READINGS ON 1 CORINTHIANS (1)
READINGS ON 1 CORINTHIANS (1)
RSS What special thought have you before you in this epistle?
FER In every epistle Christ is presented in some particular way. No two epistles present Christ exactly in the same light. It is a point of the greatest interest to see the light in which Christ is presented in any epistle, and, in connection with that, the purpose of God in so presenting Christ. That was the thought in my mind.
RSS Perhaps you might mention to us the way in which Christ is presented in the various epistles.
FER I can only do it cursorily. For instance, in the epistle to the Romans, Christ is the mercy-seat, the point with God being to declare His righteousness.
In 1 Corinthians: Christ is presented as the wisdom of God and the power of God, the purpose of God being by Christ to overthrow all that existed and to establish what was of Himself.
In 2 Corinthians: Christ is presented as the Yea and Amen; that is, the confirmation of the promises of God.
In Galatians: He is the vessel of Abraham’s blessing to the gentiles.
In Ephesians: He is ascended up far above all heavens that He might fill all things.
In Philippians: He is the life and aim of the christian.
In Colossians: He is the Head, in whom the reconciliation of all things comes to pass.
In 1 Thessalonians: He is the Deliverer from the coming wrath.
In 2 Thessalonians: He is the Destroyer of antichrist.
In 1 Peter: He is the Living Stone, it is a question of a building.
[p. 107] In 2 Peter: He is the Day-Star in the heart of the christian and the kingdom is in view.
In Hebrews: He is the Apostle and High Priest of our profession.
In James: He is the Lord of glory.
In 1 John: He is the true God and eternal life.
Every epistle takes its character from the particular light in which Christ is presented. When you apply that to 1 Corinthians in which He is the wisdom of God and the power of God, it is seen that the purpose of God is to establish here what is of Himself, and on the other hand, to overthrow all that which existed, and had influence over man’s soul.
JP And so in chapter 15 the last enemy to be destroyed is death.
FER Because it is the enemy that holds man in bondage, and its power is destroyed by the resurrection of Christ. 1 Corinthians is an elementary epistle, that is why I thought it might be helpful. It is a very great thing to see what God has proposed to do by Christ.
JSA Would you say that these presentations are made in any special connection with the state of those to whom they were written?
FER That became the immediate occasion of the epistle, but the Spirit of God rises above that and presents Christ in some particular light in regard of the world to come. There is no epistle which, in thought, does not carry you on to the world to come. It is the end in view in every epistle.
RSS I suppose you would say the same thing was true in the gospels.
FER Quite so. Evidently Christ is presented in a special light in each.
RSS But not in the epistles that were written to individuals.
FER They are not doctrinal.
JP What do you mean by the world to come?
FER The world which is going to be set forth in the [p. 108] light of God, and in which God will be glorified; the time of restitution of all things. It says in Hebrews 12, “ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel”. All are constituent parts of the world to come, and we are brought to them by the Spirit of God.
JSA It is not the new heaven and earth, but a new system of things.
RSS Would you repeat for us what is the meaning of Christ as the wisdom of God and the power of God?
FER I think He is the wisdom of God as being the resource of God, the means by which God would put Himself in contact with man; and He is the power of God to overthrow every influence and every enemy that holds men in bondage.
RSS Is that the meaning of the word wisdom — resource?
FER A man of wisdom is a man of resource, so [p. 109] Christ is the resource of God.
RSS The power of God in the Scriptures is largely connected with resurrection, but is this a larger thought?
FER The resurrection of Christ is insisted on in chapter 15, because the question there is really of victory over death. The last enemy, death, shall be destroyed, and in the close of the chapter the apostle speaks about the victory, “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” The resurrection of Christ brought in the victory.
RSS Then that connects it with resurrection?
FER Yes, and there must be power to rise inherent.
JSA “It was not possible that be should be holden of it”.
FER In that sense Christ is the power of God. “He must rise” is the way Scripture puts it. He must rise as truly as He “must suffer”; resurrection was inherent in Christ.
RSS So Jesus speaks in John 2, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up”.
FER “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again”.
RSS I was thinking of that scripture in Ephesians where it speaks of God having put forth His great power in the resurrection of Christ.
FER But then, Christ is God. Resurrection is inherent in Him because He is the Son of God. There was no power to hold Christ in death though He did enter into it, “he must rise”.
RSS I suppose Christ is the power of God in the end of Philippians 3, “Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself”.
FER Yes, but the point here is the overthrow of all that held power over man. That is what God has done. Christianity is an existing fact, and although it has been most fearfully corrupted, yet God first used it to overthrow all that existed.
WM Do you mean heathenism, judaism and philosophy?
FER Yes, whatever held man in bondage, superstition and the like. It was God’s purpose to bring to nought the things that are. God has chosen things of no account to bring to nought the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence.
WM And all fell before the most insignificant instruments.
FER Things despised, even things that are not. I do not think people see what a mighty power Christ has been in the world, for many things once overthrown are rearing [p. 110] their heads again in the decay of christianity. You get a kind of idolatry coming in, and superstition and many evil things.
WM I suppose Christ is pretty much preached now for the benefit of the world and that people miss the point. The apostle says, “we preach Christ crucified”.
FER Of course preaching now is in christendom pretty much.
OO'B Should not the gospel be preached outside of christendom?
FER All that is a question of individual grace given.
RSS What had you in your mind when you said, we preach the gospel in christendom?
FER I mean it is a different thing now from what it was at the beginning, you take a great deal for granted in the preaching. We do not put the first elements before people. We suppose that people to whom we preach know something of the elements of truth. For instance, you do not attempt to argue with people as to the existence of God. We would have to do that among the heathen. They have no idea of a living God.
WM If you went to heathendom you might talk a good deal about the goodness of God in sending rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, as Paul did.
FER In christendom it is taken for granted that the Bible is accepted as being the word of God, but the Bible would have no sort of authority among heathen. Preaching of necessity among the heathen must be of a different character from that in christendom.
Ques Could the gospel today be preached outside of christendom?
FER I suppose so.
Ques In which way should I go and preach the gospel outside of christendom?
FER To the limits of christendom.
Ques. Where should I go?
FER I suppose this country is professedly christian,
[p. 111] but in Africa and Asia you might go to the limits of christendom.
WM I suppose in preaching in christendom it is difficult to tell who has been the means of the conversion of anybody.
FER Quite so. From the fact of christianity having been established in the world, as we find it, we have very little idea of the mighty power which was connected with the preaching of Christ in the first instance, and how effectually the preaching overthrew all that existed. It did that, and there is no disputing it.
JSA I was thinking of the statement in Acts 4, “Now when they saw ... that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled”. There is the power of it.
FER But then the mighty power of God was with the truth, and for one simple reason that in Christ there was the light of God.
GR They said, “These that have turned the world upside down are come hither”.
FER You will find that in Ephesus the preaching of Christ came into contact with idolatry and the power of idolatry fell, for all the influences of those days depended upon the ignorance of man in regard of God. Once the light of God was brought in these influences of necessity came to nought.
JSA Christianity has lost its force by having become a system of doctrine instead of the setting forth of Christ as the revelation.
GWH In Acts 17 you find Paul preaching to the Athenians who were in that condition you spoke of just now.
FER The point there was philosophy, but philosophy fell. Where is Grecian philosophy now? Very few know anything about it. Where is idolatry now? In the decay of christianity mohammedanism came in. But on the face of things that is a mixture and corrupt. It came in and swept over Asia Minor after christianity had [p. 112] decayed.
GR It is striking in Acts 17; the apostle does not quote scripture as in Acts 13, which is almost a string of quotations.
FER Because in Acts 13 he was preaching to Jews.
GWH In Acts 17 he reasoned with them, did he not?
FER The apostle was always reasoning. I think reasoning is much more the right thought than declamation in preaching. Our preaching is often too declamatory.
GR Establishing facts.
FER And reasoning as to what is right, for christianity presents what is right, and we ought to be able to reason on what is right. An orator would affect people by mere oratory, and there you might have a good deal of declamation, but you do not want to affect people by that kind of thing when you have what is right. We find the apostle reasoning and alleging, so he reasoned with Felix. When you are declamatory it is a proof that you want to affect people and are not quite certain of the power of what you are preaching.
JSA And in the other case the conscience is to accept what is right.
WM It is not the preacher’s responsibility to affect people.
FER I think not. He is to reason with them, “Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men”. The great point in christianity is that it presents righteousness. “Thy lips speak right things”, and there is nothing else that is right.
WM Commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
EA Is that the force of the passage in Isaiah, “Come now, and let us reason together”?
FER God reasons.
GWH If you are convinced that a thing is right, have you not a right to state it as a fact?
FER But then you have to meet all sorts of peculiarities and contrarieties in the minds of men; and you [p. 113] have to take account of them, and to answer them as far as you can. “Unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews”. We have to take into account the influences under which people have been educated and trained, and meet their difficulties, and reasoning comes in there.
AQR What did the apostle mean in verse 17, “not with wisdom of words”? Does not that mean reasoning?
FER No, I think he meant there was no adoption of philosophic forms, such as existed. Christianity (and it is important to remember it) is not dogmatic. Judaism was dogmatic, because the light had not come in. The moment the light comes in, there is an end of dogmatism.
RSS In connection with what you were saying, judaism made an emphatic demand. That is what you would say is dogmatic. Whereas in christianity God presents Himself in a way that affects men morally.
FER You get the standard of all that is right. For instance, as to righteousness. People make a great deal of righteousness doctrinally, but it is what is right. That is the simplest definition I know. Well, how are you to determine what is right? Of necessity it must be determined by what God is, if you do not know what God is you have no determination of what is right. When God is revealed you have the determination of what is right, and can talk and reason on it. A great many things were tolerated in Old Testament times that were not strictly right. For instance, people told lies for an end, for they had not an absolute standard of what is right. Once God is revealed, everything is changed.
WM Would that scripture, “the times of this ignorance God winked at” refer to it?
FER That refers more to idolatry.
JP Dogmatism came in with the decay of christianity.
FER Rome is all dogmatism. They try to keep [p. 114] the Scriptures from the laity, and the poor laity are cast upon the dogmas of the church. That is not christianity; it is the corruption of it. What we have to meet now is the revival of things which were overthrown by Christ.
GWH And how are they to be met?
FER As at the beginning. You will not meet them by dogma. It is by one’s practical sense of what is right.
JSA And Christ is really the test of that.
JB Are not men losing the knowledge of God?
FER They had lost it; it has been a little revived now, but three hundred years ago what knowledge of God was there?
JP So that it is the great thing in that way to apprehend Christ.
FER Yes. I have only been speaking so far of how effectually everything was set aside by the introduction of Christ. He was the power of God to that end, but He was the wisdom of God. So in chapter 3 of this epistle you get what God established in Christ. It is never the thought of God simply to overthrow. He will do that. In the Old Testament we read, “I will overturn, overturn”, but that is not properly God’s work. The point with God is to establish, and He establishes what is of Himself, and Christ is the One in whom He does it.
JP If He overthrows that which is not according to Himself it is that He may establish that which is according to Himself.
FER He establishes that which is of Himself, and by it He overthrows that which is not of Himself.
JP You see in the third chapter what God has established.
FER Yes, the first great principle is the temple, that is what in Christ is established, and if you have the temple of God you have the oracles of God. This was foreshadowed in Israel. They had a material temple and, in a sense, the oracles of God, but now in Christ you have the true temple of God and of [p. 115] necessity the oracles.
JP The oracles accompany the temple.
FER Yes, the apostle says in chapter 3, “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
JP What is the great idea of the temple of God?
FER It is the shrine of God, where the oracles are. That is, they are really here on earth, and it was because of that that all the various powers of which I was speaking fell.
WM And therefore the light of God was here.
FER Quite so, because the Spirit of God is here; the Spirit meant the truth of God. How has the truth been maintained here? By the Spirit. Another thing is seen in the previous chapter which is extremely important, and that is, the spiritual man; apart from the spiritual man you would not get the building, but the spiritual man is not everything. The building is composed of living stones, spiritual men, but then the Spirit of God is there and the Spirit of God is accountable in that way for the maintenance of the oracles of God.
HM Would you say the church was the oracle of God?
FER No, the church is where the oracles are. The oracles are found in the Spirit of God. They come out in the temple, the church, but they may be greatly obscured in the temple.
JP We do not know things by the temple, but we know things by the Spirit.
FER Yes, but all the stones ought to be transparent, not opaque, so that the truth might shine out through the stones.
WM That is, spiritual men; such are not opaque.
FER Yes. Spiritual men are transparent; carnal men are partly opaque; natural men are entirely so.
AQR What is meant by the foolishness of the preaching?
FER It is more the foolishness of what is preached. You can understand how contemptible the preaching of the cross was in the eyes of the Greek [p. 116] philosophers.
WM I suppose the preaching of a crucified man as a Saviour must have looked like a mockery to them.
Ques What does that mean, “If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God”?
FER I suppose a man ought not to speak as it were of himself. If a man speaks he speaks what he knows to be of God.
JB-n Did the stones on the breast of the high priest have anything to do with it?
FER The stones on the breast of the high priest were representative of the twelve tribes; he bore them on his heart.
RSS In connection with transparency, what is the meaning of that passage at the end of chapter 2, “the spiritual discerns all things, and he is discerned of no one”?
FER I do not think the spiritual man is discerned of any. He discerns all things; there is nothing hidden from him. He understands all moral questions but is not discerned of any. I do not think the cleverest natural man can take in the spiritual man. The cleverest thought-reader could not read my thoughts until they have taken shape, but then something lies behind my thoughts. There is a conception behind them and a thought-reader could not read that. You do not speak until that has taken shape in your mind.
WM And the spiritual conception he is incapable of seeing.
FER There is another thing which is extremely important; even if it were really possible for a thought-reader to apprehend the exact form of some thought in my mind be would not know what is meant. He could only apprehend the mere form of the thought; be would not enter into the spirit of it.
JP After all, Scripture is true, is it not?
FER I find it more and more so. It is wise and one sees nothing which compares with it.
GR What would you say is the special value to us of these first [p. 117] three chapters?
FER It is a great stay to apprehend that the oracles of God are maintained here — the temple and the Spirit of God are here.
JSA All the failure of christians has not altered that.
FER No. The Scriptures would hardly have maintained the truth of God, though they are of the greatest value to christians, but the Spirit has maintained the truth of God.
JSA And I suppose we may go as far as to say whatever is real in christianity is of the Spirit.
FER Exactly. I was saying last night that the point for every one now is to retire within the region of the Spirit. In christianity people have got far away outside of it. The great preachers of the present day affect people; they carry the people far away beyond the region of the Spirit into that of the human mind. We get here, “let no man glory in men”. “He taketh the wise in their own craftiness”. A lot of wise people pretend to be christian preachers. People need to get away from man and his influences.
WM I suppose everything else will break down sooner or later.
FER All these things around us are the revival of what was overthrown in the first instance by Christ. There were temples when the gospel was first preached, and priesthood and superstition and state churches; all that existed, but God intended all to be overthrown simply because it was all false and exercised a pernicious influence over man. It was overthrown, but now it is all revived in a different colour. The whole entourage gives you the idea of that. It is a revival partly of judaism and heathenism.
WM Do you think God ever set up anything ecclesiastical or that at all times there was the region of the Spirit to go into?
FER It is an interesting point in connection with the church at the beginning that there was nothing outside of [p. 118] the Spirit. If a man had to do the least kind of service, to distribute money, he had to be full of the Holy Spirit.
JP It is a great point for us at the present time to apprehend Christ as the wisdom and power of God, and to see that the temple and the Spirit of God are here.
FER Exactly, and you have the oracles.
JP That is all you need; you do not need anything else.
FER The great thing is to retire from what is not of the Spirit. It is not difficult to judge what is not.
EA Do you mean to say as to the oracles of God, that the Spirit of God uses the word?
FER I think everything resides in the Spirit, “Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth”.
EA That would not be apart from Scripture.
FER No, but the Spirit of God has His own mode of teaching. Scripture gives you the form of the truth. The Spirit is the truth and He has His own mode of teaching. The truth is the Spirit just as Christ is the truth. It is a reciprocal expression.
EA I suppose no one could speak by the Spirit unless be spoke according to the word.
FER If he spoke by the Spirit he would speak according to the word. He would not contravene it. It is to the law and the testimony that the appeal is made.
AQR Which is the guide, the Spirit or Scripture?
FER Scripture is the appeal. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them”. But you get light from the Spirit. All light comes from the Spirit, from the knowledge of God. You never understand the words in divine things until you have the things. The Spirit gives you the thing, and having the thing, you understand the words. For instance, take the outset with any one; a man being born again; he does not know anything about it until he is born again. So, too, as to the reception of the Spirit, a man does not know anything about it until he has [p. 119] the Spirit. So it is all along; you understand the words and the form of things because you have the things.
AQR Is it proper to say the Spirit takes Scripture and makes it good to us?
FER I think the Spirit has His own way; the Spirit is the truth. “Ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things”. Divine teaching is a wonderful thing.
WCR When are we ready for divine teaching?
FER As we go on, we are prepared for it.
Ques Then would you say knowledge comes by the Spirit, not by the study of the Scriptures?
FER I would not care to put things in that hard and fast way. I think all right knowledge is by the knowledge of God, but then the Scriptures are so immensely important, because they put all into definite shape in the mind. You learn everything, if you learn it divinely, by the knowledge of God. I do not believe any one was ever deeply affected by anything except the knowledge of God which comes to you by the Spirit of God. We have the Spirit of God and cannot have anything greater.
EA Would you say a word on the passage you have just quoted from John, “Ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things”? What is the force of, “know all things”?
FER I think the object of the apostle was to deliver saints from dependence on man, a man intuitively knows all things by the unction.
WM So that no man can teach another the knowledge of God.
FER No one but the Spirit could do that, and that is the only true knowledge.
JP That is the only thing that affects you morally; the other does not.
FER For instance, the first great lesson the Spirit brings home to you is of the love of God. “The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us”.
AQR Is it possible for the Spirit to teach one in principle before one knows that the things are in Scripture?
FER I think so, but then you must remember this, you not only want to have the thing in that way, but in an intelligent way, so that you can use it.
WM And we have often used texts to hammer things into people’s heads which they have not really received?
FER I think if people have the things they will soon understand the texts, but it will never do to undervalue the Scriptures. All your apprehension of things has no authority; even an apostle would be subject to the Scriptures. The apostles took care to show that all that they presented was according to the Old Testament Scriptures, so the Lord Himself says, “the scripture cannot be broken”.
AQR It is a great thing to keep Scripture in its right place.
WM The Bereans received the word readily and searched the Scriptures for confirmation.
FER And right enough they were too. I would be extremely glad in regard of what one puts out, if people would go to the Scriptures to find out if things were so.
AQR Do you think there is a tendency to ignore the teaching of the Spirit and depend on the letter?
FER That is where christendom has got to partly, because it has put man in the place of the Spirit. When things got into decay and people became unspiritual, man was put in authority and displaced the Spirit. They began by appointing elders, instead of the elders being men full of the Holy Spirit, and then the elders appointed bishops, a kind of supreme elder. Look at the popish church. Who is the head? Not Christ nor the Spirit, but the pope. So, too, the Greek church; it is not Christ or the Spirit, but the patriarch. In the English church it is the king. So all the great dissenting bodies have their synods, and such like, and the Spirit is displaced; and they make everything [p. 121] of the letter and have lost the Spirit, and what is the effect? They have little understanding in divine things.
JSA As you say, they have really lost the knowledge of God to a large extent.
FER Because they have ignored the Spirit, and how can they make any advance? It is so important to retreat within the region of the Spirit; there it is you get light. The spiritual man discerns all things.
WM And the temple is here too.
FER Yes, the temple of God. People say ‘why ever do you want to separate from this and that?’ My answer is, it is no good remaining in a false place; the thing is to get out to where the Spirit is, and there you will find understanding of the oracles of God. I mean that individually you come to where the spiritual man discerns all things. Until a man has retreated he will not get much understanding. When we left system we did not understand much about the temple. We connected the Spirit very much with the individual. There was no idea of the Spirit in the company. I think when we were delivered from those things we began to get some apprehension of the temple of God and of the presence of the Spirit of God, not merely in the individual, but in the temple.
Ques What is the distinction between the temple and the house?
FER The temple is connected more with the oracles of God; the house is where people learn how to behave. In my house I expect every one to behave. You do not expect to sit down at the table with your hat on.
JB Is the temple of God connected with testimony?
FER I think the temple of God is for the maintenance of the oracles.
Ques What do you mean by the oracles?
FER What God has to say. A Corinthian would have understood the idea.
WM “What the Spirit saith unto the churches”.
FER There you get it. I do not think there has been a moment in the history of christendom when the Spirit [p. 122] did not have something to say to the churches, some particular truth suitable to the moment. If you are within the region of the Spirit you have the opened ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Surely at the present time the Spirit has something to say.
JP It would be impossible to conceive of the Spirit being here and being silent, would it not?
FER Yes. You will not find a single man in system who has any definite idea of the meaning of the addresses to the seven churches — and if he has any idea he has picked it up from brethren and then uses it as though it were his own.
JP And turns around and abuses the people he picked it up from.
JSA Just on the line you began with, that the Spirit of God has a different presentation of Christ to every church He addresses, so He may have a special truth for us at any given time.
FER I have no doubt He would bring this home to us. A thousand years ago people did not understand the addresses to the churches very much.
WM You were saying last night that Christ is always in activity and the Spirit is always speaking.
FER Until He has brought about all the will of God. It is a great thing to know, “ye are the temple of God”. The work of Christ was to build the house of God. In redemption He laid the foundations and Himself built the house. Everything was prepared for the Holy Spirit to come. All the material was ready on the day of Pentecost, and the Holy Spirit came and the house of God was there.
JP The one hundred and twenty men and women represented the blessed end and result of the Lord’s work here.
FER The house was built by Christ and then the oracles of God were there. They were not in the temple at Jerusalem or with the chief priests, but in the temple, and the preaching went out from the temple.
JP I am wonderfully impressed with how this truth [p. 123] excludes man, and how it leads people to get into touch with God.
FER That is the point before the mind of the apostle. He says at the end of chapter 3, “If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that be may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God”, that is His estimation of man.