THE CARE MEETING
THE CARE MEETING
ANW Is there a clear sequence in all these blessings?
JT I think so. The tribes here are not taken up according to birth, but according to their spiritual settings. We noticed, the last time, that Joseph represents, in a sense, the end reached in the chapter, which is fulness of blessing; “the myriads of Ephraim” and “the thousands of Manasseh” (verse 17), correspond with Ephesians, and suggest the idea of our full position in Christ. What is said of the remaining tribes is the filling out of this. Zebulun and Issachar represent the exercise of love in hospitality, and they offer the “sacrifices of righteousness”. “They shall invite the peoples to the mountain”, it says, which would mean that there is hospitality, but above the level of the natural, for they invite “to the mountain”. “The abundance of the seas” and “the hidden treasures of the sand”, would represent accumulated spiritual wealth. With Gad it is a question of enlargement — the commandments and lawgiving would be the mind of God governing us authoritatively, so that the care meeting, as we speak of it, gets a setting in connection with this tribe.
ANW Had you evangelising in mind in speaking of enlargement?
JT Yes; we have the evangelising spirit in Zebulun, and the wealth that comes in in relation to both Zebulun and Issachar.
ANW Then is the enlargement due to numbers?
JT Well, it is due to more than that. If enlargement is attached to Gad, it is safe, because it is a question of the law which will not allow of any extraneous [p. 407] material.
TA Would 2 Corinthians 6: 13 fit in here? “Let your heart also expand itself”.
JT Yes. Enlargement is in good hands, for Gad regards the will of God, and he has courage and energy. “As a lion doth he dwell, and teareth the arm, even the top of the head. And he provided the first part for himself, for there was reserved the portion of the lawgiver”, verse 20, 21. That means that he made provision for the lawgiver. There is respect for the law; then it goes on: “And he came with the heads of the people; the justice of Jehovah and his judgments hath he executed with Israel”, verse 21.
BTF What is the power of the arm?
JT Tearing the arm would rob the opposer of power. The arm and head refer to power and wisdom, I think; tearing these would deprive the opposing elements of their means of offence. How this comes about now, has to be understood; applied spiritually, it is a question of taking counsel with the brethren as to how to meet opposing elements, thus depriving them of their power and wisdom. The first epistle to the Corinthians is the full amplification of this; it shows how the apostle deprived the opposers at Corinth of their strength and wisdom.
ANW Paul writes the first epistle as the lawgiver; in the second epistle enlargement is in view.
TH Why is “Sosthenes the brother” introduced with the lawgiver?
JT That is the modifying element; “the brother” would cause authority to settle down in our souls acceptably. Of course, Paul was not wanting in brotherly feeling, but the mention of Sosthenes as the brother assures us that it entered into his letter.
CAM Moses was the lawgiver. There are times when law is needed. Lawlessness is a terrible thing, and it comes very close to us, does it not?
JT Yes, one feels the danger of that in one’s self.
[p. 408] To answer to what is seen here in Gad, to be qualified for taking counsel and part generally in the government of the house of God, one has to govern one’s self. It says, “He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city”, Proverbs 16: 32.
CAM Yes, it is not just laying down the law; in bringing in the requirements of justice the apostle could entreat the Corinthians “by the meekness and gentleness of the Christ”, 2 Corinthians 10: 1.
ANW I thought that was largely the suggestion as to Sosthenes. The apostle could lay down the law by himself, but the association of a brother with him would temper what he wrote. The apostle might have written more severely, using his apostolic authority, than he did with the presence of Sosthenes, the brother.
JT That is the idea. We speak of a brothers’ meeting, but more correctly it should be an elders’ meeting. The elders wear crowns (see Revelation 4: 4); if I wear a crown, it shows that I have acquired something in myself — that, amongst other things, I have gained a moral victory over myself; I am free from personal feeling in all the counsel I give, or moral weight I may exert. I think all that enters into Gad, because he reserved a portion for the lawgiver, alluding, no doubt, to Moses’ grave which is said to be in the territory of Gad, but the point is, he valued the lawgiver.
CAM Psalm 110: 22 speaks of Joseph teaching Pharaoh’s elders wisdom. I suppose the idea of elders now is the same thing in principle, but the legislative bodies of the nations would not think much of what we seek to maintain in this way, and yet it is the most powerful thing on earth; so that we should be very dignified in connection with it.
JT That is good; we should be dignified in a spiritual sense, as having to do with the things of [p. 409] God. The Lord indicated the present moment when He said, “It is as a man gone out of the country, having left his house and given to his bondmen the authority” (Mark 13: 34); it is a question, therefore, of how it is used — whether the bondmen are equal to the exercising of it.
ANW So that the care meeting is not a place where each expresses his personal opinion or feeling about a thing?
JT No. He should be totally disinterested, as far as he is concerned, since he is considering for the rights of God, and I think that is what Gad means here. He reserved a portion for the lawgiver, and “he came with the heads of the people”; that is, he is one who came with others, but it is “with the heads of the people”. Headship, suggesting wisdom, enters into it; so that one can come with the brethren. Coming with them means that I go as one of them. Paul in speaking to the Corinthians of Timothy, says, “... for I expect him with the brethren” (1 Corinthians 16: 11); that is, he is not exercising any distinction among them, he comes with them; so here, Gad comes with the heads of the people; then it says, “The justice of Jehovah and his judgments hath he executed with Israel”.
BTF The thought has been advanced that it is good for younger brothers to be at the brothers’ meetings, because of the experience they would gain.
JT That is right. While it is a question of “the heads of the people” yet the younger brothers should be present; as there in a becoming manner, they learn how things are done, and can say, “Amen”, to what is done.
WSS Would there be the thought of Gad moving in the sense of the support of the heads? There would be a waiting to move and go forward with others.
JT I think that is right. “With” shows that I have the mutual feeling. We read that “in the multitude of counsellors there is safety”, Proverbs 11: 14. I think Gad would join in with the brethren. However distinguished as to tribe, he would be mutually with the heads of the people.
EB Would it link up with Proverbs 31: 23: “Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land”.
JT Yes. Sitting among the elders is a most interesting thought. He is one of them. The same feature is seen in the book of Ruth; we have, “Thou, such an one, turn aside, sit down here”, chapter 4: 1. You are not in a hurry. When you have matters of judgment before you, deliberation is necessary, therefore you “sit down”, instead of rushing things through.
FHL Such a one as Gad, coming with the heads of the people, is already qualified, and they recognise it.
JT It is important to sit down with the brethren, for however distinguished you may be, you recognise the others; God loves variety, and would bring out what everyone has.
WSS Paul came to Corinth, and took a very small place; in principle, he dwelt in a tent. He did not come as a great man, did he? In connection with what has been remarked, it is said in Ezekiel 44: 24: “And in controversy they shall stand to judge: they shall judge it according to my judgments; and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all my solemnities”. The sons of Zadok here would represent those who are qualified.
CAM After Joshua the high priest had been clothed with “festival-robes”, it was said to him, “If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts; and I will give thee a place to walk among these that stand by. Hear now. Joshua the high priest, thou and thy [p. 411] fellows that sit before thee — for they are men of portent”, Zechariah 3: 7, 8.
JT That is very helpful in relation to that which we are speaking of; how we get a place among those “that stand by” — those who are standing by what is of God. Then it is further said to Joshua, “... thou and thy fellows that sit before thee — for they are men of portent”. They were men as signs, and signified something distinctive, as in the position indicated. These things are of great importance in relation to the house of God. Then you have the results: God executed “the justice of Jehovah and his judgments ... with Israel”. “With” is brought in again — it is a joint matter.
ARS Things are not on individual lines at all.
JT That is a very important thing to have before us in our meetings. The word ‘care’ is very appropriate; it says, “But if one does not know how to conduct his own house, how shall he take care of the assembly of God?” 1 Timothy 3: 5. What a charge it is! In Acts 20 the elders were enjoined as to it. They were overseers of the flock, and were to shepherd the assembly of God. This has to be continued, and dignity in our deliberations is of great importance, also impartiality and moral weight in what we may say.
BTF It is said, “The law was given by Moses grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”, John 1: 17. There would be a measure of grace in connection with the care and government of the assembly.
JT Surely. This is the dispensation which is marked by the reign of grace. It is worthy of note that in Numbers 21 the digging is under the direction of the lawgiver, and is typical of the power of the Spirit of God by which the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled (see Romans 8: 3, 4).
TH Would you say that I might not be qualified [p. 412] to actually take part, but I am there to give my “Amen” to the thing?
JT The Amen is important. Not everyone can say, “Yea”; that is, indicate what should be done, but anyone should be able to say “Amen” and so confirm what is done.
ANW Will you distinguish for us between justice and judgment here?
JT I suppose justice is a general thought. Judgments are more specific. The point is that there should be justice in all matters of adjudication amongst us; in view of which every item of evidence should be weighed. There is in this country, the Department of Justice; that is a great general thought; but there are thousands of cases that have to be dealt with by it, and the question is how that is done. The Judge of Israel was smitten on the cheek (Micah 5: 1), meaning that justice had fallen to the ground. The high priest was in the judge’s seat, and Christ was at the bar; they smote Him on the cheek, but from that point you have laid down the great principle of judgment. The Lord says, “If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou me?” John 18: 23. The Lord’s “if” and “why” mean much here. The high priest was unfit to execute judgment.
WSS In Lamentations 3: 30, we have typically, the Lord giving His cheek to the smiter. I suppose we need to take up the same attitude.
JT I think that if you are at the bar, before false judges, you will show the spirit of judgment in your demeanour. The Judge of Israel was before the high priest. He sets out the great principle of judgment, saying there, “If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou me?” Paul in similar circumstances (Acts 23) failed somewhat in his language to [p. 413] the high priest,
yet in his remarks, maintained the authority of the law.
WSS Hosea 6: 5 says, “My judgment goeth forth as the light”. That is what should characterise judgment.
JT Just so; so that the elders’ meeting as illuminated by the light of God, reaches a right judgment, and this characterises the pronouncement, and the execution of it by the assembly.
RDG With regard to being impartial, 1 Timothy 5: 24 furnishes a scripture for us: “I testify before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, that thou keep these things without prejudice, doing nothing by favour”.
JT Very good! It is so difficult for us to avoid having respect of persons, in judgment; whereas, the bench must be impartial, being concerned about the law, the evidence, etc. Of course, the persons have to be taken into account, but in adhering to the evidence of the case and the law governing it, one cannot be partial.
BFT Would you introduce, in any way, the principle of the “little child” of Matthew 18: 2?
JT Well, it was a question there of who is greatest in the kingdom of the heavens. The Lord had been pointing out the great thought of sonship, and the disciples had not grasped it, but were concerned about the greatest place in the kingdom of the heavens, so He brings in a little child, as if to exhibit the spirit of that kingdom. There was one whom the Lord could call; He cannot call some of us, because we are not always characteristic listeners.
ANW It is remarkable how administration follows on in that chapter.
JT Yes. After you get the spirit of the kingdom, then it is a question of how it works out. If I am trespassed against, do I carry out the spirit of [p. 414] the kingdom toward the one who has trespassed against me? It becomes a test to one — I am brought into the Judicial Department, so to speak, through being trespassed against. It is a question not of reparation, but of gaining the brother, and is a great contrast to the world’s way. If I fail to gain the brother, I am to take one or two besides; and “if he will not listen to them, tell it to the assembly” (Matthew 18: 17); so that we reach the final court of appeal.
GSO If that spirit were more in the care meeting, such would be more effectual.
JT Yes; and the results, as stated in the assembly for administrative action, would be strengthening and dignifying, although in some instances humbling, rather than irksome or depressing. It is the King’s business carried out in His most august assembly.
ANW It is a beautiful expression: “The justice of Jehovah and his judgments”.
JT The “judgments” are exercised by the assembly. The brothers’ care meeting has not authority for this; it can only bring findings; authority belongs to the assembly.
WSS I was thinking of the little child. Solomon had the distinction of sitting on David’s throne, but he took the place of a little child; God gave him an understanding heart, and then he exercised right judgment.
JT A little child knows to whom he should turn. Solomon is a very beautiful example in that way — he asked Jehovah for wisdom. He did not know how to go out and to come in, but he asked for wisdom, and obtained it.
WSS What follows (1 Kings 3) about the two women and the living child is very interesting, and Solomon’s knowing how to use the sword, which I [p. 415] suppose typifies the word of God, sheds light on the situation.
JT He brings to light the mother of the child.
WSS Is not that what is needed in all local exercises? We need the light of the assembly, in order that the thing may be solved in a spiritual way.
JT The mother yearned over the child; the motherly feeling in the exercise of judgment comes into evidence and it is of immense importance.
WSS Would it not be very helpful to always approach these matters on the line of what we have here about Gad, for every question that arises is an opportunity for enlargement?
JT I think that is the point. If there is to be enlargement among us, it is not simply the adding of persons, but God enlarging Gad, meaning that the enlargement is in keeping with the principle of justice and judgment, and that is a safe enlargement.
The next feature here is Dan, then Naphtali, and finally, Asher. We have these three tribes to consider: It says, “Dan is a young lion”. It is said of Gad, “As a lion doth he dwell”. He is in a set position, with the courage of a lion. Dan is a young lion; it says, “He shall spring forth from Bashan”. That is a good word for young brothers. It is a question of what spring they have, and where they spring from; Dan sprang from Bashan.
BTF With an object in view?
JT Yes, but he sprang from a certain place. His tribal position was not in Bashan. Why then should he spring from that place?
CAM We know from Psalm 22, that Bashan was a place where the animals were remarkably strong.
JT Yes: “Many bulls have encompassed me; Bashan’s strong ones have beset me round”, Psalm 22: 12. Dan has ability to spring from that position,
[p. 416] as showing that he could get out of any unsuitable position in a spiritual way.
WSS You mean it was a position which would be calculated to overcome him, but he was not overcome by it.
JT That is the idea. One can spring out of a given position, which is not one’s own (as Bashan apparently was not Dan’s position) — I can spring forth from it in power. It is a question of seeing that I can give up anything, in power. It is a great thing if we can thus leave a position, glorifying God, and not leave it reluctantly, as Lot’s wife looked back toward Sodom. I do not know that you can make much of Bashan itself, but Dan had power to spring forth from it. We are not told where he sprang to.
ANW As soon as Og was overcome, there was a remarkable impetus given the people, was there not?
JT Just so. The overthrow of Og would mean that one overcomes the big I which is one’s natural conception of one’s self, and hinders progress; one is free then to go forward.
RL Was there not strength shown in the death of Christ? “And Jesus, having again cried with a loud voice, gave up the ghost”, Matthew 27: 50.
JT Yes; what happened as the Lord died led the centurion and others to say, “Truly this man was Son of God”. He comes forth in power out of the grave, too.
RL He showed His power in giving up His life. We do not give up our lives as He did.
JT He cried with a loud voice. John (chapter 19: 30) uses a word not found elsewhere in the same connection, to record the Lord’s death; it says, “He delivered up his spirit”. It was an act of power, showing that although His was real death. He did not experience the ordinary process of dying.
ANW We are not told the object of the spring,
[p. 417] but the power of it, by which he springs out of Bashan.
JT Nothing more is said. It is enough for the young Christian to realise that he has this power in the Spirit. He can thus get out of anything not according to the will of God.
FHL Would Stephen suggest it? He went out in strength.
JT Yes. You can see divinely given strength in Stephen. He cried with a loud voice in asking for mercy for his murderers, and then fell asleep. But falling asleep is not delivering up one’s spirit; this is said of the Lord only.
RDG Would Paul be an example of this, in speaking to Ananias? He said, “God will smite thee, whited wall”, Acts 23: 3.
JT After he called the high priest a whited wall, he immediately righted himself. It was a question of power in Paul’s soul.
BTF Why is Dan introduced here?
JT I suppose, as we were remarking, this chapter is constructive, and one of the features is to have power to spring from certain circumstances.
BTF Is not antichrist associated with Dan?
JT Yes, but not here. In Genesis 49: 17 it is said, “Dan will be a serpent on the way”, etc.; it is indicative of an antichristian attitude. Dan is not mentioned in Revelation 7; but this chapter is God’s own setting of the tribes. If Simeon is left out here, that is God’s way of acting — one brother left out here, and another left out somewhere else, but brought in here. We have to leave with God the place each of us is to occupy. As regards Dan’s position in Bashan, you might say to a brother, “Get out of that position”. Well, he may see that it is right he should, but is he in the Spirit so as to have power [p. 418] to act accordingly?
WSS The light would show the need to spring out.
CAM But it is the movement that would result in blessing.
JT A lion is a stately creature; Proverbs 30: 30. A person getting out of an inconsistent position is stately. You are not doing it in a legal way, but with a spring.
WSS It would bring us into being “satisfied with favour”, verse 23.
JT That is next. You may be in a position that is questionable, but you leave it and come to one where you are “satisfied with favour”. What is said of Naphtali is: “Naphtali, satisfied with favour, and full of the blessing of Jehovah, possess thou the west and the south”.
WSS That is what we are to spring into. What an encouragement for all young people, to move into such a sphere!
JT The word to Asher completes the blessing “Asher shall be blessed with sons” (verse 24); that is, increase of the family, but in the most dignified way. There is remarkable variety in the blessing here: Zebulun sucks the abundance of the seas; Naphtali is satisfied with favour, he gets territory in the west and the south; but Asher has sons. Sons going on into eternity, as applied to us, is the great thought of God.
CAM Mordecai was a remarkable family man. He was accepted of his brethren, and he spoke peace to all his seed; Esther 10: 3.
EB Samson was of the tribe of Dan.
JT Yes. Power came into evidence there. We are told that “the Spirit of Jehovah began to move him at Mahaneh-Dan, between Zoreah and Eshtaol”, Judges 13: 25.
EB He is seen later getting out of a false position, in power; Judges 16: [p. 419] 3.
FHL Perhaps the sons of Asher correspond with the myriads of Ephraim.
JT I think so, in the sense of family dignity. Joseph has numbers, and there are the myriads of Ephraim, and the thousands of Manasseh. There will be immensity of numbers, for Christ is first-born among many brethren, and many sons are to be brought to glory. The book of Revelation stresses this thought. One idea of sons is dignity, here the increase of family in Asher is in this sense. The passage goes on to say: “Let him be acceptable to his brethren, and let him dip his foot in oil. Iron and brass shall be thy bolts; and thy rest as thy days. There is none like unto the God of Jeshurun”. We reach, in verses 26 - 29, the final thought of blessing, as marked by the presence with us, and care of God Himself.
WSS I thought about dipping the foot in oil, in connection with the hymn we sang:
“Jesus, Thy footsteps ever show
The path for every child”. (271:1)
What beautiful footsteps they were! The dipping of the foot in oil would suggest spiritual movements which would be helpful thus to the brethren.
JT Feet dipped in oil are brought into correspondence with Christ’s feet. In Peter, we are to “follow in his steps” (1 Peter 2: 21), and in the Song of Songs we have “the footsteps of the flock”, chapter 1: 8.
WSS We find Him by following the footsteps of the flock.
GVD It says, “If we live by the Spirit, let us walk also by the Spirit”, Galatians 5: 25.
TA Anna was of the tribe of Asher, and was very active in speaking of the Lord.