THE SPIRIT'S DISTRIBUTIONS AND INDICATIONS
THE SPIRIT’S DISTRIBUTIONS AND INDICATIONS
Hebrews 2:4; 1 Timothy 4:1 - 5; Acts 16:6,7
JT What is in mind is to seek to bring out that the presence of the Spirit on earth implies signs of the times, indications, too, as to how long the dispensation may continue. There are two lines of things in that respect — what is in heaven and Christ being there, the movements there — and what is here in the Spirit. It is thought that these three scriptures put together will serve to bring out the truth in this connection. First, in Hebrews, the distributions of the Holy Spirit, and then how He speaks, as it is said, expressly, in relation to what we may call prophetic truth, that is, the latter times; and then how He indicates territorially where the service of testimony to God is to proceed. That is, Acts 15 records certain things that happened, as Paul and Barnabas going up to Jerusalem; then after the council at Jerusalem the Holy Spirit in chapter 16 interrupted Paul and Silas, forbidding them to go to a certain place, and then not suffering them to go, as it is said, to other places. That brings out the territorial side of the matter — because the history of the testimony since Pentecost shows that certain territory has been in mind. There has been discrimination as to what territory should become fields of service. Other territory, we might say, has been left out according to the principle of the scriptures read in Acts 16.
The distributions of the Spirit are first to be considered. They are mentioned in relation to “signs and wonders, and various acts of power, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to his will” (Hebrews 2:4). The distributions of the Spirit are to be noticed in many countries — the activity and sense of [p. 248] gift or ability in service. These gifts or distributions are not for heaven, not merely for formation in the saints generally, but for testimony, and we are to gather, as it is said, “Assuredly gathering”, that if they exist the Lord must have something in mind as to further service.
AR Are you thinking of how the Spirit has been operating under the British flag?
JT Yes, indicating territory. Interference by the Spirit in Acts 16 shows that the servant was in mind, because accompanying these interferences by the Spirit there was a vision; a man from Macedonia appeared to Paul saying, “Pass over into Macedonia and help us” (verse 9). That is territory. The servant is invited over. That would mean the way has been made for him governmentally. It is not a direct action of the Spirit, and the indication territorially is very clear. It is toward the west. It has continued there ever since, spreading out to this part of the globe.
WR It is hard to understand the Lord’s commission to His disciples in Matthew 28:19: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”. That is to all the nations. Does something come in there between that and Acts 16?
JT There is a scripture more comprehensive than that. In Mark 16:15 it says, “Go into all the world, and preach the glad tidings to all the creation”. That is the great general indication of the sphere of the operations of servants, but then there are levitical principles that come into those general directions from the Lord as to where each is to go; and even if he does not seek it, the Lord may interfere and indicate where he is to go. It is not left open. It is not a matter for the servant to go anywhere or everywhere as he might wish. The [p. 249] levitical law provides that the servants are to be governed by levitical principles.
AAT Is New Zealand east or west?
JT We would call it east from here, and possibly from Europe they would call it east; it might be west from here, of course, but usually it is east. That is, we begin with a certain meridian, but that is a little beyond what we intended to speak of, but it certainly enters into it, because the points of the compass have a place in the divine economy.
RWS Are distributions of the Holy Spirit sovereign by Himself? In the scripture in Hebrews it says, “God bearing, besides, witness with them to it, both by signs and wonders, and various acts of power, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to his will?” Would that be God’s will? In the other scriptures it is the Holy Spirit Himself acting from Himself.
JT Quite so. “But the Spirit speaks expressly”. That is the Spirit Himself acting of Himself, and so, too, in Acts 16. The Spirit is sovereign, too, in His actions, but that would be, as it were, subordinate to the great general thought of divine sovereignty; but the Spirit is here in obedience, as the Son was, and the Spirit operates in obedience to the Father, but still They are both divine Persons and act sovereignly, too.
CN Do the distributions of the Holy Spirit come under the heading of 1 Corinthians 12, that speaks of no one saying, Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Spirit; and then, there are distinctions of gifts but the same Spirit. Are these the distributions?
JT Just so. We have there the Father, the Son and the Spirit alluded to; God and the Lord and the Spirit in that chapter. That is, the economy has to be borne in mind in all that we say, because the economy is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. You could not reverse that and say the Holy [p. 250] Spirit and the Son and the Father. You have to use the language of the Scriptures to convey the Trinity, because the Trinity is seen in an economy now. It has to be regarded, too, abstractly; each Person being equal with the Others, which is beyond us; it is inscrutable; but the economy we can understand. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit is the order in which the truth of the Trinity is presented. The baptismal formula helps us as to the order of the economy. “To the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). That is the public position. But the inner position is Ephesians 4:4,5: “There is one body and one Spirit, as ye have been also called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism”. Those are the two first concentric circles in the economy, and then finally, “one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all” (verse 6). The latter circle is clearly that which has to do with the outer world. God controls everything, but it subserves the inner: “one body and one Spirit, ... one hope of your calling”. That is the inner, so to say, vital circle which enters into all our assembly services.
RWS Is it the third circle you had in mind? “One God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all”.
JT That is the outer circle. We would not confine ourselves to that, but it is well to have it in mind, so that we may be balanced. We are now speaking of the distributions of the Holy Spirit. That is in the chapter in Hebrews, and that is God’s action. The chapter begins thus: “For this reason we should give heed more abundantly to the things we have heard, lest in any way we should slip away. For if the word which was spoken by angels was firm, and every transgression and disobedience received just retribution, how shall we escape if we have been [p. 251] negligent of so great salvation, which, having had its commencement in being spoken of by the Lord, has been confirmed to us by those who have heard; God bearing, besides, witness with them to it, both by signs and wonders, and various acts of power, and distributions of the Holy Spirit, according to his will?” That is the position. These verses really allude to the danger of apostasy that beset the Hebrew Christians. There is a warning in them and the positive side includes the distributions of the Holy Spirit that God gave for their guidance and help.
Ques Does this refer to Acts 2, the distributions of the Holy Spirit?
JT Quite so. There were various distributions as He came in. We have already alluded to 1 Corinthians 12:28: “And God has set certain in the assembly: first, apostles; secondly prophets; thirdly, teachers”, etc.
JHE The apostle puts this in the form of a question requiring us to give the answer. There is a question-mark after verse 4, as if he would ask all of us to give the answer to it. We should know the answer.
JT It is a question of a challenge. “For if the word which was spoken by angels was firm, ... how shall we escape ... ?” That is where the question begins. The ‘how’ is alluded to in the question-mark; “how shall we escape?” It is a question for everyone not to slip away.
ABP Does the word ‘distributions’ have in mind where the helps are set?
JT That is what I was thinking of; where they are placed. They were placed first in Jerusalem. That is, the Lord said, “Do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24:49). That is an allusion to the Spirit Himself coming, but at the same time, the apostles came in first for the distributions. Distribution involves more [p. 252] than simply the gift of the Spirit. The word ‘distributions’ would refer to the Spirit operating in certain ones whom God would use. These, when they begin to function, would come under other law; that is, levitical law, as to where they should go, and the spiritual would discern that the Spirit was giving guidance; not simply that the servants got guidance from heaven but the Spirit would affect them so that they got inward guidance. Hence you get the Spirit saying certain things to Philip, for instance; and you get the Spirit catching him away, so that he should not continue to accompany the eunuch south. He was found at Azotus, in another section. That was territorial.
Ques Is the Spirit here to be viewed as a divine Person down here acting for Himself, or as delegated?
JT I would not say altogether delegated. He is delegated. It says, “Those who have declared to you the glad tidings by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven” (1 Peter 1:12), meaning He was under orders. We have to speak reverently about a divine Person, but if They take these positions and act in them and speak in them, we are entitled to speak of Them in that way. So that He was sent down. It is never said the Son was sent down. It is the Spirit that is sent down. The Son is always said to have come down. But He is here under orders, because He speaks to His Father as sent; but it is sent on earth; it is from the time of the incarnation. The sending is from some position on the earth, because he did not begin to operate until he was thirty years of age.
Ques Would you include Acts 13 in the distribution?
JT They were already functioning. It is a question of territory, so He says, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them” (Acts 13:2). Then the assembly laid their hands on them. They did not send them out.
[p. 253] The Holy Spirit sent them out. All these principles are important, because they are trespassed upon by missionary practices of ordinary Christendom.
ABP Did you have in mind that there are distributions of the Spirit over certain spheres in which the testimony is set? It seems to be an indication that God has something more in mind to do, to carry on. I rather gathered from your opening remarks that you had something like that in mind, that there was an indication that God had something more in mind to do through these distributions, that He might continue the present dispensation a little longer.
JT That is what I thought exactly.
ABP Distributions would suggest that you see that working generally throughout the sphere of the testimony, is that right?
JT Just so. The word ‘distributions’ here would mean that, and then that the Spirit was received as He is by every believer, of course. To all who obey, the Spirit is given. But I think distribution goes beyond that. I think there are signs of this distribution now. Of course, there have always been, especially since the revival, but I believe there have been special evidences of it lately.
A.A.T. In what way?
JT Well, we have eyes to see and ears to hear; especially in this part of the world and in the British Isles and in Australia and New Zealand — we should know that there are such distributions. That is, ability to minister. The ability to minister is not needed for heaven. If we were all going to be translated you would hardly expect it. You need it for earth.
AAT There is a thought running through my mind as to the distributions of the Spirit and the anointing as the Lord was anointed. Is there [p. 254] a distinction?
JT Anointing is a different word. The Lord was anointed. “And I have anointed my king upon Zion, the hill of my holiness” (Psalm 2:6). That alludes to the holy anointing of Christ. God is asserting His right to appoint an officer. Peter says, “God anointed him”. And, “he went about doing good” (Acts 10:38). That was evidence that He was an anointed Person. Distribution may involve that, but it does not go so far as the idea of the anointing. Anointing is divine committal to the Person.
ABP The scripture goes on to say, “Because God was with him”.
JT That would show that God had committed Himself to Him. He “went through all quarters doing good, and healing all that were under the power of the devil, because God was with him”.
GL There is a certain difference in the movements of the apostle Paul and Apollos. Does the thought of distributions come in there from the divine side — how Apollos operates, evidently under God’s direct guidance by the Spirit?
JT Well, he is an illustration of God’s sovereign activity. Paul had nothing to do with his conversion or his anointing into the ministry. Paul had to do with Timothy and others, but not with Apollos. I believe he illustrates what we are saying. God acts sovereignly. He had already done it, but He acts sovereignly in others, and they are recognised immediately. Paul immediately recognised Apollos.
RWS Do you think God is preparing vessels for the distribution through so many of our young men being in the military world?
JT I would think that. The same thing was apparent in the previous war. Many that we know of that are being used now came through that war, the experience of it. I believe that [p. 255] is right.
GW Is it right to ask for a greater distribution or portion of the Spirit?
JT It is right to ask for a gift. It is said, “But desire earnestly the greater gifts”(1 Corinthians 12:31).
GL Have we anything to do in placing ourselves in or near the current of the activities of the Spirit as to our movements territorially, or is it all in God’s sovereign action?
JT “Work out your own salvation” (Philippians 2:12). That is what you do, but, “For it is God who works in you” (verse 13). That is, they run collaterally; God works and you work.
GL There would be a big difference in the motives of Apollos moving out of Alexandria and the two that helped him, Aquila and Priscilla, coming under God’s government and moving out of Rome. There would be divine government moving some and other divine actions moving others.
JT Take the two cases you mention: Aquila and Priscilla were found in Corinth by Paul, and we are told why it was they were there. Caesar had commanded all Jews to leave Rome. They were regarded as Jews. There is no evidence in the actual facts given that they were Christians, nominally even, when Paul found them, but they were there, evidently under the government of God, at Corinth, under the direct action of the government. But then Paul was there. He was not there by direction from the government, but by the direction of the Lord and the Spirit; but they were linked together and evidently they came into Christianity through him, because they were ready for Apollos. Paul had left Corinth when Apollos came in. He left Aquila and Priscilla at Ephesus and Apollos came to Ephesus from Alexandria. At least, it is said he was from Alexandria, which would mean it was another direction from Athens. He undoubtedly represents that side, that territorial position. He came over to [p. 256] Asia, and met those two. You see the government of God working in with the action of the Spirit, and that is the way all the time.
CN In our verse in Hebrews we have “signs and wonders, and various acts of power, and distributions of the Holy Spirit”. Would you say a little as to the difference between these?
JT They may take in what is of the heavens; the heavenly elements to indicate what God is doing. We have in the book of Job the ordinances of the heavens. These are what you might call objective things that you see, but they are operative too, as we will see on the day of reckoning. These ordinances of the heavens are objective things; what a mariner would go by, by observation. Stars would help him in his navigation. These signs and wonders are objective things that you see by the Spirit coming into a brother in this sense. The distributions of the Spirit into a brother give him dead-reckoning. That is, if a mariner comes near land he goes by the depth of the water, and the like. That is called dead-reckoning. In these last days we have dead-reckoning. We can see in a general way what is happening in the government of God, and link it up with prophecy both in the New Testament and the Old; but then we can also discern if we are spiritual, what the Spirit is doing, and that would come under the idea of distributions of the Spirit. “But the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall apostatise from the faith”. That is, in Paul’s own soul there had been consciousness of that.
CN Is that truth also borne out in Paul’s journey to Rome? He told the mariners not to loose from a certain place. The mariners would be directed by these objective things you were speaking of; Paul himself was moved by the Spirit in advising them not to leave.
JT Just so. He became the master of the ship,
[p. 257] really. He knew better. But it not only became a question of the depth of the water, but the place; that is, the island, and then other things came in, so that Paul reached Rome. I believe that is how the matter stands now. The ship has been wrecked, but not a total loss. It is under control. Even the sailors were to be kept. “Unless these abide in the ship ye cannot be saved” (Acts 27:31). That is a remarkable thing, and bears on what we are saying. There are conditions, and we discern what is needed. The Spirit only is needed for direct divine operations, but from the governmental standpoint there are certain others that are needed; maybe men, rulers and the like; and the spiritual would discern if these are not with us we cannot be saved. We are looking to them. But then, we are not looking to them in the meeting; we are looking to the Spirit, and those that have ability through the Spirit of God.
AR Why do you have in the second scripture the spirit of apostasy? 1 Timothy speaks about apostasy. Is that dead reckoning?
JT If you begin to see apostasy you can see the enemy has got in, so that it says, “For the mystery of lawlessness already works” (2 Thessalonians 2:7). That is a long time ago, and the spiritual man would say, that is a sign to go by. I have to look around for that iniquity. Where is it? It is not in heaven; it is down here.
AR The ministry would bear against that.
JT Just so.
RWS What would be the difference between the latter times of 1 Timothy 4 and the last days of 2 Timothy 3?
JT Not much; in the first scripture it says, “But the Spirit speaks expressly, that in latter times some shall apostatise from the faith, giving their mind to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons speaking lies in hypocrisy, cauterised as to their own [p. 258] conscience, forbidding to marry, bidding to abstain from meats” (verses 1 - 3). These are all to be looked for, and are negatively guides for us. They would extend back for many centuries as to actual fact. This sort of thing existed many centuries ago and had its centre in the Romish system. In the second epistle in chapter 3 it says, “But this know, that in the last days difficult times shall be there; for men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, evil speakers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, profane, without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, of unsubdued passions, savage, having no love for what is good, traitors, headlong, of vain pretensions, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; having a form of piety but denying the power of it: and from these turn away. For of these are they who are getting into houses, and leading captive silly women, laden with sins, led by various lusts, always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now in the same manner in which Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, thus these also withstand the truth; men corrupted in mind, found worthless as regards the faith. But they shall not advance farther” (verses 1 - 9). We have to look for these. It is quite obvious that what Paul said in his first letter is not set aside. It is an earlier development of evil. This is evidently “the last days”. The other is “latter times”. This is what is final.
AR Do we understand it is the last days of the church’s history on earth?
JT That is what I think. But the word ‘last’ is different from the word ‘latter’; ‘latter’ is comparative. It is not so far ahead. In 2 Timothy it is final, and, therefore, we are to look for these signs or conditions today, and I believe they are all around us in a peculiar way; the other is around us, too, but not in such an open, bare-faced way as these other [p. 259] things are.
AR How would ministry bear against that?
JT Do you mean 2 Timothy?
AR Yes.
JT Well, just look at the conditions. “Men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, evil speakers”. You look at the whole list and you can see them all around. So we must do something to meet this, because the brethren will be affected if we do not.
RWS “Giving their mind to deceiving spirits”. The great system of literature is behind that system, which might infect one if he touches it.
JT “Disobedient to parents”. One of the most crying, baneful things in this country is disobedience to parents and lack of respect in young men and young women; resisting authority. “From these turn away”. We have learned to withdraw but turning away is very definite.
FNW Is what meets that among the saints what is positive? As Paul says in verse 10, “But thou hast been thoroughly acquainted with my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, endurance, persecutions, sufferings”. Is that the kind of thing that is seen among the saints today?
JT The second letter clearly comes in after the first. The first still stands, but the second is additional. We are in the last days in the second; not the latter days, but the last ones. These two epistles give us a basis for ministry.
JTJr Would there be some dispensational thought in the seven deacons that were selected? The idea of seven might be found continually, what would continue in the way of service in a complete way over against what we have been speaking of as arrogant and disobedient.
JT The seven would mean that. It was to meet a difficulty that had arisen. The deacons were set up, or were selected to meet a difficulty. It is the first [p. 260] great difficulty after the sin of Ananias and Sapphira. Murmuring arose and the diaconal services were provided to meet that, and it is remarkable that the number seven is used. It would allude to the perfection of the Spirit’s service. It would mean looking after the needs of the saints to prevent that sort of thing.
Ques The Spirit speaking expressly — did I understand you to say it refers to what is inward in the servant?
JT I think so. The Spirit would speak to him. He speaks in a way generally; maybe He spoke to others, but undoubtedly the servant was made conscious in himself that this thing would happen. This great apostasy would happen and it did happen, and it has come down to us.
GW What is involved in understanding the signs of the times? I was thinking of the passage in Chronicles where men had understanding of the times to know what Israel ought to do. You mentioned earlier that distributions of the Spirit had to do with understanding the signs of the times.
JT You have a similar suggestion here. “God bearing, besides, witness with them to it, both by signs and wonders, and various acts of power, and distributions of the Holy Spirit”. These were at the beginning of Christianity. Now your inquiry is as to the present time; as to what can be seen. It would be on subjective lines. We do not see in the way of signs and wonders, that is, miracles now, and it is very significant that John does not use the word ‘miracle’. He uses the word ‘sign’, which would mean anything that would signify something. We have many things that would signify something, and it is for the spiritual to discern them and see them, and they afford guidance. Peculiar things have happened during the last quarter of a century. Can the spiritual man not see them and put them together and find guidance as regards the [p. 261] dispensation?
CN Such as these two references to 1 and 2 Timothy. You can see these things operating in persons.
JT Quite so. It would take a long time to search into all this, although great gain may accrue from it. The great revival which has begun and will continue to the end, I am sure began with looking into prophecy, and so the prophetic map was developed and it stands and helps us, but the question is whether we are able to follow up the details; that is, what the Spirit is indicating in ministry and what is happening in an evil sense; that is, developments in the world, whether you can discern anything in them.
Ques I wanted to ask you when these conditions which we find here in 1 and 2 Timothy are prevailing, can the believer use it as dead reckoning to determine his position in relation to the Lord’s coming?
JT Somewhat. The book of Revelation ought to help a good deal, too. It is evidently of a later date than these scriptures that we are now dealing with. I would say it comes in quite late in John’s ministry, but it bears, not only on the future; it really bears on the testimony in Christianity. It is how this is going to eventuate, which we are going on with. It has not to be regarded as something by itself. It is called the apocalypse, which means an unveiling of things and it is not only future. It begins thus: “Write therefore what thou hast seen” (Revelation 1:19). Whatever they were; that is current. “And the things that are”. That also is current; “and the things that are about to be after these”. There are three sets of things, and the first begins with ourselves — goes back to apostolic times. “The things that are”. There are the seven assemblies and they extend to us. “The things that are about to be after these”, would mean that the assembly shall be caught up to heaven before they begin, that is, before they become critical. Their roots are away [p. 262] back at the beginning, but the critical stage has not yet arrived.
TEH Would you be able to discern the features of a son of disobedience? We see all around us children of disobedience, but when it has developed to a full stage, sons of disobedience, the wrath of God seems to come in in connection with it.
JT A son of a thing would be a fully developed person in the thing, whatever it be: socialism or whatever the thing may be. The idea of a son means he is fully developed in it, so that it says, “The spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience” (Ephesians 2:2). That would mean men that were under the power of the devil.
AAT In Revelation where it says, “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”, and the Spirit speaking expressly, is that the same thought?
JT It is the same thought. It is a question of Paul calling attention to what the Spirit is saying. The light that I would gather from that is that I know what the Spirit says here. It is a historical matter now. At that time it was not historical, but we know it is historical now. These persons who forbid to marry and command to abstain from meats — that is recognised by a great number of nominal Christians, but if the Spirit is speaking expressly about something else that has not yet taken place or has hardly taken place, then it is for us to hear what the Spirit says to the churches; not what He has said or will say, but what He says. Philadelphia is historical, but it is current. Thyatira is current. It is historical, too. But Ephesus and Smyrna and Pergamos are historical; they are not current.
JAP Would that come out in our reading meetings and ministry meetings that we pray at the beginning that it might be the Spirit speaking [p. 263] expressly?
JT That is right. We get impressions and these impressions should guide us.
TEH How do I regard the Spirit of Jesus in a territorial matter?
JT “The Spirit of Jesus” is a doubtful rendering. It might be that, or it might be just the Spirit. I would take it that it is that. It says, “Having come down to Mysia, they attempted to go to Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them”. Now I cannot say who is responsible for the omission of the note to this reference to the “Spirit of Jesus”. It is not in the later edition of this New Translation, but I do not know why it is left out, and from the fact that it is left out we may perhaps conclude that it is the Spirit of Jesus, and if it is the Spirit of Jesus I would say it is the Spirit of Christ in the brethren. The Spirit of Jesus in taking account of certain things, like the Spirit of Christ. Instead of the Spirit of God, it is the Spirit of Jesus.
RWS It was hardly the Spirit that animated Barnabas in verse 39 of the previous chapter in taking Mark and sailing away to Cyprus; whereas Paul and Silas are committed by the brethren to the grace of God.
JT That would help, because the high feeling, the acute feeling that arose between Paul and Barnabas at that time would hardly be the Spirit of Jesus, although the Spirit evidently confirms Paul and it seems in Acts 16 as if he was justified from the move he makes.
TEH Mark had not then been recovered. He says later, “He does all things well” (Mark 7:37). That would indicate he was being formed in the Spirit of Jesus.
JT He came back to that, but it was not that when Barnabas chose him.
JTJr Did you have in mind the thought of the princes of the Levites in connection with this chapter?
[p. 264] JT Yes; I think that is the idea. Eleazar represents what is spiritual; he represents a spiritual element.
JTJr You would look for the Spirit’s guidance in going to places. You might be invited to a place, but this would allude to something beyond an invitation.
JT Just so. It is really negative. They were forbidden by the Spirit in verse 6, and the Spirit of Jesus would not allow them in verse 7, and then you get the vision. That is another thing. The positive thing came through a vision.
FSC Could we give a reason why the testimony did not go eastward?
JT No; I do not think we can, except that it is divine sovereignty. This forbidding here is only an indication. Bithynia only is involved in the first one. That was a province. The second is they were forbidden of the Spirit to speak the word in Asia. That is not the continent, but the province. So that they are both negative and only referring to a province, whereas we can hardly bring any scripture to show that the whole eastern world was shut out. We can only go by the facts. They are not evangelized. Asia has one-half the population of the earth; it had more than that in those days, and yet it was not evangelised except in the western part.
FHL Coming to Philippi, would this not link up with the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ? The Spirit of Jesus forbade them to go in a certain direction and they came on to Philippi.
JT It is there that you get the supply of the Spirit.
SF Was the jailor affected by that Spirit?
JT Quite so. The Spirit of Jesus Christ was there both in Lydia and in Paul and Silas.
AR Has the world suffered from the far east not being [p. 265] evangelised?
JT Maybe. Very little has come out of it. China has been evangelised for three hundred years and I am told there are not more than three hundred thousand nominal Christians from all that work.
RWS Would time as well as geography enter into this thing, because later on Paul does go to Asia and at Ephesus develops his ministry? “Having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia”, Paul goes to Europe, but he comes back.
JT He does. But then you have the principle that the west was in mind. You have a vision from Europe, beckoning him to come into Macedonia, and that is what it eventually resulted in. Asia resulted in apostasy. They came under Mohammed. The whole of western Asia fell under apostasy.
TEH I would like to get a little help as to Spain. The apostle had a desire to go to Spain, did he not?
JT It was the gateway out, and it has come westward; but the thing to notice is the westward part of Europe, how it was affected by the gospel. Mohammed overran all of North Africa and all western Asia, and attempted to come up through Spain into Europe but was overcome there. He never made any headway beyond that. You say, that is history. So it is; but it is spiritual, too. God has been looking over things and Europe has been preserved for the gospel, for the reformation, the great work of God. And then this movement we are in now began in western Europe; in Ireland, as a matter of fact, but still it is Europe. God has watched over all these movements, and His Spirit has been operating concurrently with that, and that is our subject: to notice that the subjective conditions confirm the objective conditions abroad.
CN Verse 10 says, “And when he had seen the vision, immediately we sought to go forth to Macedonia,
[p. 266] concluding that the Lord had called us to announce to them the glad tidings”.
JT “Assuredly gathering”. That is, you put things together. That is the word now. You are not just a person getting the direct word, but you get things and put them together in your own mind.
WR How do you account for the fact that there are so few meetings in this country?
JT You account for it by the fact that it is so. Some cities are not touched at all and others are. The work is shallow in this country, in this part of the world; but the work is there nevertheless. There is something going on. It is current, and that is a guide. God is extending out to His territory, because we have to include the redemption of men. The territory belongs to God.
Ques Would you link up America with Europe in getting church material?
JT It is an outgoing of Europe. Prophecy does not take account of these outlying territories, but the people in them are from Europe. Not really all from Europe; there is a composition of people in this nation from all over the world, but the bulk of them are from Europe. The pioneers were Europeans. Of course, there were red men here. They would have come from Asia, no doubt.
TW As to the matter of being under orders, does that enter into the service of those who have the obligation to invite preachers into a locality?
JT Oh well, you are just inviting a brother to preach instead of you. It is not an official matter. The assembly does not preach. It has a meeting room that the brethren pay for. You have the meeting room and you can use it. That is pretty well how the matter stands. I do not know what else you would put into it.
TW I was thinking of the work and the way [p. 267] in which this vision appeared to Paul in relation to the local development of things.
JT It was a man of Macedonia. That was a nation. I think it was a dispensational thing, but I do not know that anyone has any special right to invite anyone to a locality. It is simply a question of confidence that Christianity implies. I should not like to take on the responsibility of inviting, say, a brother from Great Britain to come over here. I would invite him to my house, having in mind the brethren might be glad to see him. It is best to get the divine principle that governs it.
GH I was thinking about Asia and the East. Do you think God would take it up in a later day?
JT Oh, yes. It is just kept there. The larger proportion of the human race has not been evangelised. God has not forgotten that. He would keep them in mind.
SF Does Peter refer to Babylon in one of his epistles?
JT Just so. “She that is elected with you in Babylon salutes you” (1 Peter 5:13). That might be just a person. It probably was. It is a question of love.
TEH This matter of inviting a brother to a locality in view of help You said you would invite him to your own house on the principle of confidence, is that right?
JT You go by love. That is a subjective thing, too. There is nothing formal. No brother has any legal or formal right. It is only a love matter. There is no formal authority to invite another brother from another continent or another country. For whom is he doing it? What Scripture would govern that? This man of Macedonia is evidently a representative of a dispensational turn of events. “Pass over into Macedonia and help us”. He is called a Macedonian [p. 268] man. That is in the country of Alexander, a European country.
FHL Do you mean the local company is responsible for the invitation?
JT No. I should be very much afraid to invite a brother to a company. I invite him to my house and if love is operating he will be invited to others.
Ques Did you have in mind a brother from another country?
JT You cannot invite from New Jersey, or any brother. Who has a right to do these things? You might invite a brother to your house.
AMacd The Philippian jailor invited Paul into his house.
DMacd Is it not usually taken up in the care meeting?
JT That does not prove anything. It is a question as to whether there is anything in that. Inviting is a love matter. If it is the apostle Paul you invite him to your house. He is there and the brethren will soon find out he is there. What a thing love is!
TEH I thought of the exercise that came up in regard to the New Year meetings. How would you put that on a proper basis? It is on the principal of confidence.
JT That is to take a particular meeting to give an address.
WRS Would it be right in writing to a brother to say that if his exercises led him this way the brethren would be glad to see him?
JT That is your judgment. You might say, if Paul came to Corinth they would be glad to see him, but does Scripture warrant a brother extending an invitation like that? Have you ever done that?
WRS I must say I have done it, and I wondered whether it would be right to say you felt sure the brethren would be glad to see him.
JT [p. 269] That is enough, otherwise we are appointing officials. Preaching the gospel is not an office at all. Eldership is an office.
AD Are you restricting this to preaching the gospel?
JT Do you mean the Macedonian man? It goes beyond that. Undoubtedly what happened at Philippi is the answer, and that is what to go by, what did happen there and the assembly is set up by the visit. But then remember the women were there before. There were women assembled by the river side. That is a subjective thing going along with the official. Maybe it was their prayers that led that man to invite Paul to Macedonia. The Lord acted on those lines.
Ques You are not condemning the idea of our inviting a brother of another locality to be with us?
JT It is just what the man of Macedonia did. He opened the door to that territory, and the apostle assuredly gathered that he should go there. He was not under formal obligation. He just assuredly gathered that he should go that way and what he found was not a man but women praying. And then he found a jailor.
ABP No brother has a right to assume that he can invite, or no meeting to assume they can invite a brother to serve in a district. Is that what I understand? But you have no thought in mind that the custom among the brethren to write asking a brother to come to a given locality for special meetings is out of line, have you?
JT Quite so. If he is free to come and the brethren are there making provision for him. It is all a matter of love.
JAP Do you mean that the district meeting that we have on Lord’s day afternoon is really local?
JT If you have one here, of course, it is here. Those that come are just here joining in with Westfield [p. 270] It is not a district meeting. It is the assembly of God which is at Corinth, or the assemblies in Galatia. They would be local companies.
AP-f But if the brethren from nearby meetings want to come, it would be all right to come?
JT Quite so but it is not a district matter; it is a Westfield matter. Of course, there are other things that enter into that; the organism and the body and so on, but that is another matter.