DIVINE APPEARINGS (2)
[p. 165] DIVINE APPEARINGS (2)
Revelation 1:9 - 20; Revelation 2:1 - 6; Revelation 3:7 - 13
JT Our subject is the Lord’s appearings to His people since He rose from the dead, as indicating that He purposed to maintain direct personal communication with His people, with the assembly throughout her sojourn on earth. It may help to remark that the personal service of Christ to the assembly is typified in Jacob. Eve is a type of the assembly as the product of the Father’s work, and Rebecca would represent her as the result of the Spirit’s service, or activities, whereas Jacob is said to have gone into the country of Syria and served for a wife, and for a wife kept sheep — meaning that the Lord undertook the thing Himself. We are occupied with His own service, which continues throughout the whole period, for Jacob served fourteen years, as he says, for his wives, and six years for his cattle. By night the frost consumed him, and the sun by day. That is, there was personal exposure — the side of the truth that should appeal to us peculiarly. And alongside the manifestations of which we spoke yesterday evening, we have this extraordinary one to John, which covers, as we might say, the whole dispensation of the assembly’s sojourn here, in that it contemplates the various stages — first of departure, and then of recovery. Hence, the bearing of it extends down to our own times.
JBS Do we get departure and recovery in Jacob, in his going down and his returning?
JT Well, if you look at him as a type of a Christian you do, but we are also entitled to look at him as a type of Christ. The patriarchs all represent Christ in some way, and they also represent individuals. But I was speaking of Jacob entirely from the standpoint [p. 166] point of a type of Christ. You see, Jacob “fled into the country of Syria”, as it reads in the better translation — Hosea 12:12 — meaning that it was extended, not confined to a city or town. One would venture to suggest that Paul’s ministry (he representing the Lord personally), in its wide extent, would answer to that. He preached, he says, in a circuit from Jerusalem round about to Illyricum. He fully preached the gospel of Christ. It was what Christ, he says, wrought in me. It was Christ that was doing it. We see how Jacob on his arrival in Syria is occupied at a well, removing the stone and feeding the flock; and as Rachel appears she is called a shepherdess. There is a correspondence between her and Jacob. That is, there is the contemplation in both of active service, active care for others. This extraordinary appearing to John has the whole history of the assembly in view, and it is a proper adjunct to what we had last evening, only it will lead us to look at the failure of the assembly, the public body, and then we can also, by the Lord’s help, contemplate with satisfaction and joy the recovery in Philadelphia. I think we can see by what we had last evening, and what is contemplated in these chapters, that the Lord intended to maintain personal contact with His people throughout the whole period. He is seen here as walking in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks.
WP Does that suggest continuance?
JT Yes. I gather from it that the Lord is moving about at the present time, not only in relation to His own who love Him — He has His eye especially on those who love Him — which Philadelphia represents, and, indeed, which the overcomer represents in every assembly, but walks about in regard of what is evil. He takes account of what is evil, and that makes it extremely serious for Christendom. We may in our smallness of vision limit ourselves to our [p. 167] own localities in our exercises and prayers, and, of course, the Lord values that — what there is locally — but He is concerned about the whole of Christendom; that is, the whole of the professing body forms His circuit.
WP Does it not begin small with us? We start in our own, perhaps a narrow, local circle, and the Lord instructs us, and we extend out in our thoughts and affections.
JT That is the normal effect of our contact with the Lord. You are led into His thoughts. “If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me”. John 13:8. You have part in all that He is going on with, but it may not have occurred to some of us that the Lord is moving about, according to these passages, in the whole domain of profession, and all comes under His immediate inspection. Hence the judicial habiliments that appear here, and the power that appears to enforce His rights and to deal with evil.
AH An opportunity for repentance is always kept open.
JT Yes, quite.
WP Should the exercise for us be to hear His voice in whatever way He speaks to us, whether it is in calling attention to what is evil or what He can commend?
JT That is the thing. “He that hath an ear, let him hear”. There is that which the Lord says to each assembly, and which represents His authority; and then there is what the Spirit says, which everyone is to hear. I apprehend what the Lord says conveys His mind for any given period. The Spirit enlarges on that, breaks it up through ministry.
AH Does the Spirit make it applicable for the present moment?
JT Yes. It becomes the ministry for the moment. The Spirit would enlarge on [p. 168] it.
JT You see how John becomes in this book a personal representative of the Lord in regard to all this. He is taken into the Lord’s confidence. He sent and signified it by His angel to His bondman John, who testified the word of God, all things that he saw. The Lord in an appearing conveys to the person His mind, and makes him personally His confidant. So that there is personal representation. But then you find in John a gracious or loving identification with those who love the Lord. “I, John, who also am your brother and companion in tribulation”. He links himself with and places himself alongside us at once. Whilst he is the Lord’s confidant, as we may say, and His personal representative in regard to what is conveyed, he is also our brother and companion in tribulation. So that a mutual link is established at once with us, and the sympathies of those that love the Lord are immediately called into action.
GE Did the Lord suggest this when He said to Peter, “If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” John 21:22.
JT I thought that He reserved John. John was a reserve man, kept under the Lord’s hand for a work that He had in View of the breakdown of the assembly. As it says in John, “He himself knew what he would do”. The Lord is not taken unawares. He knew what was coming, and He kept John in reserve.
HM Before there can be those confidential relations and intercourse with the Lord, and the unfolding of His mind, the face has to be in the direction of Himself, has it not? So that John is turned round to behold Him.
JT Yes. We have to change our position for a communication, or a manifestation. You find throughout this book constant change of position. He is delightfully in accord with the primary feature of the dispensation. “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day”,
[p. 169] he says. We may be sure if we are there we shall come in for something of this kind.
AH-e Would you say a little more as to the primary feature of the dispensation?
JT I think it is indicated in that word, “I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day”, that is, a state of abstraction in which one is entirely for Christ. You are for Christ, as in the Spirit, and therefore John was not personally at all involved in the judicial attitude of Christ. He had nothing to fear, and, whilst he would feel the general departure of the assembly as a public body, he was personally immune. The Lord lays His right hand on him and He says, “Fear not”. The Lord gave him to understand that he was personally immune, and that His power, all the power of the Lord, was available to him.
GA Like Daniel, a man greatly beloved.
JT Just so. Laying His right hand on him involved that He committed Himself to John; all His power is with what John represents, and that runs right through the whole period, so that Philadelphia is commended because she has a little power, and He further unfolds to her that He is the One that “openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth”, and He had set before her an open door which no one could shut. So that, I think, we are coming in for the “right hand”, the power of the Lord.
JS Is that for us individually or collectively?
JT I think both. I think that the Lord has greatly helped us. Some years back emphasis was laid on the individual side, which was most essential, but now I think the Lord has greatly helped the brethren on the collective side; that is, there is a sense in which we come in for collective privilege, in which there is a measure of collective testimony, in the sense in which the Lord Himself [p. 170] is represented.
GE It must necessarily commence with individuals, would you say?
JT Quite.
HM Is not the outcome of this condition, too, that we see in John that the Lord presents Himself to him in detail, so that he gets the sense of all His present activities — His hands, His feet, His face? He can trace it all, cannot he?
JT You see how that is broken up in the various addresses; how the Lord refers back to these features in the various addresses.
GA What is the import of John’s turning to see the voice?
JT He is a model there; a model for us. We want to be ready to move as the voice comes. The personal pronoun “I” in connection with John is to be noted. It is also found in connection with the Lord Jesus in this book. When John says, “I, John”, your attention is called to him.
GA I was wondering would it imply that the voice and the Person were the same. John had heard that voice, and knew it only came from one Person. I wondered whether it stood out in contrast to what comes afterwards. It is a remarkable expression, “to see a voice”.
JT Yes, and our attention is called, “I turned to see”.
GA “Turn thou us unto thee, O Lord, and we shall be turned”, Lamentations 5:21.
JT That is it. It is well when the people of God are prepared to move with the light — with the communications that the Lord makes.
JBS Is it similar to Mary? She turned, and she received that wonderful message.
JT Yes. It is very similar. It was not accidental. It is what you might call spiritual instinct at the moment. Every move that is seen in Mary should be noted, and so every move in John should [p. 171] be noted, because the Spirit of God in the use of the personal pronoun ‘I’ is calling special attention to him, as you will observe in verse 9, “I, John”. It is well to take account of models. Men of like passions as ourselves. The truth is brought nearer to you. So that in John you have a Christian, as he says here, “your brother and fellow-partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and patience in Jesus”. He was a Christian, just in this sense, and he turned to see the voice.
WP Does the fact that he speaks of himself in that way, “your brother and companion in tribulation”, suggest that recovery is not on official lines, but in connection with brotherly love?
JT That comes out in our day — the brother, the companion in tribulation. You are ready to listen to him now. He is by our side; he is one of ourselves.
WP Not only do we recognise him in that way, but he takes that place.
JT He does. And then I think he is also typical in the falling down, because the Lord’s appearance to him meant the general breakdown of the public body, and he, of course, was in that. If he fell at His feet as one dead, the whole public body should take that place. The pope should take that place, and the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the leaders of the Methodist Conferences, and the Moderators of the Presbyterians, and the Patriarch of the Greek Church, and all the lesser dignitaries should fall at His feet as dead. You see what a clean sweep it would make. John is a leader here; he is a leader for us, because if he felt the need of falling down, we should all feel it, because we have all had part in the public scandal of the assembly.
WP That involves right condition, does it not?
JT Quite.
JS Would you make a little clearer what John was immune from, and what John was involved [p. 172] in?
JT That is a good point to raise. John personally was immune, because he loved the Lord, and had no personal part in the general failure, but, being in fellowship, being outwardly connected with the name of Christ by baptism, or, at least, by profession, for the apostles were not baptised as far as we know; but by profession, he was involved in the general catastrophe, and in no sense sought to evade it. It is incumbent on everyone in the profession to accept the consequences of the general breakdown. We are all in it, we cannot evade the obligation; but, then, there are the overcomers. I take it that Benjamin represents the overcomer among the sons of Jacob. He had no personal part in the selling of Joseph to the Midianites. He was not with the ten brothers when that happened — possibly had no knowledge of it. He remained with his father. But, nevertheless, he had to suffer the famine. God called for a famine; it says in the Psalms, “He broke the whole staff of bread”. Psalm 105:16. And Benjamin waited with his father, Jacob, who had no personal part in the crime; nevertheless, they had to suffer the consequences of it, and particularly Benjamin. He was obliged to go through all the sorrowful and painful exercises with his brethren. He was not, indeed, put into prison like Simeon. Indeed, they were all imprisoned at first, and rightly. But, on the second visit, when they brought down Benjamin, they had to go through a painful process, and Benjamin shared it. Nevertheless, Benjamin was under Joseph’s eye from the very outset of his appearance in Egypt, and Joseph’s house comes into evidence as soon as Benjamin is on the scene. Then he gets five times as much as any of his brethren, so that the overcomer is taken account of, and immune from the ultimate results of the breakdown. Nevertheless, he accepts the obligation of it, and, to some extent, at least, he suffers with the [p. 173] mass.
GA Would you say that Daniel is a confirmation of that principle? Like John, he sees a divine Person presented. He takes up the position practically as John did. He accepts the liability in a way that rests upon him, although not involved in the thing. Though separate from it, he accepts the situation. Would that be akin to the position of John?
JT I think it would. It shows how an individual who loves the Lord may clear himself morally, and that word is important there — that whilst we are publicly involved in the scandal we are morally clear. In falling down before the Lord, we accept the fact that the judgment involved in His judicial habiliments is merited by us.
AH Such a position would save us from any presumption — accepting the shame.
JT It would. You see it in Daniel confessing his sins, his father’s sins, and you see it in Ezra in a beautiful way — the full acknowledgement of the guilt of the nation. In that acknowledgement he is morally clear. That is how we get morally clear, whilst still identified publicly with the general scandal.
JBS Benjamin came in publicly as the son of sorrow. You would say that is what characterised him in what you have been referring to?
JT Just so.
RW Would that define our attitude in relation to Christendom at the present moment?
JT I think it does. If we are with the Lord we accept the shame — the whole ecclesiastical shame, from the setting up of popery right down to the present time, and all the subdivisions of evil that exist. We are implicated in them all because the public position is, we are all partakers. But how to get morally clear is the point for us, and I think the overcomer is always the link. The overcomer is the link in every assembly, because an overcomer is morally [p. 174] clear.
JS There seems to be a principle in the ways of God that you are involved in things that you had no part in, and really not to blame for.
JT Caleb and Joshua would be an illustration, too. They had no part; indeed, they oppose the unbelief of the others, and, yet, they shared the consequences of the unbelief of the ten spies and all the people for forty years. Then they come in, ultimately, for their portion, because God is infinitely just with us. We lose nothing.
JS I thought if we accepted it as we should we gain much.
JT Yes. What one had in mind was that perhaps a consideration of these chapters would lead us to see how we get morally clear, and, as such, the Lord can identify Himself with us.
HM Is it not encouraging, too, that, if we take our true position, as John did, the very hand that holds the seven stars is put upon us, and the very mouth, out of which went the two-edged sword, says: “Fear not”, and which unfolds His love to us?
JT Beautiful. I think we might see in the addresses a breaking up into detail of the general appearings. In the address to Ephesus, He holds the seven stars; that is, He supports those who are responsible. The stars are the angels of the seven assemblies — those responsible. The responsible element, as yet, was supported by the Lord. He held them. And, then, again, He says to Smyrna: “These things says the first and the last, who became dead and lived”, Revelation 2:8. It appears as if Smyrna was in accord with John. This was a special word to John: “I am he that liveth and was dead, and, behold, I am alive for evermore”. Smyrna represents a state of suffering among the people of God. “Ye shall have tribulation ten days”, Revelation 2:10. He says. The Lord is known as the One who has the power — all the keys of hades — so that He can limit satanic influence.
[p. 175] He can limit it. He is the One who became dead and lived. Then in Pergamos, He says, “These things says he that has the sharp two-edged sword”, because the evil was setting in and the word now is the thing — the word of God. The evil that was creeping into the assembly at Pergamos was such as might have been undetected, because evil is very insidious. Satan works insidiously, but “the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do”, Hebrews 4:12,13. So that the word of God was an immense thing for the faithful in the days of Pergamos. I can understand that in those days the Spirit of God would enlarge on the question of life and of resurrection, as the saints were suffering martyrdom. The great truth of resurrection, that He became dead and lived, would be enlarged upon in the ministry of the Spirit. But in Pergamos the word of God would be enlarged on, and coupled to the sword of the Spirit.
EMW Do you mean the letter of Scripture?
JT Oh, no. It is more the word of God as used by the Spirit. It is really God Himself, “all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him”. It is not ‘it’, but “him”. It is the living word of God. It is living. And it is brought to bear on a condition like Pergamos when evil was creeping in. It would expose that for the true believer.
EMW It is in relation to Scripture, though?
JT Oh, surely. For us the Scriptures are the record of it, but then you see the Holy Spirit is here, and that is what one would call special attention to: “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says”. Whilst we have in the Bible a complete [p. 176] record of every phase of the word of God, yet the Spirit of God enlarges on that. So that we have amplification and application of what the Lord said.
AH You would not go outside Scripture?
JT No. You have amplification and application, the Holy Spirit being here as a divine Person. He indeed has indited the Scriptures. It is what He “says”, notice, not what He ‘said’ In every phase of the assembly there is a speaking. There is nothing new added to revelation, but an amplification and application, perhaps, such as were not apparent in the apostles’ days, because the conditions were not there. It is a great thing to make room for the Spirit in His present activities.
WWW That emphasis the importance of the present day.
JT Exactly. The Holy Spirit is amplifying what the Lord said covering this present time.
WW Would you say as difficulties arise we get light to meet them?
JT We do. So that when you come to Thyatira He says, “These things says the Son of God, he that has his eyes as a flame of fire”, Revelation 2:18. Now you see you have a ministry of jealousy, a ministry that involves the house of God, for the Son is over that house. You would look, therefore, for the Spirit enlarging on the truth of the Son of God as He is over the house, and in His jealousy dealing with all that is contrary to Him — “eyes as a flame of fire”.
GA Would that imply that there had been in Thyatira a disregard of the principles of the house of God?
JT Obviously. The whole government of the house and principles of the house had been disregarded. You know Rome and all the other great bodies are travesties of the truth of the house of God. The Lord feels all that interferes with His rights as [p. 177] over the house. It is most interesting — nothing can be more interesting really than this, because it opens up the whole history of the assembly viewed as having failed, and how the Lord has met it in His own personal service; it is what He is doing.
LG Would you say this comes out in the Lord? He goes up to Jerusalem and clears the temple.
JT That corresponds exactly. That is His attitude here. The whip of small cords corresponds with these features.
LG After having cleared it, in Mark, “He taught, saying to them, Is it not written, My house shall be called a house of prayer?” Mark 11:17.
JT He first comes in and looks around on all things in that gospel — He makes a survey of what is there, then He comes back the next morning with a whip of small cords, and, entering into the temple, He purges it, and answers questions. That is a great principle — He is supreme in it.
HM As these details are taken up, does not the particular detail of each assembly show that He has a particular word, a particular presentation of Himself, for each period and each crisis?
JT That is right. And we desire to be in accord with that. We wish to know what the word is for us, and see that it is enlarged on.
JS Do you connect it with localities as well as with what is general?
JT Yes, quite. For instance, He says to Ephesus, “I am coming to thee, and I will remove thy lamp out of its place, except thou shalt repent”, That has a local reference, has it not?
JS I think it must have.
JT “I am coming to thee”. And then He says to Pergamos, “Repent, therefore, but if not, I come to thee quickly, and I will make war with them with the sword of my mouth”, Revelation 2:16.
JS That raises a local [p. 178] exercise!
JT Indeed. What a serious time at Ephesus when the Lord came thus. How differently when Paul, who was His great representative, visited the Ephesians, as recorded in Acts 20. He sent for the elders, who came to him, and there was a beautiful expression of affection between them. He warns them of it; as yet the evil had not come in, but now this coming meant that the evil had set in, and He was going to remove their candlestick. I have often thought of the difference between the visit of the Lord to persons and a visit to a locality. If He comes to a locality as such, He deals with all in it.
JS That is, to put it simply, not merely the meeting as we speak.
JT He would deal with every Christian in the locality, indeed every nominal Christian is under His eye if He comes to a locality.
JS Every professing Christian?
J.T. What would you say?
JS Well, I am deeply interested, but I had not thought much of the profession myself. It commends itself to me.
AH The Lord here is speaking to all, although there may only be those who are vitally interested to hear His voice. He is speaking to all in view of response by all.
JT That is it. Everyone is responsible, every nominal Christian in this town is responsible to the Lord Jesus, and He holds them to it.
AH There never is a time when anyone may go on with evil. There is always a way out.
JT There is always a way out, and we must not evade the obligation resting upon us in our localities. The whole profession is responsible, and we must not forget nor ignore it.
GA Does it imply that the various exercises raised With the assemblies may be gone through in a [p. 179] locality — that it may be a question of one exercise now and a further exercise later?
JT Yes.
AH-e Do you think we should not regard this as past history in relation to the assembly, but its present application to us in our day in all its phases?
JT All these letters were to be written in a book, in one book, and sent to the assemblies, so that each assembly had all that was written to the others. That maintains a general exercise as to obligation to the Lord as well as local exercise. You know His mind about the whole, but you know it particularly about your own locality.
CA How would we discover intelligently the exercise which the Lord would raise in our locality?
JT What He says to Ephesus or to Smyrna or to Pergamos was an authoritative pronouncement. Now to bring that down to detail in any locality the Lord has His own way of asserting His authority. Something comes in — it may not be much — but it has authority in your soul. It appeals to you as the Lord’s commandment; it is an authoritative word for the time. Now, the Holy Spirit will take that up, and enlarge on it. That is what is meant by, “he that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”. The Spirit enlarges on that. It is not for you only, but for the whole assembly — it is not what the Spirit says to the assembly. What the Lord says to such and such an assembly is said; but it is what the Spirit says to the assemblies. That is, the ministry is for all.
HM Would it make for a good moral state?
JT Yes, it does. But it gives a wide scope. The Lord may have an authoritative word for any locality, but the amplification of that is for all.
HM So that there is a principle that may be dealt with that is world-wide in its bearing?
JT Yes. If anything occurs in Brisbane, if a [p. 180] conflict arises so that evil has to be dealt with, there is spoil from that. So that the Holy Spirit amplifies that, and enlarges on it, and the whole assembly benefits from it.
GA So that local difficulties, of whatever character they may be, cease in the light of that to be of small moment.
JT They do. They have a general bearing, the Holy Spirit is here in the assembly, and He operates in relation to the whole.
WP Are there not questions that may be raised locally that have no need to be raised universally?
JT No doubt, but if there is any spoil it is for the whole assembly.
AH-e So that you have not defeat before you, but rather victory?
JT That is the thing. So that, before you have the failure of Peter and the brothers that were with him, you have the thought of a manifestation mentioned in John 21, because the manifestation is the thing, you see; it means the accession of light. That is what is in the Lord’s mind in allowing things to happen.
HM So that every heart that loves Him in that locality, and stands loyal to Him, gets a special presentation of Himself!
JT Quite. You get that as spoil, and the Holy Spirit, I believe, takes it up.
GA This would make us intensely sympathetic with saints in any locality who are going through a specific exercise.
JT Yes. Because it is yours, Hence the thought is that the faithful in Ephesus would be interested in what was going on at Smyrna, and all the other assemblies. They are getting the gain of what the Spirit says to the assemblies.
GA It would not be a matter of curiosity, but of [p. 181] spiritual exercise.
JT Quite.
JS I was thinking there might be concern, not only in regard to what happened, but in regard to what we may have missed of the spoil that was acquired.
JT Quite.