PRAYER: CHARACTERISTIC OF THE PERFECT MAN (4)
[p. 101] PRAYER: CHARACTERISTIC OF THE PERFECT MAN (4)
Luke 22:39 - 46; Luke 23:34; Luke 23:39-43
JT We considered previously the Lord praying on the mount and the transfiguration that followed, which, it was thought, suggested a change in the believer as to progress in his soul. He takes on the heavenly colour, and is thus different — marked off from ordinary religionists in this world. Then the furnishings in the local companies are in keeping with such a change, these furnishings being dependent on the Holy Spirit as given of “the Father who is of heaven”, Luke 11:13 as it says.
This passage presents the Lord praying in relation to His sufferings. It is obvious that in our progress, as we are identified with Christ here, we come in for sufferings, so that we may learn from this passage how we are to go through and endure them. There is to be entire submission, as we see in the Lord, to the will of God. Peter, in his epistle, works out how believers come into suffering as under the government of God here. They are not accidental — they are designed under the government of God; so that Jesus is said to be a model for us in that epistle, as we read: “Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously”, 1 Peter 2:23.
JCS So that you think, whilst the sufferings of the Lord Jesus here were unique, yet in them He affords a pattern for us in our sufferings of whatever nature they may be.
JT That is what I had in mind. This evangelist says, “He came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. And when he was at the place he said unto them, Pray [p. 102] that ye enter not into temptation. And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down and prayed”, etc. Matthew and Mark tell us that He went to “Gethsemane”, and John that He entered into “a garden”, but Luke says He went to the “mount of Olives”. I think the allusion is to the Spirit, for the position of the saints here involves that they are anointed by the Spirit, by the holy oil with which the tabernacle was anointed, which is, as you may say, the spirit of a suffering Christ. Hence in Acts 1 we are told that He showed Himself living after He had suffered. His sufferings open up to one’s mind a good deal. As He showed Himself to them alive after having suffered they had before them a model of what should mark themselves. It is life out of death; but then it is life out of sufferings, and it is given unto us on behalf of Christ not only to believe but to suffer. So that the passage, I think, opens up to us much of what it is to suffer. The mount of Olives affords shelter at the outset, because it suggests the Spirit and immediate proximity to heaven.
RJW Would you say that the believer, in taking character from the Lord Jesus, partakes of the nature of the acacia wood?
JT Yes, exactly; he has the power of endurance.
JCS You mentioned the fact that we receive the spirit of a suffering Christ. Would the very fact that we receive the Spirit in that light involve suffering — we must be prepared to suffer as having received that spirit?
JT Yes, I think so. The only compound with which the tabernacle was anointed was composed largely of myrrh; there were other ingredients, but myrrh is mentioned first.
Rem Would you say — having the end in view fortifies us for suffering? He showed Himself alive — the suffering was [p. 103] passed.
JT Yes, it is One alive, as having suffered. The idea of suffering is different from the idea of dying, although He died; they go together. Still He showed Himself alive after He had suffered.
SF This would be a prominent feature in Christianity at the present time, would it not?
JT I think it is. From the very outset it was intended that the saints should suffer. Paul speaks of filling up “that which is behind of the tribulations of Christ in my flesh for his body, which is the assembly”, Colossians 1:24. It would indicate that sufferings were to mark the saints, and Paul was zealous in this in so far as it lay with him. The idea should be filled out. Indeed, the Lord, in taking him up, had said, “I will show him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake”, Acts 9:16. It was a part of his testimony.
SF So that the Lord Jesus is the model, and Paul becomes a great example to us.
JT That is the thought. We have, in one of like passions as ourselves, the continuation of the spirit of the suffering Christ, and it is “for his body’s sake”, Colossians 1:24 he says.
JCS So that the sufferings the apostle endured in relation to what was of Christ here on earth are still continued, because the spirit of that suffering Man is still here.
GHC In Psalm 45 we get the myrrh, aloes and cassia, referring to the Lord Jesus here.
EBMcC “The fellowship of his sufferings”, Philippians 3:10. Paul says.
JT It is that we are privileged to come into these — to have fellowship in His sufferings; and one would especially note the mount of Olives, because there is shelter there. I think the Spirit is in view, so that you are not at your own charges. In going through suffering you prove what the Spirit is — you know what the Spirit is to you. It may be [p. 104] noted that the altar was anointed seven times. It suggests intense suffering.
WJP Would the oil suggest healing?
JT Well, I think there is superiority in the Spirit to the sufferings. You see how perfectly it appeared in Philippi. Paul and Silas were thrust into the inner prison. It seemed as if the jailor, in his zeal to inflict the severest punishment, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks; they were scourged — the most excruciating physical suffering; and yet it says, at midnight they prayed, and in prayer they praised God. There you see the superiority to the sufferings, by the Spirit.
Ques Would Stephen afford an illustration of that?
JT I believe he is the counterpart of Christ. The manner in which he went through shows a superiority in the sufferings in that he was able to act as priest — to intercede for his murderers. It is affecting. Can we find anything more corresponding to the Lord on the cross than Stephen exhibits? He was able to do just what the Lord did. The Lord said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”; Stephen says, “Lord, lay not this sin to their charge”. Acts 7:60. He did not ask the Lord not to lay other sins to their charge, but not to lay that one. He was not resentful. I do not suppose Stephen would think of asking the Lord to remit the guilt of His own murder, but he did ask the Lord not to lay that one to their charge.
AHR I was thinking, with regard to suffering, gladness and rejoicing flow out of it. Would you say He endured the cross for the joy that was set before Him; and we should be encouraged not to resent suffering, because gladness and blessing will follow?
JT Yes, indeed. “The joy that was set before him”. Hebrews 12:2. We cannot go through sufferings [p. 105] without the Spirit; we shall otherwise complain and resent them.
JCS So that both in the case of Paul and Silas in the prison and in that of Stephen there was some correspondence with the anointed altar.
JT That is what I thought. You will remember the passage in the types, “Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them. And he sprinkled thereof on the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels”, Leviticus 8:10,11. I think that calls attention to the need of the Spirit if we are to suffer. We have already dwelt on the need of the Spirit as coming out of heaven, as given of the Father for local conditions; but we need the Spirit particularly if we are to suffer as Christ suffered.
Rem It is remarkable that oil should be the symbol used, because it is procured by the crushing of the olive.
RT Peter says, “Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind”. 1 Peter 4:1. How does that apply?
JT It refers back to the third chapter (1 Peter), in which he says that Christ suffered for us in the flesh. Now you take that on. One arms oneself with the light that one, as it were, suffered in Christ’s sufferings. The sufferings were all there — suffering in the flesh; it was for sins. He suffered for us, so that you have done with sin. The point there is that you do not have anything more to do with sin, because as suffering in the flesh you have done with that. It is a remarkable enforcement of the sufferings of Christ in their bearing on our everyday life. You are not to sin again — that is the bearing of that.
WJP What we have to do is to arm ourselves.
JCS What you are speaking of now relates to the vicarious sufferings of Christ.
JT Yes. But that is not the point in Luke. We do not get the forsaking of God in Luke. It is [p. 106] rather how He accepted suffering. Luke mentions that He went to the mount of Olives, because, I think, he alludes to the Spirit.
WS Do you think the mount of Olives would suggest the reserves we have in the Spirit for suffering?
JT I think it does.
JCS Would you enlarge a little on the idea of the altar being anointed?
JT What has been called attention to is worthy of notice, because the pouring of the oil seven times on the altar is obviously to call attention to the spiritual power needed for the suffering that had to be endured; and so the Lord, in the endings of the gospels — that is, in the corresponding passages of the three gospels — is seen in suffering. He is seen in that way as the altar, and what impresses you is His wonderful endurance. Everything is accepted from the will of God. There is not the slightest evidence of any resentment — all is accepted from God.
RJW Would you enlarge a little on what you said, that Christ Himself is the altar? The scripture says that the altar is greater than that which is put on it.
JT Well, I think the dimensions of the altar show that it was a type of Christ as suffering. It was five cubits broad, with horns, and three cubits high, that is, there was weakness. Christ was crucified in weakness, but at the same time there was power. Three cubits high refers, I think, to the inherent power of life that was in Christ. The horns also denote power. The suffering thus was borne in perfect submission to the will of God, and yet in perfect dignity.
EO Peter says, in connection with reproach, “The spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you”, 1 Peter 4:14.
JT That comes in. As you endure sufferings there is testimony. You can see how it shines out in [p. 107] Christ on the cross. The glory is in the fact that He says, “Father, forgive them”. It was in wonderful accord with the mind of God. So with Stephen, the glory shines in remarkable power in a man of like passions with ourselves. That he should go through all that suffering, and yet be like Christ was a great testimony. He says, “Lord, lay not this sin to their charge”. Acts 7:60.
GHC You were speaking about abundant reserves in the Spirit for suffering; would that be indicated by the Lord praying more earnestly as the pressure increased?
JT It would. Prayer is the attitude. We were remarking that Paul and Silas prayed, and in prayer they praised God, showing their superiority to what they were enduring. What wonderful support must have been poured into their souls from heaven at that hour! And that is what we may reckon on. So the Lord is setting us an example here in that He prayed three times.
JCS Paul and Silas did that in the power of the Spirit who had come down from that One who had suffered, so He could identify Himself with their sufferings.
FH Could you help us as to the form the sufferings might take at the present time?
JT We have the statement: “All that will live godly in Christ Jesus” (i.e., the anointed Man) “shall suffer persecution”, 2 Timothy 3:12. As He was anointed He came into suffering. He was carried into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. As though God would challenge all the devil’s power; in the power of the anointing Jesus would go through for God’s glory. When the Philistines heard that David was anointed, they sought him out; and again, in Psalm 2:2, it says, “The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord, and against his anointed”. Now if any [p. 108] man will live godly in Christ Jesus he shall suffer persecution. You are coming in for persecution. Wherever it comes from, it will come, because Satan will not let us alone as having been anointed. Then there is the privilege: “Unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake”. Philippians 1:29.
SF On that line there is heavenly support. An angel from heaven strengthened Him.
JT That was another point I had in my mind to call attention to, because the angel is distinct from the anointing. Angels represent what is providential — what has reference rather to our bodies. The Spirit has reference to our souls — to what we are inwardly. The angel mitigates. Hence the Lord says to Smyrna, “Ye shall have tribulation ten days”. Revelation 2:10. It is a limited period. That was providential. The angel has to do with all providential things, and ministers to our bodies so that we should not succumb through physical pressure.
SF That is a very helpful distinction.
Ques Would that touch the line of priesthood?
JT Well, no doubt. He comes in accord with the sympathies of Christ to support. Of course we may reckon on angelic help as He did here. In Matthew the angel has to do with public government, but in Hebrews it says they are “Sent out for service on account of those who shall inherit salvation”, Hebrews 1:14. So that we may always reckon on angelic help in suffering.
AHR Are there not two kinds of suffering here, the inward and the outward — the suffering in the garden and the suffering on the cross?
JT Yes. The physical suffering had not yet begun. In fact all this is anticipative of what was coming; but the services of the angel ought to be well noted, because we may reckon on that, so that we are not tempted above that we are able. The [p. 109] angel comes in to limit the thing. The Spirit carries you through, and you are like Christ in going through it; but there are limitations. We cannot endure as He endured, or Stephen, or Paul, so the Lord limits the trial to our measure. And I think the service of the angel is in that connection, as I have remarked about Smyrna — the persecution would be, as it were, for ten days. It should not go past ten. That would be some angelic intervention to check the power that persecuted, and so it comes down to everyone of us, in detail, that the affliction goes just so far; it does not go beyond your power. The point is to go through it, whether long or short, like Christ; that is what God has in His mind.
WJP There is a verse in Peter’s epistle: “Kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation”. 1 Peter 1:5. Is that a reference to the body or the soul? Would that imply angelic power?
JT It is the power of God through faith unto salvation — the soul’s salvation — that Peter is speaking of there. He says also, “Wherein ye exult, for a little while at present, if needed, put to grief by various trials, that the proving of your faith, ... be found to praise and glory and honour in the revelation of Jesus Christ”, 1 Peter 1:6,7. At present, if needed “we are put to grief by various trials”. They come in for good, but are limited. The angel, I think, comes in for limitation.
EC Do you think there might be a suggestion here that the suffering might pass the limit of human endurance, but the angel extends the limit?
JT Well, it says, He “will not suffer you to be tempted above what ye are able”, 1 Corinthians 10:13 and I think that is where the ministration of angels comes in, to limit the sufferings.
CHH What do we learn from the Lord Jesus in the way He went through suffering? Is it that He [p. 110] accepted it from God? He preferred God’s will to being delivered from the suffering.
JT That is what comes out, I think. We are given His actual words elsewhere in this gospel. We are not told what He said in prayer. We are in John’s gospel; we have the full prayer there recorded, but not in Luke. This, I think, is the first time we have His actual words, and it is to recognise the Father’s will — the will of God.
AHR Is the angel the answer to the mount of Olives?
JT I think it is a collateral ministration. In our case the Spirit is one thing and the angel is another. My thought is that we should reckon on the ministration of angels in our sufferings, but go through in the power of the Spirit.
Ques Why do we get the angel in connection with the releasing of Peter, while in the case of Paul and Silas there was no angel?
JT I think the angel is in the earthquake. Any physical interference or movement, I think, comes under the ministration of angels. The earthquake shook the foundations of the prison. In Peter’s case the doors of the prison were opened and he was let out. There was no shaking of the prison, nor did the prisoners get any gain from what happened; whereas, in the case of Paul and Silas you feel there is a full answer to what we have here. It is what Luke would present — the prisoners heard.
Rem Paul and Silas prayed. By the Spirit they were enabled to pray; He comes in in that way; whereas it was not that with Peter.
JT Of course, we cannot tell definitely as to Peter. No doubt he prayed. We do know the assembly prayed for him, but the account indicates a state of unbelief, because they did not expect their answers. It was a weak situation; they were not looking for an answer to their prayers. That is a [p. 111] humbling thing, that we should have prayer meetings without any expectation of answer to our prayers; whereas God had answered their prayers, and it was by angelic intervention. In the case of Paul and Silas there is a beautiful touch, in that the prisoners heard: I am sure there never had been such a time as that in a prison.
RJW The other translation says, “the prisoners listened to them”, Acts 16:25. They were attentive.
JT It was a marvellous turning into testimony of the power of the altar, the power of endurance in the service of Christ; the expression, as it were, of heaven in the interior of a dungeon; and when the jailor would have killed himself, a voice comes out of the prison — Paul’s voice — “Do thyself no harm, for we are all here”. Acts 16:28. It was a marvellous turning of suffering into testimony.
JCS That must have been a very agreeable scene for heaven to look down on, and see the reproduction of what Jesus was here as the suffering One.
JT It was indeed a counterpart of it.
RT Can we view Paul in Philippians 4 as one who had been under the formation of the Spirit? The Spirit of Christ is seen in him; he can say, “To know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings”. Philippians 3:10.
JT Philippians, amongst other things, sets out the sufferings of Christ. It emphasises the sufferings of Christ as part of Christianity. Philippians is like the tabernacle — the anointing is there. The assembly at Philippi began in sufferings at the outset; it had its origin in those sufferings we have just been speaking of. It was the gateway into Europe; and it was of God that the testimony should go into Europe in accord with the tabernacle, because it was to be in Europe that the great features of the testimony could be developed, and it was in keeping with the mind of God that the light should come in through [p. 112] these wonderful vessels at Philippi. The saints there had fellowship with the apostle in the gospel from the beginning — “from the first day until now”, Philippians 1:5.
Ques Would you say that prayer gives us power, and fortifies us to endure?
JT It brings in the power of endurance — the Spirit.
JCS So that, while the support of the angel may come in an indirect way, it is the support of heaven for those who are prepared to suffer on the lines you have mentioned.
Rem The stone’s throw is always maintained — “He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw”, Luke 22: 41. He must always be pre-eminent.
CHH Do you think formation comes through suffering?
JT No doubt. Then the imperial colour accompanies suffering: “If we suffer, we shall also reign”. 2 Timothy 2:12. Purple was one of the colours in the tabernacle, so that I think the suffering of the present time corresponds to the reigning of the future.
MPM At the first meeting you said that these incidents in connection with the Lord were constructive.
JT I think it is very clear that they are. They correspond with our spiritual progress. If we are to be witnesses for Christ here we must be prepared for suffering, and then the question is, how am I going though, and this passage shows us how; first by prayer, and then as actually in it you reflect Christ. He prayed for His murderers; and we shall not be wanting in recompense as following in His steps, because I believe the repentant thief was the recompense the Lord got at that time.
SF Do you think sufferings would bring about moral state in us for the testimony, so that we should be able to hold our ground? It [p. 113] is the way the Lord Jesus has gone, and the apostle is an example.
LDB We do not want to miss that allusion to the thief; if you would mention it again.
JT It seems to me very beautiful, as fitting in here. The blessed Lord had just expressed the glory. The glory shines: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”. It was the glory of God that there was a Man capable of expressing that in the midst of the most terrible suffering. There was, I believe, a recompense; it is in the thief saying, “Lord, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom”. What joy it must have been to the Lord that there should be one in the midst of that awful situation who discerned the light that shone in Him! The light of the glory shone there, and the thief came in for it.
WJP Was that the gift of the Father?
JT Well, it seems as if it were — a sort of recompense. It must have come about rapidly, for we are told in another gospel that both thieves reviled Him. The light of the glory must have shone into His soul as to the Royal Personage who hung by his side. He had light as to the Person of the Lord — what He was as Man. “This man has done nothing amiss”. How did he know that? He could not know it historically. He knew it by light. It is by light we know things divinely. We do not know divine things by history, but by light; the light comes into the soul, and that settles everything.
WJP I thought that would be like the case of Peter — the revelation of God.
JT The light shone. I have no doubt it was the light that shone in Christ at that moment; the glory shone there.
LDB Alluding again to the recompense: the Lord, thinking of the Jews, says, “I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought”, Isaiah 49:4. But in the thief He gained something [p. 114] that would meet His heart — compensation when He lost so much in connection with Israel.
Ques Would that scripture apply, “Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies”, Psalm 23:51 Would it be the Father strengthening, as it were, the heart of His Beloved One in such circumstances?
JT It appears so. We can, I think, somewhat enter into the thought of the Lord — what it must have been to Him to have the thief with Him — “To-day”, He says, “shalt thou be with me in Paradise”. He would have a companion there.
JCS It lit up the dark surroundings for the Lord in the midst of suffering. The light that shone into the heart of the thief was a very great circumstance for the Lord in the midst of the darkness.
Ques Would you say that God does not allow one moment’s suffering unnecessarily? I was thinking of Paul and Silas. They prayed and sang praises to God. There was no murmuring, there was rejoicing; and His discipline, or whatever His dealings were, resulted in their answering to them.
JT Yes. Then they come in for bodily relief; in due time their very stripes were washed by the jailor.
RJW The jailor was affected by the spirit he saw in them. It says he “washed them from their stripes”, Acts 16:33.
JCS Going back to your thought as to this being constructive in view of the assembly down here, would it be right to speak of the assembly being the anointed vessel, and that the divine thought is that the light should now shine out through that suffering vessel?
JT I think that is the divine thought; so that a martyr is a witness. The idea of martyrdom is witness. To be a witness one suffers: but then the [p. 115] thing is to suffer like Christ, according to the anointing; the spirit of a suffering Christ.
LDB In speaking of the angel, as you have mentioned it, would it be right to connect it with the passage, “Thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns”, Psalm 22:21? I wondered whether there was interposition at that point.
JT The interposition of God for Christ was in resurrection. Christ was heard from the extreme point of suffering, Resurrection was the answer; and the next thing is, “I will declare thy name unto my brethren”. Psalm 22:22. He was raised by the glory of the Father. The answer there was not angelic; it was the direct intervention of the Father Himself.
EBMcC I was thinking of the last chapter of John. Peter there refers to John, saying, “And what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Follow thou me”, John 21:21,22. The work had been done with John. The Spirit had had His way with him.
JT I think the Lord intimates to Peter, ‘You are to be like Me at the end’. He says, “When thou wast young thou girdedst thyself, ... but when thou shalt be old ... another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not”, John 21:18. That is resignation — he would be in accord with Christ’s death.
EBMcC He was perfectly prepared for it.
JT Peter really wished for martyrdom, and the Lord says, ‘You are going to have it, and you are going to be like Me in it’.
DB As to the support of the Spirit and the way in which we take suffering, James says, “Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. Be patient therefore, brethren”. James 5:6,7.
JT The apostle says, “For thy sake we are killed all the day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter”. Romans [p. 116] 8:26.
EBMcC The apostles desired it; they rejoiced that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for the name of Christ.
JCS Paul actually rejoiced in it.
HLD It is referred to in Hebrews: they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword, they wandered about in sheep-skins and in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented (of whom the world was not worthy). They got the support of the Spirit, I think, but evidently the angel did not come in for them.