READINGS ON THE GOSPEL OF JOHN (3)
[p. 54] READINGS ON THE GOSPEL OF JOHN (3)
RSS I think you said yesterday that John gives us a course of subjects, that in the first two chapters we have the establishment of the promises to Israel, and then in the third light coming in to dispel darkness, and in the fourth satisfaction coming in in contrast to thirst. What about these chapters?
FER The third is the testimony of God’s love, and the fourth the gift of Christ, the living water, the well of water in the believer that springs up. In chapters 5, 6 and 7, you get the light in which Christ is presented to and known by the believer. The believer is not the point in chapters five to seven; it is rather Christ and the way in which He is apprehended. For instance, in the fifth chapter Christ is presented to us as the Son of God in life-giving power. Every one of us knows Him individually. Then in the sixth chapter He is presented as Son of man, the food of the believer. We all know Him in that way because the principle is, “He that eateth me, even he shall live by me”, the living bread come down from heaven. It is an incarnate Christ, the food of the believer’s soul. In the seventh chapter is a further point, Jesus glorified and the Spirit given; so that the chapters offer a complete presentation of Christ to us, as He is known by the believer, and in that sense there is the witness down here of Christ. Every one of us is a witness to Christ.
GWH You were saying that in the third chapter He is presented as light to a world in darkness, and in the fourth as satisfaction to a thirsty world, and then in the sixth I suppose you would have Him as food for a hungry world.
FER That is true, but there is a sequence in the chapters; for if you had not the fourth you could not have [p. 55] the fifth, sixth and seventh, and apart from the third, you could not have the fourth. The first great principle is, God must be known in His mind toward man before there can be any communication of living water to us. Then it is by the Spirit that Christ is known in the light in which He is presented in the fifth, sixth and seventh chapters, because a great deal, practically, depends on the knowledge of Christ. The testimony of God’s love meets the darkness of the world and the gift of living water meets the thirst of man, but when the thirst is met there is another point, in what light is Christ known, that is what these chapters answer.
JT Is the first thing in that connection that we hear His voice?
FER I think it is His work, “My Father worketh hitherto, and I work”. It is the Son of God in life-giving power; we are a proof of His work, and we know the Son of God in the character of His work; that comes out in the case of the paralytic. You get an illustration of the power there, acting in the domain of death and raising man up in life. The Son quickens whom He will, “The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself”.
JSA And that goes on to actual resurrection.
FER Exactly, because you do not get quickening fully until it is applied to the body.
WM And thus, in that, there is witness to the power of Christ.
FER In the latter part of the chapter Christ appeals to the witnesses, and says the works that I do bear witness of Me.
GR What is the difference between the quickening in chapter 5 and that in the beginning of chapter 3?
FER The beginning of chapter 3 is not quickening, it is opening a man’s eyes. Quickening is making a man to live. New birth does not make to live in that sense.
WM [p. 56] I suppose the one is the beginning and the other is the end of God’s work.
FER Yes, quickening in Scripture is presented in connection with the coming of the Lord, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive”. “He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you”.
WM And therefore a person is not quickened until he hears the voice of the Son of God.
FER The proof that he is quickened is that he hears the word of Christ, and believes on the One that sent Him.
GR In that way he has passed out of death unto life.
JT The testimony in chapter 5 is the testimony of life in the scene of death.
FER But it is the testimony of the Son of God, the chapter differs from the two preceding chapters in that it opens with a sign and the sign signifies something; the sign was there in the miracle; what was seen signified what Christ is. The Son of God was there in life-giving power.
JT You say the testimony was more to Him that He had life in Himself.
RSS What is the difference between a sign and a miracle?
FER A miracle does not necessarily go beyond an act of power, but a sign has some peculiar significance. It is a witness of something. So when Christ was born the angel said, “this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger”. The babe was there, and the babe signified something.
JT The raising of the paralytic was a figure of the raising up of Israel.
FER And no doubt the chapter goes beyond that, because it says, “as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will”. You can understand that you can place no sort of limitation on the Son of God, “the Son of God with [p. 57] power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead”. That is what you get in this chapter.
JSA It is the Person known as such by His works.
FER That is the light in which Christ is known to us. It is a great thing to know Him in that light, for there is no limit to His power. It will go on to the quickening of the body and the raising up of Israel, even to the raising up of all the dead. He deals with the entire domain of death, even to the resurrection of the wicked.
JT It is a great thing to have Christ before you in that way.
RSS I suppose the great thing about Abraham was that he knew the God of resurrection.
Ques Are all the miracles in John signs?
FER Yes. I think the number of miracles in John is limited to seven.
RSS When it says, “This beginning of miracles”, is that the beginning of signs?
FER He manifested forth His glory. It was a sign as to who was there. The raising up of the nobleman’s son is another sign, and in these two chapters, the raising up of the paralytic and the feeding of the multitude are two more.
WM It shows that nothing ecclesiastical can be a witness to Christ.
FER It is His work only.
JSA I think it is clear from the epistle that it is the knowledge of Christ in this character that gives us power over the world. “Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?”
FER The real truth is that He has power to bring about a world out of death. John 5 corresponds to Ephesians in a way. It is in a scene of death that the Son of God works according to the Father. The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father doing. Therefore everything really is the work of God.
WM I suppose people are often hindered from seeing [p. 58] the significance of these chapters by looking at them as meeting their own need.
FER I do not think that is the point; it is well to keep before us that they present to us the light in which Christ is known to the believer.
GWH Would you say the Son of God works in a world of death to bring out souls into a world of life?
FER I think it is to form a scene of life. He is the beginning of it, the Firstborn from the dead. He works in the scene of death to bring to pass a universe of life. It is in that way that He creates another universe. He might have done that readily, but the point is that He creates a world out of the wreck and ruin of this world.
JSA And that process is going on now in souls, and the moment will come that bodies will be introduced into it and then it will be displayed.
FER In the coming of the Lord you get the quickening of everything.
WM In the meantime the darkness is passing and the true light already shines.
FER It is that which is true in Christ and the believer.
JT In bringing to pass the blessing of Abraham the Lord said to him “in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed”. This will bring that to pass. I was thinking of Christ acting in accord with the Father, and the Father’s commandment is life eternal.
WM What is the meaning of that expression, “His commandment is life eternal”.
FER It is, I judge, an allusion to Psalm 133, “there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life for evermore”. I think the Lord alludes to that in saying, “I know that his commandment is life eternal”.
RSS It is a remarkable thing that a man was displaced from the garden of Eden in order that he might not partake of the tree of life, and now God has brought in an order of things in which be can readily partake of it.
JT He said in this chapter, “Search the scriptures;
[p. 59] for in them ye think ye have eternal life” and then He adds, “and they are they which testify of me”. That would be that they pointed on to Him as the One who would bring it in.
GWH Would you say God has been working all along in view of a world of life and blessing?
FER I think you get proof of that in Hebrews 11.
JT What is the idea of Zion being the centre of blessing where it is commanded?
FER Because Zion is God’s great testimony. You see in Luke 24 it behoved that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations beginning at Jerusalem. Zion is His testimony. The gospel began at Jerusalem. Zion is witness of the eternal faithfulness of God. The ark was carried by David to mount Zion. Then they sang “His mercy endureth forever”. To my mind it sets forth a risen Christ. Everything has been lost by man in the death of Christ, but in the resurrection of Christ everything is given back because resurrection comes in in the power of redemption. I do not mean to say that there is not a literal mount Zion, but the true mount Zion is Christ risen.
WM And being on the ground of resurrection it means sovereign mercy for all.
FER Resurrection comes in on the ground that God had been glorified and redemption accomplished.
GR Would you say the gospel of John supposes Christ risen? The truth is all connected with a risen Christ.
FER Yes, because we have the thought of the death of Christ from the outset. In the third chapter we read, “as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up”.
GWH You referred a moment ago to Hebrews 11. What do you mean by that?
FER It only shows this, that all along God was gathering out in divine dealings a company for heaven. All saints held to the promises and embraced them, but [p. 60] they could not be made perfect without us. It proves that God was gathering a company for heaven.
WM He had the world to come always in view.
FER And I have no doubt whatever faith had always the world to come in view. Enoch, Noah, and Abel had that dimly in view. It is not difficult to prove it.
GWH In the world to come both creation and creature will enjoy the blessing of life.
FER It is then that every promise of God will be made good, “In thee shall all families of the earth be blessed”. What has come to pass now in principle will come to pass in a literal way.
JT The present application would be in Galatians.
FER So too in this chapter, Christ has not yet come out in the character of this chapter in manifest quickening power, but He is known to us in that light; at the present time the great point is knowledge. All our blessing lies in the region of knowledge.
JSA And that knowledge is by the Spirit.
WM It is eternal life to know Him.
FER You cannot refer to any christian blessing but what lies in the sphere of knowledge. It will not always be so. Knowledge will not form such an element in the world to come, when things become manifest, Israel for instance will be manifestly blessed in Him.
WLP Is knowledge faith?
FER It is really.
JT The Lord did not affect things publicly at all. He left things as He found them pretty much.
FER And christianity has not done it.
JT When He went into heaven He was concealed and all depended after that on what came out of heaven.
FER You do not get the conditions of the world very much changed in christianity. Slaves were left where they were. Christianity did not even touch the government of the world. It left things where they were; but the Spirit brought in knowledge, and we can well understand that the first element of knowledge is the Son of God in [p. 61] life-giving power. Of course it would be a poor thing if all was not to be made manifest some day.
WM Do you think that principle is referred to in the epistle of John where it says, “ye know all things”?
FER There it is connected with the unction, “ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him”. That is the character of christian blessing. As to eternal life the scripture says, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent”. So with Paul, the thought with him was, “That I may know him”.
RSS You said on one occasion the last thing we would care to give up is our knowledge of God.
FER If we gave it up we would give up everything.
WLP Some look upon knowledge as the knowledge of doctrine.
FER I do not think knowledge of doctrine is much good. I do not think anybody is very much affected by doctrine. We hold doctrine and are very particular about it, but what a man is affected by is the knowledge of God.
WM And no man can teach that to another.
FER The truth is that we have been wakened up out of a world of death by the Son of God, to bring us into a world according to Himself.
JSA And such transformation as there is is not in the outward circumstances but in the renewing of a man’s mind.
JT It does not propose to alter our circumstances at all.
FER No, the outward man remains and perishes, but the inward man is renewed day by day. And there is another thing connected with that, and that is the renewing goes on while we look not at the things that are seen, but at the things that are unseen and eternal.
JT I have often thought of the Psalm 23 in that connection. The psalmist is perfectly secure, happy and [p. 62] contented, although his outward circumstances are not at all changed. The enemy was there and the wilderness was there and the valley of the shadow of death, but he was content and secure and happy.
FER The truth is that we are all in the wilderness, and the wilderness is really, on one hand, the scene where you meet the witness of death, because in the wilderness there is no burial, but there is death. Men and creatures perish; that is where we are; but the point is that while we are in the wilderness the Son of God is known to us, and in that knowledge we can enter into the land of promise. How do we enter into the land of promise? Israel entered into it literally by going through Jordan. I do not think there is any doubt that we enter into it in the knowledge of the Son of God in life-giving power. That is in capability to carry out all the will of God. We pass through Jordan, we are in the fellowship of the death of Christ, and in the knowledge of the Son of God we enter the land of promise.
WM And do you think the sixth chapter connects you with that, that God brings you into a region of satisfaction?
FER I think the point in the sixth chapter is the Son of man. Christ is known in another light; as the sustenance of the soul. You get appropriation there, Christ is appropriated as the sustenance of the soul.
WM And that, too, is anticipative of the world to come.
FER I think so, because He says, “and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world”. Meanwhile He is appropriated as living bread, “my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh” (it is characteristic) “down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world”. You get Christ in the chapter as Prophet, Priest and King. He is incarnate; the living bread from heaven. He has become incarnate to get close to man. He gives His flesh for the life of the world. By grace He comes into our condition, accomplishes redemption, and then ascends [p. 63] up where He was before, that is, as Priest. In the chapter He goes up into a mountain alone. It is in that way that Christ is presented as sustenance to the soul. He expresses to us the grace of heaven, and all brought within the reach of our appropriation. All that heaven could devise.
GR In connection with that, where would “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood” come in?
FER That is a great part of it. The effect of that is that you get deliverance.
JT The disciples had a very meagre idea of what was there, because when the Lord proposes to feed the multitude they say, “There is a lad here, which hath five barley loaves, and two small fishes: but what are they among so many?” They had no conception of what was there in Christ.
FER But they had the five loaves and two fishes. They had something, though it was small, and it is extremely interesting that the Lord takes up what they had.
Rem It was sufficient for them up to that time.
JT He made it go a long way.
FER People had a certain something until Christ came; five loaves and two fishes; they had a certain knowledge of God, but when Christ came it was multiplied infinitely. There was enough and to spare.
WM A sort of expansion of the Old Testament.
JA Enough grace presently to bring in every tribe of Israel.
FER It is a wonderful thing, that all the grace that heaven could devise is brought within the reach of man’s appropriation. That is the bread, the sustenance of man’s soul. Some one was alluding to the tree of life at the beginning, when man was created he had the tree of life. I take it the teaching is, that even then man was in a sense dependent. Man was not a god. God does not want a tree of life. Hereafter in the paradise of God there is a tree of life. It shows that life in the creature is ever dependent. I am sure that people need their constitutions built up [p. 64] spiritually. And to get the constitution built up you must have good food.
JT And there is plenty of good food.
WM There is bread and water.
FER “He that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst”. John does not in the gospel give you the conditions of life. You get that in. the epistle. The gospel is taken up with the kind of person who lives, and the way in which the constitution is built up. A child newly born is born into the conditions of life; that is rule, atmosphere and light; but you do all you can to build up the child’s constitution by food. Now that is what you get here in these chapters. You are alive in the fifth chapter and in the sixth chapter your spiritual constitution is built up by suitable food. The food is there for your appropriation.
WM Would you say the seventh chapter gives you the heavenly influences that flow from the saints having a good constitution?
FER The seventh chapter gives you the provision for Christ for the present moment, He is glorified above. You have the Son of God in life-giving power, and the Son of man a sustenance to the soul, and Jesus glorified and the gift of the Spirit. That is the light in which Christ is known to us at the present time and we are witnesses to Him. If anybody were to ask how we live (you cannot live without food), the answer I would give is, I live by Christ. “He that eateth me, even be shall live by me”.
JT You do not live by your business nor family nor any comforts here.
FER No.
JT It makes a person wonderfully independent of what is here.
GWH I suppose that just as Joseph’s brethren came to him for corn, so we have to come to Christ.
FER Yes, but they came from Canaan to Egypt; we have not to do that. The bread is come to us. The hungry multitude had not to seek Christ. He was there. So in that [p. 65] way Christ has placed Himself within the reach of our appropriation. He has become a Man to bring Himself near to us; He has entered into death so that we might appropriate His death; and He has ascended up on high in order that He might serve us as Priest.
JSA And the soul who apprehends and dwells upon Christ as set out in those conditions is built up.
RSS Would exercise come in in connection with the discernment of good and evil.
FER I think so. You want to be fed with milk in the first instance, and solid food in due time.
WM It was said of Christ prophetically, “Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good”.
JT The bread of God is brought within our reach here, but it is not connected with the present system. We have to leave that in a sense.
FER You get the death of Christ for that, “He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him”.
JT I was alluding to Jacob leaving Canaan. If he stayed there he would have died like anyone else.
FER The Lord has provided an outlet for us. We appropriate Christ’s death in order to get deliverance from the world. The apostle says, “I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me”. The people wanted to make Christ a king. They acknowledged He was a prophet, but He would not be made a king. He goes into the mountain alone. We have not the King, but the Prophet and the Priest. He has become Man to be to us the great Prophet and He has gone up on high to be the Priest. Moses said, “The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me”. He became Man to that end. We get the same thought in the epistle to the Hebrews, God has spoken to us in these last days by His Son. He has died in order to accomplish righteousness, and has gone up on high as the great Priest.
RSS [p. 66] In chapter 5 we have the apprehension of Christ as Son of God, and in the sixth appropriation.
FER There is no appropriation in chapter 5. We do not appropriate the Son of God. In chapter 5 He has ability to deal with the entire domain of death. It is a blessed thing to carry on the thought until He quickens all things.
WLP That shows how necessary it is to know Him in all these characters.
FER If you put good food before a child the child naturally appropriates it and grows, and is formed by it. We are very careful with our children to provide proper food so that the constitution may be built up, and that is what has been provided for us in Christ. Suitable food has been placed within our appropriation that we may eat it and live by it.
JK You do not think that doctrine is food?
FER No, I think that gives you intelligence, but nothing is food save the living bread from heaven. I think an incarnate Christ crucified and ascended, is food.
JT What is the use of doctrine?
FER In a general way doctrine is to show you what you have, so that the thing may be put into definite shape in your mind, but that is not food. I attend to doctrine, because I want to have divine things in their proper shape, but food is dependent on the appropriation of Christ as brought within your reach.
RSS Is it through affection we appropriate Christ?
FER I believe it is by the Spirit.
RSS Does affection come in?
FER I think it promotes affection.
JT Would you say you appropriate what you need?
FER I appropriate food suitable. How thankful I am that Christ became a Man; that He died; that He is risen again, and gone up on high to intercede for me. Everybody ought to say so, and [p. 67] feel it.
RSS Is affection a proof that you have appropriated Christ? Mary Magdalene has been used as a figure of one who appropriated Christ.
FER I think so; and Mary of Bethany. She appropriated, and affection followed it.
RSS She said they have taken away my Lord. She looked upon Him as her own, and we ought to look upon Him in the same way.
FER Yes, because everything He did was on our account.
GWH What part does exercise play in this? Does it correspond to digestion?
FER I think it is indicated by the condition of the people at the beginning of the chapter. It was a hungry multitude; they felt they were in the wilderness; no bread, and a land of drought.
GWH That led them to appropriate what was provided for them?
FER The grace of Christ provided food and they appropriated the food that grace provided. We are very unwise if we do not appropriate. People nowadays try to live by light reading, religious stories, and some try to live by hymn singing. Hymns may be a snare in the present day. The great point is to live by Christ.
JT To sit down, as it were, quietly and contemplate the Lord?
FER Meditate and assimilate and digest. It is really food that Christ has become on our account, digested into the life of our being. That is what food is, I take it. Take as much food as you will, it is only what you digest that nourishes you. So in divine things, it is not merely reading an immense amount of Scripture, it is what you digest that furnishes nourishment.
WM I suppose the use of ministry is to direct people’s attention to all that is for them, but it can effect nothing in them.
JT It can locate the food for them?
GWH What is really effected is [p. 68] by the Spirit.
FER All; you cannot get anything except by the Spirit.
WM I suppose, however, saints could hardly get along without ministry?
FER I have been struck with regard to that by 1 Corinthians. There are two points: you have the temple of God and the Christ. I do not know whether you know that in natural things the general idea is that light is ether, that is, an exceedingly intangible kind of fluid; and the ether is set in vibration by the sun. I think that is what I see in Corinthians. The temple is where the oracles of God are, they are the ether. Then the body of Christ (where the gifts are) comes in; and thus the ether is set in motion. So you get the light and the gifts, and the light set in motion, so that it reaches people. Hence, gifts and ministry are important, as giving an impulse to the light.
TH Is teaching food, as the Lord said to Peter, “Feed my sheep”?
FER There it is more looking after them.
TH But it comes from Christ by another to me.
FER Yes, it would.
GR Could you give us a word on chapter 7?
FER I think chapter 7 completes all. It shows the position Christ has taken for the moment. Christ is risen and the Spirit is given, and out of the belly of the believer flow rivers of living water. You have not the feast of tabernacles yet, but out of the belly of the believer the living waters flow. What comes out in chapter 7 depends on chapters 5 and 6. If people do not know something about chapters 5 and 6, they will not understand much about chapter 7. We have come to the true feast of tabernacles, Jesus glorified.
WM It helps us when we see that the point of the chapter is what Christ is Himself, and not so much what He is for the saints.
FER It is the apprehension of what Christ is Himself.