THE SUBSTANTIALITY OF CHRISTIANITY (6)
THE SUBSTANTIALITY OF CHRISTIANITY (6)
AJG It will be noticed that these two epistles, which are of a personal character, emphasise the truth first of all as that which is a bond between us, so that John says that he loves “the elect lady and her children,” and “all who have known the truth” loved them as well, for the truth’s sake, and then in the third epistle John’s children give him joy by reason of their “walking in the truth.” Then further we are to be “fellow-workers with the truth,” and finally the truth itself bears witness to those who are formed by it. The truth therefore has a very important place in these two epistles, and also the thought of “in truth,” so that we have “loving in truth” and “walking in truth.” The epistle, which as one has said is personal in character, contemplates I suppose the working out practically among the saints of the truth of the first epistle and, moreover, it shows (as we might expect, seeing that the truth is involved) that there will be the ceaseless efforts of the enemy against it. The second epistle brings in the enemy seeking to get in from outside, and the necessity for the truth’s sake of being uncompromising in relation to it, and then in the third epistle the enemy seeks to operate from the inside and we have the necessity for going on with what is good in the presence of such.
PL Is that seen femininely in two sisters unnamed and yet honoured in spiritual distinction, “the elect lady” and “thine elect sister” and then seen working out in two brothers, who are named, Gaius and Demetrius - femininely and masculinely?
AJG Very good.
WD Would it be in order to refer to the end of John’s general writings? At the end of the gospel we have the greatness of Christ, at the end of the Revelation we have the greatness of the saints, as in the assembly, and at the end of the first epistle we have the question of keeping ourselves from idols. Does that suggest to us that the position we have arrived at is governed by the greatness of the Person and the greatness of the company and consequently we have to be brought into harmony, and does all that bear on these further two epistles?
AJG Well, that is so undoubtedly.
JAP Is this covered by the expression “according as the truth is in Jesus,” that is, all that has come out in revelation in regard to Him?
AJG Certainly the truth is all out in Christ, He is the great Mediator, but “according as the truth is in Jesus” seems to me to link on especially with the thought of our having put off the old and having put on the new. I should have thought that the expression there “as the truth is in Jesus” in Ephesians 4 is a more limited thought than the great thought of “the truth,” which is the bond between us, and for which we are to stand.
HDT Does it link with 1 John 5: 20, “we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true; and we are in him that is true”? Is this the working out of that?
AJG Yes, especially the references to “in truth,” “loving in truth” and “walking in truth.” That is not quite the same thought as “in the truth,” but rather that our love is rightly regulated, everything being in right balance, so to speak. Our walk is similarly regulated, so that in Ephesians it speaks of our loins being girt about with truth, not exactly “the truth” but “truth,” and God requires truth in the inward parts.
EJH “Speak truth everyone with his neighbour” too?
AJG Yes.
ABP Would this be a great support for our service of praise, the worship of God, to worship “in spirit and truth”?
AJG I was thinking that it seems to be a requirement of God, “God is a spirit, and they who worship him must worship him in spirit and truth.”
PL Does the bringing in of these two sisters in such honour by John bear relation to the bringing in of our sisters into all matters affecting the truth, they representing, in a feminine way, the assembly; matters not being kept in the hands of brothers alone?
AJG That is so. Here the sister addressed in the second epistle has the honoured position of resisting evil doctrine and refusing admission into the house. It is a very striking position that she is entrusted in that way with the defence of the truth in her own sphere, and that, of course, would work out in the assembly being preserved, and I am sure what you say is important, that of recent years it has come to us authoritatively that the sisters are to be brought into all matters regarding the assembly, as being themselves essential component parts of it.
WC Is this the answer to the serpent’s approach to the woman and the lie that brought in all the trouble, God’s triumph at the end in sisters?
AJG That is very good.
JSE Is that why the word ‘woman’ is omitted and two other words are employed? We have “elect lady” and “elect sister.”
AJG They are honoured in that way and not spoken of merely as women.
PHH In what sense is the truth to “be with us to eternity”?
AJG I think it is with us in virtue of the abiding presence with us of the Spirit, so that the Spirit maintains our souls eternally, and we are dependent on Him for it, in the full light of God as known in Christ. Would you think that?
PHH You are referring it back somewhat then to the expression “the Spirit is the truth”?
AJG Yes.
WC We have the two words in the second verse “in us” and “with us.”
AJG The very same words that the Lord uses in John 14.
WC Quite so.
PHH And while all this will be with us in eternity, does the expression “to eternity” mean that throughout time all the necessities, including all the evil, will be amply and fully met by the truth in the Spirit?
AJG I think so. So that what finally remains is just the truth with nothing to contest it.
AB Would the reference to the lady’s children have bearing on the motherly and sisterly element among the saints in view of the protection and nurture of the coming generation, and would it bear on the protection of the household and the assembly?
AJG That is very important. It is striking that in 2 John 4 he says, “I rejoiced greatly that I have found of thy children” - the elect lady’s children “walking in truth,” which is a tribute to her own influence and moral power, whereas in 3 John 4 he says “I have no greater joy than these things that I hear of my children walking in the truth.”
JSE Is this term, “the elect lady,” a kind of verification of the word in 1 Timothy about the women ruling the house?
AJG I was thinking that as we were speaking a moment ago. This second epistle seems to contemplate peculiarly the sphere where the sisters have a special place. As you say, there is the thought of their ruling the house and they have to be watchful as to nothing being allowed in it that is contrary to the truth, and the allusion to her children walking in truth seems to me to be a very great commendation of this sister as testifying to her moral power.
EJH Do you think that might be why they are not named? In the next epistle the brothers are named, and it says “Greet the friends by name” in that epistle. Do you think this might refer to sisters generally, what they should take up?
AJG I think that is so.
ABP Is there any link between this and Luke 15? It occurred to me as you were speaking that it is intimately linked with the Spirit’s operation and yet in the style of a woman and in the house, which seems to be an appropriate setting. I just wondered if there might be a connection?
AJG I think that is very suggestive, so that is it not the Spirit really that preserves the truth against attacks, and yet it is the Spirit here operating in a woman, a sister, in her house?
TJG Would verse 9 of the second epistle, having in mind “whosoever goes forward,” be a satanic imitation of the Spirit’s present voice in the face of the testimony, and in the third epistle, in Diotrephes, have we the debasing of an outstanding lead by dictatorial methods?
AJG I think that would be right.
GRC Could you help as to the bearing of the two words “the faith” and “the truth”? The elect lady seems to be in the conflict for the faith in resisting false doctrine?
AJG The two expressions are very much the same from one point of view, but I think “the faith” is what we embrace, “the truth” is the truth as to God which is entrusted to us to preserve. Would you say that, or have you something further in mind?
GRC No, I have not. I think that helps, but I wish you would say a little more.
AJG Well, “the faith” is what we embrace. We have to have faith and we embrace what is presented to us in testimony and it becomes “the faith” among the saints and it has to be contended for. But this is “the truth,” the truth as to God, you might say; God is in it, although it is worked out among His children.
ABP Are the two seen suggestively here in “the paper” and “the pen”? I noticed that in the second epistle it is “paper and ink,” in the third it is “ink and pen.” I wondered if “the paper” might suggest our receptivity, linking on with what you said as to the faith, “the pen” rather the presentation, linking on with the thought of the truth.
AJG That is very helpful.
APCL Does verse 3 show that there will be sufficiency supplied to carry this out? It is the only time that the salutation is so positive, is it?
AJG It says it “shall be with you,” and is it not one of the fullest salutations? “Grace, ... mercy, peace from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.” It is a most striking salutation for an individual, to a single sister.
APCL I wondered whether if we were prepared to take up the truth, for the truth’s sake, we can be assured that grace shall be with us in that setting?
AJG I am sure that is so. I believe the more we are committed simply to the truth, as you say, for the truth’s sake, the more we shall experience grace and mercy and peace in the detail of our lives and exercises.
GRC And why does it say “the Son of the Father, in truth and love”? Why is the term “in truth” introduced?
AJG I think it is that grace shall be with you, mercy and peace, in truth and love; that is how I would read it.
WC Is that verse like the supplies flowing into the fortress to sustain the position? She is holding the ground, is she not, in her household and amongst her children, and this passage suggests the abundant supplies to hold the position.
AJG Yes. It is very remarkable how the writer of the epistle, the apostle, emphasises truth always, he says “in truth and love.” That is a very important feature, because some who are really opposing the recovery that is characteristic of this last century or more, make much of love and would have the saints surrender the truth for love’s sake. But, in contrast to that, the apostle puts truth first, “in truth and love.”
HFR Does John in speaking of himself as “the elder” indicate the great need of eldership in relation to the truth? While the epistles are written to individuals, the elders would be concerned that the truth might be maintained in our localities?
AJG I think that is right. It is striking that John never calls himself an apostle, but he seems to base his authority on what he was, what he was known to be among the saints as having moral power as an elder. There is an affectionate touch therefore about the way he thus addresses the saints.
JPH Do you make much of receiving “the love of the truth” as in Thessalonians?
AJG That is the ground of condemnation of some, is it not, that they have not received the love of the truth? What is in your mind?
JPH I was just wondering about the positive side of it, that the Spirit of God would give us to love the truth and go in for it. We should seek His help and the help of God to arrive at it in our souls and perhaps be able to help each other. Would that command us as loving it?
AJG Do you think that might involve that it is not a question simply of receiving or accepting the truth mentally, but that it is really loved? We take it home to ourselves in that way.
JPH I thought that.
HDT It is never intended to be a system of theology, is it?
AJG No, it is not. The truth is centred in the Person of Christ, and if the truth is loved it is because Christ is loved.
PL Does this unique expression “the Son of the Father” have peculiar force in relation to what you are saying? I wondered about the Song of Songs presenting the defence of Solomon’s couch; he is referred to in relation to love with his father, is he not?
AJG Yes.
PL Is she one of those “threescore mighty men, ... the mighty of Israel”? Having her sword upon her thigh because of alarm in the nights?
AJG I am sure that is right, and this character of sister, and of course brothers with the same character, are needed all through to the end, are they not?
PL She is a Deborah, is she not, a militant, a feminine vessel?
AJG Quite so, because of alarm in the nights. There may be one alarm and there may be another one very shortly; you never know, and therefore the sword has got to be on the thigh all through the nights.
PL Those who stand by night in the house of the Lord.
AJG That is the other side to it. They stand by night or in the nights, having part in the service of God, do they not? But that must be preceded by standing through the nights with the sword on the thigh, because of alarm.
CJHD Would the exercises of Psalm 119 enter into the household setting? The Psalmist, towards the end of that Psalm, says “The sum of thy word is truth, and every righteous judgment of thine is for ever,” Psalm 119: 160. Would that long Psalm result in our appreciating the truth?
AJG I think it would. “The sum of thy word is truth” is a striking expression and then “every righteous judgment of thine is forever.” In Jeremiah it says that God is truth, “But Jehovah Elohim is truth; he is the living God, and the king of eternity,” Jeremiah 10: 10. God is said to be truth.
PHH Would that be for us in the fulness of revelation?
AJG Yes, I suppose it would.
HCS In Isaiah 65: 16 we have “the God of truth.” “He ... shall bless himself by the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the land shall swear by the God of truth.”
AJG That is very interesting. I think it bears on what we were saying this morning as to “him that is true,” not simply the true God, but that is His character. He is true and it is a most encouraging and comforting thing that God is truth and is spoken of as “Him that is true.” Everything therefore will be established in right moral relations to God and to one another.
APCL But He is not said to be “the truth”?
A.J.G. No. “He is true.”
APCL Yes. Is “the truth,” therefore, the setting out of the matter?
AJG I would think so, first as set out in Christ, then as maintained among the saints by the Spirit.
APCL Answering to what God is as “truth” and “true”?
AJG Quite so.
Ques Are you going to distinguish for us between “walking in truth” and “walking in the truth”?
AJG Well, “walking in truth” is just what we are saying, that everything in our walk is rightly regulated, there is nothing out of balance or out of proportion in it. But “walking in the truth” is that our walk, of course, is governed by the light in which God is known.
AH Is John very particular about that kind of thing, practically, as seen in the way he refers to the report that had got round amongst the brethren? It then says that he himself is true, “his witness is true” (John 21: 24)?
AJG That is striking, because that is one of the most distressing features of the present time, inaccurate reports among the brethren.
JTS In Zechariah 8: 8 we have “I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness” and then later, verse 16, “speak truth every one with his neighbour; execute truth and the judgment of peace in your gates.” Then again, verse 19, “Love ye then truth and peace.” This is to reach a glorious climax, is it not? Are these the matters we are at at the present time?
AJG Yes, I think that is right and I am very thankful for this emphasis on truth, not only the truth, but truth. I believe it begins with our facing exercises with God, as David did in Psalm 51, that God will have truth in the inward parts, and the Spirit, having taken up His abode in us, is one of the greatest helps to the maintenance of that.
EJH Has it not been said that we may speak the truth and yet not speak truth?
AJG Well, we can speak things that are verbally true, and yet, as you say, it may not convey the truth.
EJH Is that not a very dangerous thing?
AJG It is, a baneful thing.
HW Referring to your remark a minute ago about false and inaccurate reports getting about, there is a solemn word at the beginning of Exodus 23 “Thou shalt not accept a false report.” Are we not under obligation to investigate every report that is suspicious that comes to us with regard to any of the saints?
AJG That is so. But even apart from anything that is false or anything that has evil intent in it, there is a great deal of need of watchfulness to be accurate in what is said.
AGH Would reference to Exodus 18 help, please, it speaks of “men of truth”?
AJG That is in keeping with what we are saying. That is what Jethro recommended to Moses.
AGH Yes, “Do thou provide among all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness.”
AJG That is exactly in keeping with what we are saying.
JSE How does this all bear upon Peter’s expression, “the present truth”?
AJG What we have been saying as to “truth” and “truth in the inward parts” is a matter of right moral conditions, but “the present truth,” of course, is that particular feature of the truth (that is what has come out in revelation) which the Spirit of God is particularly pressing upon the saints.
JSE So that this “lady” would be marked by the feature of forward movement as the Spirit developed things amongst the saints. In that way she would have power to carry out the instruction as to those who came to her and were not to be received in the house?
AJG Quite so. They are said to go forward, and they go forward in a wrong way; they go forward as adding to that which was from the beginning, whereas we have to maintain what is from the beginning, which is what this epistle says, “this is love, that we should walk according to his commandments. This is the commandment, according as ye have heard from the beginning, that ye might walk in it.” That has to be maintained, but then there is always the particular feature of the truth that the Spirit is emphasising from time to time and we want to move forward with that, so as to be preserved in the truth.
EuR In 3 John 3 we get “I rejoiced exceedingly when the brethren came and bore testimony to thy holding fast the truth, even as thou walkest in truth,” but in verse 4, “I have no greater joy than these things that I hear of my children walking in the truth.” Would you say a little as to that, “in truth” and “in the truth”?
AJG I think verse 3 is extremely important because the brethren bore testimony to Gaius, and to his holding fast the truth, even as he was walking in truth. If we do not walk in truth we shall find we are not able to hold fast the truth. Sooner or later we shall trip up over the truth, if we are not concerned as to walking in truth. But then John goes on to say “I have no greater joy than these things that I hear of my children walking in the truth,” and that is the way to maintain the truth in testimony, to walk in it.
PL So that moral defection often underlies opposition to the truth?
AJG That is so.
JMcM Would walking in truth be the result of walking in the light as God is in the light?
AJG Yes, I am sure that is so, because “that which makes everything manifest is light.” Light makes everything manifest, and thus, as subject to it continually, we are held in what is morally right, we walk in truth.
HFR The truth is said to be the fruit of the light in Ephesians 5: 9.
AJG Yes, that is very interesting, “the fruit of the light is in all goodness and righteousness and truth.”
APT In connection with the reference to moral defection, the third epistle is evidence of it. John says “I wrote something to the assembly; but Diotrephes, who loves to have the first place among them, receives us not.” Is there something in that?
AJG Quite so. That was the moral root that underlay the opposition, and the Spirit of God exposes it.
AWGT I was wondering if the expression “the upright” is in keeping with truth? In Deuteronomy we get “the upright people.” Would that be in line with what we are saying about speaking truth?
AJG Yes, quite so.
AWR In Amos 7 Jehovah is seen standing on a wall with a plumb-line in His hand and then He says, “I will set a plumb-line in the midst of my people Israel” and then “I will arise against the house of Jeroboam with the sword.”
AJG Well, that is similar in principle, the plumb-line is the assertion of what is right, it is upright or vertical. It is the assertion of the principle of righteousness, and there is a wall. That is, the Lord is showing that the principle of righteousness maintained works out in practical separation; it is really the assertion of the principle of 2 Timothy 2. It is in those who are governed by the principles of 2 Timothy 2, that the Lord is maintaining a testimony against Christendom.
ECM Is that not brought out in Malachi 2: 6 “The law of truth was in his mouth, and unrighteousness was not found in his lips”?
AJG Yes, “the law of truth.” Quite so.
WSS The house is an important element here. Is it not a very important matter the way a household is held in relation to the truth?
AJG It is a very important matter.
WSS I was thinking of our brother’s reference to the fortress and I wondered if our households are to be a kind of fortress where the truth is held and the enemy is held at bay, so to speak?
AJG Hence the need, not only of reading the Scriptures in the house with the family, but also of speaking over them as matters come to our notice,
speaking of them in their moral character, do you think?
WSS Yes. I was thinking that and also what you were referring to earlier in connection with the saying that went about among the brethren. Have we not need of much care in regard to what is said in our homes, in regard to what is current among us?
AJG Yes.
WSS We are perhaps apt to be a little more careless talking in the family circle, than we are when speaking in the meeting, for example. Do we not need great care all the time in dealing with the matters of truth?
AJG I am sure that is a salutary word.
PHH The matter of deception comes in here prominently, verse 7, “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, they who do not confess Jesus Christ coming in flesh - this is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Is that the particular attack and is that the particular matter which needs to be met in the defence of the truth? I was just thinking about Absalom’s movements, in his beauty and attractiveness as diverting David’s people - and insidiously wanting to put himself in office, so to speak. Would that kind of thing need to be guarded against with us?
AJG Yes, I am sure of that. The word ‘deceiver’ shows that the enemy’s effort is to deceive the saints, and then “the antichrist” shows that his objective is to displace Christ, he is against Christ. That is the character of this kind of doctrine; there are many false doctrines that are abroad now, deceiving the saints and opposed to Christ.
PHH It says later on that there were many men who went after Absalom in their simplicity. Is there necessity, therefore, for us to be built up in the truth?
AJG Quite so, and to see that the test as to “Jesus Christ coming in flesh” is applied to what is presented.
PHH Would you just speak about that; I mean we have had it, but what does it mean in this setting?
AJG I think it is similar to what we had in chapter 4 when we were on it; it is the question of the essence of what is presented in teaching. It may have an attractive appearance, it may have the appearance even of what is authoritative because Scriptures are quoted. We have to see what the essence of it is, as to whether it confesses the true deity of Christ and the true manhood of Christ and the absolute need for the setting aside of the first man. All that, I believe, is involved in “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.”
EJH Have not many of our sisters to meet this deception at the door, while their husbands are away?
AJG That often happens.
AHG Would that setting aside, of which you speak, be involved in this “doctrine of the Christ,” verses 9, 10 and 11 bringing in this matter of doctrine?
AJG Yes, I think it is involved, because, as we said before, there is only one Christ, the Christ, and that is exclusive of every other man. Everything thus that is of God now is to be gathered up in the Christ and to take character from Him.
APCL In verse 8 it says “See to yourselves”; does he widen out to include the children in that? It is a plural matter, so that it is not only “the elect lady” answering for them, but are they not brought into the matter?
AJG I would think so. As you say, he is addressing not only the elect lady, but her children, “See to yourselves, that we may not lose what we have wrought, but may receive full wages.” That is a remarkable consideration to put before the saints, that the labourers who present the truth to us are looking for full wages, judged according to results of their work.
APCL It seems to suggest a community in the house corresponding somewhat to the community amongst the saints?
AJG Yes, I would think that.
AH Does Paul guard against this in 2 Timothy 3 where he speaks of persons “getting into houses” and then goes on and says “in the same manner in which James and Jambres withstood Moses, thus these also withstand the truth,” as if they are doing it first of all in the houses?
AJG Well, that is significant.
WC Would not the reverse be profitable too, to welcome the brethren who can bring the right doctrine? Would that help the children in strengthening the position in the household?
AJG That is very good. There is nothing like letting the children have intercourse with the saints, and bringing those who are worthy and spiritual into the house.
ABP Households like this would be seen established in Acts 16, would you say?
AJG I would indeed. So that when Paul and Silas are released from prison they go to Lydia, do they not?
ABP Yes. Do you think that Lydia was taking on current ministry and opening her house to what was right? The jailor is influencing his house; he “rejoiced householdly.”
AJG Quite so. Lydia proves the worth of her house to be entered into by first having attended to the things spoken by Paul.
GRC So do our households afford scope for working out of the new commandment according to verse 5? Practical love amongst the saints works out a good deal in hospitality and care in the homes?
AJG It does, and along with that is the need of very great care in regard of the truth and not allowing what is contrary to it.
GRC I was thinking that, so that the idea of an open house, in the sense of letting anything in, is not exactly right?
AJG No. It is open to those who go forth for the name, as we have in the third epistle.
GWB Do not the tents of Dathan and Abiram figure significantly in connection with the rebellion, in Numbers 16? I was wondering too, on the other hand, whether the blessing through Balaam in connection with the tents and the tabernacles would show what is open to us?
AJG Quite so. It says “Dathan and Abiram came out, and stood in the entrance of their tents, and their wives, and their sons, and their little ones.” The word to the assembly was “Depart, I pray you, from the tents of these wicked men, and touch nothing of theirs, lest ye perish in all their sins.” It is as though any uprising against Christ, or against the truth, tends to influence the whole household and all that is connected with it.
PHH “Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be. Blessed above women in the tent!” - the way she dealt with the enemy? It says at the end of the song in Judges 5 “so let all thine enemies perish. Jehovah! But let them that love him be as the rising of the sun in its might. And the land had rest forty years.” Would that fit into this a little?
AJG It would, I think. The evil was dealt with in the tent and the result was rest for the people of God.
RGB So is it not important to see that the local company is largely comprised of households and, therefore, the strength and integrity of the household make for the strength and integrity of the local position.
AJG That is very important.
RJW Was it not those of the house of Chloe who brought the report to Paul?
AJG Yes, and Paul not only makes mention of that house but he mentions the house of Stephanas, that they, not Stephanas, but they, the household, the family, had devoted themselves to the saints for service.
WSS It would be good if all our houses were like the Israelites’ tents which faced the tabernacle. If all our houses had an assembly outlook, and there was always found an assembly outlook in our homes, it would be good, would it not?
AJG Yes, and governed by the thought of serving God acceptably continually.
WSS Yes.
PL Would you extend this reference to the threatened invasion of households to books as well as to persons?
AJG Yes, certainly. What have you in mind?
PL Well, the menace which present worldly authors furnish in the introduction of what is false to Christ?
AJG Quite so. It may not be openly opposed to Christ, but it always makes much of man and his world, does it not, and therefore it really has the effect of displacing Christ and the things of God.
GAL I thought what you were saying about the freely speaking of the things of God, of the holy Scriptures and the truth amongst members of the family, so that it is enjoyed as a part of our common heritage, is very important. One likes to feel that the children grow up in the truth as though it is part of their inheritance.
AJG Quite so, and yet we need to be watchful that they are spoken of in a holy way, do we not?
GAL Exactly.
HDT When you referred just now to reading the Scriptures, you added the word ‘speaking about them.’ You had something, I expect, in mind?
AJG Oh! nothing specific; we do not want to be legal or lay down what should be done, but it is a good thing not only to read the Scriptures but to speak about them if possible and when there is opportunity, not merely in a formal, but in an informal way.
HDT Well, I was thinking that it is a custom in some parts that the Scriptures are read pretty well at every meal, but practically nothing is said about them. Often a little less read, and a little comment in the power of the Spirit, would be much more acceptable.
AJG Quite so. Then as things arise, or things come under notice in the world, or it may be what is met with at school, and so on, it is a great thing to see what the Scriptures have to say about them, do you not think?
HDT I do indeed.
WSS So in Deuteronomy 11: 19 it says, “Ye shall teach them unto your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou goest on the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up,” and so on. It is really the life, is it not?
AJG It is.
GAL And the Lord blessed the house of Obed-Edom because of the ark of God. Is that not very important?
AJG Yes. It says in one scripture that the ark remained with the family of Obed-Edom.
JH Will you please say something about the greeting in addition to that? It is not only “do not receive him into the house,” but “greet him not”; and then the solemnity of the word, “for he who greets him partakes in his wicked works.” It is in contrast to “Greet the friends by name” and “The friends greet thee” to Gaius.
AJG I think that is very important, because we may get into the way of greeting lightly, but anyone bringing false doctrine is not to be greeted. You do not say ‘Good-bye’ to him. He just has to leave; you do not say ‘Good-bye’ to him, because ‘Good-bye’ means really, ‘God be with you.’ Nearly all these persons spreading literature, which may refer to Jehovah and that kind of thing, consistently deny the deity of the Son, do they not?
AJG Quite so.
EuR Is not that the great test?
AJG Well, the deity of Christ and the true manhood of Christ, and the necessity for the first man to be set aside; I believe we need to hold all that as the real test of the doctrine.
EuR There was a case in Sweden years ago of a sister who discerned that a man professing to serve the Lord among His people was characterised by bad doctrine, and the result was he was spoken to by the brethren and other meetings were informed and the saints were delivered from him. That would be a good illustration of a sister of this kind, would it not?
AJG It would indeed.
JAP Does this suggest that the whole scope of the truth has come out in the apostles?
AJG Yes, I think there is no doubt about that. It has all come out with the apostles, and what we are enjoying is the recovery of it, because it was almost entirely lost, and now we are enjoying the recovery of it.
JSE Is the emphasis not so much on what has come out, but the way what has come out is maintained?
AJG That is the important matter. Perhaps we might pass on now to the third epistle, because we get the positive feature of hospitality “wrought towards the brethren, and that strangers (who have witnessed of thy love before the assembly)” and so on.
WHR Would you say one word upon the 9th verse of the second epistle, as to the danger of going forward in a wrong way in connection with false developments of the truth, and what it is to have the Father and the Son?
AJG Those going forward in a wrong way are those who think that you can add to what came out at the beginning, and so they do not abide in the doctrine of the Christ. But then it says, “He that abides in the doctrine, he has both the Father and the Son.” I take it, that means that you are kept in the enjoyment of the revelation of God in Christ.
EJM Does it link with the word in John 14 as to the Lord’s promise to the one who keeps His commandment? The Lord says “my Father ... will come to him and we will come to him and make our abode with him.”
AJG I think we referred to that a day or two ago. That really goes further than keeping His commandments; it involves keeping His word. “If any one love me, he will keep my word,” the Lord says, “and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him.”
FCH In the first epistle it speaks of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit; in the second epistle it refers to the Father and the Son only; and then in the third epistle it refers to God. How does that bear upon the question of the Name?
AJG I would not like to think that the second epistle involves any lack of completeness. It says in the 9th verse, “Whosoever goes forward and abides not in the doctrine of the Christ has not God. He that abides in the doctrine, he has both the Father and the Son.” That is the way in which God is known, as Father revealed in the Son, and, of course, you imply that it includes the Holy Spirit because it is by the Spirit that these things are made good in us.
FCH It leads up to God alone in the last epistle. I wondered if that linked up with what you had in mind, the ultimate being a question of what is of God.
AJG Quite so. But as regards “the Name” in the third epistle we could rightly say that that is the full name in which God is known.
HB What is the name? I was thinking of the verse where it says (3 John 8) “for for the name have they gone forth, taking nothing of those of the nations.”
AJG That is just what we are referring to, that it is the truth of God now. The full light of Christianity is involved, I think, in what was in their hearts in going forth. It is a remarkable expression, “the name,” by itself. As far as I know, we get it only once more in Scripture, and that is in Leviticus 24.
FCM Could we have a word on what is said, “Gaius, whom I love in truth.”
AJG That is in keeping with what we have been saying as to the importance of “in truth.” It is not only in the truth but “in truth,” “whom I love in truth,” and “as thou walkest in truth.”
PHH Would you say some more about the going forth “for the name.” The name is given to us in full, I suppose, in Matthew 28, and there is a question of baptising to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Does this mention of the name mean that it lies behind their going forth, the power of it and the leverage for it?
AJG I think it means that it enters into their testimony. Their service has in view the name, that is, the spread of the knowledge of God as He is now known.
WC Is the idea of “going forth” a levitical thought?’ According to the end of Mark it says that they went forth.
AJG Yes. That is how I understand it.
WC Would it link on with the care of the Levites?
AJG Yes, clearly. Here these have gone forth, like those that we read of in Acts 8, who went forth on their own initiative. These went forth, dependent on God, taking nothing of the nations.
GRC In Acts 5 it says the apostles rejoiced that they were counted worthy to be dishonoured for the name.
AJG I suppose that would be probably for the name of Christ.
GRC I wondered there whether it was the name of Jesus, showing that He has a peculiar place in the testimonial sphere, that His name is called the name. He is God, is He not?
AJG Yes. I am glad you have drawn attention to that, because I had overlooked that expression in Acts 5: 41, “that they were counted worthy to be dishonoured for the name.”
WCP Would you mind saying, please, what is meant by “the excellent name” in James 2: 7, “Do not they blaspheme the excellent name which has been called upon you?”
AJG “Name ... called upon you,” I suppose, refers to the name that was called upon them at their baptism. What would you say to that?
WCP I was wondering just that myself.
WC It does say in Acts 5: 40, “enjoined them not to speak in the name of Jesus,” and then it says in the next verse, “rejoicing that they were counted worthy to be dishonoured for the name.”
AJG Yes. That is why I think it evidently is the name of Jesus there.
AHG Would this going forth here for the name be in all the wealth of what had been acquired in the house setting and also in the assembly that is referred to here, so that it is the full wealth of the name that they go forward in?
AJG It would be supported, of course, by houses such as those of the elect lady that we have been speaking of, but the name, I take it, is the testimony, it is what is here. It is the testimony as to the way God has come out, and that was what they went out for, they went out to carry it and to spread it.
WC Does this indicate to us that there would be those thus going forth to the end to minister the full truth, but at the same time there would be opposition. John goes on to speak of Diotrephes not receiving them.
AJG Exactly.
WC We ought to receive them, but is that a test as to the ministry in its full bearing, and how it is received - whether it is in localities or houses?
AJG Quite so. If God has given any of us houses, they are houses that are to be held in relation to His testimony, and are to be available on the line of impartiality, receiving those who are bound up with the truth.
EJH And they are said to be “fellow-workers with the truth.” Is that not a very great encouragement to the brethren generally, that if they have a living part in the testimony in any way they are not only helpers but they are workers with the truth?
AJG Yes, I think it is. “Fellow-workers with the truth.”
PL Mark makes so much of sympathetic households in connection with the testimony, and it is the great levitical gospel, is it not? Has that a great place in our closing day, Mark appearing at the end of 2 Timothy?
AJG Quite so. I suppose Mark had been brought up to it by his mother, for his mother’s house is referred to in Jerusalem. Peter went to it when he was released.
TJG Would you say something about the two references to the assembly in this epistle, the one being the commendation of good qualities and the other the casting out of good qualities?
WC There are three, are there not? Verses 6, 9 and 10. Is it not remarkable, that these are the only times, I believe, that John mentions the word ‘assembly’ in his gospel and epistles? Would it link on with the last chapter of Revelation, the end there would be the assembly functioning universally? It is remarkable that he should mention it in this last epistle. There is the idea of the going in by the gates, into the city, in a present setting.
AJG Quite so. We get his mentioning the angel of the assembly in the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Revelation, but it is striking that while he stresses the family side of things in his first epistle and these epistles, yet be brings in the assembly here. They “witnessed of thy love before the assembly.”
PHH Would that show that the condition of things you have been speaking about would affect the assembly, either for good, normally, or possibly for evil?
AJG Yes, and it shows that he is in no sense ignoring the assembly. He is dealing rather with what it is constitutionally in those who compose it, but now in this third epistle he formally recognises the assembly.
APCL Would that reference in verse 6 perhaps apply to things that might be very simply said, before a prayer meeting and the like?
AJG Well, quite so. We do not want to be formal about these things. They “witnessed of thy love before the assembly.” You could not have a greater company than that to be commended to, could you?
APCL Quite so.
AH Would you add a word as to that remarkable expression “worthily of God”? Do you take it that he was providing them with the means for sustenance?
AJG Yes, I would think so. It looks as though they went forth dependent on God, and God honoured their faith through the saints. It is a great thing to be available to God for that. It is like the widow in 1 Timothy 5. We get very few marked by those features now, because there is so much in the way of State provision and so on, but in 1 Timothy 5 you have a widow who is desolate and has her whole confidence in God, and she is answered by the assembly; the assembly takes her on, and accepts responsibility for her. So that it shows how important the assembly is, as representing God in care.
GAL And would the “strangers” be brethren who may not have been known personally previously?
AJG Yes, I think so, as though the truth was just the bond between Gaius and those who came to him.
CJHD Would Genesis 18 give us an example of the setting forward worthily of God? Abraham says to his visitors, “refresh yourselves; after that ye shall pass on.”
AJG That is good. Abraham there says, “Let now a little water be fetched ... . And I will fetch a morsel of bread; and refresh yourselves”; but actually he took “thick and sweet milk, and the calf that he had dressed,” and so on. So that it was more than water and a morsel, was it not? He was treating them worthily of God.
CJHD And I thought it was in view of the passing on, and the great matters that were before God, we may say reverently - Sodom, but what lies beyond judgment, the glory.
AJG Yes.
WSS Do not these verses 6, 7 and 8 place a responsibility upon us in regard to our attitude towards the ministry and those who minister?
AJG Yes, they do indeed.
WSS We may look upon it as something belonging to a previous period, but is it not for the present time?
AJG Yes, it certainly is.
EuR Being with the truth calls for constant movement and adjustment?
AJG Yes, and fellow-workers with it. It almost seems as though the truth is presented as working, but we are to be fellow-workers with it.
WSS It is not optional, is it?
AJG No. It says, “We therefore ought to receive such, that we may be fellow-workers with the truth.”
EJB A little while ago you spoke of what the Spirit was particularly emphasising in the truth, at any given time. Is that linked up with “the name” at the present time, the understanding of it?
AJG I think so. I think the Spirit of God is specially emphasising our getting into the fulness that is involved in the name, and reaching, in our own consciousness, God in His own blessedness.
EJB And it is a great thing to be fellow-workers with that?
AJG Quite so.
CWC In that connection I was wondering (if it would not be going back) if you would mind saying a word as to the expression in John 17, “the only true God.” There has been an effort to make out that if the Father is the only true God, no one else can be.
AJG That will not do. That is met by the verse we had in the epistle this morning, “He “that is, God’s Son, Jesus Christ - “He is the true God and eternal life.” So that it will not do to take up one scripture to the exclusion of another.
CWC I was thinking of the expression as to the Spirit, guiding into all the truth.
AJG Quite so, “all the truth.”
ABP Might there be a link here in the coordination of the truth and the ministry? Would Paul and his company be included in these? He speaks in Romans 16 of “Gaius, my host.”
AJG Very possibly. It is clear that Gaius had entertained Paul.
Ques According to John 19 the Lord Jesus commended his mother to the care of John, at Golgotha, and John took her to his own home. Then we see the mother of Jesus in the upper room in the beginning of Acts. I am just wondering whether she was serviceable in the upper room, in the beginning of Acts, and whether that means that the truth would be found in John’s home?
AJG Exactly, and I have no doubt she would be a great help to John. John would be a great help to her, in caring for her, but she would be an immense help to John, because she had wealth from her personal knowledge of Jesus from the very beginning that John could not possibly have.
LF You were speaking as to the matter of being fellow-workers with the truth, is there not instruction for us in seeing that immediately the matter of good and evil is raised, and that is to be taken account of in the only place where it can be dealt with in accordance with the truth, in the assembly itself.
AJG Quite so. You mean that in connection with this matter of working with the truth, immediately this opposition comes in with Diotrephes? Is that what you have in mind?
LF Yes, I was thinking that these matters really resolve themselves into one of two, good or evil, and that is worked out in the assembly. It seems to come in wonderfully here in regard to what we have had so much before us as to the maintenance of “the truth.”
AJG Quite so. It is striking that while John never calls himself an apostle this becomes an occasion for him to speak with authority as an apostle. He says, “For this reason, if I come, I will bring to remembrance his works which he does, babbling against us with wicked words.” It is very similar to Paul in the last chapter of 2 Corinthians. Paul speaks of his coming, and how he would deal with any evil that was unjudged. While therefore, whether in administrative matters or whether in the truth according to John’s line, the Lord may wait long and bear long with opposition, sooner or later He will come into the matter and deal with it if it is not judged.
PHH And its being left like this, does it mean that it is giving us an opportunity to arrive at a right judgment about it?
AJG Yes, I think so. It is striking that apparently, in the very locality where Diotrephes was, there was Demetrius, setting forth, in his presence, the maintenance of the truth.
ECL Would you say that Demetrius had been formed by the truth? You were speaking at the beginning of the meeting of what was substantially in the saints.
AJG Yes, I think so. Demetrius is a most interesting man, because the apostle says of him that he “has witness borne to him by all, and by the truth itself” - the truth bears witness to Demetrius. In the ordinary way we might say that, Demetrius would be bearing witness to the truth, but here the truth is bearing witness to Demetrius. It is as though if you took account of the truth abstractly, and then looked at Demetrius, there would be no disparity between the two.
TJG Is it of interest that after having stated about Diotrephes, the apostle says, “Beloved, do not imitate what is evil,” as though the dominant personality of Diotrephes is dangerously infectious?
AJG Yes, that is so. So we are to go on with good, and we know good in God, and he that does good is of God.
WC Demetrius seems to be like a pillar, does he not? It does not say that he does anything, but it is what he is.
AJG Quite so.
Ques Does that bring out the importance of the local position especially in regard to those who serve, and who may not be borne witness to by the truth. The position is held by the local assembly, and if persons go forth who are not fully committed to the truth, there is likely to be damage done. Then, on the other side, if they are fully committed to the truth there will be something for God in it.
Rem I think what our brother has in mind is that in our local positions we should be watchful whom we invite, because some are not fully committed to the truth, and if they are invited around they may do damage.
AJG That is important.
APB May I ask whether there is the other side, that the meeting from whom a servant goes forth to serve has a certain responsibility as to putting their hands on him?
AJG Yes, I think that is right. Although every servant stands in relation to the Lord in his service, yet he has his place in his own local assembly. So that the gifts are set in the assembly, it says in Corinthians; as though the assembly is there as having a certain oversight. It is not that the assembly directs them in their service, but at the same time they are accountable to it.
AWGT How can that work practically?
AJG If a servant was putting out what was contrary to the truth, and was not adjusted by the brethren personally approaching him, it would be his local company who would have to take it up.
GRC So that the assembly is “the pillar and base of the truth,” and is responsible for what is put out, in that sense.
GCS Does that show the value of our care meetings? It is not one or two brothers, it is all the brethren?
AJG Quite so.
GCS Very often an objection comes from a brother perhaps that is not thought much of.
AJG That is what is so important, that we recognise that when all the saints are together there is abundant scope for the sovereignty of the Spirit. So He gives to one the word of wisdom, and to another the word of knowledge, and to a different one something else. We cannot therefore dictate to the Spirit that He must use one or other particular brothers, but it is in His hand as to where the word of knowledge or the word of wisdom comes from.
HDT So that the Spirit dwells in the body, not merely in the gifts.
AJG Exactly, and you find that the body of the saints, taken as a whole, are for the truth, and with it.
MPS In Acts 14: 26 it says of Paul and Silas that “they sailed away to Antioch, whence they had been committed to the grace of God for the work which they had fulfilled.” Does that bear upon what has just been said?
AJG I think so. They came back to the assembly from which they had been committed, and they had fulfilled the work which was entrusted to them.
APT The fact that the word ‘assembly’ is mentioned three times here must have some spiritual significance. Is not the local position a very important matter?
AJG It is, and Diotrephes was even assuming to cast some out of the assembly. Yet in the presence of those conditions apparently, Gaius and Demetrius were standing, and you may rest assured that the Spirit of God will support those who stand by what is of God.
APT I was wondering if there was anything important in the statement “I wrote something to the assembly.” It is not unfolded, but the truth is there. There would be the importance of John in this connection with the assembly, the authoritative side in it. The local brethren would appreciate what he had to say.
AJG I have no doubt they would, and if Diotrephes refused to receive John, there would be those in the assembly that would stand up against it sooner or later.
JH-s Is it significant in that regard that the word finally to the overcomer is, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies.”
AJG That is to say, you lend an ear to what the Spirit is saying, and not to that which is contrary to it. He is saying it to the assemblies; that is, all the assemblies.
APCL In the initial sending forth of the servants in Acts 13, the assembly there having been constituted, there is the Spirit’s distinctive selection and calling, and then the sending, but then do not the brethren come into it, “Then, having fasted and prayed, and having laid their hands on them, they let them go.” In one sense they are sent forth by the Holy Spirit, but is there not something very definite in the responsibility of the local company?
AJG I think there is.
WC Does not this reference to “if I come” remind us of the principle of a time limit in relation to matters of evil?
AJG I think so.
WC That we are not to go on with things indefinitely?
AJG No. We have that same principle in Corinthians in relation to epistles that deal with administrative matters, and in this epistle of John in relation to family matters.
MPS Does it help to remind ourselves at the close that the apostle wrote all these things that our joy might be full?
AJG That is important, I am sure, that he has in mind that our joy should be full, and that is just as we are in the full light in which God is known and fully responding to it.