THE GROUND OF OUR GATHERING
[p. 302] THE GROUND OF OUR GATHERING
2 Timothy 2: 19 - 22; Matthew 18: 19 - 20
AH The suggestion before us in care was in view of the generation following, hoping that it would prove helpful and profitable to consider the ground of our gathering. These scriptures were suggested to provide what was necessary; if you can suggest any other, please do so.
JT This will suffice at the moment; other scriptures can be turned to later. Certainly this is a good epistle to begin with and particularly as it treats of “the firm foundation of God stands”. All will recall Job 38: 4 - 7, where it says, “Where wast thou when I founded the earth? ... When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” when God began thus in His creational ways, and what is in creation often reflects what He does in the assembly; so that the foundation is of the utmost importance; it is also spoken of in Matthew 16: 18 where Christ Himself is the foundation as confessed by Peter; but then in view of the great departure in the Christian profession, it is necessary to come back to Matthew to see how it is reconstructed with what the second epistle to Timothy presents. So Peter is brought in as well as Paul; Peter being especially in mind in connection with the foundation in Matthew 16.
AH Do you think therefore that the firm foundation of God links with what we have in Matthew 16?
JT I do. Paul enlarges the idea, but Peter had a revelation. It is said that the Lord had enquired who men said that He was, and Peter inspired by the Father said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God”; and the Lord said, “I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly”, so the foundation is clearly there and Peter is the material for the building.
AH Paul asserts it in 1 Corinthians 3: 11, “For other foundation can no man lay besides that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ”.
AM Is the “firm foundation of God” in contrast to overthrowing the faith of some, verse 18?
JT Yes, to assure the believer, in such an attack, that the firm foundation still stands; there is no need for the word “firm” unless to confirm faith.
Rem It is firm because it is God’s work, involving the revelation of the Father by the Son.
JT Yes, it is the revelation of God; it is God’s way of assuring us when any question arises.
FI We are gathered to something that cannot be moved. So is Matthew 18: 20 “gathered together unto my name”, connected with the foundation in chapter 16?
JT “Gathered together” is significant; we are not told who gathers them, the Spirit does and the Lord does; we are to discern that those mentioned are contemplated as “gathered” by some action, and “unto my name”, the Lord says, meaning they are gathered by motive; the motive being the name of the Lord.
Rem “The name of Jehovah is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe”.
JT Quite so.
FI Would you help us as to gathering to the name of the Lord, rather than to Himself personally?
JT During the faith period we are in, the Lord personally is absent. His name takes His place, and so becomes a strong tower; but here it is “unto” His name.
ESH Would it involve all His interests here, as treasured by the Spirit?
JT I would say it could be put in there; [p. 304] the only thing is whether it is not a local position and the name of the Lord the object, the Lord being there Himself locally not generally. I mean to say Matthew contemplates the church, that is the assembly, and if we link on with Paul, it is especially as in 1 Corinthians, the idea of the local position that is in mind; that is the assembly has taken on the plural form, that is the term “assemblies”, because at first the metropolitan thought prevailed, as we see in Acts 2: 47, though the actual word assembly is perhaps not in the original. The word is “added” that is “added daily those that were to be saved”; it is the metropolitan idea there not two assemblies; the plural word is not found till Acts 9: 31, and even there it is questionable. However the sub-divisional situation was inaugurated and the assemblies are viewed as in the plural after Paul was converted, they were “increased through the comfort of the Holy Spirit”. Later Paul and Barnabas went out in ministry, as in chapter 13, and formed assemblies in chapter 14, though we are not told how many; there was also the setting up of elders and deacons, shewing that the plural idea prevailed. The plural thought therefore continues till the assembly is gathered by the Lord. As to government, we have care-meetings tonight in many parts to remind us of government, that the assembly might stand as gathered.
PP Why so few as “two or three”, Matthew 18: 20?
JT To shew the idea, so essential, that two or three can maintain the principle as much as a hundred; a great advantage, they come in for as much privilege and support, the Lord Himself being there.
AH Was the Lord thinking of 2 Timothy days in the scripture in Matthew?
JT Yes, you mean in Matthew 18: 18, there is the possibility of a brother being refractory, and refusing to obey the assembly, and he is regarded as [p. 305] unfit for it, so it is said (verse 17), “But if he will not listen to them, tell it to the assembly; and if also he will not listen to the assembly, let him be to thee as one of the nations and a tax-gatherer”, and then (verse 18), “Verily I say to you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on the earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever ye shall loose on the earth shall be loosed in heaven”, He is giving authority to the assembly; and then in verse 19 there is another gracious thought, to bring it to a minimum, that it should be maintained if possible, even in two or three, and indicates what we have in 2 Timothy; a suggestion of reduction in numbers, of very great reduction in size and number of the assemblies. “Again I say to you, that if two of you shall agree on the earth concerning any matter, whatsoever it may be that they shall ask, it shall come to them from my Father who is in the heavens”; and then, “For where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them”. The Father answers the prayers of the minimum, the “two of you”, which means two of the assembly. It shews that the two secure the Father’s assent for whatever they want. Then in verse 20, we have the presence of Christ in the reduced company even with two, yet the mention of “or three” means that more are needed; this too is important; “in the midst of them” — the two or three. It brings the thought down to a very concrete application, a very real thing, that He will be in the midst of them; He intimates that what the two or three do, He will support, and so throughout Matthew we have it, even in the last chapter, “I am with you all the days, until the completion of the age”. He is not said to ascend in Matthew, though of course He actually did; had He not done so the Holy Spirit would not have come. “Every scripture is divinely inspired, and profitable for teaching”, so if one scripture or one [p. 306] gospel may not say it, another will; we must think over this carefully and prayerfully. It means the presence here of the Holy Spirit, and that is sufficient, and the assembly is here to represent Him too.
AH The absence of the truth of the ascension in Matthew establishes the truth that God has put His foot on the earth, in the assembly.
JT Yes, but Luke speaks of the ascension as early as chapter 9.
FI In the thought of the gathering together of two as the minimum, the thought of adding to make three involves exercise in them in view of increase.
JT Yes, I think so. The allusion is to the personnel of the assembly as of prime importance; the Father will do it to them.
ESH Is John 16: 23 wider and more universal?
JT Here perhaps it is more local, where they are; John 16 is more general.
Ques How would this link on with 1 Corinthians 1: 2, “with all that in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ”?
JT I am glad you brought that up. It is just the point what does the term “place” mean; it has come up lately as to a place being a community, especially in London, Sydney and so on. The word is calling “on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both theirs and ours”.
Ques Does Matthew 18 stand in relation to the principle of government in the assembly?
JT I think things may widen out from that; but “unto my name” must be local.
Ques Would they be brothers or might there be a sister as well?
JT They might be two sisters if you like!
Ques Is there the thought of meeting together?
JT It is unscriptural. In this scripture it is “gathered”.
Ques Would the thought of “every place” be seen in Luke 10: 1?
JT A very good scripture to bring up, let us read it, “Now after these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place where he himself was about to come”. So in Corinthians as we were saying, there has been exercise for the past twenty-five years or so as to what subdivisions may be required in places like London, how they are to be regarded, and how the truth of Matthew 18 is to be applied to them.
Ques In Matthew we have the nations gathered. Would there be any significance in the thought of gathering in relation to governmental separation of the sheep and the goats; it is the Lord’s matter there, but is there a principle in it? “all the nations shall be gathered before him; and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats”, Matthew 25: 32.
JT I suppose we should have to distinguish in our minds as to the word “gather” there, especially as to the government of nations, but in this we are dealing with a smallish city or place.
Ques Is it significant that in Acts 9: 32 it is Peter who establishes it?
JT Yes, good, we are nearing the time of Paul’s advent there; divine thoughts cast their shadows before. Peter is coming into what Paul was about to bring in, the moving away from the metropolitan thought, though the metropolitan thought is not bad unless it is extended too far. Peter was getting the idea of the assemblies here. But Paul brings in, in connection with the establishment of assemblies, the matter of eldership, setting up the local government in localities, not setting up metropolitanism. So in Acts 20, he called “the elders of the assembly” at Ephesus to him, a local matter; the idea as set up by [p. 308] Paul would involve the whole place in which they lived however many subdivisions there were (and they were called assemblies too); but eldership as brought in by Paul is to teach and to guide in every way, so as to maintain the local position.
ESH In Acts 9: 32 Peter is said to be “passing through all quarters”.
JT Very good; and Aeneas is told to make his couch for himself, that is those in the local assembly should make their own beds! They are not to write far afield for advice too much but to get their instruction from heaven.
JSE The Lord’s promise to be with them would be carried into 2 Timothy 2 as encouragement as to the ground of gathering, to be where Christ is present, and help us to hold on to things.
JT And to keep ourselves free from what is around us in the sphere of profession.
JSE So that the Matthew scripture is a lever in the soul, that the Lord will be in the midst, even in such conditions.
JT He is there with the twos and threes to deliver the brethren from the authorities in the town and the ecclesiastical dignitaries. The Lord would support them in their meetings and they would be conscious that the Lord was thus helping them.
JSE Yes, He prescribes for the smallest unit in the midst of what is so pretentious.
JT “My name” means power to them.
JSE The power of the world is in contrast to the name of the Lord.
PP In seeking a right church position I must find those who are faithful to the Lord.
JT The “two of you” carries through the thought of status in heaven; it is of the utmost importance; they are maintained in righteousness and dignity. He will not say what He will [p. 309] do.
Ques How do we come into this power?
JT It is “unto my name”; it is in the Name.
Ques Do you mean that it is His power that is available, or is it power in us like “because thou hast a little power”, Revelation 3: 8?
JT Yes, indeed; it is status in heaven, because Matthew is dealing with the heavens brought down to earth, so that the persons have distinction, not only because Christ is there “in the midst of them”, but there is something in them.
JSE Heaven ratifies what they do on earth.
JT I thought so. So in John 20: 23, where it is more spiritual and personal.
Ques Are we to see the unjealous interest of the angels in the administration of the assembly, Ephesians 3: 10?
JT Yes, indeed.
Ques Is heavenly status involved in “from my Father who is in the heavens”?
JT Yes, the whole gospel of Matthew depends on that, for instance in chapter 5: 48, the Lord says, “Be ye therefore perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”. Perfection is status up there; the Lord is thinking to augment what they can do; if all is well, He will praise them, He is there to help and encourage them.
Rem We are to do things, He will help us.
JT Yes, He loves us to do things. In Genesis 2: 19 and 20 the animals are brought to Adam; it was delightful to God as He heard His creature name the animals, and how much more now, for Matthew speaks of the greatest things in the universe. How much pleasure heaven has in hearing what is related by a brother or a sister, like Abigail, who is indeed a type of the assembly. The statement of scripture says it is so, the Lord says “that every matter may stand upon the word of two witnesses or of three” — Matthew 18: 16,
and the Lord says, “Now I praise you” (1 Corinthians 11: 2) even though He says it through Paul. But John speaks of the time of failure; he is a witness here of the Lord in judicial garments. He is in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, rightfully occupied; he is “your brother and fellow-partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and patience, in Jesus”, and he says, “I heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet”; the great voice is here in Matthew. When John looked round to see the voice, he saw “seven golden lamps”, which means the assembly divided into seven, and things are not too right, but he sees “one like the Son of man” in the midst of the seven lamps, just what we are speaking of; He is in other habiliments not as in Matthew 17, where He has garments “white as the light”, here He is “clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girt about at the breasts with a golden girdle”. Then John says, “And when I saw him I fell at his feet as dead”. We have now a situation where the Lord is inquiring into things; there is the wardrobe He has, and what garments He may have to put on if He appears to us. We may be having a wonderful time, but what garments has He on? Judicial or wedding garments, and we should have the same; like Josiah, in 2 Chronicles 34: 19, we may have to rend our garments.
AH He wears what is necessary.
Rem John was on the side of privilege, and he has to turn back; yet he is told not to fear.
JT The Son of man really has to do with judgment, not privilege.
ESH Is it possible at the Supper that the Lord would wear judicial garments if things were not suitable.
JT So Paul did in 1 Corinthians.
AM He said to them, “I do not praise”, 1 Corinthians 11:[p. 311] 17.
JT Yes, their behaviour was disgraceful; the Lord would have to wear His judicial garments.
FI Does 2 Timothy help us in facing the question whether we are fit for privilege and to have the Lord in the midst unless we have the moral conditions for it?
JT He might be there; and as Paul says, “What will ye? that I come to you with a rod; or in love, and in a spirit of meekness?” Also in 2 Timothy 2: 15 he says, “Strive diligently to present thyself approved to God, a workman that has not to be ashamed, cutting in a straight line the word of truth”. So he shews resentment at the state of things; if necessary he will put on other garments, for there is great wickedness going on in Christendom, but the truth is not overthrown, and “the firm foundation of God stands”. Every Christian is known by the Lord, and though some may not be quite right, He will get them right, as Revelation shews Him dealing with what is wrong, whatever it is. We have to withdraw from iniquity, and from wooden and earthen vessels, vessels to dishonour, and be vessels “to honour, sanctified, serviceable to the Master, prepared for every good work”. This must all be in our minds. “If therefore one shall have purified himself from these in separating himself from them, he shall be a vessel to honour” means learning separation from the Christian profession.
Rem So Philadelphia is said to have “a little power”.
JT That agrees with what we have here.
Ques Does a vessel imply something that is to be filled?
JT Just so; “But in a great house there are not only gold and silver vessels, but also wooden and earthen; and some to honour, and some to dishonour”. The allusion is to a furnished house, some [p. 312] things are made of gold, and some of silver; some of wood, and some of earth; “some to honour, and some to dishonour”; it is very plain, and applies to the profession of Christendom; all the vessels are there; the point is those who separate themselves from certain ones, those who learn how to do it.
Rem So not only the conditions of service, but the actual bondmen are needed here and in Matthew 18: 23.
JT Quite so; and the Lord says of Paul, “this man is an elect vessel to me”. And what a model he was!
CG A vessel can be filled, and also carried about.
JT The Samaritan woman is as good an example of that as any. She left her waterpot, for she had been helped in her soul.
CG She became a vessel that carried the truth to the men.
JT Quite so.
AH These are very rich chapters of faithful men, good soldiers and bondmen.
JT Very good.
Rem Each is to do it for himself.
JT This epistle is written to an individual, not to a company.