THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST (3)
[p. 46] THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST (3)
John 3:14; John 8:28; John 12:32; John 19:1-6; John 19:25; John 21:18,19
JT In order that we may have a complete outline of the teaching of Christ’s sufferings as seen in John’s gospel, it is necessary to have these scriptures and similar ones before us. The allusions to the cross are more numerous in John than in any of the synoptic gospels. The obvious teaching of these three scriptures, which speak of our Lord being lifted up, is to call attention to the ignominious character of His sufferings as presented in John. It was the enemy’s aim that this great Person coming in on God’s behalf should be humbled. So with regard to His followers, they are seen representatively as standing by the cross of Jesus; this is peculiar to John’s presentation of this subject. Then, as if to carry the thought to the end of this gospel, the Lord signified to Peter “by what death he should glorify God;” a death which would glorify God and correspond with Christ’s death.
JS That is, after God was glorified in the cross of Jesus.
AFM When you speak of the Lord being lifted up, as seen in these three scriptures, is it to show the intent by men to humiliate Him?
JT Yes; Paul used the words, “a spectacle to the world”, (1 Corinthians 4:9). The enemy designed to humble the Lord, hence, as already said, the cross is more frequently alluded to in John’s gospel than elsewhere.
WGT In Philippians, He is viewed as having humbled Himself. That would also be in keeping with John.
JT That, of course, was His own act; but in this gospel, the enemy’s design is [p. 47] in mind.
AFM Do you think that in the Lord saying to the Father, “I have glorified thee on the earth”, (John 17:4), there was another reason for His being lifted up besides being humiliated by men?
JT Quite; He was morally fit to be lifted up as meeting God’s claims; so that the believer should have everlasting life.
ANW Say a word about the soul trouble of Jesus in John, which, in a way, seems to answer to Gethsemane. “Now is my soul troubled”. Will you just put that in its setting with regard to the other gospels?
JT Well, it is Gethsemane, as you say, anticipatively. But that section of this gospel brings out, not what is forced upon Him through conflict, but the depths of feeling of which He was capable. Chapters 11 and 12 bring out that depth of feeling — not so much the human side, although, of course, it was in manhood; but depth of feeling in a divine Person in these circumstances. He is answered from heaven, which you do not get in Gethsemane.
AFM In chapter 12 He says, “Father, glorify thy name”, (verse 28) and then came this public answer.
JT That is right; it is heaven owning Him, I think, as a divine Person — “I both have glorified and will glorify it again”.
CAM Putting chapters 11 and 12 in a section by themselves is very interesting.
JT Yes; they comprise a section. First, there is the capability of His feeling as regards the loved family as seen at the grave of Bethany; it says: “And Jesus lifted up his eyes on high and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me; but I knew that thou always hearest me”, (chapter 11:41). That is one divine Person speaking to another; and then there is the answer from heaven in chapter 12 of which we spoke. But there is nothing of that in Gethsemane; the answer to Gethsemane is His [p. 48] resurrection. There is no outward answer, save the angel’s attention, until resurrection.
AFM That is very striking because the Lord went through all that period — the night and the next day until three in the afternoon — and there was no outward answer. It is very solemn, indeed.
CAM I want to ask you about the “lifting up”. Will you say something as to the significance of that expression?
JT Like many other things, it is peculiar to John. Firstly, in chapter 3:14, it is, that He must be lifted up, without saying who does it; then, secondly, “When ye shall have lifted up the Son of man”; that puts the onus on the Jews; and thirdly, “if I be lifted up”, this calls attention to the Person who is to be lifted up, without saying who does it. I suppose it is because He had glorified God on the earth. He is lifted up between heaven and earth, a spectacle for both; but then, with what great results! God overcame the most ignominious treatment of His beloved Son; that life eternal might be the portion of the believer, that the Son of man should be known to be a divine Person after being lifted up, and that He should be the gathering Centre for all in spite of such an ignominious death. “But this he said signifying by what death he was about to die” (chapter 12:33), in this instance, His personal attractiveness comes before us.
CAM The immensity of the accruing glory seems to be set against the ignominy.
JT Quite so; it is a complete triumph over the malice of man and Satan.
JS And while He is presented from the divine side, in this gospel, it is as Son of man, on our side, that He is lifted up. What is the significance of that?
JT What is in view is the universal bearing of the act. It would not be limited to the Jews, but [p. 49] as lifted up He would be the Centre for all: “I will draw all to me”, (chapter 12:33).
AP Does the “must” in John 3 refer to what God sees is necessary?
JT Yes; in order to carry out His thoughts; that is, the people had come very near to Canaan, but they proved themselves unfit to go in, and thus the serpent had to be lifted up: “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of man be lifted up”. The state of man had been exposed and was such that it prevented him from entering into the purpose of God. The “must” was a moral necessity if eternal life is to be available to men.
AFM Life is clearly in another Man; not in man after the flesh, therefore, the Son of man must be lifted up.
CN Would you connect the lifting up on the cross with the ignominy that was represented in the serpent?
JT That is the allusion: “as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of man be lifted up”. The state of man comes to light in that way. They spake against God and against Moses. You can hardly conceive of any more terrible state than that, speaking against God and against Moses; that is, against God and against Christ. How could they come into Canaan? If heaven were filled with such men it would cease to be heaven! Hence they cannot go in, and the Son of man must be lifted up to bring that vile state to an end. “God, having sent his own Son, in likeness of flesh of sin, and for sin, has condemned sin in the flesh”, (Romans 8:3).
JS The sin of man must be dealt with if men are to be blessed, and it could only be dealt with in Christ’s death.
JT Yes; in that ignominious way. “The cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom the world is [p. 50] crucified to me, and I to the world”, (Galatians 6:14). It is Paul accepting that the crucifixion is his due — not only death, but crucifixion, the most horrible and ignominious death possible. It expressed man’s hatred of God and Christ, but God conveyed in it His judgment of man. It is due to us on account of the terrible condition that was manifest when “the people spoke against God and against Moses”, (Numbers 21:5).
JS So that the public shame of the cross is ours.
JT That is the idea, and faith accepts it, as you see in Paul. He says, “I am crucified with Christ”, (Galatians 2:20). It is due to you and to me. The more we get on in the truth, the more we accept the ignominy of it. It was deserved — not only death, but that kind of death.
AFM This expression in verse 14 would go beyond the general teaching of John’s gospel. The serpent Moses made and lifted up was of brass, typifying Christ bearing the judgment of God.
WGT Verse 13 would suggest that only the Lord could be in heaven by personal right, and verse 14 would show that we cannot enter, save through His death.
JT If you connect this scripture with what the Lord alludes to in the Old Testament, you will see how morally impossible it was that man as in the flesh could have life eternal; that is, go into Canaan. “The Son of man who is in heaven” would have to remain there alone unless He came down and submitted to all this; so the ignominy of the cross attaches to us, as speaking against God and against Moses.
JS “Flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom”, (1 Corinthians 15:50).
AR So it is not only sin in itself that is dealt with, but also the man that sinned.
JT Yes; our old man is crucified with Christ,
([p. 51] Romans 6:6). If we are to be in the land of Canaan we must be thus dealt with and accept the crucifixion as our due. That is how terribly bad we are, and very few of us admit it. The five kings taken at Makkedah, as representing this solemn side of the truth, were hanged on five trees; (Joshua 10).
Rem Man in nature must be entirely removed.
JT In sinful nature; man’s utter incorrigibleness is proved beyond doubt in that after all the grace shown to Israel, they spoke against God and against Christ — “He that hates me hates also my Father”, the Lord says; (John 15:23).
AFM “Our soul loathes this light bread” (Numbers 21:5), would further prove what has been said.
JT Quite so; thus He must be lifted up, vicariously. It refers to our state. He must be lifted up, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
FHL Do you link the thought of the curse with this?
JT Yes; He became “a curse for us (for it is written, Cursed is every one hanged upon a tree)”, (Galatians 3:13). That is the principle. The Canaanitish kings were hanged on trees, as already remarked; it says, “Cursed be Canaan”, (Genesis 9:25). The curse was on Canaan, not on Ham; that is, that land should be thus cleared of that kind of man. It applies to man as such. Hence while man in hatred crucified Christ, God in this act expressed His judgment of man; so that in a sense we are crucified. Paul says, “I am crucified with Christ, and no longer live, I, but Christ lives in me”, (Galatians 2:20).
Ques He accepted that his own state had been dealt with?
JT Yes; so that Christ is, in personal right, the only One fit for Canaan. We come in through Him, His death having met God’s judgment of our sins and our state.
APT “For I did not judge it well to know anything among you save Jesus Christ, and him crucified”, (1 Corinthians 2:2).
JT That exactly states the truth in this respect; 1 Corinthians is based pretty much on that statement.
ABP Does this connect with Luke where the thief says, “we receive the just recompense of what we have done; but this man has done nothing amiss”, (Luke 23:41)?
JT It does in that way. If we keep in mind what John has before him in relation to the indignities heaped on Christ and the ignominious character of His sufferings, we shall see what is meant. Personally, He was immune. He could have got out of the way of any attack if necessary. We are told in chapter 8 that He hid Himself. The Jews could not have taken Him had He wished to avoid them; so that His greatness is apparent. In the garden, when He said to them, “I am he”, they went backward and fell to the ground; (chapter 18:6).
Applied ordinarily, it suggests that if one is distinguished of God, the same kind of opposition will appear. How are we to humble him? We must bring him down. That was the tenor of the spirit that was opposed to Christ all through John — to humiliate Him at all costs. So you see with Pilate, at first he had no animosity towards Christ, but when the time came, he was forced into the strong current of opposition to Him, for he scourged Him and brought Him out to the Jews in derision, wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, and said to them, “Behold the man!”
JS Pilate was caught in the current of Satan, whose design was to humble the Lord.
JT That is the thought; using men to this end, for Pilate scourged Him, and the soldiers in mockery “having plaited a crown of thorns put it on his head, and put a purple robe on him ... and said, Hail,
[p. 53] king of the Jews! and gave him blows on the face”. The murderous answer of the chief priests and the officers to Pilate’s presentation of Him was, “Crucify, crucify him”. All this shows the strong current of ignominious persecution which flowed under the devil’s influence to humiliate Christ.
CAM Whatever position Christ was in, He was always unique and great!
ANW The statement in John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son”, is an offset to the lifting up of the Son of man in verse 14.
Ques Does not the teaching in the early part of chapter 3 show that if the moral state of man is affected, he would come into the new sphere that God would establish?
JT If Nicodemus understood those statements, “It is needful that ye should be born anew”, (verse 7) and “thus must the Son of man be lifted up” (verse 14), it would mean that he would recognise that he deserved nothing better than crucifixion himself.
AFM I would like to ask where these thoughts regarding the sufferings of Christ lead us. I am not quite clear as to the further object of the sufferings recorded in John.
JT As applied to the saints generally, it is the personal distinction that attaches to those in the ministry. The enemy will do all he can to humiliate them, which, of course, they should accept, and God will bring glory out of it. That is a point in John. The saints are great relatively as Jesus is. The one hundred and fifty-three great fishes in chapter 21:11 allude to this. The Philistines envied Isaac as he became great. Isaac said to them, “ye hate me”, (Genesis 26:27).
Ques Why do you get the manifestation of grace so much more in John’s gospel than in the other [p. 54] gospels?
JT It is more love than grace in this gospel, “God so loved” is what comes out. The great Person given is the testimony to the love of God. Luke is the great grace gospel.
Ques . In John 1:17, we have, “grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”. Why do we get that in the gospel of John rather than in Luke?
JT “Grace and truth subsists through Jesus Christ”. That is essential as making way for the display of love. It shows the greatness and effectiveness of what was in Christ as compared with what came out through Moses. But the point in John’s gospel in this respect is the love of God as attested in the gift of the only-begotten Son.
Rem In John 4 you get the incident of the woman at Sychar’s well.
JT Of course, grace is in that, but there is more than grace; “If thou knewest the gift of God”, (chapter 4:10), which refers to God’s love.
WB-w The brazen serpent is one aspect typically of the death of Christ. How does the crossing of the Jordan fit in as a type with this?
JT It is the end of human life in flesh and blood, and our death and resurrection with Christ there; death as the judgment of God was against us, but it is cut off and out of sight. In this sense death is viewed as an enemy of the people of God. “The last enemy that is annulled is death”, (1 Corinthians 15:26). Judgment is typified in the brazen serpent, which is more than death, as we have noted.
WB-w Is it our side in the brazen serpent, and then going through into the land by way of Jordan?
JT Going through is as on dry land, no water in sight — cut off by the power of God, as in Christ’s resurrection. All human life as in flesh and blood comes to an end at the Jordan; the twelve stones were taken out of the bed of the river where the feet [p. 55] of the priests that bore the ark stood. That is, we are risen with Christ as having been buried with Him in baptism; we are risen with Him in His life, the life belonging to Canaan. Then there is circumcision; that is, all of the flesh that might attach to you in the new place is dealt with in toto; but Jordan is the end of all human life, as in flesh and blood.
WB-w Why had the Jordan to be rolled back if there was no evil there?
JT To let the people in. It typifies the power of death standing in the way of the purpose of God, as hindering us from going into the land.
JS The Lord dealing with death itself at the Jordan.
JT Yes; with the thing itself, the last enemy that is annulled is death. Death is viewed as an enemy there.
JTJr The brazen serpent rather contemplates our further movements in the wilderness.
JT Yes; but the Jordan is the counterpart of it. We are viewed now as having eternal life by faith, and therefore going into the scene where it belongs; but death — literal death — is in our way, and it is for us to see that God has dealt with that in the death and resurrection of Christ; so there is nothing to hinder us now from going in.
GMcP Would the Spirit of God in John 4 be the answer to the sufferings of Christ in chapter 3?
JT Just so; the Spirit moves us to come into eternal life — “springing up into eternal life”, (verse 14).
But the subject we are now considering is the sufferings of Christ — the ignominious character of those sufferings.
FHL Might I ask whether the betrayal by Judas did not have a peculiar place in the sufferings? In Matthew and Mark, it says, he covered Him with kisses; whereas, Luke barely refers to this; and John does not refer to Judas’s kiss at [p. 56] all.
JT Judas is exposed in John as early as chapter 6. This sort of man must be exposed in the presence of all the light that is shining. He is tolerated, but he is exposed and called a devil — “and of you one is a devil”, (verse 70). Any allusion to Judas after that is what you might expect, but in the synoptic gospels, his state is not exposed till the end. John would show that Judas caused extended humiliation and sorrow to our Lord. It is not simply that he had a demon, he was a devil — diabolos.
CAM That is instructive because the kind of man that has to be brought to an end is exposed at the beginning of John’s gospel.
JT Man is not on trial in John’s gospel; he is exposed at the very beginning of it, and God comes in through the brazen serpent, so that we might have everlasting life. Therefore a man like Judas cannot escape in John because the light is shining. “He that practises the truth”, the Lord said, “comes to the light”, (chapter 3:21). Judas did not do this. John says, “he was a thief and had the bag, and carried what was put into it”, (chapter 12:6).
JS It is helpful to see that the Jew, the religious man, was in opposition to Christ from the outset.
JT You get far more opposition spoken of in John; there is nothing mentioned about stoning in the synoptic gospels; whereas, in this gospel, twice at least they took up stones to stone the Lord. It was personal opposition to the great Person who had come in. The three references to His being lifted up and many other references, show that the enemy would humiliate the Person, and in like manner he humiliates the saints. God virtually says, If you will humiliate my people, I will bring glory out of it. In the first instance, as to Christ being uplifted, God brings in everlasting life; in the next uplifting, the great truth of the Lord’s Person is in view; and in the third, He is the great Centre of gathering for [p. 57] everyone. So that it is victory after victory, and the overwhelming of the enemy and his power in his attempt to humiliate God’s Son.
CAM The amazing thing is that such a Person should come into such a position at all. Our eyes are focussed on His greatness from the beginning.
JT Why should He be in such positions? He could extricate Himself from them at any time. He “hid himself”, it is said, and He could do so at any time.
NMcC How does the assembly come in as a sufferer? Is it worked out individually?
JT Yes. It says, Saul persecuted the assembly; he did it himself by shutting up in prisons many of the saints and giving his vote when they were put to death. No doubt attacks were made on the saints as together also. Later the Lord says to Smyrna, “Behold, the devil is about to cast of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give to thee the crown of life”, (Revelation 2:10). That is what Satan did, and we need not expect to escape. There is, perhaps, no persecution today, in a corporeal sense, but it is there, nevertheless. Those who “live piously in Christ Jesus will be persecuted”, (2 Timothy 3:12). Some doubtless would rather suffer physically than spiritually; but where the spirit of Christ is manifest, persecution will surely appear.
NMcC Those who do suffer for Christ’s sake and for the testimony should regard it as a privilege.
JT Quite so; I think the apostle Paul had in his mind that suffering in this sense is necessary to bring the assembly into accord with Christ. As you read the list of his sufferings, which is given in 2 Corinthians 11, you marvel at it; the list was written comparatively early and does [p. 58] not include more than a small portion of the sufferings he endured.
AP Does not the expression, “the Lamb’s wife”, infer that she suffers similarly to the Lamb?
JT It does.
AFM How do you think Paul was enabled to suffer so much? He was just human like ourselves.
JT The Lord had constituted him for it; not that he did not feel everything. He was not superhuman, so that it was real human suffering in every case of testing, but in the suffering God helped him. We should be encouraged in seeing that the help he had is available to us. “When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee”, (Isaiah 43:2).
AR The constant persecution of the Lord came from the Jews. Does it not show that they saw something different from any other man in Him?
JT That is right. They said, “How knows this man letters, having never learned?” (John 7:15). Where does He come from, they ask, and Who is He? They did not like the superiority that was there. “Never man spoke thus, as this man speaks” (John 7:46), said the officers to the Pharisees and chief priests. But the Pharisees said, “Are ye also deceived?” (verse 47). They could not bear His superiority and the testimony that went with it.
HE Do you not find the same superiority in the case of the blind man, in John 9?
JT Exactly; how visibly he rose, and rose as superior to the Pharisees! They said, “and thou teachest us?” and they cast him out.
JS I suppose the apostle Paul saw the need of the governmental side in connection with his suffering. He had caused many to suffer.
JT Yes; the Lord says, “I will show to him how much he must suffer for my name”, (Acts 9:16). In John’s gospel there were certain ones standing by the cross of Jesus. That is John’s beautiful way of [p. 59] calling attention to the true followers of Christ, and he is the only one who accredits them with so doing.
JS Are they witnessing His sufferings sympathetically?
JT Yes; Paul says of Onesiphorus, “he has often refreshed me, and has not been ashamed of my chain”, (2 Timothy 1:16). Those whom John speaks of were not ashamed or afraid to be there, but faced the danger of it.
WB-w They were not ashamed of the cross.
JT No; it was “the cross of Jesus”. There was no jeering of the thieves on the part of the Jews, as far as we know; the jeering would be hurled at Jesus, who, as on the cross was in this ignominious position, and these women were identified with it.
ANW This feminine feature at the cross is encouraging to sisters who are open to have part in suffering as much as the brothers.
JT That is what is seen in the verses read; it says, “by the cross of Jesus stood his mother, and the sister of his mother, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala”. You could hardly get a more beautiful and touching picture than this group of sisters standing by the cross of Jesus.
AFM Why is the mother of Jesus mentioned, and then the sister of His mother?
JT I think it shows that they had overcome what is natural. Mere natural affection would not stand in a place of such reproach. John 9:18 - 23 and many other scriptures prove this.
CAM John himself was there.
JT The Lord sees them there, which is another thing. It says, “Jesus therefore, seeing his mother, and the disciple standing by whom he loved, says to his mother, Woman, behold thy son”, (chapter 19:26); showing, as in keeping with this gospel, that He was always superior and could direct things. He could [p. 60] give directions as superior to the sufferings. That is always important. However severe the persecution, we are to be superior, so that divine things are looked after; they cannot be let go. When Paul was in prison, he might have said, I can do nothing now; I am in prison; others must look after things. But he was constantly engaged in ministering to the saints. That is the principle seen in Paul, and depicts the greatness of the believer as corresponding with Christ in persecution.
AFM The Lord left John a fine legacy, would you say, in giving him His mother as his own mother?
JT Yes; and we should notice how as superior to His sufferings, He was able to direct these things. That is what you get throughout this account in John. It is His superiority to the ignominious sufferings that were heaped upon Him. When smitten by an officer in the presence of the high priest, the Lord would regulate the man by the principle governing such a position; (John 18:22,23).
We must not be diverted by pressure, on account of our ordinary duty, from doing what is needed to be done in the testimony. We are apt to neglect the Lord’s interests for the sake of business. A brother says, I have to work tonight, or, I must attend night-school, or, I am too tired to go out, and so his responsibility as to the things of God is shelved; but you see in the Lord’s movements here that in the greatest stress of circumstances the things of the testimony were looked after. So He says to the officer in the presence of the high priest, “If I have spoken evil, bear witness of the evil; but if well, why smitest thou me?” (John 18:23); they smite the Judge of Israel on the cheek, but is the Judge of Israel going to be silent? No, when judgment had fallen to the ground, He sets out judgment, and lifts it up again in the presence of him who should have maintained it. All through these chapters, the Lord is [p. 61] in complete control, and the testimony is maintained.
Ques The women standing at the cross are sympathetic. What would they represent today?
JT The saints standing by in relation to the reproach of Christ. The words, “bearing his reproach” (Hebrews 13:13), refers to His cross, which He bore, for He went out bearing His cross.
AP Would you say there might be the suggestion of defencelessness with them in the presence of such a large mob?
JT Outwardly there was no one to defend them, but though defenceless, they stood there, nevertheless, and nothing happened to them, as far as the record shows, for the Lord was in charge and not man.
AP The people of God in their fewness are defenceless, and hence this service of the Lord on their behalf is very precious.
AR On the cross, the Lord carried out every detail right to the end. “After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now finished ... says, I thirst”, (John 19:28). His mind was perfectly clear right on to the end.
JT When all was done He said, “It is finished; and having bowed his head, he delivered up his spirit”. In John, He does not expire as in Mark and Luke, but delivers up His spirit; that is not properly dying; expiring is that your breath leaves your body, you having no control over it. The Lord is also said to have expired, meaning just that He died. But in John, He delivered up His spirit; He gave it up of Himself, as an act of power.
AFM After all this is finished, John is there to render his testimony with regard to what the Lord could not do or arrange, having died; he renders the very important testimony that the soldier pierced the side of Christ, and blood and water came from it.
JT It confirms what we are saying. Things are attended to in John, and nothing is left undone.
[p. 62] You would be sure that if a divine Person came into manhood, He would do every needful thing; when the Lord delivered up His spirit, John was there, and he saw what happened afterwards. He bore witness, and his witness is true; what he said about the blood and the water is true. And then we have the characteristic statement, “that the scripture might be fulfilled”.
WGT The Lord put the obligation upon John to care for His mother. He did not ask John if he wanted to do it.
JT The Lord gave His mother to John to be his mother; and, of course, that carried certain obligations with it.
APT Referring to Paul’s sufferings in 2 Corinthians 11:28, I was thinking about your remarks as to obligations. It says, “Besides those things that are without, the crowd of cares pressing on me daily, the burden of all the assemblies”. He had the care of all the assemblies. Does that fit in with what you have in mind? Paul was a day and a night in the deep, but he did not overlook his obligation to the assembly even then.
JT Quite so. The assembly must not be overlooked. John shows the greatness of the persons in the testimony; they are great in every sense, and so will not be neglectful; but it is to be feared that with many the things of God are secondary.
CAM We must not be victims of circumstances; that would not be in keeping with the greatness of the persons.
JS Is not the greatness of the Person of Christ seen in this last act in giving up His spirit?
JT It is a divine Person coming into evidence. He delivers it up. No creature could do that. This act is typified, I think, in Moses and Aaron, who both went up to die; that is, they did not die of weakness.
CAM The Lord was not between the [p. 63] two thieves, in John 19:18; it is “two others ... and Jesus in the middle”. He was the central Object on which every eye was focussed.
HE Do you think the overcomer is emphasised in Revelation?
JT Yes. The overcomer is never a victim of circumstances. John is an overcomer, but he is thinking about the saints. In Revelation 1:9 we read: “I John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and patience, in Jesus, was in the island called Patmos, for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus”.
AP Paul’s last words to the elders of Ephesus show how he corresponded with the Lord in caring for the saints, as seen in John: “Wherefore, watch, remembering that for three years, night and day, I ceased not admonishing each one of you with tears”, (Acts 20:31). Suffering went along with it.
JT The most remarkable thing is that the caring for the testimony enters into the Lord’s position on the cross, as we have been seeing.
CAM With all that was transpiring at that moment, time is permitted for everything needed.
JT I think it is a word to us, because there is a great deal of negligence among us. Not that one would accuse anyone, but call attention to the fact. There is a solemn word in Jeremiah 48:10, which says, “Cursed be he that doeth the work of Jehovah negligently”.
RAL Which is the greater — to suffer with Him or to suffer for Him?
JT I think suffering with Him is a more elevated thought. Every Christian suffers for the Lord in some sense; but suffering with Him is the greater thing — the fellowship of His sufferings. You are brought into a bond in suffering with Christ and with [p. 64] the brethren.
APT Does Nicodemus suggest anything on the line of coming into the suffering?
JT Yes; and Joseph of Arimathaea. John alone mentions Nicodemus. He would teach us to include in our thoughts every item of the work of God. John mentions Nicodemus three times, in chapters 3, 7, and 19.
WFK It says, “And I, if I be lifted up ... will draw all to me”. These women and the thief on the cross are amongst those drawn.
JT Yes, that is the idea; they are held there.
Ques You said Peter would glorify God in the kind of death he would die; I was wondering why he, being instructed to follow the Lord, immediately fails.
JT To show the untrustworthiness of the flesh, even in those most distinguished in the Lord’s service. But then, the Lord said that he would glorify God in his death, which he did, so that he finished well. In 1 Peter 5:1 he says, “The elders which are among you I exhort, who am their fellow-elder and witness of the sufferings of the Christ”. He does not say that he is a partaker of them; not that he was not, but I think there is delicacy in his saying he was just a witness. In exhorting the elders, he refers to the sufferings of Christ; this would confirm what has been said as to the Lord looking after things even as on the cross. But Peter says, “who also am partaker of the glory”. Partaking of the glory should deeply encourage us to be elders — to care for the flock.
AFM How, according to John, do we acquire this dignity of which you have spoken?
JT The work of God is seen in those who receive Christ. “As many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God”, (John 1:12). You are taught at the very outset to take up a right — involving family dignity — to be one of the [p. 65] children of God. That is the ground you take. Underneath all that is your birth, you are born of God, that indicates your parentage; there is no family on earth that has such a lineage as the children of God — who are born, not of the will of man, but of God. That is at the beginning of John’s gospel; it teaches you how to take a place of dignity. Then at the end of the gospel the Lord recognises us as His brethren. “But go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”, (chapter 20:17). Hence the unique dignity that attaches to us.
AFM That is very helpful, and should encourage us to respond to the dignity conferred upon us.
CAM What impresses one in connection with the present ministry is that the Lord would have us apprehend the family setting as seen in the gospel of John.
JS The hymn by J.N.D. expresses it well:
“And now, as sons before Thy face, With joyful steps the path we tread!” (87:2)
AR I suppose the dignity you are speaking of would work out in the way things are done in our localities; they are not left undone. The Lord finished. Sometimes it is far otherwise with us.
JT Just so; the finishing of things is a great point, so that things are done, and done well. The Lord said, “I have completed the work which thou gayest me that I should do it”, (John 17:4).
WB-w Does Peter glorifying God in his death refer to Jordan?
JT It is the kind of death. “When thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and bring thee where thou dost not desire”. The Lord is not referring to what he would do immediately, but to what he would do when he became old. When the brethren get older [p. 66] they should be wiser, and more like Christ. Normally, experience makes us more resigned to the will of God. I think Peter represents the ministers: It is, “First ... Peter”, (Matthew 10:2); he is the leading man in the ministry, and he portrays the failures which brothers that are ministering are liable to.
CAM The assembly will not appear in incompleteness at the end. What is given to the saints today is not haphazard; it has the perfecting of the saints in view.
JT That is one of the points of this meeting — to call attention to the obligation resting upon everyone; so that what we do should be marked by completeness, and no appearance of loose ends.