men, which possibly includes a great many of us, he says, “I have written to you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.” But then he says, “Love not the world, nor the things in the world.” I suppose the word of God abode in them and they had overcome the wicked one in the sense that they were sound in the truth, that is they were not in danger of that of which the little children were in danger, that is, antichristian teaching. They had overcome in that sense, but they were in danger of being overcome by the world.

HAH Would the little children knowing the Father link with the reception in Luke 15?

AJG Well, it links, I take it, with the reception of the Spirit. Every true believer, as having the Holy Spirit, has received a spirit of adoption whereby we cry “Abba, Father”; even the little children know something of that, as having the Spirit.

JSE Would it be right to think of Mr. Darby, at the Plymouth and Bethesda crisis, as shining in the character of a father, cherishing all that was due to Christ, because of his own knowledge of Him?

AJG I am sure that is right. What gave Mr. Darby his power in standing for the truth and in ministering it was his knowledge of Christ. You can see that in his letters and in his ministry.

EJH Why is there a distinction between “the world” and “the things in the world”?

AJG I venture to think that it is “the things in the world” that we are much more in danger of than the world itself. I think, speaking generally, that the saints who are seeking to walk in the truth, are free of the world as a system, but there is considerable danger of bringing the things of the world into the Christian circle. We are therefore told not to love the things that are in the world, and their character is set out for us, and then it says they are not of the Father but of the world. So that the knowledge of the Father, what the Father loves and delights in, is brought in here as salvation from what the young men were in danger of.

ABP Do you think that the classification - “the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life,” is categorising the things which appeal to the man, whether it is body, soul or spirit?

AJG You connect the “lust of the flesh” with the body, “the lust of the eyes” with the soul, and “the pride of life” with the spirit of a man?

ABP Yes.

AJG That is suggestive, I think, if we may refer to the types, the children of Israel were delivered from the world when they were brought out of Egypt, but it was the things of the world they had to face in overcoming Jericho.

AHG Does this reference to children suggest established relationships with the Father right from the early days?

AJG Yes, I would think so. If we take account of the Father, He has a world of His own, and the Son is the centre of it, and the Son gives character to that world, so that all that the Father loves and that is going to give character to His world is to be learned in Christ.

HDT Were you going to say any more about Jericho?

AJG Well, Jericho stood athwart the progress of the people of God as they were about to enter into their inheritance, and I think it is the things of the world that hinder the saints. It may be small things, but they hinder the saints from entering fully into their inheritance.

HDT Was their salvation to remain outside of it all? They encircled it outside, did they not?

AJG Well, yes, but then they had to overthrow it; it had to come down before them. But what it brought to light was that while it was overthrown in power, yet in fact an element of the world was there, in their very midst, with Achan; that came to light. So we find in the apostolic testimony at Pentecost the world was overthrown, you can see that, in the company of the saints. There was a company in which there was no element of the world for the moment, but very soon the principle of Achan appeared with Ananias and Sapphira. So that I am quite sure it is the things of the world, rather than the world itself, that are the great danger of the saints who are walking in separation.

ACSP Does the matter of the hiding with Achan, and the deception with Ananias and Sapphira, link with the darkness you were speaking of this morning?

AJG It would. It is significant that before the matter of Achan had come to light they are confronted by Ai, and they are marked by self-confidence, and think it is only a little town, and so they send only a few men to smite it. That is just the danger, that we get overcome by a little thing; we are not careful enough about little things, and God had to teach them in connection with Ai that they must be careful about little things.

MPS Is it significant that the Lord has so much to say about the world in His prayer to the Father in John 17? There are repeated references to the world, for example, “I have given them thy word, and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, as I am not of the world,” and then again, “They are not of the world, as I am not of the world.” And then He culminates it all by saying, “Righteous Father - and the world has not known thee, but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.”

AJG Hence John in this epistle shows the true character of the world as God sees it. He says, “is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world is passing, and its lust.” Just as later on he says, “the whole world lies in the wicked one.”

FCH Achan spoke about a beautiful mantle of Shinar. Does that suggest that Achan had not judged it?

AJG Quite so, so that it is Christ who is the great portion of the fathers, it is the Father that is brought in in relation to the young men and then it is the unction, the Holy Spirit, who is brought in in relation to the little children. They do know the Father, of course, that is mentioned also, but the Spirit is the great safeguard for the little children, according to this passage.

ABP Why is it referred to as the unction?

AJG I suppose it is the Spirit as particularly affecting the mind, and giving intelligence in the things of God. Would you think so?

ABP Does this word link on with the thought of an unguent? There seems to be a process involved?

PHH It is the same as anointing.

AJG Yes, it seems to be power in relation to the things of God, power to understand the truth and to detect and refuse what is contrary to the truth.

HDT Would it involve the development of what is instinctive?

AJG Yes, I think it does involve that.

GRC Does it not mean in that way that the Holy Spirit equips us with all the five spiritual senses, the sense of smell, taste and touch, hearing and sight spiritually?

AJG Yes, I would think that.

PHH Do you see anything in the use of the word ‘antichrist,’ that is Christ, as a word, meaning ‘the anointed’ and this great paragraph being full of the unction or the anointing. Do you think the unction, in that sense, is the great answer to everything which is coming in against Christ?

AJG Yes, I think so. And while verse 22, no doubt, has a certain Jewish bearing, I think it is important, “Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?” It is that kind of Man that is the anointed of God; we want to keep in mind that Jesus is the Christ. Every antichristian teaching will in some way or another exalt the first man, but Jesus is the Christ and every other man is excluded.

WC Could you say a word as to the character of strength in the young men and the word of God abiding in them? Does that refer to intelligence in the truth?

AJG I am inclined to think so.

WC I was wondering whether the little children have not arrived at that, they have got instincts to preserve them?

AJG I think that is the general bearing of the passage. The young men are sound in the truth, and, therefore, would detect and refuse anything that was antichristian, but the babes or little children are in danger of what is antichristian, but their safeguard lies in the instinctive knowledge they have in the spirit.

PL So they are potentially viewed as on their feet, are they not, in the power of the unction? It is there.

AJG Yes, quite so, potentially.

ABP I wondered if this is not important in relation to the young people amongst us. The truth as to the Spirit has opened a very real exercise as to whether the Spirit is really indwelling, and there may be a disappointment ofttimes that there is not more indication of it in a living practical way. I wondered if it would help if we just stress this matter of what the development is. The Lord Jesus could say in John 4, “The water which I shall give him shall become in him,” and the Lord speaks too of the new wine in the new bottles, because the old bottles would burst; it is not because of what the wine is when it is first put in, but because of the power it develops. I wondered whether that might not be an encouragement to some of our young people to see that it is a matter of a process, which involves sowing to the Spirit and making room for the Spirit and calling upon the Spirit?

AJG I am sure that is important. It helps, I think, to bear in mind that the Spirit is always faithful to Christ and His death, and I think if young ones and those who are older too will keep that in mind, they will find it will help them. He is always faithful to Christ, He would make much of Christ in their hearts, but He would always remind them that the way by which that is really to come into the soul is in the acceptance, more and more, of the full import of His death, which involves the setting aside of what I am according to flesh.

AWGT And would the process that has been suggested be confirmed in the fact that the neuter is used, the unction?

AJG Well, here it is said that “the same unction teaches.” So that while there is instinct, there is also that which becomes intelligent; the unction teaches.

APCL What is involved in “ye have not need that any one should teach you”?

AJG Just that they are made entirely independent of human learning. It does not mean that they do not need teachers whom the Lord has given as gifts to the assembly; it simply means that they are entirely independent of human learning.

APCL Having been brought into a circle where the Spirit Himself resides and where everything flows in Him?

AJG So that a little child having the Spirit, knows far more than the most educated man who has not the Spirit.

JSE Does this “anyone” refer to those outside the family, “Ye have not need that anyone should teach you”?

AJG Yes, I think so. But I suppose, while in no way despising or ignoring gifts, it would help us to cultivate making room for the Spirit, as has been said, so that we are conscious that the Spirit Himself teaches us. It is a most important matter to arrive at the truth in the Spirit. The gifts the Lord may give are just intended to help us on that line.

HDT The gifts the Lord has given convey the light to us, but they do not operate in the soul. It is the Spirit that does that.

AJG Quite so.

PL So that things are only reached substantially and tangibly in the Spirit?

AJG Exactly.