ADMINISTRATION AS CONNECTED WITH THE LORD'S SUPPER
ADMINISTRATION AS CONNECTED WITH THE LORD’S SUPPER
JT The verse which has been read in Luke was in mind as calling attention to administration in connection with the Lord’s Supper, and then we shall see in John 20 how the feminine side is opened up as the Lord is known as risen, with a view to the assembly femininely, referring particularly to Revelation 21 where she is seen coming down as a bride adorned for her husband. She comes out of heaven. The incident read in Luke is found also in Matthew and Mark. Matthew 26: 20 says “When the evening was come he lay down at table with the twelve”; Mark 14: 17 mentions that “He comes with the twelve”. Then Luke 22: 14 “When the hour was come, he placed himself at table, and the twelve apostles with him”. The three synoptic gospels referring thus to the twelve has a voice as to administration, seen particularly in Matthew and Mark, and then Luke adding the thought of authority in the administration, the apostles being mentioned. These passages would show that administration enters into the Lord’s Supper, not particularly, however, at the time of the celebration of it, although it must be there too, but as entering into the general constitution of the assembly. Peter being appointed by our Lord as having the keys of the kingdom, and the allusions to what heaven endorses in apostolic service refer to it. John 20 speaks of the Lord breathing into the disciples and saying to them “Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained”. Heaven is brought in in Matthew. “Whatsoever ye shall bind on the earth shall be bound in heaven”. Hence the idea being linked up with heaven suggests [p. 80] the continuance of the assembly in character to the end, for heaven has not changed its mind because of any failure. Especially is this so in Matthew where this is seen in the answer to any two who pray as united, any two of the assembly — things are done for them, as it says, “It shall be done for them”. Although we have the sisters in all the gospels at the resurrection, the feminine side is seen in John’s gospel particularly. The Lord had said in Matthew that they would see Him in Galilee. He sent a message of that kind to them. But in John it is a teaching message although the gift of teaching is not implied, but the teaching is there, involving the family. The feminine side of things would enter into the message, and involves that it is carried down and comes out in the heavenly city.
PHH When you speak of administration in regard of the earlier scriptures, have you in mind that certain things are handed down to us right to the end and with authority?
JT Yes, I think that is important to keep in mind because the Lord sees to that, and then as a feminine element he would maintain that, and the epistles, especially Paul’s epistles, as well as the Acts, show that the feminine element was carried down. It began at the resurrection and is formally linked up, according to the passage read, with Christ risen. So in Acts 1 where we have the apostles — that is all that remained in the upper room — we have Mary there, “several women, and Mary the mother of Jesus”. And throughout we have the feminine side, as if it were not simply in a general way meeting conditions as they arose, but the primary thought of God as to the assembly. He had in mind that it should come out in a feminine way as we learn in Revelation 21 verses 1 and 2 — “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed [p. 81] away, and the sea exists no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband”. This is not simply a millennial scene; it is an eternal scene, answering to the primary mind and counsels of God, that the feminine idea should be linked up in a great system in the heavens which should abide.
Ques Would the administrative side be seen in the next reference to the city in Revelation 21: 9. “Come here, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife”. Is that an administrative idea?
JT I think so, although connected with the millennial scene, which is important too, because the types support it. Rebecca was brought into Sarah’s tent and she appears as a type of the heavenly city. She had a part in Sarah’s tent, and would be thus formed in relation to God’s purposes as to Israel. The millennium, of course, is marked by that. The number twelve appears in connection with the gates of the city, as we have in the 12th verse “having a great and high wall; having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names inscribed, which are those [p. 82] of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel”. That would be the city viewed in its millennial relations. But the first reference to the city in Revelation 21 would correspond with the history of God’s counsels and would be found in measure in the book of Proverbs, which shows that it is a question of men. Wisdom’s delights are with the sons of men. In the historical order of God’s counsels, (the word ‘historical’ calls for the beginning) the twelve tribes of Israel are not there. They come in as an after-thought, so to speak, and evidently not to continue eternally. But there must be something which is to have influence on us now in the interim between the appearing of the twelve tribes in the 29th of Genesis and the appearing of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel in the heavenly city as connected with the millennium. There must be something for us now in the stress as to twelve, entering into the historic number, that is, entering into Christianity.
HB What part, then, does the feminine side have in the administration of the assembly today, and how does it work out?
JT Well, I think in the mind of God it works out in a modified sense. It softens the masculine side. This appears too in the history of the nations. The idea of the feminine in government runs right through many nations. It is seen in Israel “upon thy right hand doth stand the queen in gold of Ophir”, and in many instances we find it in the history or government of the world as Israel is set aside. The feminine is carried down as in Esther.
SG I was going to ask you about Psalm 45 which is entitled “A song of the Beloved”. “King’s daughters are among thine honourable women; upon thy right hand doth stand the queen in gold of Ophir”. Does that fit in?
JT She is seen there in connection with Christ as the Messiah — on His right hand doth stand the queen; but later in the psalm the feminine side is seen in “daughters”. The psalm supports the idea of the influence of a softening element which God intended should be in government. The thought of dominion was seen in Adam and Eve and that is carried through.
MAW Is it seen in the case of the prophet Nehemiah where he approaches the king, and it says, “The queen also sitting by him”, Nehemiah 2: 6?
JT That is an illustration of the matter. The queen was there. She says nothing but it was important in Nehemiah’s eyes anyway. It was a critical time for him — for Israel, as to how matters [p. 83] would stand. Things were hanging in the balance, and the balance was turned in favour of Israel, and so it was in the case of Esther.
PHH If I understand you rightly, you say the feminine introduces the suffering side in the interim; it would also appear in Genesis 1 and Revelation 21 connected with God’s counsels and His eternal purpose. The suffering side having done its work, is that it?
JT I think it is important to carry down the feminine side from the outset. The idea of the twelve tribes of Israel is not at the outset, coming in later and finishing earlier than eternity, but the feminine side runs through.
Rem Do you mean that what is administrative is in fact provisional to meet conditions as they may exist, whereas the feminine side was primarily with God and all administration has in view leaving that clear for the woman to appear as with Christ according to the divine counsels.
JT Hence the service of the assembly in the millennial day is clearly modified, although we have an allusion to so many cities yet the assembly is feminine as related to Christ; the bride arose by herself, as we see in the book of Proverbs; she arose in the absence of her husband, but of course the millennial day does not suppose the absence of Christ, but the present day does.
PHH Would the millennial day be on the principle of His fulness as verse 22 of Ephesians 1, God “gave him to be head over all things to the assembly, which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all”. Would it be right to connect the assembly there with Christ’s fulness?
JT I would think so. The allusion is to the woman’s place in relation to the man primarily. That is much in view in Ephesians, meaning too that it is an [p. 84] eternal thought.
JM Does administration cease with the millennium?
JT Well, I do not know. It is a question as to whether the idea may not continue. Perhaps if we were more accustomed to spiritual things and spiritual conditions we should understand what is said of the Lord — “Then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him who put all things in subjection to him, that God may be all in all”, 1 Corinthians 15: 28. Whether administrative conditions are found there would probably be understood more clearly if we were more spiritual, but I would suggest they are, that they will go through, because the idea of administration existed in the government of the universe before sin came into it.
Ques Had you that in mind in calling attention to verse 2 of Revelation 21:2, the fact that the city is seen in the eternal day?
JT Just so. The very term ‘city’ indicates administration.
JnoG What is the value of the modifying feminine element in the administration?
JT I think we may say it appears constantly amongst us, and hence the reference in 1 Corinthians, “Let them ask their husbands at home”. That conveys that administrative matters are to be understood by the sisters.
AB Is the modifying element seen especially in Abigail in restraining David? He could say, “Blessed be thy discernment, and blessed be thou”, 1 Samuel 25:33.
JT Very good. She is especially a type of the assembly.
Rem You were thinking of the feminine element as entering constitutionally into the assembly as such, not only as the sisterly element?
JT I think of the assembly as representing it;
and so the Lord’s early communications to the disciples after He arose would have in mind that they would enter into the feminine side because the whole assembly is feminine as we see in Revelation 21 — “I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea exists no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of the heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband”. It is a feminine thought.
SG Does the grace that dominates administration in this present period emphasise the feminine side?
JT I think it would. If there be that modification that is needed, it is a question of whether the brothers take it on. It reduces the hardness which often appears in the brothers, when the wives modify the husbands. They may, of course, at times do the very opposite, but we are speaking now generally of the power of modification in government — how it softens. The case mentioned in Nehemiah clearly supports it, because the Persian queen appeared in Nehemiah’s time — the queen also is sitting by; she said nothing, but she is there; and so the “queen in gold of Ophir” is there. It is a complete idea. The daughters are subordinate to that, but the queen is the complete thought.
MAW Would you say it is important that the women are mentioned in Acts 16, especially Lydia, the one who was affected by Paul’s word?
JT Very good. See what modification was there. The epistle to the Philippians has this thread running through it. The apostle alludes there to “those women” also. We see it too particularly in Lydia by herself as over against the man of Macedonia — the man and the woman.
SG You mean Lydia would balance the jailor?
JT She would. He was evidently a hard man [p. 86] but he became softened. We cannot say Lydia effected that but the whole position is the point to get at, to see what enters into the position at Philippi: the feminine side in it must surely bear on what we are dealing with now, what is going to come out of heaven.
Rem Is it remarkable that the exhortation in Philippians has two sisters specially in view, Philippians 4: 2?
JT They were to be of one mind in the Lord. It is very important that the sisters should be of one mind.
HB Would what you have been drawing attention to underline what the apostle writes to Timothy as to the overseer being the husband of one wife?
JT I think that is good. That may often be questioned — why should he be the husband of one wife, and why a woman put on the list should be the wife of one husband. Well, it would seem that polygamy as in the East would be inimical to church development, whereas one man and one woman in marital relations as in the Western world is representative of church relations. We see it exemplified in Aquila and Priscilla. Polygamy must have worked against the truth of the Church and so as we have often noticed, we have very little result in the gospel in Asia, especially in Eastern Asia.
Ques I was going to ask in relation to Prisca and Aquila as mentioned in Romans, Prisca taking precedence, but mentioned as “my fellow-workmen in Christ Jesus, (who for my life staked their own neck; to whom not I only am thankful, but also all the assemblies of the nations) and the assembly at their house”. Romans 16: 3 - 5. Is that the balanced thought you have in mind — their house?
JT Just so. It is one of the most interesting points you get in the scriptures. I think one is mentioned first the same number of times as the other.
Ques Would Paul’s word in Corinthians help — 1 Corinthians 11, verse 11? “However, neither is woman without man, nor man without woman, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, so also is the man by the woman, but all things of God”. — the masculine and the feminine being balanced. Do you think there is a tendency to stress one or the other at any time, whereas the matter is to be balanced?
JT Well, that is what I was thinking at the beginning, and we have got onto that side largely in this reading but we have to move on to the reference in. John 20, which I believe is what we need to understand most. Man and woman appear in that chapter in such a remarkable way, and a woman of such a history too. It is acknowledged what her history had been, and now she is taken on to carry a message to the apostles, and is already saying that the Lord is “Rabboni”, meaning “My Teacher”. That was, as it were, her name of Him. It would mean that femininely the assembly is viewed as taught. We see it too in Proverbs in the virtuous woman — “Who can find a woman of worth? for her price is far above rubies”. And then it delineates what a person she was. She is an ideal person, especially administratively. Her husband is known in the gates. The brethren no doubt have noticed the peculiar composition of that last chapter of Proverbs, how the original text in Hebrew is employed in a remarkable way to work out the history like an embroidery. We get in too in the Psalms. Things are worked out in words to delineate this great person, who was so hard to find, but the passage implies she was findable, because she is so perfectly portrayed by the writer.
WHT Is it not remarkable that she is characterised as one who surveyeth the ways of her household and eateth not the bread of idleness, Proverbs 31:[p. 88] 27?
JT Every line in that chapter seems to be pure gold, and undoubtedly it applies to the assembly.
JnoG It says “She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and upon her tongue is the law of kindness”, Proverbs 31: 26. That law evidently would modify if it were in evidence.
JT Quite so.
PHH Do you think that is why the Lord during recent years has raised the question of marital affections in the assembly, not merely in relation to the general administration which would work out in grace, as you say, but also in regard of such times as the Lord’s Supper. Is it that the Lord will not end up His affairs without this expression?
JT Well it is part of the truth, especially the truth of the assembly, and we have already, I think, quoted in these readings several times that the Lord says of the Spirit that “he shall guide you into all the truth”. I believe that is the point, the whole range of truth is to be worked out in the assembly before she goes up. That is the great ministry of the Spirit. The woman in John’s second epistle — “the elect lady” she is called, “and her children, whom I love in truth, and not I only but also all who have known the truth, for the truth’s sake which abides in us and shall be with us to eternity”, — this elect lady is noticeable as coming in, in John, who, as we have often remarked, is to go on to the end, as the Lord’s own words indicate “If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?” In John’s ministry the Lord provides for the assembly right to the end, and undoubtedly Mary Magdalene is one of the types used. She is seemly and moves according to circumstances but moves towards the truth — towards Christ; she first names Him “Rabboni”, and then she is given to understand that she is not to touch Him, meaning that the Jewish element is not to be linked up with Christ in the heavenly land, “Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren ...” She is detached in her mind from the whole system of earth, because that is implied, I believe, in the fact that before He sends the message He says “Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father ...” He is now ascended to His Father and the assembly is formed while He is ascended to His Father. Mary Magdalene represents ministry such as the Lord has given to brethren for a long time to form the feminine side, so that the heart of Christ should be ministered to.
I think anyone who follows the gospels can see that John is intended for the last days. In John 20 the door is shut and everything is perfect in that chapter so far as the Lord’s visit to the upper room is concerned, whereas Luke indicates there were imperfections when the Lord came in. In fact, Luke would not say that the Lord came in; he would imply He was always there. “He stood in the midst”. Luke does not say He came and stood, whereas John does. John says “When therefore it was evening” (notice the time of the day) “on that day, which was the first day of the week ...” The first day is mentioned again here. It is mentioned more frequently in John than in the other gospels, and there can be no doubt that it is the first day not, simply the day after the sabbath, but the first day, the doors being shut, “Jesus came and stood in the midst, and says to them, Peace be to you”. There is no fear or perturbation there. Things are just normal. That is the abstract view which God is entitled to present to us. The abstract view is what goes through, everything else has to go.
WHT If it is not diverting you, I was going to ask should we not be concerned about reading John’s epistles more than is done?
JT Well, I think you are entitled to say that,
[p. 90] and in what we have already said about reading — “Give thyself to reading” — John’s writings are especially in mind. He says that the world itself would not contain the books, meaning that there was much to instruct the minds of the brethren, because books are for that purpose. The Lord’s Supper, as a matter of fact, to start with, is not for our hearts but for our minds. It is calling Him to mind. John has in mind that we should read. So to revert again to the elect lady — she is so honoured by the apostle: “The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not I only but also all who have known the truth, for the truth’s sake which abides in us and shall be with us to eternity”. Peter says “She that is elected with you in Babylon salutes you”, 1 Peter 5: 13. That is another reference of the apostle Peter which would correspond. Paul’s reference to Phoebe is a corresponding thought too. How respectful he is in speaking of her, as if God would lift up sisters when there is dignity there and comeliness and all that God approves as corresponding with the assembly. God would lift that up and make it to shine among the brethren.
GHP Would verses 10 and 11, in regard to one coming and bringing not the doctrine, indicate that this modifying principle as represented by the feminine side is not incompatible with the maintenance of divine principles?
JT Quite so. The maintenance of discipline. “If anyone come to you and bring not this doctrine, do not receive him into the house”, that is the very opposite to Lydia — “If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and abide there”. But this man is refused.
MAW Why does John write as an elder and not as an apostle?
JT Well, that would go with his way, I think.
[p. 91] He was an elderly man, I suppose. Ultimately the brethren began to know he was an elderly man. History tells us he was very old. Paul calls himself old but he was much younger. John, I think, would have advanced actually to a great age and must have become endeared to the brethren for he retained his dignity and power throughout.
SB “Little children” and “whom I love” would be linked together.
JT Well, just so. John speaks of them in the first epistle too; he calls the disciples (the persons to whom he wrote) “children” two or three times, but he speaks of them as in the sense of full-grown children, and in the first chapter of his gospel he refers to believers having the title to take the place of children of God.
Ques Is John using the term “elder” in the sense of maturity rather than what is official?
JT Quite so, and how the children, young Christians, would be influenced by him! They would become known to him, as an apostle who endeared himself. We read of the millennial day that old men and old women will be sitting in the streets and the children playing, in Jerusalem, as if there was a beautiful link between them. There is no doubt that John uses the word “elder” from that point of view.
PHH The character of the elect lady seems to set John free to give this message to the saints. He changes from a personal address to her to saying “ye” and “you”; would that be more on the line of responsibility with regard to the truth and fellowship?
JT Well, it is a remarkable change, and possibly all these references would be over against the wicked woman, Jezebel.
Ques Is she presented in a way as equal to John. He says “And now I beseech thee, lady, not as writing to thee a new commandment, but that which [p. 92] we have had from the beginning, that we should love one another”, 2 John verse 5. Is she in that way honoured as he is not writing to her as one who is inferior?
JT Quite so.
Ques Would John himself be helpful in this matter? — the Lord commits His mother to him?
JT Quite so. It is a remarkable incident because she was the Lord’s mother until that moment; He tells His mother to behold John, and He says to John “Behold thy mother. And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home”, which I think fully endorses what we are saying. What a man he was!
EB Do we also see this principle of modification in Abraham, in regard to the visitation of Divine Persons? He hastened into the tent to Sarah.
JT Yes. She did not come up to Abraham, however, but still was recognised. Her cakes did not appear on the table, but still she is there, and she is there in relation to Christ, in relation to Isaac.
Rem She arrives ultimately, anyway. She may have missed a little at the time, but she arrives at the place later.
JT She is a model for us and rises to a type of the assembly in Galatians 4: 26 — “Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother”. That refers to the assembly.
PHH May I ask you to revert for a moment to John 20 and the exalted character of the message that the Lord gives to Mary. Would it be right to say that what she represents in the saints justifies the Lord in giving such an exalted message?
JT It may be that is the secret of what we are having. It is not to make any reflection on earlier ministry, but going back twenty-five or thirty years, the Lord has, I believe, taken account of the features [p. 93] of the assembly coming out in the brethren. During this period we have had the truth as to the Lord’s Supper stressed, also the collection, and the order of the service of God. All that has come out, and I believe God has taken account of it and He is giving us more and will give more. There is no limit to what may be given, although there is the idea of the completion of the word of God, but there is no limit to what the Lord Jesus may say to us as His assembly, if we hold on to assembly qualities, feminine qualities, sisters, of course, literally so, holding on to their places in the family as wives and mothers usable to the Lord, and the husbands modified by them and accepting modifications as Abraham did, for he was modified by his wife. Jehovah says “In all that Sarah hath said to thee hearken to her voice”. It is a principle for the husband; and if we proceed on those lines we shall get more, for the Spirit is here for that very purpose, to guide us into all the truth.
SR Might the suggestion as to hearkening to sisters be applied in relation to matters of care?
JT I would think so, as the brothers take the sisters into their confidence and talk over things. So that the care meeting should be tentative because the care meeting has no authority — it is a tentative matter throughout and the brothers need sometimes to be reminded of that, and the sisters ought to be able to remind them of that.
SG Do you think that the feelings and impressions of the sisters should have a bearing on the deliberations of the brothers?
JT Well, they should, I am sure. I have had great help on these lines and no doubt every brother here would say the same. It is for us to pursue these lines, and increase in them more and more as the scripture says.
Ques When you say that the brothers take the [p. 94] sisters into their confidence, you have not in mind I suppose, a formal announcement of what has taken place at the care meeting, but rather what takes place in the home on the ground of enquiry?
JT I only heard recently that in some places a formal resume of the care meeting is given. I am sorry to hear that for I do not think it is right. I think the idea is for the husband to tell the thing; as it says, “let them ask their own husbands”.
Ques Because of the necessity of the sisters being taken into confidence as has been said, you do not think that it would be wise to ask the saints to remain behind after the meeting for prayer and details of the care meeting be given publicly?
JT No, details ought to be given by the husband to the wife at home.