THE WORK OF GOD (2)
THE WORK OF GOD (2)
JM Would you kindly say a word or two as to what we have had before us in regard to the continuity of the work of God?
JT The thought that I had arose from Exodus 3. Exodus 3 and Psalm 90 put together enable us to gather what light Moses had; the Psalm indicating that he had come to the knowledge of God in so far as was possible. There is in that way a correspondence between the Pentateuch and John’s gospel, and the Psalms and John’s epistle. Moses in the Pentateuch gives an account of things as they were; he writes by the Spirit, from the knowledge he had of God, and he brings God in: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was waste, and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light, and there was light”, Genesis 1: 1 - 3. He brings God in; but he brings Him in as One known, not only as the One who dwelt in the bush, but as One who was known to him in the tabernacle. That is, God had come within his range.
He led his flock to the back side of the desert, to Horeb the mount of God, and the bush burned, the “thorn-bush”; God had come into that; into very humble circumstances; and Moses says, “Let me now turn aside and see this great sight, why the thorn-bush is not burnt”. That is to say, he was thoughtful; he indicates at once spiritual thoughtfulness. And then when God saw that he turned aside He spoke to Him out of the bush, and said, “Moses, Moses!” Now that was God introducing Himself.
But then subsequently He called Moses up to the [p. 288] mount; and Moses there on two occasions of forty days each, with God. And in the unfolding of the tabernacle, Moses had the opportunity of apprehending that God was coming into circumstances that were within his range, not only in the burning bush, which was unconsumed, but in that which was embellished, that which was made artistically; God would be there. So that God had come to dwell in circumstances suited, but nevertheless such as were measurable. Moses, therefore, had an opportunity of apprehending God as no one else, for the way into the holiest was never barred to him; he always had access; and God spoke to him as a man would speak to his friend, face to face. So that he came to apprehend God in that way.
But in referring to God in the Psalms, which would be the outcome of all this, he goes far back; he says, “From everlasting to everlasting thou art God”. “Before the mountains were brought forth, and thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from eternity to eternity thou art God”. Now to my mind this gospel is the extension or opening up of that; and I think it is arrived at through the epistle of John, for in the epistle he begins by referring to what the apostles had seen, what they had heard, and what they had touched, or handled, what had come within their range. And then he says at the end, “We know that the Son of God has come”. He had come in flesh and blood. Earlier in the chapter he had said, “This is he that came by water and blood”. But then he says, “We know that the Son of God has come”. That is experience; that is not simply by report, it is by experience; just as Moses could say it by experience; the Psalm is experimental. And so John says, He “has given us an understanding that we should know him that is true; and we are in him that is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life”, 1 John 5: 20.
[p. 289] Well, that in the language of Psalm 90 goes back to before the mountains were brought forth; but then He is that — it is what He is, the true God — that is what He is to us, and eternal life. In other words, God has come within our range in a Man; He has come within the range of our intelligence, and our affections. He was seen, and heard, and handled. And that is what makes it so intensely interesting, that it is the One who has thus been known in a familiar way by those who loved Him, that is the true God. He is known not simply by report, but by experience, as Thomas says, “My Lord and my God”. That was the result of a touch of the finger and the hand. If He is my Lord and my God, He is Eternal Life, and that extends backwards and forwards; God said to Moses, Tell them “I AM” hath sent you.
Now, the epistle of John is really based on the statement we get here in the first chapter of John: “The Word became flesh and dwelt among us”. That is what I had in mind; and that we may see that in relation to all that, the work of God proceeds. So that what is immediately before us is this, that the Word became flesh. Mark, it does not say became man; the point is, flesh — which would include the Lord’s birth and boyhood — the whole truth of the incarnation.
JM Was this the fulness of the way in which God appeared to Moses?
JT This is the fulness of it. You see, Moses saw a bush, which was a very insignificant thing in itself; a thorn-bush burning, which would refer to what God is in discipline; but then he afterwards apprehended God in the tabernacle (i.e., that which was made). The Word, here (John 1), does not mean made from anything; the word in this passage is become; it was His own action.
Ques You referred a few times to a thorn-bush; what is to be understood in regard to [p. 290] it?
JT The outward insignificance of the people among whom God dwelt; a thorn-bush or “bramble” is very insignificant.
Ques What does the thorn-bush represent now?
JT Our outward position. We are in the wilderness period yet, and it is not God’s thought that any outward dignity or glory should be attached to His people; so that what is around us is altogether contrary to the mind of God. The mustard tree becomes a great tree, and fills the whole earth. The tabernacle itself in its outward appearance was insignificant.
Ques Would it refer to us in an individual way?
JT It refers to the saints as they are; “an afflicted and poor people who trust in the Lord”.
WH Does not the spirit of that smallness appear in Psalm 90?
JT Well, it does. Psalm 90 gives an outline of what man is in the flesh; but then he says toward the end of the Psalm, “Return, Jehovah”, which would indicate God coming in, in resurrection; and that would bring in another thing, the work; so he says, “Let it repent thee concerning thy servants. Satisfy us early with thy loving kindness; that we may sing for joy and be glad all our days. Make us glad according to the days wherein thou hast afflicted us”, etc. “Let thy work appear unto thy servants”. There we get another side; that is what is put on us, “the beauty of the Lord”.
But one would like particularly that we might see the bearing of the Word becoming flesh and dwelling among men. He came within their range. The gospels show what He was here; but the principle throughout this gospel is that you go to Him. The principle in Luke is that He comes to us; but one feature throughout John is that souls move to Him; they come within His range as drawn of the Father; and having come, they apprehend Him; so that the thought of contemplation is immediately introduced. “We have contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father”, John 1: 14.
Ques What is the significance of Christ as the Word?
JT It is that He has revealed the mind of God; He has spoken. That is what you find out if you come. He dwelt among them; and we shall see later how those who came within His range were affected. Peter says, “Thou hast words of life eternal”, John 6: 68.
Ques So the “I AM” who sent Moses is the Word now become flesh?
JT Yes; instead of a bush it was a Man, in the Word become flesh. The Lord uses the very words He used to Moses: “Before Abraham was, I AM”, John 8: 58. But we have to come to Him; so, throughout the gospel we have, “Come and see”; this He said to the first persons who wished to know about Him. Hence no part of Scripture requires more spiritual intelligence than this. You do not get definitions, the things have to be found out.
Ques Was He ever the Word, or did He ever become the Word until He took flesh?
JT Well, the appellation is one by which He was know here; and it is employed to designate the Person at any time. “In the beginning was the Word”; that does not convey that He was then expressing God, but that the Person was there; it goes on to say that the Word was God. We have to be careful not to go beyond Scripture, and predicate things of Him as “in the form of God” that strictly refer to Him as Man.
FHB He could not be the expression of God until He became flesh.
JM So you would say it was the way the disciples had learned Him; in coming to Him, they came within the blessed range of His influence.
JT Yes. Peter said, “thou hast the words of eternal life”. “The Word” covered all that was said.
Ques God was never without the power of giving expression to Himself?
JT Yes, but then it is the Lord Jesus that is in view; it is when He had taken the form of Man that the designation literally applies. We must be careful not to go beyond what is written.
Ques “The Word” would be true of Him in incarnation?
JT That is how He became known; and it does not appear at His birth: “Thou shalt call his name Jesus”, that was the name given. The thought in the “Word” came out later, because it was what He was to those who heard Him. Luke uses it, as well as John. But then what a thought that the Word became flesh!
EM Would you say a little more as to contemplating His glory. In the glad tidings the heart of man is appealed to, but here it is contemplating His glory.
JT That is what I have been referring to. The Lord having come near, as I was saying, like Moses, you turn aside to see. When God saw that Moses turned aside then He spoke to him, as if to convey that God values those who contemplate Him as God, and then Moses is able to say something about Him. Now, suppose any one of us were asked, What is it like? Could I describe it? ... It is not here “the Father”.
FHB No, nor “the Son”. It is as “an only-begotten with a father”.
JT It is a figure really; that is, it refers to what any person may have observed, what an only-begotten is to a father. That is the way the apostle conveys the glory that he saw when he contemplated the Word become flesh. So that the mind now is immediately directed to a familiar family relationship.
[p. 293] That is how the matter stands. We have introduced at once the great testimony set out in Abraham, because he above all men represents a father, and Isaac an only one: “Take now thy son, thine only son, Isaac, whom thou lovest”. You see Moses regarded what came before him; and it helps greatly to introduce Moses here, because this is the fulness of Moses. Christianity, therefore, is revelation connected with family relationship. We are prepared not only for the words of God in the Word becoming flesh, but a family relationship is set out in the “only-begotten”.
WHM That is very beautiful; because it was the God of glory that called Abraham, and it was the glory that Moses longed to see. I suppose when he saw the bush burning and not consumed, it was like this One that came by grace and truth.
SL Did not you say yesterday evening that God’s revelation and ways came out and were made available to us largely on the ground of relationship?
JT Well, family relationships are primary with God; and a family being primarily God’s thought it is an eternal thought, not provisional; it is the relationship in which men are to be with Him.
FHB Though it was primarily God’s thought it had never been brought to light before; man had never been seen in such a glory as this, as of “an only-begotten with a father, full of grace and truth”.
JT It is now brought to light. There had been inklings of it; Adam was not an only-begotten, he was made in full manhood, but Isaac was begotten, he was one that had been waited for, and asked for, and it is with him that the word ‘love’ first appears; the next is in connection with Rebekah. So that the greatest thought is apparently a son, and an only-begotten son. “Take now thy son, thine only son, Isaac, whom thou lovest”; God had His Son in view when He thus spake.
[p. 294] JM And the apostle would have us, not only to observe the grace that was in Him, but also His glory.
JT Deuteronomy, which is the end of the exercise which began in Exodus 3, contemplates that the people were to be sons of Jehovah (Deuteronomy 14: 1); that is the relation in which they were to come into the land. John introduces the family thought at once here: “A glory as an only-begotten with a father”; and then he says, “Full of grace and truth”; full of it.
PSP And is the fact of His having come within our range the result only of His becoming flesh, or is it also of the Father’s work in John?
JT Well, that is the very start; the Word became flesh, that is, He came within our range; but then the other side is you are drawn to Him, and you contemplate His glory. Movement in you is the result of the work of God.
PSP You were speaking of the Lord coming to us in Luke, but that would not be the thought of the Lord coming within our range?
JT Luke says, the Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where the man was; but that is not John’s point of view; John’s point is that He has come so far that the work of God in man might come to light; so that souls having come and enquired after Him when they hear John speak (Jesus having turned and seeing them following), He says to them, “What seek ye? And they said to him, Rabbi, where abidest thou? He says to them, Come and see”. That is what you look for in John; hence the practical word to us is, Am I moving? After this the chapter shows one and another moving.
PSP Would you say He has only come within the range of those who are the subjects of the work of [p. 295] God?
JT Well, I think He comes within man’s range, but then who will take notice of it?
Rem He came as light; light shines on every man.
JT Yes; the next thing is, is God working? And the work of God will show itself.
Ques Would you say the work of God shows itself by the fact of one coming to the Person who comes within our range?
JT Yes, that is right. So it says, “he that doeth truth cometh to the light” (John 3: 21); it is not that he should come, but he cometh.
Rem There is no doubt John’s line is a line of movement; and we come rather into the Lord’s sphere than He into ours, as in Luke.
JT Yes, and as a result you have a circle: “We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren”, 1 John 3: 14. You look into yourself for the evidence; that is to say, the work is of God, it is all of its own kind.
Rem So the movement would be towards Christ; to find our place in His sphere of things.
JT Yes. So “they went therefore and saw where he abode; and they abode with him that day”.
Ques Is it all with a view to the knowledge of God?
JT Yes.
EM Is that why He is termed Rabbi?
JT John, interpreting the word for us, conveys that He is a Teacher. You need not only light in a general way, but you need instruction, and He is now apprehended in this way.
Ques Is it possible to know the Person apart from coming to Him?
JT I think not.
Ques Is it the result of the work of God that Peter can confess Him as “the Christ the Son of the living God”?
JT Well, that is in Matthew. Here in our chapter the Lord says, “Thou shalt be called Cephas”; and then we get the meaning of that, “a stone”; showing that the Lord gives you your name, in John’s way of putting things.
PSP So that there is a correspondence between the work of God as seen in connection with Moses, and the work of God at the present moment; and it is such as we get intelligence to perceive.
JT Yes, he saw the eternal side; that indicated a previous history.
Ques Was it not John’s ministry that set the disciples in movement; he said, “Behold the Lamb of God”?
JT Well, it was; they followed Jesus; that shows what ministry can do. But note, it is when Jesus saw them following that He enquired of them; that is specially to be noted here; Jesus having turned and seeing them following, says to them, What seek ye?
Ques Would that not be like a challenge?
JT I think it comes to us today as to whether we are following; because if we are not following we miss present enjoyment of the divine dwelling.
Rem In Luke we find a number of people proposing to follow, and the Lord puts a check on them; Luke 14: 25 - 35.
JT That is a picture of modern Christendom, but you do not get that here; following the Lord here indicates the work of God. The point is that it is the following ones who get the light and the privileges, and the question for me is, Am I following? Jesus turned and saw them following; He takes note of that. Now, if I am not following I could not enquire from Him like these, nor do I come into the abode. John does not define the house of God. Hebrews identifies the house of God. It is a provisional thing in the saints — “whose house are we”.
But what underlies that is this — “Come and see”. That is the spiritual thing, and I apprehend Moses arrived at it when he said, “Thou hast been our dwelling-place”, because that is where Jesus dwelt. He did not invite His followers to the temple; that was not where He dwelt. We get no inklings as to where it is in a material sense. So we have to arrive at this spiritually. No one is in the house of God in a practical way — though he may break bread — unless he is dwelling in God.
FHB It never struck me so much before how frequently we get coming to Him referred to in John’s gospel. He encourages it, and the result is that they were dwelling where He dwelt, in the Father’s love.
Ques Would you connect the dwelling with verse 18 in that way: “The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father”?
JT Yes; they “contemplated his glory, a glory as of an only-begotten with a father, full of grace and truth”. Verse 18 is a definite statement that He is in the bosom of the Father; it is no longer the figure as in verse 14: “The only-begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father”. Before, it was; the verb is in the past tense, but here it is the present time; the declaration is in the One who is in the bosom of the Father; He is there.
Ques Are these movements that you speak of, characteristic features that link up the work of God all down the ages?
JT Yes. John is sometimes astronomical in his references; you have the thought of influence and attraction; the sun is in the heaven and it illuminates all, it heats all; but then other things are in relation to it, and in being in relation to it, to disregard it physically would be lawless. So that the earth feels the heat of the sun, it is held there; and so are all the other items of the system. So I think the sun sets things going; without it there would be nothing [p. 298] alive. So here they go and see where He dwells, and they abide with Him that day. And then immediately they become active; they are governed by the impulse in Christ.
JM'G How do we come into the good of dwelling in God; are there not certain conditions necessary on our side — i.e., walking in the Spirit, etc.?
JT Well, ministry helps. The Lord has ordained ministry as a means by which things are touched. You say, Well, I never thought of that before; it is not that you are negligent, but you never thought of it before, and the Lord intends that you should think of it; having ascended on high He has provided for that, so that there should be ministry. And John, “looking upon Jesus as he walked” — it is movement — says, “Behold the Lamb of God”, etc. That is, we may say, ministry; it was the outcome of a heart affected by Christ. And they heard John speak, and they followed Jesus. Now, they might have seen the beauty of Christ, but they did not; another brother may see what you have not seen; it is not that you have been remiss or neglectful, you may have been perhaps; but anyway the ministry is to call attention to the beauties of Christ, to what is there. And then, am I going to follow? When they heard John speaking, they followed Jesus. It seems to me to be set down here as a principle that is followed throughout the gospel. It would lead you to pray, and get to the Lord; and you acquire the knowledge of God, and the place that He has with God.
The queen of Sheba went to Solomon. Solomon is a type of the Lord as Son. “I was a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother”, Proverbs 4: 3. He had that place; God took him; he was David’s son, of course, but God says, I will take him, he will be my son — a figure of Christ. The two disciples went to see where the Lord dwelt;
[p. 299] the queen of Sheba went up to see Solomon; if he had come down to where she was she would have seen a wonderful man, who would have said wonderful things to her; but she would not have seen him where he dwelt; she would not have seen his magnificence and glory, or his ascent by which he went up to the house of Jehovah. Now, that was the dwelling-place; Solomon had built it, it was built by the son, “They went ... and saw where he abode, and they abode with him that day”.
Rem They address Him here as Teacher.
JT Teaching comes out in Christ. If there is anything that the saints need more than another it is teaching.
Ques Would He take that place to lead them into what was expressed in Him as the Word?
JT Quite; and then, moreover, to the features of the dwelling-place. Solomon is peculiarly a teacher in the Old Testament; he taught the people knowledge; Ecclesiastes 12: 9. The book of Proverbs is of special value in regard to the house of God.
Ques Was the Lord’s invitation to “Come and see” in order that He might declare the Father to them?
JT Well, I think in those two hours they would see something of what He was with the Father.
Ques Would it be right to say, speaking of the dwelling-place, that we see in John 14 where He would bring us? “In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”.
JT Yes; and in that chapter also He says, “In my Father’s house there are many abodes; were it not so, I had told you”. That is, He holds nothing back.
Ques Is that not where He would bring us now?
JT It is future. I would prefer to confine our attention for the moment to the present spiritual side. He does not say anything about a house here; it is [p. 300] where He dwells. What seek ye? He says; not whom, but what. And they said to Him, “Rabbi, where abidest thou”? He says to them, “Come and see”. I think it is a question of spiritual apprehension, not a definition.
Rem Anyone with ordinary intelligence can take in the thought of the saints here, men and women; but this is not that.
JT This underlies that; and if we have not got this, we do not understand that rightly. First you have to know what Christ was with God where He abode, because that is not affected by any conditions down here.
Ques I suppose that is why the interrogation is not, Whom seek ye? but, What seek ye? They already had Himself.
JT In chapter 14 He speaks about those who keep His words, “If any one love me he will keep my word”, and He says, “My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”. That is immense privilege; but that is not His dwelling with the Father; that is His coming and dwelling with you. But this is His dwelling-place, and I connect it with Psalm 90: “Lord, thou hast been our dwelling-place in all generations”; Moses might have connected the thought of dwelling with the tabernacle, but instead of that he says, “Thou hast been our dwelling-place”. He dwells in light unapproachable, but yet He is the dwelling-place of the saints; and they come to know it.
Ques You think these spiritual results flow from spiritual ministry?
JT They do. John the baptist is the ideal. John the evangelist records nothing of John’s failure; he seems to have in mind that John is the ideal; he says virtually John the baptist had the most wonderful opportunity a man ever had of exalting himself; some were ready to recognise him as the Messias;
[p. 301] but he says, No. His heart is taken up with the Greater; he says, “I knew him not, but he who sent me to baptise with water, he said to him, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit, and (he says) I have seen and borne witness that this is the Son of God”.
The Baptist seems to be John’s ideal; and so he goes on to say, “Again on the morrow”. During the night he had opportunity to reflect. Have you missed an opportunity? The next day John is equal to it. “There stood John and two of his disciples. And, looking at Jesus as he walked, he says, Behold the Lamb of God”. His heart is engaged with the Person, and that is the thing that produces movement in the other two; his heart is taken up with Christ, and as you remarked, that is the secret of effective ministry; you are affected yourself. Then, before he goes home, John said of the Lord, “He must increase, but I must decrease”. He is prepared to lose reputation, he had to disappear altogether in the light of Christ the heavenly One. That is how John the evangelist presents John the baptist; and I think he sets before us a true minister.