OBEDIENCE AS PREPARING FOR THE GLORY (4)

^[p. 109] OBEDIENCE AS PREPARING FOR THE GLORY (4)

Exodus 35: 20 - 29; Exodus 39:32; Exodus 39:42, 43; Exodus 40: 9 - 38

JT The verses in chapter 35 show how obedience continued according to what we have in chapter 12, as they departed from before Moses. Obedience to the extent of sacrifice, of unselfishness, is seen strikingly in verses 20 - 29. It says, “And all the assembly of the children of Israel departed from before Moses. And they came every one whose heart moved him”. Obedience and rectitude are often apparent, happily in our gatherings, as in each other’s presence and in the presence of the Lord; but as we depart and enter on our own ordinary occupations, especially if we are isolated, the test comes in. These verses show that obedience was maintained to the extent of sacrifice, and that it extended to, and included, the women as well as the men, and also the principal men, as it says in verse 27. So that in verse 29 we have, “The children of Israel brought a voluntary offering to Jehovah, every man and woman whose heart prompted them to bring for all manner of work, which Jehovah, by the hand of Moses, had commanded to be done”.

CHH You remarked in the first meeting that this material represented the saints as being formed. Would that correspond to Romans 12 as being formed you offer yourself?

JT That is right. That is the order of the truth in Romans. The chapter begins, “By the compassions of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God”. The saints are eligible as sacrifice. “And be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove”. Thus I think we are formed, and the various needs for the building of the tabernacle ^[p. 110] are developed. So that as you run down the chapter you see a great variety of service all working out from the first part of the chapter, and that each is to consider himself, his measure in his service, that it is according to the measure of faith that God has dealt to every man, and that involves calculation. All that enters into these chapters.

HH Everyone would in that way be a vital part of the system. Their contribution would be themselves, in that sense. Would that be right?

JT That is what is meant, so that it becomes very practical. Instead of reading up this material, you think of yourself, what you are, and what I am, all as finished and brought to Moses, so that his eye passes over everything. Every one of us as in assembly comes under the Lord’s eye. We are to be there on His terms and not on ours.

ABP Would you say that the house of Stephanas would fit in here?

JT Quite so. Wherever you have instances of persons functioning according to God in relation to the saints, that is the antitype of what we have here, such as the house of Chloe and Stephanas in Corinth. In Romans you have a large list of persons who are saluted. That means that they are material acceptable for the tabernacle. The idea was they should be at Rome in the very midst of the world, the wilderness, that God’s will should be apparent there. So that you can understand that when Phoebe went there and brought her letter and it was read (and possibly the epistle was brought by her), what exercises there would be as to all this in Caesar’s very capital, that the will of God should be maintained in His people.

ABP The household of Stephanas, the first-fruits of Achaia, was baptised, and we find a long time later they were all addicted to the service of the saints.

JT ^[p. 111] That is a good illustration, as I was remarking, of what is acceptable.

HH It would enter into what is local. You would expect to find assembly features in any local company; such a meeting’s commencing would not be justified if the material were not there.

JT Quite so; there must be some material of this kind. The principal thing is subjection.

AJD The great principle of subjection is referred to in that connection in the end of 1 Corinthians referring to the household of Stephanas. “I beseech you, brethren (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the first-fruits of Achaia, and they have devoted themselves to the saints for service), that ye should also be subject to such, and to everyone joined in the work and labouring”. The great principle of subjection enters into that kind of thing.

JT Quite so, and right through.

SP Does the appreciation of this wealth that is found with each man and woman preserve us from being purely local in our thoughts? It has all Israel in view.

JT It is one thought; it is one tabernacle; so that the principles in all the gatherings must be of the same kind.

Ques Would it be exemplified in the churches in Macedonia? “But they gave themselves first to the Lord, and to us by God’s will”, 2 Corinthians 8: 5.

JT Very good.

Ques Is Lydia like one of these women? It says the Lord opened her heart. In chapter 35 is it not a heart matter?

JT That is what we should see. It is a heart matter, and the heart is functioning according to God even as departing from Moses, not immediately under his eye and direction. We are trustworthy, that is what is meant, I think, in these verses, and can be relied upon, and all are brought into it, men and women ^[p. 112] and the principal men, too, I believe that is the test, when we are out from under each other’s eye. It is all well when we are together in times like this, but when we depart each into his own setting, his own house and business, then how is it? Can we be trusted to carry out the impressions that we may get here under the Lord’s influence and direction?

CAM Your reference to saluting the saints seems to be an interesting matter. Saluting one another has been a great exercise, whether we can really salute one another as having respect for one another as assembly material.

JT That is the idea in Romans 16. The salutations are each based on something; something that enters into tabernacle construction. How can I salute what is incongruous? You cannot do this. It is what is worthy of salutation. Hence the idea of a holy kiss, that our salutations are not worldly. The shaking of hands and expressions of sympathy and fellowship ought to be holy, not promiscuous or loose, because the tabernacle is to be in mind, and all is to be in accord with the material proper to it. We cannot salute anything else, brethren under discipline and the like. Discipline is essential; it is impossible to get through the wilderness without it and in all these matters “endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace”, Ephesians 4: 3. That is, we are moving together, otherwise the tabernacle is only a term; it ceases to be what it is meant to be.

HH The thing took form in Romans 16, “Salute Prisca and Aquila ... and the assembly at their house”. It was all there, was it not? The apostle’s mind is concentrated on what stands connected with the assembly.

JT The assembly is being led up to, as mentioned in the last paragraph of the book. In regard to salutations, it says at the end of the list, “Salute one another with a holy kiss”, 1 Corinthians 16: 20. Salute one another. Paul had mentioned certain and given reasons, but every saint in Rome is to be taken account of in this way. The salutation or kiss, or symbol of affection, is to be holy, and it cannot be holy unless it recognises the material proper to the tabernacle.

JS Do you think the salutations there would be in accordance with the formative work of God only?

JT That is what I was thinking. He begins with Phoebe — what a sister she was! — then Priscilla and Aquila, “my fellow-workmen in Christ Jesus (who for my life staked their own neck; to whom not I only am thankful, but also all the assemblies of the nations) and the assembly at their house”, Romans 16: 3, 4. There is a reason for these salutations.

Rem In mentioning names it is not the names, not any particular persons, but certain features represented in the meaning of the names.

JT That is good; so that you have tabernacle construction in principle in those salutations qualified.

Ques We all value Priscilla and Aquila in view of what they did for Paul; we have profited greatly, have we not?

JT “To whom not I only am thankful, but also all the assemblies of the nations”, Romans 16: 4.

CHH Would the material in Romans 16 form the basis of Ephesians as the teaching in Exodus would pave the way for Leviticus?

JT That is right. We must have the tabernacle set up. That is what we are coming to in the last chapter; it is the structure set up. What a pleasure it was to God! That would all be in mind. Leviticus is in mind, for that is where the service is carried on. Here it is the tabernacle set up and the material all marked by, “as Jehovah had commanded Moses”. Everything is according to that, and then it passes under the eye of the mediator; that is, Christ in type, as in the verse read in chapter 39, “according ^[p. 114] to all that Jehovah commanded Moses. So had the children of Israel done all the labour. And Moses saw all the work, and behold, they had done it as Jehovah had commanded — so had they done it; and Moses blessed them”. I think that is a very fine thought to have in mind; that things are all done. They finished the work, it says, “according to all that Jehovah had commanded Moses”; but after all that, it comes under Moses. It comes under the eye of Christ.

CHH Chapter 40 is what Moses does; whereas chapter 39 is what the people do.

JT What the people do and what he does in passing his eye over it.

JS Do we see in chapter 35 how the people take all the instructions given by Moses? We see the inward work in those whose hearts were moved and whose spirits prompted them.

JT That is the setting according to what we had yesterday; that is, chapter 34 is the counterpart of chapter 24. What intervenes is only to throw lustre on chapter 34 — what Moses was. What an increase there was in him, so that he comes down from the mountain shining! The glory was there where it could be most appreciated, in the face of a man, and the meekest man in all the earth. There was nothing retaliatory about him. It is in his face, the face of Jesus. Now it is to take on that glory, 2 Corinthians opens up the idea of the saints taking on glory; they “are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit” (chapter 3: 18). There is the image of Christ. We are all to be alike from this point of view. There is enrichment, “from glory to glory”. I believe that is what is implied in chapter 35. The saints are glorified. They have taken on glory from the face of Moses and all these sacrifices and gifts are just what we are ourselves in obedience. As Paul says, “When your obedience is fulfilled”, 2 Corinthians 10: 6. When the generality of the saints are brought into obedience, then the Lord can deal with special cases that are hardened.

HH Does it not say that God must have a vessel of habitation? In Noah’s day it was the ark; now it is the assembly. Everything is here in Christ. Does it not emphasise the importance of responding to divine requirements in that way?

JT As to having the ark?

HH I mean Noah’s ark. If God was to bring in another world, the ark was a necessity. If God was to be in Israel, the people had to supply the material that God might be amongst them. Does it not carry forward to our day, that we are to be for God’s pleasure as apart from every other thing?

JT So that as Moses scrutinises all, he not only approved but blessed them. The word ‘approved’ is an important word, too, “approved of God”; but then there is more than that. Chapter 39 is approval; chapter 40 is complacency in the approval, the complacency of love. God says, I not only love you, but you are great enough to be the residence of My glory. What an immense thought that is! so that obedience is the thought running right through here.

AR Hence the importance of chapters 35 and 36, to develop a general state of holiness amongst the saints, do you think?

JT That is right. It worked out from the glory in the face of Moses and then the sabbath in the beginning of the chapter; that is to say, the saints are learning to take on the glory and take on the benefits of the environment. “We all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face”, we take on things. The sabbath in chapter 35 means the saints are to learn to lie fallow; not simply to read books but to absorb the thoughts, the glory of the environment; and then that works out in the second ^[p. 116] section, where they depart from Moses. It is remarkable how the Spirit of God goes over these items. He is thinking of the saints; He tells them what is needed. He loves to go over the ground and look at us, and speak about us. That is the first half of the chapter; then they depart from Moses and verse 20 shows their response, and how they love to bring all these wonderfully rich things out of willing and prompted hearts.

AR Because chapter 36 shows that they were so willing they had to be told not to bring; they were bringing so much.

JT What a difference that is from chapter 32, after Moses’ first visit to the mountain, where they had the golden calf! What should have been for the tabernacle was devoted to it.

CHH So in taking on the glory, as you say, it would be a result of subjection and obedience, leading on to the extension of glory as seen in the end of chapter 40. There would be glory to God in the assembly.

SJH Is this bringing to Moses a definite act? They brought their gifts to Moses. Is there a definite transaction in it?

JT I think so. The Lord is saying virtually. If you are to be in the tabernacle, it is to be on My terms. So they give themselves to the Lord, as has been remarked; that meant that the rights of the Lord and the rights of God were fully owned by the saints in Macedonia; then in Thessalonica Paul says of them, “Ye became followers of us, and of the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 1: 6), another touch. Paul was their ideal so far, but they were not content with that; they became followers of the Lord. Paul was not a party man, great as he was. As they followed him, they became followers of the Lord. The Lord must be the test throughout.

SP ^[p. 117] Would you say that the contribution of this great wealth to the tabernacle as coming under the scrutiny of Moses would remove any thought of conspicuousness in the gifts presented? The giver would be content with Moses’ scrutiny.

JT You do not want your contribution to be intruding; everything has to come under the Lord. Moses blessed it all; then in chapter 40 “Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying, On the day of the first month, on the first of the month, shalt thou set up the tabernacle of the tent of meeting”, and in verse 9, “Thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is in it”. The fact that everything was well done, everything done in obedience, and with willing hearts, was not enough. God says, I must put the finishing touches on this. The anointing means the heavenly touch; that is what verse 9 means.

AR I was wondering if first coming under the hand of Moses and taking account of material, we would become willing now to be put in our places in the tabernacle according to his disposition in chapter 40. I have to be submissive as to the place he may put me in, do you think?

JT Yes, I have passed the scrutiny of Moses now, and I am conscious the Lord is pleased with me, because that is the idea here, one gets clear for oneself. Then the next thing is that you are to be doing well in your own house; you are reading and making headway, and the Lord is pleased with that, too; but the tabernacle is another thought. It takes on others as well as yourself, and you must fit in with them. There are those who would like to drag things down to a lower level. There were others also. Paul says to Timothy, “The things thou hast heard of me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, such as shall be competent to instruct others also”, 2 Timothy 2: 2. Now we are in the period of the “others” and we may think in ourselves that ^[p. 118] our measure is equal to their measure, but it is not. Romans 12 shows that you must see to your own measure. There may be men far beyond you even among the “others”. The principle is that 2 Timothy does not make 1 Timothy obsolete; 1 Timothy is still in force, and what God gives must be there. A man is what he is, even if he comes in on the last day of the assembly’s history on earth, and we must recognise that. Romans 12: 3 recognises that. Every man must find his measure, according to the measure God has apportioned to each. That makes me humble, “But to think so as to be wise, as God has dealt to each a measure of faith”, because after all, it is all God’s work. Look at that brother, God would say; he calls attention to this one and the other one, and the salutations mean that; that each is distinguished. So that each of us, therefore, has to be sober, although you say I belong to the “others”, how are you going to measure up with the “others”? because in David’s history the mighty are at the beginning in Chronicles, and at the end in 1 Samuel. The idea runs right through. It is the work of God and as the work of God we must recognise it.

CHH So Paul would be anxious for you to think just as well of different brethren as he did.

JT Quite so. Well, we have to keep all this in mind; because we are so apt to flatter ourselves that we are equal to the “others”, but after all a man is what he is. Let him not mistake it; there is no mistake in heaven. The measure of God is the measure of God and we are each to take account of it.

JH-t Is that what the apostle is bringing forward in the end of the epistle to the Colossians? He mentions three persons there as being beloved, but then he also brings in certain distinctive features about them; and at the end of the epistle, he asks that the letter be read to the Laodiceans ^[p. 119] also.

JT That is good. In each of these cases, generally the salutations are on a certain basis; there is a good reason for them. Perhaps we may see now, so as to get all we can, that chapter 36 is the outcome of the glory in the face of Jesus. That is the setting of it, and that the saints are trustworthy; you can trust them when they are out of your sight; they will not change their minds after they leave the meeting. They departed from Moses, and everyone brought his offering unselfishly. Notice how the women gave up their earrings and that sort of thing. It is the work of God in them to do that, to give up their mirrors; you may be sure it is a real work of God that leads women to give up these things.

EP The apostle says in Romans 16, “Your obedience has reached to all, I rejoice therefore as it regards you”, and then he closes with that passage, “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you”.

JT How much that thought is stressed; it is really a universal thought, “For obedience of faith among all the nations”, Romans 1: 5. So that we have one tabernacle. There are universal conditions; so that in observing these things, we keep the unity of the Spirit. We have an ear to hear what God is doing everywhere and what the enemy is doing also, and know what is what. We do not put a premium on ignorance. I ought to know what is current.

RAL What is involved in the last verse of chapter 39, “Moses blessed them”? Not only did God put the finishing touch on the tabernacle, but “Moses blessed them”.

JT It is the sense you have of the Lord, as you bring yourself to the Lord. It is great to weigh over in the presence of the Lord our whole history. The Lord likes that; because in that wonderful grace chapter in Luke 15, the idea is a “repenting sinner”. It is one that is always at it. The longer you live, the more you will repent according to that, and that ^[p. 120] means I am in the presence of the Lord, and the Lord gives me to understand what He thinks of me. We ought to think of understanding with the Lord as to what He thinks of us. I believe that is what is meant.

AR Do you think the reason we are so ignorant of what is current is because we have the wrong kind of books in our book cases?

JT Quite so. These features which are to be contributed to the tabernacle are to be found also in the households.

JH As “Salute Prisca and Aquila ... and the assembly at their house”.

JT I think so. The assembly in the house would mean the tabernacle is there, and that the books around are in accord with that; that what is around the house is in accord with the assembly. I believe it is a distinction attached especially to Priscilla and Aquila; they had the assembly in their house.

JRH As to this thought of taking on glory, how far does the assembly enter into that?

JT If you look at the connection in 2 Corinthians 8: 6, I think you will see that enters into it. “So that we begged Titus that, according as he had before begun, so he would also complete as to you this grace also”; that is, You are to complete the doing of it in chapter 35. “But even as ye abound in every way, in faith, and word, and knowledge, and all diligence, and in love from you to us, that ye may abound in this grace also. I do not speak as commanding it, but through the zeal of others, and proving the genuineness of your love. For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that for your sakes he, being rich, became poor, in order that ye by his poverty might be enriched. And I give my opinion in this, for this is profitable for you who began before, not only to do, but also to be willing, a year ago. But now also complete the doing of it; so that as there ^[p. 121] was the readiness to be willing, so also to complete out of what ye have. For if the readiness be there, a man is accepted according to what he may have, not according to what he has not. For it is not in order that there may be ease for others, and for you distress, but on the principle of equality; in the present time your abundance for their lack, that their abundance may be for your lack, so that there should be equality. According as it is written, He who gathered much had no excess, and he who gathered little was nothing short. But thanks be to God, who gives the same diligent zeal for you in the heart of Titus. For he received indeed the entreaty, but, being full of zeal, he went of his own accord to you; but we have sent with him the brother whose praise is in the glad tidings through all the assemblies; and not only so, but is also chosen by the assemblies as our fellow-traveller with this grace, ministered by us to the glory of the Lord himself, and a witness of our readiness; avoiding this, that any one should blame us in this abundance which is administered by us; for we provide for things honest, not only before the Lord, but also before men. And we have sent with them our brother whom we have often proved to be of diligent zeal in many things, and now more diligently zealous through the great confidence he has as to you. Whether as regards Titus, he is my companion and fellow-labourer in your behalf; or our brethren, they are deputed messengers of assemblies, Christ’s glory. Shew therefore to them, before the assemblies, the proof of your love, and of our boasting about you”, 2 Corinthians 8: 7 - 24. In the next chapter he also touches and enlarges on these same thoughts, so as to bring out their obedience in this matter. So that manifestly what we are speaking of now in Exodus is a type of what we have got in 2 Corinthians, how the glory of Christ is seen in the messengers of assemblies, entirely subject in carrying out the divine thought of ^[p. 122] giving, giving freely, giving voluntarily, according as each one is able to do.

AR Giving in relation to another assembly is really a question of what you have in a material way.

JT That is what is dealt with; but it is a question of your love, so it is really the same thing. Whatever the giving may be, whatever the sacrifice, it is all the tabernacle material.

Ques Is there any analogy between the end of Luke 24 and the end of Exodus 39? The Lord Jesus speaks to the disciples and tells them to remain in the city until they be endued with power from on high; and then He was taken up into heaven, and as going up He blesses them. It says here, “Moses blessed them”. I was wondering whether it precedes in that way the gift of the Holy Spirit.

JT I think that is good. The Lord blesses them as going up, but then there is something following the anointing. The anointing comes down which is an additional thing, and that is what we get in chapter 40.

CAM We have a sort of tendency to make this matter of giving apply to some specific material gift, but what the Lord is pressing is what is behind the gift. It may be very small, but the thing for us to be exercised about is what is behind the giving.

JT “God loves a cheerful giver”, 2 Corinthians 9: 7. It is not a cheerful gift but giver. It is the person behind all this.

ABP As a practical application, if I get an increase in salary I should be concerned about why the Lord gave it to me. There may be need somewhere that the Lord intends it to fill.

JT That is a practical way to put it; not that we are here to get out of the brethren material things. After all, they are very little, but what is behind them? “The proof of your love”, he says. “God loves a cheerful giver”. If I have an increase of ^[p. 123] income then I afford an incentive to God to love me. The Lord looks upon me in that way, “The Father loves me, because I lay down my life”, John 10: 17. If I give Him an incentive He gives me to understand that He loves me on account of that. That is really the way saints progress, I believe. It would be wholesome for us to think if there is an increased income, what does the Lord intend me to do with it? What are we doing with it? Why has He given it to us?

AJD The Lord puts a very wonderful appraisal on the widow’s two mites — she gives more than they all, “For all these out of their abundance have cast into the gifts of God; but she out of her need has cast in all the living which she had”, Luke 21: 4.

JT On that line there are two things to be said. The Acts contemplates men who are well off that give. Those well off in Antioch give to meet the famine conditions, but in 2 Corinthians the apostle speaks of people who are very poor, but he says, “free-hearted liberality”, 2 Corinthians 8: 2. That is what God likes. It is the persons. A man is accepted according to what he has; because it is material for the tabernacle. You say, that man in that town, he is standing alone. Is he tabernacle material? That man at Decapolis, if he is tabernacle material he will link on with what God is doing everywhere.

Rem What the Lord gives us spiritually should be for those that need it spiritually, and not money, not our material wealth. We should be exercised that we should have spiritual wealth to minister to the poor of the flock, not poor in money, but poor in spirit.

JT Do not say, ‘not money’, because God says a good deal about the money. How it shows what the man who gives it is. Do not forget that money is a great thing with God; not that He looks for the money in itself, but because of the givers of it, and why they give it.

^[p. 124] Rem Hebrews 13 speaks of spiritual sacrifice, “The fruit of our lips” and “To communicate forget not” (verses 15, 16).

JT Quite so; they are called “such sacrifices”; they are not spiritual exactly, but the man is spiritual, and with such sacrifices the Lord is well pleased.

JH Some of us have been hearing lately that the glory is radiant love. Does the thought express that the love of Christ is to radiate through His assemblies, through these messengers?

JT I think that is the meaning of it, “Christ’s glory”, that is the meaning of it; it enters into giving, “He was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor”, 2 Corinthians 8: 9. So that Christ’s glory is in that question of giving. The chapters end with this, “thanks be to God for his unspeakable free gift”, 2 Corinthians 9: 15.

FL-s I was wondering if we do not see it in the end of Acts 2, the Spirit of what you are referring to, in a beautiful way behind the material giving; there was a spiritual wealth in the souls of these men. There we see the first love of the assembly brought out.

JT Quite so; you see the tabernacle set up there and it says the Lord added to that “such as should be saved”; as much as to say, ‘I can add to that’. It is tabernacle conditions and what is suitable to it; so the Lord added “such as should be saved”.

AR Numbers 7 shows the tabernacle is set up, and twelve men giving. God gives them a day each.

JT Quite so. There you see the giving develops into speaking, oracular communications from God, another great side to our position. We shall have ministry from God if we are liberal in giving. God will not go on with us if we are not moved by what is already given us. The giving in Numbers 7 leads to oracular communications in the sanctuary, in the holiest, an immense thought! Perhaps we never thought of that; that depends on our giving and ^[p. 125] liberality, spiritually or otherwise. But here the giving leads up to a residence for God, for His glory; as much as to say, ‘I am so pleased with all this, I am coming in to fill the whole scene with My glory’.

AJD It is important that all our localities should be put on a right basis from the point of view of liberal giving.

JT I believe the local gatherings are small in this country because of the want of liberality. As soon as we begin to give, to sacrifice, you will see God increasing. In Acts 2 the Lord added; He will add to the conditions. We should have these conditions.

JH-t Is that not a promise? In Deuteronomy 14, the saints of God tithing themselves, it says, “that Jehovah thy God may bless thee in all the work of thy hand which thou doest” (verse 29).

EF Do you think those who are responsible in care meetings, those who take up matters, making arrangements, should provide circumstances in which this giving can take place. I was thinking you have the opportunity for spiritual giving in what we call the ministry meeting, and the counterpart of that is the special collections for the Lord’s work. If we do not have them, there is not the opportunity for giving in that way.

JT I believe that is good. There is a good link there, the opportunity for spiritual ministry in what we call the ministry meeting. So that brethren who have something can contribute; and then the counterpart of that is a special collection for the Lord’s work. If these two things go together, we shall have communications from God, and we shall have conditions.

SP It would contribute to better circulation.

JT Quite so.

CAM I am sure that what you say as to this matter of getting rich by giving is encouraging. It ^[p. 126] seems that would be a great leverage. Paul speaks of God’s “unspeakable free gift”, 2 Corinthians 9: 15.

JT Where the spirit of liberality is, we shall find throughout this country and the United States, as the opportunity is given for it, that we shall have increase. I believe that is the line exactly on which we shall have increase. “There were added”, it says in Acts 2: 41; it does not say who added them; but the conditions were better lower down; they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine, in the breaking of bread and prayers, and in giving; and then it says, “the Lord added”. The Lord says, ‘I am ready to own that; I can add to that; it is suitable’. I believe that is the basis of real gathering and of real increase amongst us.

JS Does it show formation in the divine nature, that we become like God as a giving God?

JT Quite so; the tabernacle is to reflect what God is.

AR The wilderness is no place for us to stay in. The tabernacle was to suggest the idea of movement. We are not here to stay; we are just on a temporary basis. I think the idea of giving would save us from having big houses and settling down here in the wilderness.

JT Quite so; big houses and big cars.

WJC Would you say that God Himself has been enriched by giving?

JT I think morally He has become greater in our eyes.

WJC What He has secured for Himself He would have got in no other way.

JT Quite so. The Lord talks with the woman of Samaria, “If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is”, John 4: 10. “Thanks be to God for his unspeakable free gift”, 2 Corinthians 9: 15. Moses came in here; we see what this means; they passed Moses and he blessed them. As in the end of Luke, the ^[p. 127] Lord blessed them, and went up, and the answer to that was the Spirit coming down. They were to remain at Jerusalem until He came down. After all the excellent workmanship seen in the disciples they must wait for the Spirit’s coming down, because the tabernacle is to represent what is in heaven. It is a type of the assembly of our own times. It is not millennial. It is what comes down; it is the Spirit coming down, like verses 9 to 16 here: “And thou shalt take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle, and all that is in it, and shalt hallow it, and all its utensils; and it shall be holy. And thou shalt anoint the altar of burnt-offering, and all its utensils; and thou shalt hallow the altar, and the altar shall be most holy. And thou shalt anoint the laver and its stand, and hallow it. And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons near, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, and bathe them with water. And thou shalt clothe Aaron with the holy garments, and anoint him, and hallow him, that he may serve me as priest. And thou shalt bring his sons near, and clothe them with vests. And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may serve me as priests. And their anointing shall be to them an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations. And Moses did so: as Jehovah had commanded him, so did he”. Now we have heaven come down in its dignity and power. So the whole scene is moving as reflecting what is above. The garments of the priests here ought to be mentioned, they are glorious. Allusion has just been made to Luke 24, “Do ye remain in the city till ye be clothed with power from on high” (verse 49); that is the garment, the glorious power of the Spirit come down and covering us; and so the priesthood here, the garment, as mentioned, is stressed here; our clothing is to be dignified and glorious.

JS I thought there could be no true representation of what was in the heaven apart from the ^[p. 128] anointing of the Spirit; He who is from heaven. He is holy.

CAM I suppose this matter of clothing is one way of God’s emphasising the personal distinction of each one, the matter of persons. I can see that giving is according to the persons, but this clothing makes them distinctive, does it not?

JT Yes; and then here you will notice the repetition of the thing, “that they may serve me as priests” (verse 15). That must not be overlooked in all this wonderful array of wealth in the saints for a dwelling for God. We must remember that He is to be ministered unto.

WJC There is a distinction evidently in these verses as to what is to be anointed; the first is certain things, the tabernacle, and then you get persons.

JT The first is “Thou shalt take the anointing oil and anoint the tabernacle and all that is in it, and shalt hallow it and all its utensils; and it shall be holy”. That is a great general thought; and the tabernacle is anointed in all its parts. That is the first thing, inclusive of what is inside, and, of course, would include persons as well as what is specified now; only what is specified now alludes more to what is public. “And thou shalt anoint the altar of burnt-offering, and all its utensils; ... thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons near, at the entrance of the tent of meeting”. It is the public side of the position that is specified here. The other is generalised. We get later all the utensils mentioned one by one as anointed and set up; but here it is the great general thought first, and then what is more public; that is to say, what we are as coming together publicly in assembly in any given place.

CHH What is the distinction between receiving the Holy Spirit and anointing? Would you say all who have received the Spirit are ^[p. 129] anointed?

JT Only in the sense of potentiality. The apostle brings three things together as if applicable to the Corinthians after they had judged themselves. He says, “He that ... has anointed us, is God, who also has sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts”, 2 Corinthians 1: 21, 22. There are three features of the Spirit, and the first thing is the anointing; it is as if that is the point at Corinth, what is public. Anointing is more in what is public, what men see. So in the assemblies, it is the anointing first. Everything is to be done in the power of that when we come together. But the Spirit is also viewed as the seal of God’s ownership of us; that is, the assembly of God in the place. Then finally it is enriched by the earnest of the inheritance; so that as we are together, I think the order is the Spirit saying, “Lord Jesus” (1 Corinthians 12: 3), and all being done in the dignity and power of the anointing. So in 1 Corinthians 12: 12, “So also is the Christ”, that is the public thing here anointed; and as we proceed in our service, I think the Spirit comes in as the Spirit of adoption; it is more an inner thing; and that is the reason why I think the outward things are specified here as anointed; because God is concerned that the public situation should be according to Him, according to the anointing; otherwise we cannot enter inside.

AJD Does the anointing refer to what others can take account of in a dignified and orderly way?

JT That is right; it is what is public.

HH It justifies the notices.

JT Quite so; the giving out of notices — all that comes into the public side. The anointing is stressed as attaching to that. If the public side is right, it will take care of the private side. The private side is the normal issuance from that. We get a spirit of adoption.

AR Perhaps we are concerned sometimes as to how we end our morning meetings, but should we not ^[p. 130] be concerned as to how we commence them? If we begin right, we shall finish right.

JT I think so; the Spirit of adoption will find its place if the public side is right, if the anointing is there. Elsewhere, we are told the altar was anointed seven times because it is a question of giving, of sacrifice; it is a spiritual thing, not merely to make a show of myself.

WJC The giving out of a hymn should be in the power of the anointing.

JT Quite so.

CCS Why is the altar described as most holy?

JT I think because of being public; we are so apt to discredit and think lightly of the public side of things.

WJC The anointing is available for us in all that we do.

JT Quite so. The anointing oil is there; so the Lord goes up and the Spirit comes down according to that.

Ques In 1 Corinthians 12: 3, you referred to the saints saying, “Lord Jesus”. Is that the thought you are stressing, that it brings in the power of the anointing?

JT I think that is where the power of the anointing is applicable. No one can say. Lord Jesus, except by the Spirit. An unconverted man can easily say Lord Jesus; but the apostle is speaking about assembly service and how it cannot really be said aside from the power of the Spirit.

EP Do you think in that way we are preserved from human innovations? Moses had great dignity in this chapter, did he not?

JT I think so; the anointing is the test of everything.

RAL Is giving out a hymn at the beginning of the meeting in connection with the anointing or in the power ^[p. 131] of the Spirit?

JT The anointing is the Spirit.

RAL Is there not a difference between the way announcements are given out and the way in which I stand up to praise God?

JT The anointing here as a type alludes to the thing being done in the power of the Spirit, that you do not do it as a natural man; that is what is meant. But the additional thought as to the Spirit is the spirit of adoption which belongs more to the inner side of our position.

CAM I was thinking in that connection, the great desire amongst the saints to know this inner thing, this wonderful matter about the Spirit of sonship. The very fact that the Lord is calling attention to these outward things to rid us of human ideas, should in itself be an encouragement that our spirits should not faint in any way about it, do you not think?

JT Quite so. I think the Lord is greatly helping as to what is according to His own mind spiritually. The tide of apostasy is more rampant than most of us are aware of. The Lord is meeting it by reality; however small or despised the people may be, the Lord has something answering to the mind of heaven, it is the tabernacle conditions. It is an immense victory that it is so. We shall be helped if we see the order of the thing and each placing himself under Moses and taking on the idea of the tabernacle. There shall be one tabernacle, whether I am isolated or in a small meeting, the one tabernacle applies. I must be in the light of that to keep the unity of the Spirit, to know about what is current everywhere, to have assembly ears, to hear and be in accord with all that is according to the tabernacle. So that the testimony is maintained universally. So now what you get after the anointing is in verses 17 to 20: “And it came to pass in the first month in the second year, on the first of the month, that the tabernacle was set ^[p. 132] up. And Moses set up the tabernacle, and put in its bases, and fixed its boards, and put in its bars, and set up its pillars. And he spread the tent over the tabernacle, and put the covering of the tent above over it; as Jehovah had commanded Moses. And he took and put the testimony into the ark”. Think of the magnitude of that expression. The ark of the testimony is there and he put the testimony into the ark: what God has in His mind. Everything now is set up and is functioning, everything in the ark as the ark has its place and the testimony is in the ark; and then he put the staves in the ark, meaning that it is to be a movable state of things. We are to be moving on. “And put the mercy-seat above on the ark. And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, and hung up the veil of separation, and covered the ark of the testimony; as Jehovah had commanded Moses. And he put the table in the tent of meeting, on the side of the tabernacle northward, outside the veil”. It is functioning; and he “arranged the bread in order upon it before Jehovah; as Jehovah had commanded Moses, ... And he lighted the lamps before Jehovah”; they are functioning, too, and there is fragrant incense burning as the altar is mentioned and then “He hung up the curtain of the entrance to the tabernacle. And he put the altar of burnt-offering at the entrance to the tabernacle of the tent of meeting, and offered on it the burnt-offering and the oblation; as Jehovah had commanded Moses”. No time is lost; the service is already on: “And he set the laver between the tent of meeting and the altar, and put water in it for washing. And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet out of it, when they went into the tent of meeting”. It is also functioning, and “He set up the court round about the tabernacle and the altar, and hung up the curtain of the gate of the court. And so Moses finished the work”. Now there ^[p. 133] it is; the whole thing is there, and every item is doing its part, there is no unreadiness; each one is in his place and functioning, and then we have the cloud covering the tent; as if God said, ‘Now I am taking all that on’. God set dignity upon all that; God protects it; and the glory filled the tabernacle.

AJD It is remarkable how many times, “as Jehovah had commanded Moses” is repeated in this paragraph you have just read.

JT It is very noticeable. What can it be but God stressing the idea of obedience upon us? There are to be no innovations at all.

CHH There are seven different groups of things ending by “as Jehovah had commanded Moses”. I was wondering if those things could be put together as separate items, but hanging together.

JT There is a good deal in that. In verses 16, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27 and 32; as it has been remarked, the repetition of that phrase is very striking.

AHP Have you any thought why in 2 Chronicles 5, Moses, David, and Solomon are all brought together in relation to this great service, the glory of God filling it? I was wondering whether that would be a counterpart to the full thought.

JT To bring that together is very interesting.

AHP Solomon assembling the elders of Israel.

JT Quite so.

HH Is not that the record of things after the breakdown in Chronicles, the record of things after everything has gone to Babylon publicly; so that the appreciation of these things is cherished in the hearts of the saints while the breakdown continues publicly?

JT It is said very early in 1 Chronicles that Judah was carried away captive because of their unfaithfulness, and then we have all the wonderful display of glory in the ministry by David and ^[p. 134] Solomon, as if Judah missed all that in spite of the wonderful privilege in their midst.

CHH In connection with the ministry of Moses, would it not teach us to put things together in order? should we not attain intelligence as to putting things together in order in the service?

JT The thing comes home to you that each one is an item. It is the parts being put in by the mediator, all passed upon and commanded, and being put in their place by the mediator, each put in its place. The instruction is, Am I in my place? Is the Lord having His way with me? Am I functioning? That is the way the thing should come. If I am not, I am marring the situation. The matter here is so pleasing to Jehovah. It says Moses finished the work and the cloud covered the tent of meeting. God says, ‘I will take on all that; it is all pleasing to Me’. The cloud means I have the protection that God extends to that position. Our position is invulnerable, for the cloud covers us. The next thing is the glory of God filled the tabernacle. He is perfectly restful to abide and take up His resting place within.

JS “And they shall make me a sanctuary, that I may dwell among them”, and He is seen to move now as to it.

JT I think that is it. Then what follows is to bring out the movableness of this; it contemplates movement, “When the cloud was taken up from over the tabernacle the children of Israel journeyed in all their journeys. And if the cloud were not taken up, then they did not journey until the day that it was taken up. For the cloud of Jehovah was on the tabernacle by day, and fire was in it by night, before the eyes of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys” (chapter 40. 36 - 38). So that we are under protection of the divine residence there, and then moving entirely in accord with the mind of heaven. There is no room at all for man’^[p. 135] s will.

JS Heaven is seen now controlling the movements; they can only move as the cloud was taken up.

AH I was wondering whether you implied that the fire stands over against the exercise of man’s will; whereas the cloud stands for the divine presence in a favourable way.

JT I think it is protection, a symbol of the divine presence, protected by day and by night. At the same time the thought of the residence, the glory filling the tabernacle.

AJD Are these features to be understood by us locally and worked out by us locally?

JT Yes; the administrative side must be local, but we never forget that there it is one tabernacle. It is one; Peter mentioned three. It is to maintain the unity. What is done in one locality should be done everywhere; but it must be right; it must be a tabernacle matter.

CHH What is involved in the moving of the cloud for us?

JT God is moving; God has a free hand. It is a symbol of God’s presence. We have the cloud before the tabernacle. We have it in Egypt even, and how it moved behind the Israelites to protect them from the Egyptians; but now it is moving in relation to the structure. God would indicate His mind, in ministry it may be. The great principle here is subjection, anointing, each in his place, and then the glory and movement in relation to that.

CHH Would movement be in connection with any fresh ministry that God may give us?

JT I think so. We have it in the Acts; Acts is the best tabernacle book in this sense. We see how the positions were altered.

CHH So that in that connection it is essential that we move together.

JT Quite so, “Keep the unity of the Spirit in the uniting bond of peace”, Ephesians 4: 3.

AR In Numbers 10, where you get the first idea of movement, you get all the tribes moving and then the tribe of Dan moving last. There is no such thing as one tribe moving and not another, is there?

JT All moving, quite so. Each is his own place.

ABP Do you have a concrete example of what we have been speaking of in Antioch? Barnabas has the sense of measure, he fits in with Saul, makes room for him, and then the cloud rests over the whole situation. The disciples were first called christians at Antioch. Then the service follows; there were prophets, those ministering to the Lord, and then the Spirit speaks.

JT Quite so. The Spirit is then free, and the Spirit spoke then, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul”, Acts 13: 2. You can understand how the whole position focuses on this new movement. That was the thing.

Rem Psalm 122 would give us a delightful setting of the position, “Jerusalem, which art built as a city that is compact together, whither the tribes go up, the tribes of Jah, a testimony to Israel, to give thanks unto the name of Jehovah!” (verses 3, 4). Is that the setting now as maintained in the power of the Spirit of God?

JT Quite so. A song of degrees; it is an upward movement.

SP Is there any connection with this and 2 Chronicles 6: 3, “And the king turned his face and blessed the whole congregation of Israel”?

JT Quite so. The Lord’s countenance being upon us, I suppose.