READINGS ON 1 CORINTHIANS (2)
READINGS ON 1 CORINTHIANS (2)
FER I think that in going on we must keep the main thought before us, I mean Christ, as the wisdom of God and the power of God.
JP I think you remarked yesterday afternoon that in each epistle we have Christ presented in a certain way. The apprehending of this is really the key to the understanding of what the epistle presents.
FER That is evident enough, for every epistle was indited by the Spirit of God. So Christ must be the subject. And the Spirit of God never travels the same ground twice. Of course, the presentation in each epistle goes to make up the fulness of Christ. You have completeness, but all is given to us in detail. “We know in part”, that is, in detail, but all is put together in one by the Spirit of God in the mind of the believer.
WM Is that what is referred to in Timothy, “Have an outline of sound words”, a sort of sketch?
FER Yes. I have no doubt that the leading thought in this epistle is Christ, as the wisdom and power of God, to establish what is of God and to bring to nought what existed, because the two cannot exist together. I mean influences and powers which came in when God was not known could not exist when God revealed Himself.
JP I think you went on to say yesterday afternoon, in chapter three, we see what God has established.
FER We might go back to what was antecedent. Previously to divine dealings in Israel, you do not get anything established. Promises were given, but God did not establish anything until after there was a figure of redemption. Of course, it is typical. Israel had the oracles of God. The ark of the covenant and the Urim and the Thummim were there. There were two things, the oracles of God and also, what I may call, the medium. It is very [p. 146] like light and the sun. Light is supposed to be ether, some subtle kind of fluid set in vibration by the sun. So the oracles were there in Israel, the ark of the covenant, and the mercy-seat, and Israel was the vessel to put the light in movement so that the world might get the benefit. Israel failed and the consequence was the world never got the benefit. Israel sank down to the level of the world. The name of God was blasphemed among the gentiles through them. God never intended Israel to be shut up from the nations.
JP Does it not say in connection with the temple that it was to be “a house of prayer for all nations”?
FER Exactly. That is the place which God had assigned to Israel. We know about Israel and their failure; then we find the same thoughts taken up in Christ personally. On the one hand, there was the temple of God. His body was the temple. He says, “Destroy this temple”. The temple was there and the oracles; and the anointed Man also, to put the truth in movement, so that it might reach men. You get those thoughts presented in John 2: 18 - 22, and Luke 4: 16 - 19. They take up what had been foreshadowed in Israel. All had broken down in connection with Israel, the oracles had become of no value to them or anybody else because Israel had become opaque. There was no shining out in them,
JP Instead of that, as Paul says in Romans 3, the name of God was blasphemed among the gentiles through them.
FER And more than that, afterwards they did their utmost to prevent the gospel from going to the gentiles. It was their crowning sin. “Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway”. But God had intended that the light should shine out through them; that they should be a medium to put the light in activity for the benefit of the gentiles. Then Christ comes in as the temple, and at the same time there is the other thought which is really distinct, though the two are bound together in the same Person, that is, of the anointed Man to preach the gospel to the [p. 147] poor. The temple was there whether He preached or not, but He was the anointed Man to preach.
WM Do you mean that He was the great depositary of the mind of God? He was the Son of God. Of necessity the oracles of God were there, but He was the anointed vessel of the Spirit of God to put the whole in movement. He gives impulse, like the sun.
FER “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me”, to that end.
WM So that everything foreshadowed in Israel was established in Christ.
FER It came to pass in Christ personally, and in that sense He is the resource of God.
RSS I was wondering why it was that God was constantly presenting something first, that does not prove to be the real thing.
FER That has been the divine way, showing that nothing could be entrusted to anyone short of Christ. The creature could not be trusted.
JSA Behind all that is the blessed thought that God is determined to make Himself known to men.
FER Hence you get the temple, but not only the temple as the light, but the sun. The same two thoughts are taken up in 1 Corinthians. In chapter 3 we have the temple, in chapter 12 the anointed vessel; and by the anointed vessel the light is to be scattered.
WM Then you look at it in a way as analogous to creation, first the light, then the impulse; the temple is the light, Christ is the sun.
FER Quite so. There was the temple first and then the vessel to put the truth in movement so that it may reach men. In chapter 3 the church occupies a place corresponding to that which Christ occupies as a temple, “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God?” The oracles of God were there; and in chapter 12 we have the Christ, that is, the anointed vessel; and it is there that you get the manifestations of the Spirit, by which an impulse is given to the truth so that it becomes practically beneficial [p. 148] to man.
JP That is, that all that came to pass personally in Christ when here is continued in the saints.
FER In the church. Really in “the Christ”. The church is a continuation of Christ morally.
GR Is that the idea connected with the body?
FER Yes, it says you are Christ’s body.
RSS Would you say what is the difference between “Christ” and “the Christ”?
FER Christ is Jesus personally, but “the Christ” gives a more official idea, “As in the Adam all die, thus also in the Christ all shall be made alive”. He is looked at as Head.
RSS And in that way includes the body?
FER I would not say that is always the case.
R.S.S. At times?
FER In this chapter we get “the Christ” and it does not exactly mean Christ personally. The object in view in this chapter is the body, and the chapter does not go beyond the body. It explains, “For by one Spirit are we all baptised into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit”. You could not include Christ in that.
JP Neither could you include Him personally in what immediately precedes, “For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is the Christ”.
FER The thought does not go beyond the anointed vessel down here, the chapter is taken up with the manifestations of the Spirit. It opens with “But concerning spiritual manifestations”, and that means the truth put into activity to become beneficial to man, as Christ was anointed with the Spirit to preach the gospel to the poor.
JP It makes the truth diffusive.
WM And although Christ is personally absent, the anointed vessel is still here.
FER What came out in Christ is continued [p. 149] in the assembly.
WM And therefore in this chapter things are pursued from the side of the body.
FER I think in that we can discern that Christ is the wisdom and the power of God.
Ques Would you say the church occupies the same place in the world that Israel once did?
FER You get various thoughts foreshadowed in Israel perfectly expressed in Christ, and now coming out in the church by the Spirit; Christ has ascended up on high and communicated the Spirit in order that that which was set forth in Him should now be set forth in the church. So you get gifts in connection with that, apostles, prophets, teachers, the word of wisdom. All that refers to the diffusing of the oracles.
Ques What is the distinction between that which you have just been mentioning and the gifts in Ephesians?
FER In Ephesians the point is the formation of the body. That is different ground. Ephesians is on the ground of divine counsels. Corinthians is not exactly that, but the bringing out of that which God has been pleased to establish here in order to overthrow all that existed. It is an elementary epistle. There are certain epistles which go more on the ground of divine counsel and Ephesians is one of them.
WM I suppose an epistle like this presents the elements of christianity.
FER Yes; that is, the bearing of God in regard to man. It is most important to see the two things, and not to allow one to exclude the other. There is the attitude of God toward man, but there are counsels of God which He will establish. Some epistles go on the one line and some on the other. “The kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared”. That is not the counsel of God exactly, but in Ephesians and Colossians and some other writings, the ground is the counsels of God. The apostle says here in chapter 2, “We speak wisdom among them that are perfect”, which meant he could not speak wisdom to the Corinthians as they [p. 150] were.
WM So the epistle to the Corinthians does not present saints as being in the good of spiritual things, but rather the truth of what God is for man.
FER It is what God has established down here to deliver man from the domination of what existed.
RSS It is remarkable that he addresses them in chapter 3 as the temple of God, and then again in this chapter as the body of Christ.
FER It is very simple. It is the same in principle as John 2 and Luke 4.
RSS What I meant was that he could not speak of them as spiritual, yet he addresses them in that way.
FER He only takes up facts. Whatever might be their state, nothing could change the fact that they were the temple of God and the Spirit of God dwelt there. The same thing holds good regarding chapter 12. Whatever might be the confusion and the disorder which existed, even in their coming together, it did not alter the fact that they were “the Christ”. They had been baptised by one Spirit into one body and had been made all to drink into one Spirit. The apostle uses it to show them what was involved, the holiness of God’s temple involved the exclusion of man’s mind, because man’s mind cannot entertain the idea of the holiness of God’s temple; and so too the thought of the one body excluded any pre-eminence on the part of any man.
WM Why does the truth of the temple necessarily exclude man’s mind?
FER Because man’s mind could never understand the holiness of God. If you have to do with the Spirit of God, man’s mind can have no place. If you get a man giving the reins to the activity of his mind, that man has no sense of the Spirit, or of the holiness of God.
WM I suppose man’s mind is excluded in the expression in the Revelation, the city has no need of the sun, no natural light was required.
FER How many saints in the world are really dominated by man’s mind! When you have to do with [p. 151] God you do not want your mind in activity. On the other hand, if you recognise the unity of the body, you cannot allow pre-eminence on the part of man. What member of your body is pre-eminent? You cannot tell me nor I you. You cannot have the clergy, ministers, or the like. There was that kind of thing coming in among the Corinthians. Man’s mind was active, and they were going after leaders, “I am of Paul, and another I of Apollos”.
JP So that the truth unfolded in the epistle was what would correct and deliver them, and the same truth now will correct and deliver us.
Rem I think you said we would have no epistles if there had not been failure in the church.
FER I would not put it that way, but it was failure in the church that was the immediate occasion of our getting a great many of the epistles. It is difficult to say we would not have had them otherwise.
RSS Do you think the apostle spoke to the Corinthians in that way in order to awaken a sense in them of what was in keeping with what they were?
FER That is so, but at the same time the value to us is not their correction, but is the substantive truth the Spirit of God brings out.
JSA And we are not altogether free from some of the snares that they were in.
FER I think not. What brought me out of the Church of England was the recognition of the presence of the Spirit. I saw that the system of the Church of England was inconsistent with the presence of the Spirit. Then with that I began to see, like a great many others, that the idea of a clergy was contrary to the thought of the body of Christ, because if the body be a figure employed in regard to the church, it allows no pre-eminence in any particular member. My eye does not claim any pre-eminence; it serves my foot. On the other hand, my foot answers to my eye.
JP And there could be no independence either.
WM They are all unselfishly interested in [p. 152] one another.
FER So if one member suffer all suffer; if one be honoured all rejoice with it. If you get a man declining in spirituality all the members suffer. On the other hand, if you get a member who is increasing in devotedness and usefulness, all the members rejoice with it.
WM It is rather remarkable that what recovers saints lies in the Spirit.
FER Yes. The first point of recovery of late years was the recognition of the presence of the Spirit.
RSS What do you refer to?
FER Almost the first paper Mr. Darby wrote, was The notion of a clergyman, dispensationally the sin against the Holy Ghost. He wrote that in 1828.
JP He followed that with The nature and unity of the church of God, in 1828.
WM He did not come out to start anything new, but got into the light of what existed.
FER That is the case with all of us. I think the idea has been entertained of building up a kind of pattern church, a kind of organisation according to the original.
JP Do you not go with that?
FER If I were challenged as to what body I am connected with I would say with none, with the exception of the church of God.
EA When you quoted that passage just now about the gospel being preached to the poor, did the Lord mean to those who were poor in spirit or poor in circumstances?
FER I should think more poor in spirit. The “poor and needy”. You get the expression in the Psalms. The intervening chapters between three and twelve are detail. I would call them building up of the wall of separation. That is why I proposed going on to chapter 12. In chapter 5 there is the purging of leaven. In chapter 6 saints must not go to law before the unbelievers; in chapter 7 if believers are married they should be married in the Lord, you must not have the confusion of christians and heathen; in chapters 8 to 10 is the fellowship of the death of [p. 153] Christ to the exclusion of every other fellowship. It is all building up the wall of separation. In chapters 11 to 14 we see the assembly in function, and in that connection all the manifestations of the Spirit.
JP You mean by the assembly in function, the assembly actually convened.
FER Yes, and what is proper to the assembly when come together. Chapters 5, 6 and 7 are separate. Chapters 8 to 10 go together and 11 to 14 are all one section. The temple of God was apart from what was in the world.
WM As regards gifts, all exist in the assembly.
FER Yes, but they were not intended to give prominence to any person. An apostle was not pre-eminent in the assembly, nor a teacher.
GR He was simply a member.
FER A part of the body.
JSA He might be able to do special service, but had no pre-eminence as to place.
FER He had to fulfil his function, that was all.
GWH Was there to be a continuance in the gifts you mentioned?
FER You get in the chapter the expression, “dividing to every man severally as he will”. The manifestations of the Spirit are the word of wisdom and the word of knowledge, and I suppose we may have these still.
JSA I think you made an interesting remark in France, that all gifts lie in the Spirit and the Spirit therefore can distribute them now.
FER I think so. If the Spirit of God saw fit to distribute gifts He could do it.
WM That is, Christ is not now actively engaged in giving gifts.
FER No! He has given them. You can get a gift by desiring it. Mr. Darby used to say that if there were more devotedness there would be more gift. We are to covet earnestly the best gifts.
WM That is what you meant when you said once that the gifts were subject [p. 154] to desire.
FER Well, they are; that is what comes out in chapter 14 at the beginning.
WM So that there is no telling what God would make a man.
FER I have seen instances of it, when people have got outside the established order in christendom. People come out in service that you never would have expected. I take myself as an instance. I would not have dreamed of having any kind of place in service among men. You get the most unlikely people coming out in that way, if once they recognise the Spirit and the unity of the body; if they do recognise this it involves an obligation to depart from what is contrary to it. It is a sad thing where people begin to recognise the truth and yet determine to go on still with things inconsistent with it; it is playing with the truth.
WM You are to be on the right side of the wall of separation.
OO'B Would you give us a little word in connection with what you were speaking of, the oracles and the assembly, and the assembly in function, in connection with what we find there. Is the apostle looking around at the ruined condition of things on every side?
FER But the Spirit of God and the assembly are still here. The point for us is to seek to walk in the truth of it. I am not disposed to go on with what is inconsistent with the truth. One would seek to walk in the practice of the truth, and it is in that way we get a little opportunity of reaching other people. That has been the case with us to a large extent. There was not much in Chicago four years ago, and now there has been a certain impulse which has produced some effect.
GWH Would you say that the way to walk individually is by following righteousness, faith, charity, peace with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart?
FER I think so.
WM That is, the individual does that, not the company.
FER I recognise no company but the whole [p. 155] body of Christ.
OO'B Who are the “them”?
FER Two or three like you.
OO'B But that is a company.
FER You cannot call it a company, two or three people calling at your house could hardly be called a company.
WM And the church itself is the company.
FER That is the only company I know of. I decline to recognise any other.
GWH You refuse the word “company”.
FER I do not care very much for the expression. I dislike brethrenism.
OO'B What do you mean by that?
FER Building up a kind of ecclesiastical system on the pattern of the church.
OO'B Trying to make your own fellowship.
FER Anything you will; it works in many ways. A letter of commendation is often only a passport to break bread. Do you think Scripture meant that? People bring a letter of commendation, but do not trouble to hunt up any of the saints during the week.
OO'B Would you receive them without a letter?
FER I would not, but a letter of commendation is commending one to the fellowship of the saints, not simply a passport to break bread. When the apostle gave a letter to Phoebe it was commending her to the care of the saints. If I carried a letter I would try and find some brother in the place, and not simply use it on the Lord’s day morning. It is a bit of formality.
OO'B But you are well known. Mr. Darby once went into a meeting and was refused and he commended the gathering.
FER So would I. I am only speaking of the misuse of letters of commendation.
JSA And people often use them just as a means to satisfy their conscience on the Lord’s day morning in a strange place and never use them any other day.
FER I think in going to a strange place one [p. 156] might spend some little time in finding some brother in the place.
GR In Timothy we read, “he sought me out very diligently and found me”.
FER We want to get out of ecclesiasticism into realities, into following righteousness, charity and peace with them that call upon the Lord out of a pure heart. But in doing that, let us avoid attempting to set up a kind of organisation or system. I do not think that is according to God. I want to be as distinct as possible from all that is in christendom.
JB Would that hinder the activity of the Holy Spirit?
FER That is exactly what it would do, the Holy Spirit will not sanction anything that does not recognise the existence of the whole body of Christ.
RSS I suppose organisation has really excluded the Spirit?
FER Undoubtedly.
RSS Just referring again to what you said about persons, of course we should be careful that we do not exactly follow man, but that we have discernment.
FER It is not following men; you follow the spiritual.
RSS You have the judgment and discernment that these men are walking according to God and you walk with them.
FER And while we seek to walk together we do not keep our elbows out and hold one another at a distance; but at the same time we want to be careful to maintain individuality. In the dark days of the churches it is, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches”.
Rem We speak of our fellowship.
FER Christian fellowship is the fellowship of the whole church of God. We have no peculiar fellowship. A great many people may not be in the apprehension of that fellowship, but that does not affect the character of the fellowship.
Rem Then at the Lord’s day morning meeting we should in our thoughts take in the whole church of God.
FER I think so. “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body”. That is the whole circle of saints in any given place. You must have that in mind.
WM So this epistle begins with, “The church of God which is at Corinth, ... with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord”.
JSA And in putting a person away, you put him away because he is not fit for any christian fellowship.
FER Yes, he is not worthy for any christian to walk with.
WM He must be a wicked person.
FER The man put away at Corinth was not fit for any christian company.
WM If that were apprehended, putting away would be a more serious matter with us.
FER Think what a serious thing it is; take the case of a man put away, and his wife and family still in fellowship, and they see that man branded as a wicked person, put outside, it is a most fearful punishment. I have no doubt in certain cases it is right. If a man has no conscience he will go to some of the systems, but if he has a conscience about the truth he has to sit outside and his family see him there branded as a wicked person. It is almost the greatest punishment you could inflict upon a man.
WM And in the case of the man at Corinth it almost killed him.
FER But God wrought repentance. You must put away leaven, else it would soon corrupt the entire mass.
GWH You were speaking of when we gather to break bread, that our thought should take in all the christians in the city. Why is it then that we do not break bread with [p. 158] them all? Is it because they are not calling upon the Lord out of a pure heart?
FER How could you go back to what you came out from? You cannot build again the things you destroyed.
GWH What sort of a barrier can you raise against any one coming to break bread?
FER I cannot go to him, but be can come to me.
WM Christian fellowship is open to him as to you.
FER Yes, but he has no apprehension of it; that is the condition of things today.
JSA It is quite possible that a good many among us have no idea of fellowship. It may be a kind of sacramental thing to them.
FER I think it is a great thing to keep the two great points of the epistle in view. There is one more thought we may have an opportunity of looking at, but the great thought is of the holy temple, and of the one body, the Christ; and to see the place God intended that to have in the world. God has planted His oracles here in the Spirit, and has appointed the body, so that there may be the manifestations of the Spirit that the light and truth might be put into activity. If a person were to go into the assembly, an ignorant person, he was judged of all and had to own that God was among them.