ADVANTAGES OF COMING TOGETHER
[p. 8] ADVANTAGES OF COMING TOGETHER
Exodus 20:24; Isaiah 40:28 - 31; Isaiah 56:1 - 8
JT The advantages of coming together are in mind. Many other scriptures might be mentioned, but these will suffice to begin with as suggesting certain advantages in the saints coming together. There are promises involved. The first scripture read promises certain positive blessing. “In all places where I shall make my name to be remembered, I will come unto thee, and bless thee”. The next scripture speaks of mounting up, and would allude to the prayer meeting; and Isaiah 56, too, affords a rich promise to those who attend the prayers for the saints in the house of prayer. You feel it needful to call attention to the gain of such occasions. Others might be attended, as has been remarked in the New Testament — all the assembly gatherings, but these three have special promises. The first, where Jehovah makes His name to be remembered: “I will come unto thee, and bless thee”. This scripture especially enters into the assembly service, in which we have the Lord’s supper. There is a coming to us and blessing us; that is what the believer looks for. We are entitled to look for it. There is a promise attached to it, and God is always ready to fulfil his promises.
CAM It speaks of burnt-offerings and peace-offerings. Do you consider a reading like this as a peace-offering?
JT I think these meetings take on that character. We are sons of peace professedly, and what we have and share together, God is pleased to join in and partake of. Divine Persons partake of what we have, and the Lord says, “Children, have ye anything to eat?” (John 21:5). This chapter is one of divine [p. 9] rights. It is pre-eminently a chapter of divine rights, God’s rights in His people and what we have; not a father like Job who was evidently content to be absent from the feasts of his children. God loves to be with us and share with us in what we have, so that we take Him into account in our assemblages.
RWS This promise comes early in the book, does it not, in a section that is not fully developed? Why is that? I thought of Sinai, and we have not yet reached the tabernacle system. God is better known later on in the book, and yet he says, under these circumstances, “I will come to thee, and bless thee”.
JT He made certain overtures carrying premiums in chapter 19:2 - 6: “And they ... encamped in the wilderness; and Israel encamped there before the mountain. And Moses went up to God, and Jehovah called to him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: Ye have seen what I have done to the Egyptians, and how I have borne you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. And now, if ye will hearken to my voice indeed and keep my covenant, then shall ye be my own possession out of all the peoples — for all the earth is mine — and ye shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation”. Indeed, this is the overture that God made, and the remaining part of chapter 19 is what the apostle alludes to in Hebrews as causing trembling and fear, as if God would, before He comes to chapter 20, give people to understand that He was God, and they were the people, and that He was to be feared. The chapter is all preliminary in view of what is in mind, the setting up of the tabernacle, in which everything would be requisite for their drawing near in type, but this proposal comes in in chapter 20, showing that God is severe and reminds us that He is God and we are His people, and we have to learn to [p. 10] be reverent and to be subject, and yet He has thoughts and affections for us, but He wants us to be with Him in a subdued and appreciative way; so that at the end of chapter 19 it is to impress them with His greatness, what the flesh is in them, that it is to be held in check, so that it is said “Go down, testify to the people that they break not through to Jehovah to gaze, and many of them perish” (verse 21). That is the rude natural gaze that often comes into meetings, and it is irreverent. We have to learn to sit reverently when we are in the presence of God. And so it goes on, “And the priests also, who come near to Jehovah, shall hallow themselves, lest Jehovah break forth on them” (verse 22). Even the priests are in danger of severity in not being in a right state.
Well, that is what characterises the end of chapter 19 after God comes out. It says in verse 16, “And it came to pass on the third day, when it was morning, that there were thunders and lightnings and a heavy cloud on the mountain, and the sound of the trumpet exceeding loud; and the whole people that was in the camp trembled. And Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the foot of the mountain. And the whole of mount Sinai smoked, because Jehovah descended on it in fire; and its smoke ascended as the smoke of a furnace; and the whole mountain shook greatly. And the sound of the trumpet increased and became exceeding loud” (verses 16 - 19). All this is to impress us now that we are having to do with God. “God is greatly to be feared in the council of the saints” (Psalm 89:7). It is not that His affections are not ever ready to show themselves, but He would impress us with the need of reverence, especially young people, that they are in the presence of God, not in fleshly feelings but reverential feelings. Chapter 20 follows. In chapter 19 it formally states His rights in ten words, making His demands on us. Then it is said in verse 18: “And all the people saw the thunderings, and the flames, and the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled, and stood afar off, and said to Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die. And Moses said to the people, Fear not; for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before you, that ye sin not. And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near to the obscurity where God was” (verses 18 - 21). All this is most salutary, because the flesh in Israel is the same as it is in us; and the flesh in us is the same as in them, and in our assemblies God is telling us that we need to be reverential. We are not in an ordinary meeting; we are to be subdued, and then He makes this promise, Wherever he causes His name to be remembered “I will come unto thee”. It is not in the distance, or in the terrors of Sinai. He will come to us where His Name is remembered; that is, where He is held in reverential regard. He comes to us. He does not come to any company of Christians. He comes to persons who are in a certain state; those who remember Him and have affection for Him.
FNW Is there a lesson in this matter of reverence in the opening part of the book where Moses sees the flame coming out of the bramble bush; perhaps a despised position in the locality, yet God would say the surroundings are holy ground?
JT That is the leading thought in the book. It really looks on to the wilderness position and the tabernacle in it; God is there in comparative outward littleness. He is there not to recognise the flesh, but deals with it unsparingly. Nevertheless God’s discipline, no matter how severe it may be, does not destroy us. The bush was not consumed; the saints are not consumed. He has a way with us and keeps us alive in spite of the things He has to deal with,
but He will deal with flesh. “God is greatly to be feared in the council of the saints, and terrible for all that are round about him” (Psalm 89:7).
AAT Why does the apostle in Hebrews 12 speak of the things that we have come to? That we have not come to mount Sinai.
JT That is the difference of the dispensation, but these chapters whilst you would view the contrast, they have to be used typically, too. God is here; they are not merely in contrast to Christianity. There are types of Christianity in this very section, and these types carry with them the thought of fear, that God requires to be feared and held in reverence. In that same chapter we are told He is a consuming fire, not simply was, but is, in Christianity. That is very solemn.
FSC That comes in in Deuteronomy. It says there also our God is a consuming fire.
JT Just so; the flesh is flesh. He is just as severe on the flesh in us as He was on them. So that 1 Corinthians 11:30 brings that out: “On this account many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep”.
CAM It is a remarkable thing that Naaman, after the change of man took place, had some sense of the holiness of God. He built an altar of earth immediately, did he not?
JT Yes; he brought the earth with him; as if the earth were sanctified by Elisha, showing that the saints’ feet and persons affect the earth. God respects where they are.
AR What does it represent typically, this altar of earth?
JT It alludes to Christ’s becoming man. There are two altars here. The first is the altar of earth, and the other is the altar of stone. The altar of earth is to be provided. It says in verse 25, “If thou make me an altar of stone”, that is, if you are [p. 13] able to do that. The first altar gives us a status with God, even if we have not a stone altar. We can go on religiously. That is, there is not very much; we apprehend the humanity of Christ and that we are of His order. That gives us a status with God, but the altar of stone is relatively greater. It is a question of what He is in resurrection, in an abiding condition. What is to be observed in this section is the need of the saints fearing God in the assembly, coming together as we are now.
ABP The frequent reference to the Lord’s pathway in taking part in the service of praise on Lord’s day would be like the altar of earth.
JT Yes; it would be the beginning of our meeting. We come together; that is the very lowest ground, so to say; it is divine ground but relatively lower than the altar of stone. The first is what Christ is as man, and the second is what He is divinely in resurrection.
JAP When you speak of the fear of God, what does that mean? In what sense do we fear God?
JT If you are giggling and laughing and talking with one another in the presence of God it is not fearing God. Sometimes young people do that; they forget they are in the presence of God. That is what chapter 19 means. In the beginning of that chapter He shows what beautiful thoughts He has about us. I will make you a nation of priests. A nation of priests will not do anything wrong in the assembly. They will be reverent. That was His thought for them. But in order to come to that, they have to learn how severe God is on the flesh, as we are together in assembly. Sin inside is far more serious than sin outside.
RWS Because they already said in chapter 19:8, “All that Jehovah has spoken will we do”. Is not God right in holding us to this committal?
JT Just so. It is on the principle of [p. 14] covenant.
He is teaching us how to become covenanters. He is a covenant God and He is looking for a covenant people; people who know how to keep a covenant and know how to behave themselves in the covenant. “Behold, ... I will consummate a new covenant”.
GVD We were considering last Lord’s day in Westfield John 14. I was wondering whether the thought there of keeping the Lord’s commandments, and then His coming to us, and the Father, would fit in with this chapter, which begins with the rights of God and God coming to us.
JT It does indeed. The passage begins with, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (verse 15). That is the first command He speaks of in that section. “He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me; but he that loves me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him” (verse 21). All is on that line, so at the beginning of this chapter, God is intimating His thoughts, and they accept what He proposes. He says, I am entering into a covenant with you. Now it is a question of whether your behaviour is equal to Mine, because I am holy, and I am looking to you to be holy. The covenant extends that way.
FSC Was Moses taught at the burning bush, when the voice says, “Loose thy sandals from off thy feet” (Exodus 3:5)?
JT That is the idea exactly. We have to learn to be reverential in the presence of God. When he saw that he turned aside to look at it, He called to him, Moses, Moses, as much as to say, You are an interesting person to me; you have a sense of reverence in your soul, and from then on it is one thing after another in the building up of what is of God in Moses’ soul.
JS Did he get light in his soul when he saw it was not consumed?
JT Yes; he says, I will turn aside to see why [p. 15] it is not consumed. This whole book is telling us that we have to learn to be reverent.
AAT I suppose that is why when we come into the meeting-room, we take our hats off.
JT Quite so, and the sisters keep them on. That is required. It would be a shame for them to take them off.
Rem Going back to the two altars, we see there is a difference in them; the altar of earth is connected with an offering and a sacrifice, but the altar of stone is different, is it not? “And if thou make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone; for if thou lift up thy [p. 17] sharp tool upon it, thou hast profaned it” (Exodus 20:25). All human activity is left out.
JT That is right. We are on higher ground. Stone is permanency. It alludes to the permanency of Christ now. Of course, He is always Man, but this stone is permanency.
WWM Do you think the apostle had in mind what you are speaking of now, when he says, “Ye are temple of God”? That represents us as together. It would bring about a great sense of reverence.
JT Quite so, “... and the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any one corrupt the temple of God, him shall God destroy” (1 Corinthians 3:16,17). That is, anything that is contrary to the temple brought in. We must not forget it is in Christianity. That is not at mount Sinai, that is in Christianity, and God can destroy even now.
AR God says to Moses in chapter 19:10,11, “Go to the people, and hallow them today and tomorrow, and let them wash their clothes; and let them be ready for the third day; for on the third day Jehovah will come down before the eyes of all the people on mount Sinai”. It would be the idea of a meeting, would it not?
JT Yes; that is the idea. Moses brought the [p. 16] people out to meet God. That is just what it says. They were brought out to meet God, but our Moses brings us out to meet God on the first day of the week. The Lord has His supper. That is His matter, but it all has in mind our meeting God, and this chapter from that point on is to impress us with Him, so that even the priests are mentioned before we get the priestly order. We do not get the priestly order until we come to chapter 28, but the priests are mentioned here. They were even warned for even they may not be right, so it says in chapter 19:22, “And the priests also, who come near to Jehovah, shall hallow themselves, lest Jehovah break forth on them”; that is, we have the priestly place, but if we do not behave ourselves, then we may look for discipline. “On this account, many among you are weak and infirm, and a good many are fallen asleep” (1 Corinthians 11:30). The behaviour among us brings that about.
ABP Would you explain the steps and the possibility of exposing the nakedness, what that may signify in priestly service?
JT This is a higher order, I think, of the service. It is progressive order. The altar of earth is on lower ground relatively. He says, “An altar of earth shalt thou make unto me, and shalt sacrifice on it thy burnt-offerings, and thy peace-offerings, thy sheep and thine oxen”. It does not say what altar or what earth is to be used. It is just earth, pretty much what Adam was. That is what he was. That is what his name means, so that it is humanity that is in mind, and therefore there are not the same requirements, save the offerings are to be there. And moreover, in verse 24 there is no ‘if’. It is imperative. If we are to be there before God at all, we must have an altar. But in verse 25 it says, “And if thou make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone; for if thou lift up thy sharp tool upon it, thou hast profaned it”. That would mean, I think, that human innovation is excluded, and we know how the worship of God throughout Christendom is largely human innovation, from the cathedrals up or down, it is all that, almost all that. That is what is in mind. God does not accept that, that is rejected. And if there are steps to it, that would mean you want to elevate yourself in that; so that they have a regular hierarchy and all that goes with the hierarchy. That is the gross evil that is alluded to here that is not acceptable to God. It is to be the simplicity of the Christ, as Paul says, in our assembling ourselves together. It is the Son of God we apprehend, so that before coming down from the mountain, it is said, Jesus alone with themselves. It is just that and no more.
ABP In a sense does it link on with the original sin of Adam? One that lifted himself up in pride caused man to lift himself up, that they would be as gods knowing good and evil and exposed his nakedness in that sense.
JT Just so; it is the natural mind brought into it.
AC Is that why David says in Psalm 34, “Taste and see that Jehovah is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him! Fear Jehovah, ye his saints”; and then in verse 11, “Come, ye sons, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of Jehovah”? Is that the reverential side?
JT Quite so; that is a great lesson to remember; the innovations; the lifting up of a tool. “Thou shalt not build it of hewn stone; for if thou lift up thy sharp tool upon it, thou hast profaned it”. I would say it is Christ and the saints as we are according to God; lifting up the tool is just human skill or man’s device.
APT Would holiness be a further thought in regard to reverence?
JT [p. 18] It is quite evident you cannot get holiness without reverence. Reverence, you might say, is the first principle, in our coming together, as we are now or at any time. It is what is becoming publicly. It is quite obvious there can be no holiness without it. It leads on to holiness, I would think. You do not want to be different from God. This is covenanting here; the stress is on the covenant. We are dealing with a covenant God and He looks for a covenant people. We are not out of accord with Him.
CAM It is remarkable that expression you were referring to, the simplicity as to Christ; that alludes to the beginning and Satan coming in, does it not? It is remarkable how it really goes back to the beginning, whether you think of the earth or whether you think of the spiritual matter.
JT “As the serpent deceived Eve by his craft, so your thoughts should be corrupted from simplicity as to the Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:3). Another thing that comes in in that section is measure. God is a God of measure, and we are to be measurers, too. Well, I thought it was just as well to call attention to these great facts in a personal way as to these meetings. They are increasing in number; special meetings, but as to all our meetings, of course. Then in connection with this matter of idolatry: “Ye have seen that I have spoken with you from the heavens. Ye shall not make beside me gods of silver, and ye shall not make to you gods of gold” (verses 22,23). All this is anticipating the evils of Christendom, and the evils of Judaism, too. It is to shut out idolatry.
JS It crept in when the disciples said, “Teacher, see what stones” (Mark 13:1) in connection with the temple.
JT They called His attention to the greatness of the stones. Of course, those stones were in their places, but that was divinely ordered under David and Solomon. These gods of silver and gods of gold — they are two precious metals. The one is more [p. 19] precious than the other, and the use of them might make idolatry more acceptable; they are the material used for making idols. So Isaiah by the Spirit ironically says, “He chooseth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth a pine, and the rain maketh it grow. And it shall be for a man to burn, and he taketh thereof, and warmeth himself; he kindleth it also, and baketh bread; he maketh also a god, and worshippeth it” (Isaiah 44:14,15). Well, that is absurd. It is simply outrageously irreverent and wicked, because he ought to see it; his own common senses ought to show him the folly of it. But gold — well, that might be something that would represent God in a more exalted way than a common tree — or silver. But that is what God is alluding to here; what Christianity has adopted in the way of finery. It is one of the great features of Rome, refinement in building, etc. used for the worship of God.
JS That crept in in regard of the temple; the Lord pronounced judgment upon it.
JT Still, I do not think the point was to condemn the material then, because He says it is My Father’s house. He accepted that. It is what man devises that is in mind here.
CAM Peter, in speaking of the service of praise and what God gets, shows how delivered he was from that. “Knowing that ye have been redeemed, not by corruptible things, as silver or gold” (1 Peter 1:18). If they had followed Peter they would be delivered from all that.
JT Yes; it is how the enemy deceives the human mind, as if these metals being so precious might make idolatry somewhat more acceptable.
RWS Is that the attempt of the enemy now, to make gold hinder the service of God today; over-time work and Sunday work and things of that nature? Is that the same [p. 20] principle?
JT Well, it certainly borders on idolatry, because it is said, “covetousness which is idolatry” (Colossians 3:5). Where people are sacrificing their privileges for the sake of double wages and the like, it is very much like idolatry. Of course there are exceptions that cannot be avoided, but where money is simply the question, it is not too much to say it is just idolatry.
ABP Would Rachel’s failing to get to the end of the journey have any bearing on her love for the household idols?
JT That may be; quite so.
FSC God used precaution at mount Sinai; He calls it mount Horeb in Deuteronomy 4:15,16. It says, “And take great heed to your souls (for ye saw no form on the day that Jehovah spoke to you in Horeb from the midst of the fire), lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image”.
JT Yes; he stresses that; they saw no form. So the attractive side here is, “Where I shall make my name to be remembered, I will come unto thee, and bless thee”, showing there would be no distance. Chapter 19 shows great distance; the people were not to go up; they were not to go beyond the barriers, but this passage contemplates nearness.
Ques Do we get a circumscribed area here now, “All places where I shall make my name to be remembered”? Is that circumscribed?
JT I think not; I think it involves nearness, that is, where God makes His name to be remembered. It is no effort of yours. It is God’s work in your soul. There is nothing to deter God at all under these circumstances, where he makes His name to be remembered. It is really akin to the Lord’s supper, a divine memorial, so the Lord can come in amongst us without any hesitation.
Rem You would allude, I suppose, to the assembly, would you?
JT Yes; I take this to be an allusion to the Lord’s supper, where His name is remembered. So He comes. It is so different from the distance in chapter 19, showing that we are progressing here. Well, in going through this book, we see in chapter 24 how the people are invited up to where God is, eating and drinking in His presence. There is no fear there at all because what He has in His mind is that we should be near to Him, a people near to Him.
AR You have been referring lately to the idea of promises connected with our meetings. Apparently there is a promise connected with this first meeting.
JT That is what I thought, the idea of the promises attaching to the assembly when we come together in assembly, the things that are promised to us, and God loves to fulfil His promises, and this is one; not only that He comes, but He blesses us under these circumstances.
JS Does chapter 19 show that He was the Mediator?
JT The need of the Mediator runs right through this book. The law is ordained through angels in the hand of a mediator. This chapter is the chapter of it.
AR At the end of Luke, His hands are lifted up in blessing. The idea here is He is coming down with His hands outstretched. Is that the idea?
JT Quite so. When the tabernacle is built, He came down and came into it. He calls out for His people to be near to Him. Leviticus is the answer to that.
AAT Is the wording in Exodus 20, “I will come unto thee and bless thee”, to the individual, or do you apply that to the company?
JT The bearing of it is collective. This is all collective instruction, because it all begins with their being there. Look at the beginning of chapter 19. It is said, “In the third month after the departure of the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai:
[p. 22] they departed from Rephidim, and came into the wilderness of Sinai, and encamped in the wilderness; and Israel encamped there before the mountain”. That is the whole company, and then Moses went up to God, and God spoke to him and told him what to tell them, and he came down to the people, and they said, “All that Jehovah has spoken will we do!” So it is a collective position. That is plain enough.
AAT I used to read it as if it was an individual blessing, but I can see how great a thing it is, especially in regard to the Supper.
JT It is a collective blessing. When we come to the book of drawing near, that is, Leviticus, everything is to be done according to order. You have a priesthood and order, every requisite for offering so that you bring a sheep to be slain, and the priests use it and present it to God, and you are accepted, but it is all a collective idea. Each individual retains his individuality, but he is moving, and thinking, and feeling in relation to all Israel. Numbers is to bring out that we are apportioned in relation to one another, each tribe by itself and then every three tribes by themselves, and then the whole twelve tribes by themselves.
AAT In the application of that to the New Testament and the Supper, is it not so that, in connection with the service of God, it is not so much what we get in the way of blessing but what we are able to give Him?
JT Both things are true. The promise is to us here, “I will come unto thee, and bless thee”. That is an encouragement for us, but then on the other hand, we have these offerings, you see, both before and after verse 24, the altar of earth and the offerings; and then the stone altar also, so that God gets His portion. But what He is saying here is that He will bless you. It is a promise, and it is a great thing to have in mind, and be in a condition [p. 23] for it.
CAM Is it safe to say that we could not be in the presence of God without some change coming over us? We would not be truly there and be the same afterwards.
JT Quite so; God is there to influence us and impress us. “I will come unto thee, and bless thee”. That is an encouragement for us. We should count on that. He loves us to remind Him of the promises that He makes.
RWS Is there a variety of blessing connected with each of the meetings on the assembly calendar? Is the blessing of the memorial different from the blessing of the prayer meeting?
JT I think it would be well to look at the prayer meeting. It is, you might say, a promise in the end of Isaiah 40. It is a chapter that speaks of God in His greatness, in His creation, and it says, “Dost thou not know, hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, Jehovah, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not nor tireth? There is no searching of his understanding. He giveth power to the faint; and to him that hath no might, he increaseth strength. Even the youths shall faint and shall tire”. It is not natural, relying on natural strength “and the young men shall stumble and fall; but they that wait upon Jehovah shall renew their strength: they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not tire; they shall walk, and not faint” (verses 28 - 31). That is a fine promise. You go out of the prayer meetings stronger than when you came in. If you go to a dance or a football game, or the like, you will be tired out at the end; but not at the prayer meetings; it is the very reverse. You renew your strength and mount up. Is that not what you find?
RWS It is often a test after the Lord’s day and weekend meetings, it is very testing as to the prayer [p. 24] meeting, because of being so tired. This scripture would cover that.
JT Yes; it is wash-day and other things on Monday interfere and people think nothing of staying at home. With many there is no idea of delinquence in staying at home on Monday. They think the Lord’s supper is the day of the feast, and they stop there, but this one is quite as important, and especially in chapter 56 where we have a formal statement of the house of prayer; God’s house of prayer, and what God is telling us now is that we will be less tired when we come home from the prayer meeting than when we went.
JS Is that what Christ can do?
JT Quite so; it is the presence of God, you know. The description is very beautiful. “They that wait upon Jehovah shall renew their strength: they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not tire; they shall walk, and not faint”. That is a divine promise to every brother and sister, in view of the meeting for prayer.
TM In Acts 16 we have the prayer meeting in Lydia’s house, a praise meeting in the jail and a reading meeting in the jailor’s house.
JT Why do you say the prayer meeting was in Lydia’s house? They did not have it there. The prayer meeting was in the prison. As they prayed they praised. And then the Bible reading was in the jailor’s house. The preaching was in the jail, too.
ABP Maybe our brother has in mind the prayer at the river bank.
JT But he did not say that. Lydia used to go there to that prayer meeting. That is another thing.
Ques How would you apply the thought there: “they that wait upon Jehovah shall renew their strength”? How do you apply the waiting upon Jehovah?
JT That is the attitude we are in in our meetings [p. 25] for prayer. You are just elevated to a priestly position and the fragrance of Christ, our great Priest above. We are linked up with heaven; we are in the presence of the whole divine system; heaven here on the earth.
AAT I think many could say ‘amen’ to these remarks you are making and they are good, but what about the men who are at the camps and cannot come to the prayer meeting? Surely there is a promise for them.
JT There is indeed. God has promised to be a little sanctuary to them. “Yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary” (Ezekiel 11:16). That is a special matter where they are hindered. Take John the apostle at Patmos. He was in prison, and the Lord came to him.
AAT I heard a very interesting case this last week of a young man who was very anxious to pray, and a radio was playing and the noise in the barracks was such that it was very difficult for him to pray. He sought a place and went off to the linen room and was quiet there. It turned out very happily in his case in the end because he was questioned as to why he was in there.
JT That is all very interesting. We have a young brother with us from one of the camps. How do you get on? Where do you pray?
RHS I pray in my tent.
JT Do the men see you pray?
RHS They see me every night.
JT It is really better if you can do it in spite of the radio; carry on with God. We hear a good deal of that and it is very encouraging. The Lord supports the young men carrying on their service of prayer to God in public.
RWS Perhaps if we came to the prayer meetings more regularly the young men would come home from the camps sooner.
JT That is the idea. I think they are the pivot [p. 26] of the whole position. How long is it going to be for them? God is listening to us about our young brethren.
APT Are they not doing that in Acts 12? They are praying and Peter came. Was not God in that, to bring him back?
JT Just so. That is when Peter was in prison and the doors were opened for him.
DP Why are the youth and young men not sustained here?
JT They just represent nature. “Even the youths shall faint and shall tire, and the young men shall stumble and fall”. They are not priests at all; they are just representative of human strength. At a football game or the like they would get tired; working or walking they would get tired. The point here is that a praying people do not get tired; they get rested and run afterwards. “They shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not tire; they shall walk, and not faint”. That is after the meeting is over, you might say. At least that goes through. The others are just natural persons. So it says, “And the Egyptians are men, and not God, and their horses flesh, and not spirit” (Isaiah 31:3).
FSC Is it inferred that we become like God? The everlasting God does not faint or tire.
JT That is just the point here; that is what it says. “Dost thou not know, hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, Jehovah, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not nor tireth?” And again we have, “Behold, he that keepeth Israel will neither slumber nor sleep” (Psalm 121:4).
FNW It says they shall stumble. Do you think God’s ability to keep us without stumbling, according to Jude, depends upon our availability to Him in this way at the prayer meeting?
JT I am sure it does. I am sure there is no one here who is truly a priest in the meeting for [p. 27] prayer that cannot verify this truth, that you are stronger afterwards than before.
RWS Do you mean we reach God as rapidly as God drew us to Himself, because eagles’ wings are mentioned here as well as in Exodus?
JT Yes; mounting up would mean, I suppose, we are getting nearer to the centre of the system, because the prayer meeting is part of the system. The system is centred in Christ in heaven, and we just get nearer to it.
Ques Would you link up in any way the thought of divine dignity as set out in persons who pray?
JT It must be delightful to God to look upon us as we are in true priestly attire in the meeting for prayer, as each brother stands up before Him and the others join in in Spirit. It is pleasing to God in the centre of the system. There is the fragrance of Christ attending to it.
APT Is it not a greater thought really than the earthly altar? It is the golden altar.
JT Quite so; the prayer meeting is the golden altar.
JS Do we stand up assembly-wise?
JT Quite so; we stand up in relation to one another. It is really that, only we are in a priestly attitude.
ABP Does John 8 show this working out in the life of the Lord Jesus? In the end of chapter 7, they all went to their own homes, but Jesus went to the mount of Olives, and early in the morning He was in the temple teaching the people.
JT Just so. It would show the priestly energy that was there.
AR The last scripture you read refers to making “them joyful in my house of prayer”. Is that how you are affected as the meeting is proceeding?
JT That is another side. We often allude to it in our prayer meetings. It reads, the alien and the [p. 28] eunuch, they are people who have little or no earthly or natural prospects, “For thus saith Jehovah: Unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and hold fast to my covenant, even unto them will I give in my house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the alien, that join themselves to Jehovah, to minister unto him and to love the name of Jehovah, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and holdeth fast to my covenant; even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt-offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar: for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples”. This passage, I think, brings us to the full height of the position in God’s house. He says “my house” the universal bearing of it. Can we afford to miss that? We certainly cannot, because that is all we have come to in the meeting for prayer.
Ques Why do you think chapter 56 begins with the thought of keeping judgment and doing righteousness?
JT It is the beginning with us, what you are in a practical way. The idea of the prayer meeting rises from the son of the alien, what he comes into.
Rem The thought of judgment is mentioned much in the assembly gospel, Matthew.
JT Yes, and righteousness, too.
CAM I was thinking of this matter of the alien. I suppose Luke was a Gentile, and we know how full of prayer his gospel is. It ends with it.
JT Very good, quite so.
JH Peter and John moved up towards the prayer meeting full of joy, did they not?
JT Quite so; it was the hour [p. 29] of prayer.
ABP What bearing does the thought of having no earthly outlook have in relation to prayer? It would not be prayer for ourselves, would it? It would be having God’s interests at heart.
JT I think that is how we finish here, when God calls it “my house”. “For my house shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples”. That is what we finish with. So that it seems as if you are brought into the current of God’s mind, how universal His house is. Your own things, you might say, gradually slip away from you altogether. It is God.
ABP It would link on then, would it, with the idea of widowhood? The widow in the house cast in all her living. Certainly her living was not much of a worry to her. She would be something like a eunuch.
JAP In Revelation 8, is it right to say that God caused the angel to add the incense to the prayers of the saints, as if He were pleased with them?
JT That is an angel priest; it is Christ Himself. But notice, all the saints are in mind — the prayers of all saints, showing how wide it is. So here, “my house shall be called a house of prayer for all the peoples”. I think we gradually come into the divine current in the prayer meeting, and we see what God’s interests are, how wide they are.
AR Would this go beyond “all saints”? It says, “All the peoples”. I was thinking of the scripture that says, “I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings be made for all men; for kings and all that are in dignity” (1 Timothy 2:1,2). Is that the idea?
JT That is exactly what it is, culminating in Paul’s ministry in 1 Timothy.
FNW You have stressed a good deal lately as to the matter of joy. Would this chapter have a certain moral sequence?
JT I think God is showing what is available in [p. 30] the prayer meeting; how orderly it is; beginning with righteousness, and then bringing in two kinds of people, the alien and the eunuch. They are naturally at a disadvantage, but all their disadvantages vanish in the house of God. They come in for everything the heart could wish for. They get into the current of God’s thoughts, and what a domain He has.
JS In John 9 do we have one of the outcasts of Israel?
JT Just so; he gets a place in the house.
FNW Would it flow from the keeping of the Sabbath which would link with Exodus 20 and the loving of the Name of Jehovah in Exodus 21?
JT The keeping of the Sabbath has to be understood here. It is connected both with the eunuch and the alien. I suppose the thought is of covenanting. The Sabbath is the sign of it. For us it would be whatever God has covenanted with us, and whatever we are brought into in a sense of covenant, that we have the sign of it. That is keeping the Sabbath, whatever it denotes, that we are in direct relation with God and He is in direct relation with us.
AR These stated meetings enter into that. In the millennium heaven will affect the earth publicly on the principle of rule in a moral sense. It affects the earth now by prayer just as much.
JT I am sure it is a determining factor, and what the persons are that are involved. We are praying for those brethren who are suffering from these circumstances. There is no question about it, they are sufferers. The very best circumstances that any one of them are in does not preclude the idea of suffering as a Christian. I believe that is the pivot of the whole position. The more we keep that before God in our prayers, the quicker will be the end.
DP Is the house of God a wider thought than [p. 31] the assembly?
JT I do not think so. The word is, “In order that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself in God’s house, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth” (1 Timothy 3:15). They are co-extensive, I would say; the house of God and the assembly of God. Did you have anything especially in your mind?
DP No; I just wondered about it.
JT The kingdom is a wider thought than the house, or the assembly, because it is simply a question of profession. Persons may be in it that have not the Spirit, but no one may be in the house of God without the Spirit. So that Peter says, “For the time of having the judgment begin from the house of God is come; but if first from us, what shall be the end of those who obey not the glad tidings of God?” (1 Peter 4:17). The ‘us’ means real Christians.
RWS The Lord in Luke 18:1 spoke a parable, “to them to the purport that they should always pray and not faint”. Is that not an encouraging scripture today? In view of protracted things we are to go on praying and not lose heart as if God is not hearing it.
JT As has been remarked, no doubt he was a Gentile; it is generally understood that he was, and so an alien, but see what a place he has in this instruction of prayer. It is he that tells us that the disciples asked the Lord to teach them to pray, and the Lord answered them immediately and said, “When ye pray, say, Father” (Luke 11:2).
JH Would you say Peter would say ‘Amen’ after the experience in Acts 10, when he saw the sheet come down? I think he would say ‘Amen’ to the alien praying in the house of prayer.
JT The sheet represented the alien. We are told in Ephesians 2:12 just what we are; “aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise” (Ephesians 2:12).
[p. 32] FSC It says, the sons of aliens. Why does it say it that way?
JT It would not make any difference to the real meaning. Their fathers may not have added to their welcome; the generation would not add to their welcome. It is what grace makes an alien such as Ephesians contemplates. Ephesians tells us so much about our having been aliens. We are brought into the very greatest things in Ephesians.
JAP Does Deuteronomy 26:5 fit in with that thought? “A perishing Aramaean was my father”.
JT Just so; he was an alien in that sense, but brought into the nearness to God in grace.
CAM Referring to what you said about the house of God in that section of Luke 11 speaking about prayer, the section does not end really until you have the Spirit. Do you think that really that would be the normal status of one that prayed? He would really reach that through desire. They would have the Spirit.
JT I think so; it is the great finishing touch of the furnishings that are depicted in that passage in the first ten verses. “How much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him” (Luke 11:13). The Lord is implying that the whole point in prayer requires the Spirit. It is not simply that you have a right formula, but you must have the Spirit; that is the meaning of the passage. And then the next thing you get is the man that was dumb. What could he do? Well, the Lord was casting him out. The thing is to pray that we might get the Holy Spirit, as much as to say if there is a dumb brother the thing is to pray that he might get the Holy Spirit. If a man does not pray habitually in the prayer meeting, you wonder if he has the Holy Spirit, else how could he refrain?