DIVINE NAMES (6)
[p. 263] DIVINE NAMES (6)
Exodus 3:11 - 15; Exodus 6:2 - 5; Revelation 1:8
JT It is thought that we should consider Jehovah at this time. Our general subject, as is known, is Divine Names. We considered ‘God Almighty’ this afternoon.
From the passages read in Exodus we will see that Jehovah is a special name taken with Israel. God Almighty was a name taken especially with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, so that we are now in the realm of revelation. How the name Elohim or God as used in Genesis 1:1 came into currency is not stated in Scripture. It is used in that verse of course, but it was evidently already in use. But these names ‘God Almighty’ and ‘Jehovah’ are special, involving revelation, God making Himself known to His people in a special way, and that indicated in the appellation used. This prepares us for what runs through Scripture, the idea of revelation, and finally in the Lord Jesus’ own remarks that the Father is revealed by Him and that no one knows the Son but the Father.
So that it will be necessary for us to pay close attention to what is said about this name. The footnote tells us that as a memorial it is mentioned in Psalm 30, Psalm 97, Psalm 102, Psalm 135, Isaiah 26, and Hosea 12. These passages give significance to this name in a peculiar way because in each of them we have a special feature which we may be able to look at later in the meeting. Indeed there is a certain mystery attaching to this great name. We have an abbreviation of it in the name Jah, first used in Exodus 15. It bears out what has been remarked as to the mysterious character of the name, involving, we may say, the absoluteness of God. But before we have the name of Jehovah formally stated, we have these remarks by Himself in Exodus 3:14,15: “And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. And he said, Thus shalt [p. 264] thou say unto the children [p. 268] of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you. And God said moreover to Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: Jehovah, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you. This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations”. So that the name ‘Jehovah’ carried I AM with it. I AM is the root of it and it is His memorial as seen in those passages we have alluded to.
JS Do you think it is because of special circumstances that this name is introduced?
JT It has in mind that God is entering into covenant with His people and delivering them. As taking them out of the world they are to be His people and He is to be their God and He is to dwell among them, so that He holds back nothing from them so far as it applies to them. He would have them to understand that He is disclosing Himself in His secret Being, which always ought to touch us.
JS I was thinking more particularly about the severe circumstances in which they were under Pharaoh.
JT That, of course, enters into it, but the ultimate end that God was about to reach was that He would dwell with them. It would be salvation, of course, from Pharaoh and Egypt, but then He said He would dwell with them; He would bring them out of their affliction in Egypt “unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey”, Exodus 3:17. And He goes on to say, “And thou shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and ye shall say unto him, Jehovah, the God of the Hebrews, hath met with us, and now, let us go, we pray thee, three days’ journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to Jehovah our God”, Exodus 3:18. He had that in mind, and later says that He would dwell among them. The name ‘Jehovah’ really has more to do with subsequent circumstances. The almightiness of God entered into the deliverance out of Egypt which we considered this afternoon, but ‘Jehovah’ is a name to be carried forward in a special way as these passages show.
CAM Would you say another word about revelation, as to when revelation really commenced? If I understood you rightly, the meaning of the name of God as in Genesis 1 was not exactly disclosed; but is it right to think that these other names open up the attributes of God?
JT Yes, only some of the attributes are stressed. The attribute of power is stressed in the name ‘God Almighty’, as we had it this afternoon; but when you come to ‘Jehovah’ it is the Being Himself, I AM. The root really implies ‘to exist’. That is His name, that He exists eternally. “THAT I AM” goes further, implying what He is without stating it, but it would come out in effect.
FHL Is that the name of John 8?
JT Yes, “Before Abraham was, I am”, John 8:58. The Lord uses the past tense in regard of Abraham but the present as to Himself. He does not say. Before Abraham is, I am. It is “Before Abraham was, I am”. It is eternal existence. That is the root of the title ‘Jehovah’. So that Israel was brought into very intimate relations with God and that, I think, is what we might keep in our minds because of the references to it in the Psalms: Psalm 30; Psalm 97; Psalm 102; Psalm 135; Isaiah 26, and Hosea 12. God is carrying the thought on in the sense of a memorial; it is Himself, not simply attributes, but Himself.
WB-w Does I AM refer more to His Deity, and what is inscrutable, whereas ‘Jehovah’ has to do with revelation? It has a system in view?
JT Well, as remarked, Jehovah seems to convey God Himself — His essential Being. It is said to be difficult to determine even the pronunciation of it. It is [p. 266] a peculiar formation; and it is further alleged that the ancient Jews did not even pronounce it. Whether that has any moral value or not, it in some way indicates inscrutability and secrecy or mystery about it that is properly attached to the Being of God. So that Paul says, “And confessedly the mystery of piety is great. God has been manifested in flesh, has been justified in the Spirit, has appeared to angels, has been preached among the nations, has been believed on in the world, has been received up in glory”, 1 Timothy 3:16. There is something about God, and we ought to cherish it, that does not belong to the natural mind at all. It is outside that range.
JS Is ‘Jehovah’ His covenant name?
JT That is what you get here. There was a covenant attaching to ‘Almighty’ too according to what we had this afternoon, but ‘Jehovah’ is characteristically the covenant name of God with Israel, and hence it is carried through the Psalms and the prophets as a memorial, as the Lord’s supper is carried through as a memorial of Christ in our dispensation.
WB-w Why does the Spirit of God emphasise the ‘I AM’ before ‘Jehovah’ in this chapter?
JT I think it is just because of what we have remarked. It is a question of the Being, God’s essential Being, that He exists. There is no beginning or end to Him.
WB-w It must cover Deity then.
JT It does cover Deity so far as it is seen in the Old Testament.
Ques Is the great servant Moses being adjusted in his own mind as to who God is, both as to His absoluteness and in His relation to His people Israel?
JT Well, you can see that he was a fit subject for it. It is when we are ready for things that we get them. Moses was now eighty years of age, and had gone through much. He had been in Pharaoh’s house and he [p. 267] was under proscription by Pharaoh and had to flee the country. He was forty years in a humble way in Midian subject to the will of God, because the Spirit says, he “was content to dwell with the man”, Exodus 2:21. He was not complaining in the circumstances. Moreover, “he sat by the well”, Exodus 2:15. He was trusting to something outside of himself, typically the Holy Spirit. He cared for the sheep of his father-in-law uncomplainingly; and as he led them to the back side of the desert God took occasion to reveal Himself to him. Moses turned aside to see and God called him by name twice, showing he was now ready for such honour as to have a revelation made to him.
AR ‘I AM’ goes beyond time. ‘Elohim’, I suppose, comes into the creation, and ‘Almighty’ in relation to His power, but ‘I AM’ goes back beyond Genesis 1.
JT Quite so, there is no beginning to it at all. It is eternal existence, always present. You get it in The Revelation, that is why I suggested Revelation 1:8. It is “he who is”, first, and then, “and who was”, and then, “and who is to come”, I AM is eternal existence. There is no historical tense at all.
AR “In the beginning God” is relative, is it? Whereas this is not relative.
JT It is mentioned as over against persons who are limited by creature conditions, that God has no such conditions. It is the nearest, I think, you can get to absoluteness. Eternal existence is really what is meant by ‘I AM’, it is existence eternally.
FNW Does worship of God as revealed lead us to the final point of worshipping Him in His absoluteness?
JT Well, so far as you can take the thought in. It is a question whether any creature can. This is as near as you can get it to. It seems to me that properly absoluteness can only be apprehended by a divine Person.
RWS Does “I AM THAT I AM”, Exodus 3:14, differ from “I AM”? “Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you”, Exodus 3:14. Is that the same?
JT “I AM THAT I AM” includes what He is, as remarked. It implies addition to eternal existence; but the general thought is “I AM hath sent me”. It means that the eternally existing One had sent him. So ‘Eternal’ is used for ‘Jehovah’ in the French translation of the bible which is good enough, only that Jehovah carries more than that, as Exodus 34:5 - 7 shows.
CAM I think that God using such an expression as I AM THAT I AM would confirm just what you have been saying. Although He is absolute, we can only think of Him in a relative way.
JT We are relative; we cannot be anything else. We are creatures. No doubt many of us do not follow the difference between the absolute and the relative; but it is well to consider it and see if we can arrive at the thought. The word ‘absolute’ means several things, but it means this: that you are not related to any thing or person at all. That could only refer to God, because everybody else is relative to someone or something. God has now come into the creation and is relative to all, but still He can retire out of that, being God.
CAM The first three words of the gospel of John, “In the beginning” show that One who is absolute is coming into a relative position, otherwise we could never apprehend Him.
JT Quite so. “In the beginning was the Word ...” That means He was there in the beginning of the creation. The ‘was’ goes further back; it goes back, before there was any creation at all.
APT How do you look at “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and to the ages to come”, Hebrews 13:8, in relation to this great matter of I AM?
JT The allusion is to this, only it is more limited, because it is “yesterday, and today, and to the ages to come”. The terms are [p. 269] more limited.
FSC How is it in Deuteronomy 32:39, it says, “I am HE”.
JT You have ‘He’ there.
FSC The footnote says it is the same word as “the Same”.
JT That is, a known Person. That runs through the Scripture too; as David says, “Thou art that God”. “I am HE” is a known Person, but unchangeable; but here God is making Himself known to Moses, as eternally existent, and Moses has come in that name. You can see that all this (because the ministry of Moses among the people is involved) is to arouse spirituality. It is no longer a question of the attributes of God as the Almighty, but Himself so far as He could be known; and hence the mystery attaching to it, and the reverence and the sense of fear even to name the Name. A man “blasphemed the Name”, that referred to this Name.
ARS When the Lord was here He was asked the question: “Who art thou?” John 8:25. He says, “Altogether that which I also say to you”. Is that the same idea as I AM?
JT That would be what He said, what He disclosed in His ministry. But as to His Person abstractedly, no one knows the Son, but the Father. His service was not to reveal Himself but the Father.
WB-w He says, “I am he”, and “they went away backward and fell to the ground”, John 18:6. It is ‘I am’ literally. Does that refer to His Deity?
JT I think it does. In chapter 8 you have it twice: “for unless ye shall believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins”, John 8:24. And later He says, “Before Abraham was, I am”, John 8:58. All refers to His eternal existence, His Deity.
Ques Do you connect this scripture with Matthew 16? Peter’s confession, and Moses’ confession before the people?
JT It was revelation in both cases. When Moses [p. 270] came among the elders with Aaron the ministry would be striking. He had a revelation. He had light in his soul that no one had before. And so it was with Peter; his confession conveyed a revelation from the Father.
FHL Would Psalm 90 be an answer to this? “... even from eternity to eternity thou art God”, Psalm 90:2. And then at the close it says, “And let the beauty of Jehovah our God be upon us; and establish thou the work of our hands upon us: yea, the work of our hands, establish thou it”, Psalm 90:17.
JT Just so. “... from eternity to eternity thou art God”. The psalm brings Him into time. “Lord, thou hast been our dwelling-place in all generations”, Psalm 90:1, That was what Moses had in his soul. It is important to understand what Moses had in his soul when he came to minister. What power he has as under the influence of God revealed to him as ‘I AM’!
ABP The Lord referred to this scripture to substantiate the truth of resurrection. Would that enter into our consideration tonight?
JT I think it would; it is “the section of the bush”.
ABP “God is not God of the dead, but of the living”, Matthew 22:32. I wondered if that would be like an unfolding of the Name too?
JT Well, I suppose it would; He is the God of the living. Himself the living God. “I lift up my hand to the heavens, and say, I live forever!” Deuteronomy 32:40.
AR Moses had in mind a ministry to deliver the saints really. What he was going over with God was the question of their leaving Egypt. How would this work out as he went in among the people? God had in mind to take the people out of Egypt, and yet He had this great thought in His mind as a background for service.
JT Yes. It is said in the end of chapter 4, “And Jehovah said to Aaron, Go into the wilderness to meet Moses”, Exodus 4:27. And in verse 28: “And Moses told [p. 271] Aaron all the words of Jehovah who had sent him ... And Moses and Aaron went and gathered all the elders of the children of Israel; and Aaron spoke all the words that Jehovah had spoken to Moses ... And the people believed. And when they heard that Jehovah had visited the children of Israel, and that he had seen their affliction, then they bowed their heads and worshipped”, Exodus 4:31. That is how the truth works out; the people believed and they worshipped, showing the power of the ministry.
ABP Would not this Name involve more than their deliverance from Egypt? Does it not involve their complete eternal place in relation to God? God would have in mind a committal that would bring man in eternal relationship with Himself.
JT Yes. Our brother was calling attention to the fact that the people of Israel were about to be delivered from the circumstances they were in; but the name Jehovah goes beyond that. But these references that we have alluded to in the Psalms and prophets show that this Name enters into the most spiritual thoughts of the people. At this juncture it might be well to look at them, so as to stir our affections. Psalm 30:4, “Sing psalms unto Jehovah, ye saints of his, and give thanks in remembrance of his holiness” — or as the margin reads, ‘celebrate his holy memorial’ i.e. ‘his holy name: see Exodus 3:15’. That is one thing, and I think the brethren will see the best spiritual thoughts in Israel were there. It is a dedication-song of the house. Then, Psalm 97:12: “Rejoice in Jehovah, ye righteous; and give thanks in remembrance of his holiness”. Again you will see a notation: ‘See Exodus 3:15. Holiness here is “Kodesh” as Psalm 30:4’. Psalm 102:12: “But thou, Jehovah, abidest for ever, and thy memorial from generation to generation”. They are now engaged with the eternity of God.
JS Psalm 68:4 too: “Sing unto God, sing forth [p. 272] his name; cast up a way for him that rideth in the deserts: his name is Jah; and rejoice before him”.
JT The name there is ‘Jah’, which we shall link on presently with Exodus 15. The next direct reference is Psalm 135, which is similar to Psalm 102: “Thy name, O Jehovah, is for ever; thy memorial, O Jehovah, from generation to generation”, Psalm 135:13. You will see how the Spirit of God and the best spiritual features in Israel are engaged in carrying this forward — this precious Name. It is their greatest thought and greatest treasure that they are in relation to such a God. Then we have in Isaiah 26:8: “Yea, in the way of thy judgments, O Jehovah, have we waited for thee; the desire of our soul is to thy name, and to thy memorial”. See the longings of the soul! Isaiah is the vessel here. And then finally in Hosea 12:4,5, speaking about Jacob, “Yea, he wrestled with the Angel, and prevailed; he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spoke with us, — even Jehovah, the God of hosts, — Jehovah is his memorial”; that is, Jehovah, the Name, is His memorial.
ABP The fact that it carries through the prophets would indicate that the thing is secured eternally.
JT Yes; and entering into the ministry, that the saints should be reminded of it, because prophetic ministry is intended to keep needed truth before the saints. The Psalms denote the experience of the saints, but then that experience may wane and the prophets have to revive it.
Ques Is it necessary to recognise authority in the servant through whom the name of God is developed?
JT Exactly; you can see how Moses advanced in this way. And he was enabled to contribute to the Psalms.
APT Would Moses’ experience with God here indicate the way God operates now with any whom He may be using to help [p. 273] the brethren?
JT That is the principle. It is the principle of obtaining a gift. He was ready for it after the eighty years of experience he had. God seizes an opportunity to reveal Himself to him. He intended him to be a great minister; and he needed not only the experience he had had, but this revelation. And so you find with Peter — the Father reveals something to him and so you find with Paul. “God ... was pleased to reveal his Son in me”, Galatians 1:16, he says; and so it is with everyone of us who are of any service; we get some kind of transaction with God and He reveals Himself to us in some way and we are effective — on that line, whatever it is.
RWS Will you enlarge on this thought of ‘my memorial’ as it applies to us today?
JT The idea is carrying things down; carrying things forward. The Lord’s supper, of course, illustrates it. How essential it is! At the very beginning of the dispensation they broke bread “in the house”; And then they came together to break bread; “we being assembled together to break bread”. In the letter from Paul to the Corinthians, the institution of the Supper is given in a reduced way: “that the Lord Jesus, in the night in which he was delivered up, took bread, and having given thanks broke it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me. In like manner also the cup, after having supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me”, 1 Corinthians 11:24,25. And so the idea of a memorial is carried through. I suppose the first great thought of a memorial is in Joseph. “Only bear a remembrance with thee of me”, he says to the butler. Genesis 40:14.
AR That is, I suppose, personal? “This do for a remembrance of me” would be the means of calling the Lord Jesus to mind, whereas the memorial now before us is the calling to mind of God’s holy name.
JT It is; but ‘name’ is what a person really is, only [p. 274] what he is as made known; and in principle, I think, it is bringing down what God is in Christ in the Lord’s supper; only, it is personal, as you say, to the Lord. It is an assembly matter as 1 Corinthians 11:17 - 22 shows.
Rem The opposite would be in Exodus 32:1 “for this Moses, the man that has brought us up out of the land of Egypt — we do not know what is become of him!” It seems as though idolatry marks those who do not remember the Lord.
JT That is what happened at Corinth. They had really missed the point in the Lord’s supper. They were carrying on in a scandalous way in the assembly; Christ was being displaced in their minds and this would make way for idolatry. Moses was away less than forty days — yet they said, “for this Moses ... we do not know what is become of him!” The Lord’s supper keeps Him very vividly before us. We know what has become of Him.
CAM Do you not think this word ‘memorial’ is a sort of key word to the whole history of time. Eternity will show the effect of it — what we have learned of God.
JT All that God is as known is carried down in the memorial. So that in assembly service we begin with the idea of memorial. We thus make room for the Lord to come in and He will not fail to bring the Father in; because that is the principle of His ministry. As He was about to leave the disciples He stressed the Father, as seen in John’s gospel. We have the Son saying, “Holy Father”. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit enter into the service; we are baptised to that Name. The Lord’s supper keeps all that before us.
DP “I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee”, Psalm 22:22. Is that the thought in the assembly?
JT That helps as to what we are saying. The Lord takes care of the Father’s Name; we take care of His, in that sense. It is His Supper; we recall Him in His [p. 275] Supper, but He brings the Father in; He makes room for the Father. The memorial maintains freshness.
DP Is the thought of memorial objective?
JT The Lord’s supper is an objective thought in the symbols, but it affects our minds, and our minds are what the Lord uses. He comes into our minds; the way is opened, and He comes in and gradually takes charge. We begin with the physical thought in coming together; the bread and the cup are physical. As we sit down together we are so regarded. Eating and drinking implies it; but then the Lord coming in is spiritual. He does not come in corporeally; He comes in spiritually; and if He has scope amongst us He will in due course occupy us with the Father; He will bring Him in, because He declares His name to His brethren, and in the midst of the brethren He sings — in the midst of the assembly. Thus the memorial bears on the whole service.
Ques Would you say that through the memorial, we are affected constitutionally, so that, as you mentioned, in this book there is a development of true features of manhood?
JT There is; and it culminates in Aaron. The idea is that, although it is sons who do serve, yet they serve as priests; because the priest provides for what is due to God in holiness and intelligence. Sonship is a matter of family affection, but priesthood is that you know what to say and when and how to say it; you say it by the Spirit. I mean that you are governed by the truth in all that you do. We are to worship by the Spirit of God, Philippians 3:3.
WB-w It is called a sign in Exodus 3:12: “and this shall be the sign to thee that I have sent thee: when thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain”. And in Exodus 3:15: “This is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations”. Is there any difference between a sign and memorial?
JT [p. 276] Well, the service is the sign. God is here appealing to the instincts of Moses that the sign is what they should do themselves. They would serve Him on that mountain.
WB-w The sign would be the result of the memorial?
JT And that Moses would respond. God is anticipating that he and the people would respond and actually serve Him.
WB-w The sign was answered to when they worshipped.
JT It is where they worshipped; and that is just where God was speaking to him. Instead of God just conversing with him, Israel would be serving God there; that is, when the people would be out of Egypt, showing that there would be a real deliverance; and that is what comes out in chapter 4. They begin to worship as Moses and Aaron minister to them with this special light. How can we fail to worship God as we know Him as Father?
JS During the past dispensation the memorial to Israel was connected with the passover, was it not?
JT That was a memorial of an event but this was Jehovah’s memorial, “My memorial”, He says, The passover day was a memorial, to be celebrated as “a feast to Jehovah”, Exodus 12:14. The passover and feast of unleavened bread was a question of Israel’s moral condition. The feast of unleavened bread was to be a memorial between the eyes of children of Israel, “that the law of Jehovah may be in thy mouth”, Exodus 13:9.
ABP In connection with the Supper, especially in small meetings, does it not help to have a greater sense of what the memorial is if we connect history with it? In Corinthians the night in which the Lord was betrayed is referred to, and this scripture refers to “from generation to generation”. I just wondered if the sense of what He [p. 277] has been throughout generations would add to the sense of the greatness of it?
JT Just so; we have, therefore, a variation in the book of Revelation in the verse we read in chapter 1: “... he who is”, Revelation 1:8. That is not history, that is the present; the present ever-existing One. “... and who was, and who is to come”, “the Almighty”. “Who was” is history, “who is to come” is prophecy, or future. But in chapter 4 it is “... who was, and who is, and who is to come”, Revelation 4:8. That is, the historical side is placed first in chapter 4, and I suppose that is how it is in the Lord’s supper. It is a matter of history, but a memorial of Christ, His name implied; and we come in for the more spiritual part of the service as He is known in the midst. But in other circumstances we put “who is” first. That is, God regarded as eternally existent.
JS You have frequently said that Luke supports Paul. Is that the reason why the passover and the Supper merge in Luke?
JT In Luke he rather separates them, one following on the other; but in Matthew and Mark they more merge; they run into each other; but in Luke it is “after supper”, and Paul says, “after having supped”; meaning the passover supper is finished before He introduces His own Supper. So that there is a formal separation in Luke; Luke is, I believe, peculiarly for us gentiles; for local assemblies.
AR The word ‘memorial’ would indicate the power that Moses had in his soul to convey the thought of the name Jehovah, the I AM. The revelation was given to him personally, but to be handed down.
JT That is just it. He evidently conveyed it to the brethren too. I mean, it must have been there as Peter’s confession has been placed amongst the brethren. The Holy Spirit takes care of that, and carries it down to us. What he had was brought to the assembly. Now in Moses’ case you will see in chapter 34 how it was [p. 278] accentuated in his own experience. In chapter 34 Moses was directed to go up to the mountain, and it says, “And Jehovah came down in the cloud, and stood beside him there, and proclaimed the name of Jehovah. And Jehovah passed by before his face, and proclaimed Jehovah, Jehovah God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy unto thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but by no means clearing the guilty”, Exodus 34:5 - 7. You can see how Moses is further impressed with this great name; only it is now the name he is identifying with the people in serving them — God actually operating among them. But it is “Jehovah, Jehovah. And Jehovah passed by before his face”, and when he came down from the mountain his face shone.
JS Would that be on the line of revelation as reflected in the face of Moses?
JT That is the idea; the thought of Jehovah is evidently greatly impressed upon him. “Jehovah came down in the cloud, and stood beside him there, and proclaimed the name of Jehovah. And Jehovah passed by before his face, and proclaimed Jehovah, Jehovah God, merciful and gracious”. He did not do that at first, Moses saw Him in the bush at first, and the name is simply disclosed to him verbally, but now the Person Himself passes before him in all this gracious way; and all that would enter into his ministry.
DP Would you say this Name was taken on by the people as seen in chapter 15 where they sing to Jehovah?
JT Yes. That brings in the second thought that we had in mind; the title Jah there. They are already in the wilderness. “Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song to Jehovah, and spoke, saying, I will sing unto Jehovah, for he is highly exalted: The horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. My strength and song is Jah”, Exodus 15:1,2. This is the first [p. 279] mention of Jah, and the note says, ‘Jah may be a short form of Jehovah; but it seems to express His absolute rather than His continuous existence. See Psalm 68:4’. But the people here are seen as occupied with God, not so much because of what He is, but because of what He did for them. Because they say, “for he is highly exalted: The horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. My strength and song is Jah, and he is become my salvation”, Exodus 15:1,2. In the use of Jah — its first mention — there is a touch of increased spirituality as they begin to sing. It is the first song; you might say, the beginning of the service of God; and it is very significant that Jehovah and Jah are found together in it.
AR On the one hand, you might say, the song of relief, and on the other the knowledge of God as absolute?
JT Yes. “My strength and song is Jah, and he is become my salvation: This is my God, and I will glorify him; My father’s God, and I will extol him”. All that He has been to them is brought into this song.
JS So that the revelation is effective in Moses?
JT Just so; and effected in the other singers to some extent. The children of Israel are joining in it; In this production we have a key to the service of song. There are cumulative spiritual touches throughout.
JTJr Would it correspond with John 9? We have a development of revelation in the man in John 9.
JT Just so; he ended in worshipping the Lord as Son of God. The works of God are manifested in him.
AR Would you say that in Exodus 15 we begin to think for God? “This is my God, and I will glorify him”. Love is now operative in the people?
JT Just so; this would make the way for chapter 25, where God says, I am ready to dwell with you now. God brings that out when the time comes for it.
RWS Is there to be increased discrimination [p. 280] in the use of the hymn book in giving out just certain verses which apply to the time at hand?
JT I think good use of the hymn book is very important; even to the selection of verses. The hymn that often throws us out of balance is (209:1). It is one of the best known hymns, but sometimes is given out just after the Lord’s supper; it brings us to God at once, and throws us out of balance. One might leave out the closing verses and reserve them for a later part of the service.
APT Do you believe that God puts us through this great thought of memorial every Lord’s day morning?
JT Yes. It comes into christianity in the Lord’s supper. The passover was a memorial, but it was of their deliverance; it was on the physical side leading us to the spiritual. The Name is spiritual. It refers to the highest spirituality in Israel.
Ques Would you say that “who is” is the thought of God we should come to in assembly?
JT It belongs to the service of God properly. It enters into the thought of Christ’s God. It is the ultimate of the service, you might say. “... my Father, and your Father ... my God and your God”, John 20:17.
CAM Is it not remarkable that Absalom who represents what is anti-christian builds a memorial much on the order of the ecclesiastical world, because he had no son? The contrast of that shows what a wonderful living and eternal order of things we are connected with in this memorial.
JT Quite so; the ‘no son’ state is in the cathedrals.
Ques Would you say there is increasing revelation in the memorial?
JT It would be rather that we come into the fulness of the revelation. How many of us ever do? Jehovah says, “I AM THAT I AM”, Exodus 3:14. What is there is there, but [p. 281] the next thing is how much do we enter into it and appropriate it? For us the revelation is complete. The Lord says, “I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known”, John 17:26. The latter is John 20. When David went into the house of the Lord and sat down, how rich his words became! How glorious were the appellations he could use in speaking about God! The nearer we get to Him the freer we are in speaking to Him.
FNW Paul says, “that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, would give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of him”, Ephesians 1:17. When does this take place?
JT That may take place in any of us at any time. It is a question of the spirit of wisdom and revelation, being given to us, “so that ye should know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what the surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe”, Ephesians 1:18,19. It is a question of our state there. The revelation is objective, but a state is required to take it in.
Rem John in the book of Revelation was in a proper state to receive that revelation; he was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day.
JT He was in a fit state for it.
DP This revelation was given to Moses on the mount with God, and the people were to serve on that mountain.
JT I think God was saying to him that where he was then, he and Israel would serve Him presently. But it would be after they came out of Egypt. For us it is really a moral state of things denoted in the mountain.
WB-w What is the point in the three persons in the titles, The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, being brought into this Name?
JT To bring the truth down to the current date; which is always a principle. The testimony is always cumulative; so that what we are going along with now is [p. 282] not only what we have got for ourselves; it has been brought down to us. It is not new in the sense of further revelation, but what may be entered into by the spirit of wisdom and revelation, which God gives to us. What those who have gone before gained in this way the saints at a given time may add to. David said to Solomon, “thou shalt add to it”, 1 Chronicles 22:14.
WB-w Would it refer to the unconditional covenant? The covenant in Genesis 17 is unconditional; and this is the conditional covenant. Do they both run now together?
JT All the covenants come down; even the covenant made with Noah comes down.
JHE You made mention of the name Jehovah being revealed to Moses. He must have been greatly impressed and must have received great spiritual and moral power, because he was able to transfuse it to Aaron and to the people. Would you say a little more about the intimacy?
JT The working out of the truth in the two brothers is interesting. The system that God set up in connection with Moses and Aaron in Exodus began here with the two brothers. Jehovah appeared to Moses, and Moses told Aaron what Jehovah had said to him, and Aaron spake to the people all the words that Jehovah had spoken to Moses. It passed through Aaron’s hands to the people and the people believed, and they bowed their heads and worshipped. It is an excellent result of ministry, when people become worshippers through it.
RWS This revelation is given him in circumstances of affliction. Is there some connection in the present affliction of the people of God and the ministry we have been having by the Spirit?
JT I am sure whatever has come to us and has been stressed among us is in order to meet an emergency. It looks to me as if the brethren who are going through this [p. 283] sorrow have a deeper appreciation of God than perhaps we have had earlier. What we are saying today certainly bears on it.
CAM Do you not think Satan himself knows how precious the light is; and really the intensity of the evil is against the very places that have had the light; I mean, have had the privilege of diffusing the ministry worldwide?
JT It would look as if God were testing His own work. “The proving of your faith, much more precious than of gold which perishes, though it be proved by fire, be found to praise and glory and honour in the revelation of Jesus Christ”, 1 Peter 1:7. It seems to me that God has placed the thing where it can be borne, and He is glorified in the way it is being experienced. That is the way I understand it.
AR Would you say that in spite of the departure seen with Aaron in the incident of the golden calf, Moses gets a further revelation; and through his faithfulness he laid the foundation morally for it?
JT Yes. In chapter 34 he gets a fresh impression of Jehovah and instead of exactly ten words, it is “after the tenor of these words”. It is like the new covenant; the spirit of it and not in the letter. So that the next chapter brings out the material for the tabernacle, Exodus 35:?.
WB-w The thousands in this chapter 34 get mercy. In chapter 20 it is the thousands of those that love Him. In these circumstances we need mercy: “Jehovah God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy unto thousands, forgiving iniquity, and transgression and sin”. Is that what is needed just now?
JT There are thousands who need it!
GVD Is this characteristic of God to pass before us in testing times? He did so before Elijah.
JT Well, it is to show Himself; passing by is to show [p. 284] Himself.
FSC Would the cleft of the rock suggest the death of Christ? (chapter 33).
JT God says, “And it shall come to pass, when my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover thee with my hand, until I have passed by”, Exodus 33:22. And then in verse 5 of this chapter: “And Jehovah came down in the cloud, and stood beside him there, and proclaimed the name of Jehovah”, Exodus 34:5. There can be no doubt that morally the cleft of the rock precedes this wonderful incident, and it must be as in Christ we stand up in the presence of the glory. “In a cleft of the rock” is “in Christ”. 2 Timothy stresses the thought of being “in Christ Jesus”, 2 Timothy 1:1;2 Timothy 1:9;2 Timothy 1:13;2 Timothy 2:1;2 Timothy 3:12;2 Timothy 3:15, because it is needed so that we should be sure of our position in the last days.
AR Would you say that the enemy is seeking to destroy what God has on earth?
JT Yes. The word has gone out for destruction; not simply fighting a nation, but destroying it. But there is a great deal for God there, and destroying it is Apollyon’s work; and God is taking notice of that.
Ques When the Lord comes, is not the door of mercy and grace closed? Then wrath is to come upon the earth.
JT Yes; we have not come to that. What is going on is only a foreshadowing of what is to come. It is well to take account of that. The Lord said to Philadelphia: “I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial”, not “take thee out of” it, but “keep thee out of” it.
AR That would be very comforting to the saints who are experiencing something of the tribulation now, because some thought at the commencement that we were about to be taken out of it.
APT It says, the smell of the fire was not on Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, Daniel 3:27. Do you not think that is the way we should know God and be able to come through?
JT [p. 285] That is it; He does not even allow the smell of the persecution. And the king said he saw four men loose walking in the midst of the furnace. Instead of three there are four, and “the fourth is like a son of God”. What an experience for them!
One has often remarked as to Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego — they are mentioned together about thirteen times in one chapter, and it is encouraging to see that almost every brother who stands up to pray today, prays for our suffering brethren. Their names are well known up there; they are often heard.