DIVINE NAMES (11)

^[p. 379] DIVINE NAMES (11)

Acts 2:1 - 4; John 14:15 - 17; Genesis 1:2; Matthew 3:16 - 17

JT According to what we have spoken of together with some of the brethren here, the subject tonight should be the Holy Spirit. It was thought that we should begin with Him as sent down from heaven at Pentecost as the Holy Spirit. Then as the Comforter, John 14:16, and as the Spirit of God, Genesis 1:2, and passages in the New Testament; and at the next reading, perhaps, take up the other titles of the Holy Spirit spoken of in the Scriptures.

It is as under the titles mentioned above that He has been received by christians, so that each christian ought to be able to verify what Scripture presents on this great subject, for He has come into us feelingly and sympathetically, shedding the love of God abroad in our hearts. The title Spirit of God presents Him from God’s side, coming in feelingly, first in regard to the chaotic state of things presented in Genesis 1, where He is moving over the face of the deep, evidently with feeling. And then in Matthew He comes in with supreme feeling and affection. The Spirit of God came upon Jesus as He was baptised. It was thought from the outset that we should pursue this great subject in an experimental way. Of course, we have to think of the Spirit objectively too, but still inasmuch as we as christians have Him we ought to be able to think of Him with feeling, and with the consciousness of what He is to us.

CAM I suppose the fact that we are coming into that glorious world in all the meaning of sonship would mean that we have feelings with regard to this matter.

JT Well, I hope we shall show that we have. Certainly if we have the Holy Spirit we ought to be able to speak of Him feelingly, not merely in an objective or theoretic way. Hence the verse first read says, “when ^[p. 380] the day of Pentecost was now accomplishing, they were all together in one place. And there came suddenly a sound out of heaven as of a violent impetuous blowing, and filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them parted tongues, as of fire, and it sat upon each one of them”, Acts 2:3. And then verse 4 tells us, “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth”, Acts 2:4. All that points to experience which everyone present at that time would be able to give an account of subsequently, I am sure. For Peter in commenting on the Holy Spirit coming to the gentiles says, “and as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them even as upon us also at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, John baptised with water, but ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit. If then God has given them the same gift as also to us when we had believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who indeed was I to be able to forbid God?” Acts 11:17. That is, as the gentiles received the Holy Spirit in Peter’s presence, he recalls what happened when the Spirit came to the Jews at first, that there was correspondence. And it would seem as if there should be correspondence with everyone of us in our reception of the Spirit, our possessing Him. We ought to be able to verify it by the facts presented in Acts 2.

ANW Would the fact that the article in the first part of Acts 2:4 may be left out, confirm that “Holy Spirit” is, in a way characteristic? “And they were all filled with Holy Spirit”.

JT Yes, corresponding with John 20:22. “Having said this, he breathed into them, and says to them, Receive (the) Holy Spirit”. It is the same form; the article is not in the original; it is the character of what is received.

AR Should all believers have this experience two-fold? The passage says, “it sat upon each one of them.

^[p. 381] And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit”, Acts 2:4. There was the external evidence of what was received internally.

JT Just so; and there is uniformity. It sat on each, it would be the same on each person. “They were all filled with (the) Holy Spirit”, Acts 2:4, would mean that there was correspondence throughout. However many there were, the same thing happened, as to the outwardness of the transaction and as to the inwardness of it. Because the inwardness is in the feeling and in the speaking, not simply objectively, but as the Spirit gave them to speak forth. That is, it is the Person of the Spirit now. The article is there and He is operating; He is operating in them.

WB-w “Sat upon each one of them”, Acts 2:3 — is that equivalent to each one being baptised by the Spirit as in Acts 10:47?

JT Well this is, of course, peculiar to the initial incoming of the Spirit, pointing to what should mark His presence in the testimony. That is, “there appeared to them parted tongues as of fire”, Acts 2:3. We do not get that afterwards. No one, I suppose, ever received the Holy Spirit after this in just that way. These verses are dispensational, pointing to the fact that there would be speaking in all languages, and that there should be fire accompanying the speaking to disallow the flesh. This stands as inaugurating the dispensation of the Spirit, but there is no evidence that it was repeated. What happened at Cornelius’ house was that the Holy Spirit fell upon each of them. It says, “While Peter was yet speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word”, Acts 10:44. The title is not without the article there. It is the Person of the Spirit that lays hold of the gentile believer. ‘Fell’ would be energetic; it is a different transaction in that sense, but it is the Holy Spirit personally who is taking on the hearers of the gospel through Peter, as Peter was speaking. There is nothing said about cloven tongues of fire, but we are not ^[p. 382] to set that aside; it stands. So that the baptism by the Holy Spirit would correspond; it is the public side, and the anointing is the public side; but baptism brings us into one body. “For also in the power of one Spirit we have all been baptised into one body”; 1 Corinthians 12:13. Anointing is for dignity. Both baptism and anointing are public, external; but the internal side is what is so precious because He operates in us inwardly. The operations are from within by the Spirit; He operates in christians, in suitable vessels.

AR Is that why Peter in his address in Acts 2:33 refers to the promise of the Holy Spirit? “... and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear”. It is as if the great fact was being demonstrated before their eyes.

JT Yes, the mockers said that they were full of new wine. The allusion is to of what they were inwardly. It does not say they were anointed with fresh oil, but they were filled with new wine. The power of the Spirit is always from within. The mockers say. They are full of new wine, but that only shows that there was real power there, a real change had come into these persons.

Ques Do you regard the falling of the Holy Spirit upon the believers spoken of in Acts 10 as dispensational, too?

JT It is just the extension of Pentecost, only there is nothing said about the tongues nor the fire nor the breathing; the breathing ought to be noted too. There is nothing said about these three things afterwards; the only thing that is said about the breathing is when the Lord Jesus breathed into the disciples, and said “Receive the Holy Spirit”. But this is violent breathing, showing the Holy Spirit was coming in in a powerful way, an irresistible way. They began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth. Clearly He was operating and they were amenable to Him in their ^[p. 383] affections and their vocal powers. It is to be clearly kept in mind that the Holy Spirit operates in vessels, either in the assembly collectively or in each person, and that person or that assembly is amenable to Him, because it is as the Spirit gave them utterance.

ABP In Peter’s recital in Acts 15, he refers to the heart-knowing God, in connection with the giving of the Spirit. Would that be in contrast with what the mockers say about them being filled with new wine?

JT Yes; God gives the Spirit; His Spirit is given to those who value Him; to all those who obey God; and it is secured through prayer according to the Lord’s remarks: “how much rather shall the Father who is of heaven give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him”, Luke 11:13. The gift of the Spirit is proposed to persons who appreciate Him. The heart-knowing God knows who these are.

JTJr Would you say that Simeon helps in the consideration of the matter? Scripture says the Holy Spirit was upon him, and then there was a revelation to him by the Spirit, and then he came in by the Spirit into the temple, Luke 2:25 - 27.

JT I think he is presented as a model for us, a representative man as to the Spirit in Luke. Although he is not said to be a priest, he represents true priesthood, which we might expect to get in Luke. He is characteristically “in Jerusalem”, having the Spirit upon him, receives communications by the Spirit and moves by the Spirit into the temple. And all that having been stated, he, it is said, received the Lord Jesus into his arms. Then he said what was suitable. He spoke in a priestly and prophetic way.

EEH Would you say a word as to the Holy Spirit descending and abiding on Jesus as in contrast to Acts?

JT Well, that will come in when we consider “the Spirit of God”, but it is important to observe the difference now that it is the Spirit of God that comes that ^[p. 384] way. He comes as a dove because there is nothing at all in Christ to challenge His sensitiveness. The dove is, I think, a symbol of sensitiveness — a very sensitive creature. We see her first with Noah; how he sent her out from him and she came back to him, as if there was a link between her and Noah. The Spirit comes as a dove on Jesus. There is nothing at all incongruous there, everything is infinitely perfect, so that the Holy Spirit abides upon Him. I think consideration of that endears the Lord to us; He was endeared to the Father at that time. “This is my beloved Son, in whom I have found my delight”, Matthew 3:17. And then the Spirit of God came upon Him; the word to John the baptist is “Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and abiding on him, he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit”, John 1:33.

AR And is the Spirit of God in contrast to Holy Spirit at Pentecost? I suppose the latter has in view that there might be unholy conditions there?

JT Yes. The passage read, I thought, would be the best one to have before us because it gives the exact title, ‘the Spirit of God’. “And he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him”. It is not simply the character, but the Spirit of God coming upon Jesus, in a complete personal sense, not by measure. He is great enough for this. No creature could receive the Spirit in its entirety; it is too great a thought.

WB-w The same chapter, Matthew 3:11, says, “He shall baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire”. Fire is mentioned.

JT Well, that is the thought in our passage in Acts 2, but the article is omitted there; it is ‘Holy Spirit’. It is not the Spirit viewed in the same personal, absolute way, as in His coming down upon the Lord Jesus. It is true, however, that the Spirit is in the assembly in completeness.

ANW What does John refer to when he says that “God gives not the Spirit by measure”, John 3:34.

JT Well, He has come down in full personality.

ANW I only meant whether it stood related to the Lord Himself or as given in relation to Pentecost.

JT “For God gives not the Spirit by measure”. I think that would refer to Christ personally, but it refers to the assembly too. The Holy Spirit is here in a personal sense in the assembly, as Christ was here personally. The Spirit is “another Comforter”.

AR Is your thought that in Acts 2 the article is left out indicating that It was not there in toto at Pentecost?

JT No. It is to show the character more of what came in. He came in completeness, because we have immediately after that statement “as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth”, Acts 2:4. That is, the Spirit personally, operating here.

RWS Does the Spirit of God represent feelings and sensitiveness combined with power as related to God?

JT Well, viewed as coming into the assembly, or come to anyone of us, He is here in these connections. He is here feelingly and in power. Hence, Paul says, “in demonstration of the Spirit and of power”, 1 Corinthians 2:4. And, of course, He is in power in the believer, as the well of water springing up into everlasting life. That would be the same thought; that would be power in the way of enjoyment, for He operates in our affections, springing up into everlasting life. But then He also, as the Spirit of God, is seen in power in testimony, so that Paul says, “in demonstration of the Spirit and of power”. So that, I think, so far as we have gone it is a question of what the Spirit is to us, whether as individuals, or collectively in the assembly. What He is in coming in feelingly and shedding abroad God’s love in our hearts, and delivering us as taught in Romans; and then what He is as the Comforter, alongside of us in a collective sense. These are the two thoughts I thought we might dwell on, first ^[p. 386] that each might inquire into his own history; as to whether his history corresponds to what is presented in these two scriptures, that is, Acts 2 and John 14. The word Comforter in John 14 is a title of the Spirit that is unique, because it does not refer to Him with the combination Spirit. It is a word used by itself, as applying to the Holy Spirit here with us.

CAM I wanted to ask you a question about this expression, “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit”. The Holy Spirit is connected with finite vessels; and yet He is a divine Person, and hence infinite.

JT Quite so; and the assembly is great enough to receive the Holy Spirit in that sense. Of course, the assembly is not infinite, but still it is great enough to afford a dwelling-place for the Holy Spirit, as it affords a dwelling-place for God. So that infinity comes into the finite.

CAM That is what I meant. It is a marvellous thing.

JT There is the idea of compression in it. He who took a body was God Himself. God was “manifested in flesh”. So that it is infiniteness coming into limitation in love.

ANW And yet the speaking, the Spirit speaking would be without limitation, would it not? The whole power of the Spirit is there in the speaking.

Ques Would not John 14 suggest what you are saying about the infinite coming into the finite, following the Lord’s statement that the Comforter would be given? He then speaks about Himself, coming into the believer, and also the Father, as if that is the thought, the Spirit coming in makes way for the Father and the Son.

JT That is the way it stands in those verses. The Comforter, meaning One who takes care of us, looking after everything that is necessary, makes room for the Son to come in, and the Father too. So that the three Persons are seen there. But then they are come into ^[p. 387] finite conditions, and that is all in keeping with God as revealing Himself. He creates and then He comes into what He creates, and what He creates is necessarily finite; but He is never other than infinite.

WFK It says, “another Comforter”. Does that mean the Lord had been a Comforter to the disciples?

JT He had rendered the same kind of service to the disciples; an advocate as often remarked, who takes care of your matters better than you can take care of them yourself. But the Spirit also takes care of things in relation to the Father and the Son so that they might be provided for as coming in here.

JTJr I was wondering if Acts 13 would bear that out. The Holy Spirit is speaking as in the assembly, in connection with the services.

JT He said, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them”, Acts 13:2. That was the Holy Spirit speaking Himself as a divine Person here, but obviously He would use someone in the assembly to say that; throughout the Acts you have evidences of this. Paul says, “The Holy Spirit testifies to me in every city, saying that bonds and tribulations await me”, Acts 20:23. That would mean that He testified to Paul in the assembly.

“They were all filled” — the use of the word filled here would hardly suggest that the saints had small capacities, because they had already been under the Lord’s hand in the way of preparation for this great matter. The question is, therefore, when each of us receives the Spirit how much capacity there is to fill. One reverts to one’s own history; at the beginning there was hardly any capacity. The Holy Spirit has to battle for a place in us. And that brings in a christian’s history of self-judgment. The fire which marked the coming of the Spirit enters into this.

WB-w God says through Joel, “I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh”, Acts 2:17. Would that go beyond the ^[p. 388] assembly?

JT That is millennial. It is a millennial state of things there, as you would expect in the prophets; but it is brought into Acts 2, to confirm what happened; what had happened is described in the four verses read, and it is very practical that they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth. In the citation from Joel you will notice how many things are predicated of the Spirit: “It shall be in the last days, saith God, that I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your elders shall dream with dreams; yea, even upon my bondmen and upon my bondwomen in those days will I pour out of my Spirit, and they shall prophesy”. And then it goes on, “And I will give wonders in the heaven above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: the sun shall be changed to darkness and the moon to blood, before the great and gloriously appearing day of the Lord come”, Acts 2:17 - 20. All that is millennial, or rather, introductory to that blessed period; but it is applied here as confirming what had just happened at Jerusalem.

WB-w They all spoke with tongues — was that miraculous? Does it mean that a person who never knew a certain language got up and spoke that language?

JT Yes; it was miraculous. “We do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God”, Acts 2:11. All these languages were represented and the speaking was intelligible; it was in keeping with the cloven tongues of fire. God was stressing that side of it, that the testimony should go out in all languages.

RWS Acts 4:31 says, “they were all filled with the Holy Spirit”. After the apostles had been released and go to their own company, Acts 4:31 says, “and when they had prayed, the place in which they were assembled shook, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and ^[p. 389] spoke the word of God with boldness”. Is that filling the thought of increased capacity?

JT I think it is renewal. It is confirmatory of what was already experienced. It was to encourage them, as we may experience in our little way now. God sometimes gives you to experience an impulse of the Spirit that you have not had before; God comes in to encourage us in our meetings in that way.

RWS Coming into the company.

JT It is a collective thought; the place was shaken — that was miraculous, of course, but it would remind the saints gathered of Pentecost.

AAT In Acts 5, I notice when Peter was rebuking Ananias he says Ananias had lied to the Holy Spirit, not to the brethren. How do you understand that?

JT Well, the three divine Persons are brought in. He lied to the Holy Spirit, Acts 5:3; to God, Acts 5:4. And he says to Sapphira, “Why is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord?” Acts 5:9. I think it is to show that the enemy through Ananias and Sapphira was attacking God as revealed and operating in the assembly. It brings out, I think, the character of the moment — that God and Christ and the Spirit are seen operating in the assembly.

CAM You were referring to the fact that the Holy Spirit had found a place; the speaking there is all over the world in the way of ministry, is that not a very encouraging thing, indicating that the Holy Spirit has such freedom?

JT It is a great testimony now that there are those who make room for Him; you can see what is in mind here. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave to them to speak forth. The Holy Spirit is operating; He has got a means of doing it; scope is made for Him so that He can do it — a great testimony in Jerusalem. I am sure the Spirit of God is aiming at this with us now. It is a question of capacity. How much can each of us contain?

^[p. 390] And then how much can we contain collectively? Speaking spiritually will be in the measure in which we are filled with Holy Spirit.

Ques Is that not brought out in Stephen? — Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit, Acts 6:5.

JT Yes. It is a full vessel that is needed; that is a principle with God. And so in John’s gospel the six water pots were to be filled up to the brim and then they draw forth; that is there must be fulness, the vessel filled in order that the Holy Spirit might operate effectively. Christ was full of the Holy Spirit; also full of grace and truth.

AR Acts 4 says, “then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, Rulers of the people and elders of Israel ...”, Acts 4:8; could that be seen by those who were listening?

JT I think so; you would see that that man was full of something. The mockers say the saints are full of new wine, but it is not so; it was too early in the day for people to drink wine; it was only the third hour. Peter condescends thus to meet the enemy. And then he goes on to give them a wonderful gospel, saying almost at the end: “having therefore been exalted by the right hand of God, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which ye behold and hear”. It was not only the words they spoke but the effect of what they had received on the vessels; you could see they were different men, and that is what should mark every one of us.

CAM Do you not think Satan is making a very great effort in multiplying voices and amplifying them, to drown this wonderful speaking?

JT Yes. It is remarkable that in referring to the Spirit the Lord in John 7 is said to have cried, “If any one thirst, let him come to me and drink”, John 7:37. Several times He is said in the Scriptures to have cried, and this time in relation to the Holy Spirit.

^[p. 391] As regards the Comforter, what has been already said ought to be borne in mind. It is a title that does not convey what the Spirit is as the Spirit; it is a title denoting His functions. All the other titles link with what He is as the Spirit. He is called the Comforter, or Paraclete, which means One that looks after matters amongst the saints. And I think we ought to take good account of that and make room for Him in all matters relative to the assembly, relative to the service of God. There are principles to govern us, but we must make room for the Spirit in all matters.

WB-w “For he abides with you, and shall be in you”, John 14:17. Is that why you use the word ‘alongside’?

JT The word means that; the same title that is applied to the Lord Jesus above. He is an Advocate with the Father. That is the same word; He is carrying on for us up there. Everything that is needed on our account up there is taken care of. The Holy Spirit is operating here, exactly in the same way, only He is with us.

FSC Is that not the reason the word ‘another’ is used?

JT It is, because the Lord had been this to the disciples when He was here amongst them. He looked after things for them. He said, “But I am in the midst of you as the one that serves”, Luke 22:27. You wonder what He did not do when He was among the disciples. He did anything that was necessary to be done for them.

AR Does that mean that the Holy Spirit would take on that service? The footnote says, ‘One who carries on the cause of any one and helps him’, John 14:16.

JT Yes; that is the note in John 14. That confirms what we are saying.

AR It is really very remarkable; I would like to get a little help on ^[p. 392] it.

JT Well, what has been said is the truth. Let us learn to make room for the Holy Spirit in matters that are relative to our position here in testimony. He is ready to serve us.

APT Would it be indicated in the multiplication of the food that was short? That was something the Lord did when He was there. In a meeting like this the Holy Spirit comes to serve us in every way. Now the Lord is not here, but the Holy Spirit is here and He would help in this or any such meeting.

ANW What is the bearing of the title ‘Spirit of truth’? It is linked with the Comforter.

JT The bearing of that would be in our times when the truth is so beclouded by heresies. The Spirit of truth comes out in these chapters. “He shall guide you into all the truth”, the Lord says, John 16:13. So that we must make room for the Holy Spirit especially in that respect, because the truth is so important to be kept before the saints. And the whole truth, nothing but the truth.

AR When the Lord was here the disciples would come to Him for help, would they not? It is really the idea now that I learn how to make room for the Holy Spirit in me to help me.

JT That is right; make room for Him. We are to be “filled with the Holy Spirit”, Acts 4:31, not partially filled, but wholly filled.

Rem The Lord manages our affairs up there and the Spirit manages our affairs down here.

JT That is it exactly. The word ‘Advocate’ in John’s epistle is the same in the original as ‘Comforter’ here.

WB-w Does it not work out in the Spirit using someone to help us in the practical working out of the thing down here?

JT It does. Of course, the Holy Spirit is often limited Himself because of the weakness of the vessels ^[p. 393] available to Him, so that we do not have the same power they had in apostolic days; but still you can see at meetings how the Holy Spirit helps; one says one thing and another another; we are not arguing; we are not debating, but the Holy Spirit uses one after another, so that the truth comes out in what we say. He is concerned about the truth, and through His presence and service we are kept and helped generally so that we are guided into the truth.

ANW Of Stephen it is said, “and they were not able to resist the wisdom and the Spirit with which he spoke”, Acts 6:10.

RWS How far does this help go? Is it in spiritual matters and temporal matters, or is it limited to the spiritual?

JT It is spiritual. Of course, the Holy Spirit would act in you in keeping with what you have to do. So that even in your business He keeps you right; He keeps you free and above your circumstances. Otherwise you would be difficult and irritable. The great thing is to be in our ordinary affairs, our domestic affairs, and business affairs, to be above the circumstances; not to allow the circumstances to carry you, but you carry them. And therefore, you are superior to them. That is the Spirit’s function; to keep you happy, free and in power. And then you are able to do other things. The Holy Spirit does not teach you how to be a carpenter or a doctor; you do not expect Him to do that; but He will never fail us as we seek Him and give place to Him in our circumstances, so that we are kept superior to them. We are to be christians at all times; the idea of a christian is that you are made that. The disciples were first called christians at Antioch. “In a little thou persuadest me to become a Christian”, says King Agrippa, Acts 26:28. It was but a little. But Paul says “such as I also am”. To be truly a christian in everyday life gives me victory.

^[p. 394] Ques The Holy Spirit coming in then, would you say the Lord had in mind that the disciples would carry on His features in testimony?

JT Exactly; it is the Spirit of Christ from that point of view. It is the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ that we all need for everyday life.

APT Romans 8 says, “In like manner the Spirit joins also its help”, Romans 8:26. That indicates how He serves us.

JT That is right. He makes you feel that He is personally in you and that you have a spirit of your own. You would not confuse your own spirit with the Holy Spirit. He witnesses with your spirit that you are one of God’s children. That makes His indwelling very palpable, very real.

AD In the end of John 15 the Lord says, “ye too bear witness”, John 15:27. What does that mean?

JT That refers to the apostles. The twelve were to bear witness according to their own commission. He says, “Because ye are with me from the beginning”. They had been with Christ during the time of His ministry; they had this opportunity of learning from Him, of knowing Him, but then the Holy Spirit would witness also. And this would imply such men as Stephen and Philip and Paul and all the rest of us down the line. The Holy Spirit witnesses too, as proceeding from the Father.

MO Is the Comforter a provisional thought?

JT Well, it is primarily in view of our circumstances as we are here below.

MO What are we to understand by His being with us for ever? Is that another character?

JT That is the Spirit Himself. “And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you”, John 14:16,17. The designation Comforter will no doubt continue, but as applied to the Lord and to the Spirit, it clearly refers to the period of the saints’ sojourn here below. We ought to become acquainted with the Spirit. Perhaps it is an expression that is not familiar, but we ought to become acquainted with Him, knowing Him, in us, as a distinct Person, distinct from ourselves, and He will be with us for ever.

WB-w In John 14 it is the Person — “the Spirit of truth”, but Romans 8:16 says, “the Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God”. We have the word ‘itself’ applied to the Spirit.

JT Yes, it is neuter. Well, that does not set aside the personality of the Spirit; it is a neuter thought as covering the Person. I should not make much of that; it is sometimes ‘he’ and sometimes ‘it’.

ANW Like the neuter pronoun applied to the Godhead in Colossians?

JT Quite so; “to reconcile all things to itself”, Colossians 1:20.

AR Would it be too much to say that we should use the Holy Spirit that we might draw from the Lord on high?

JT That is the way we ought to learn the truth. We have the expression “the love of the Spirit”; that there is One in us that loves us. It is not made so much of as the love of Christ and the love of God, but it is there, so that we do not forget that He is a divine Person, but has taken a lower place and keeps Himself out of view. And then we have “the communion of the Holy Spirit”, 2 Corinthians 13:14. It is very precious to keep these things in mind — what the Spirit is to us individually and especially in the assembly.

WFK How do we grieve the Spirit and quench Him?

JT By allowing fleshly ways and thoughts. You ^[p. 396] can quench Him by allowing natural feelings and thoughts in a meeting like this. Clericalism shuts Him out altogether.

Ques “But when he is come, the Spirit of truth, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak; and he will announce to you what is coming”, John 16:13. Could you give us some help on this?

JT We have just spoken of that. Take an occasion like this, without assuming that it is just so, but to illustrate. One says one thing that is according to the truth so far as he sees, depending upon the Spirit and subject to the brethren; another says another thing that bears on it, and so on. Well, the Holy Spirit is here in the keenest way to put all these things together in our souls according to the whole truth, so that there is guidance. It is not so many things said, but the result as one whole. We all ought to be on the alert to get the benefit of the presence of the Spirit as thus operating amongst us, as sent down from heaven by the Father and by the Lord Jesus. How feeling He is! He is the Spirit of truth and guides us into all the truth. So that in what we say, we ought to keep in mind that it should fit into the whole scope of truth.

JTJr In Acts 15 you would say they were guided into a right assembly judgment and nobody could gainsay it?

JT That is a good illustration of what is before us, and so they finished: “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us ...” Acts 15:28.

ANW It would seem that divine Persons are represented as having matters before them. It seems to read that way in that remarkable verse: “whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak”, John 16:13.

JT So that at a time like this there is the great reservoir of divine thought; the Holy Spirit is cognisant of all that, and He is in us and so you look for new ^[p. 397] thoughts, new phases of the truth, new touches and we all feel it when they come out.

Well, now we must finish with the third part of our subject, that is, “the Spirit of God”. What is to be noted in Genesis 1 is that the first mention of Him is as “the Spirit of God”, Genesis 1:2. Chaotic conditions had come into the creation, “the earth was waste and empty”. God never made it like that; He made it to be inhabited. He did not make it waste or empty, but it had become that, “and darkness was the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters”. The waters were part of the creation but they had got into a wrong setting; they engulfed everything, and the Spirit felt that. That is the first thing to notice about the Spirit of God, that He feels things from the divine side. If calamity or disaster happens, He feels it. He is on the divine side here; He is the Spirit of God; it is God Himself in this way, feeling what had happened.

CN What is the idea of hovering?

JT Well, I suppose, as it were: ‘What can be done with this?’ When Nehemiah came to Jerusalem he found chaos there. “And when Sanballat the Horonite, and Tobijah the servant, the Ammonite, heard of it, it grieved them exceedingly that there had come a man to seek the welfare of the children of Israel”. Then Nehemiah says, “And I came to Jerusalem, and was there three days. And I arose in the night, I and some few men with me — but I told no man what my God had put in my heart to do for Jerusalem — and there was no beast with me, except the beast that I rode upon. And I went out by night by the valley-gate, even toward the jackal-fountain, and to the dung-gate; and I viewed the walls of Jerusalem, which were in ruins, and its gates were consumed with fire”, Nehemiah 2:10 - 13. That is what is involved in the Spirit’s hovering over the face of the waters; as if to say. What damage has come about! And Nehemiah in the same felt the state of Jerusalem. It was ^[p. 398] in a dreadful condition and he went out by night to look at it, and he felt it. The Spirit of God felt it infinitely, what some being had done in devastating part of the creation of God.

CN And I suppose He is prepared to secure what there is, if there is anything at all to be gotten out of it, so to speak. He is prepared to do what He can to salvage the situation.

JT That is right. He is prepared to bring in a new order of things, so that the whole chapter is devoted to this. The first thing is God said, “Let there be light”, Genesis 1:3. That is to be taken into account, that the Spirit hovered. What is to be done? The first thing is there must be light. So if we apply it to a man in his unconverted state, the Spirit is hovering, and the first thing he needs is light.

APf Is it not like the Lord Jesus at the grave of Lazarus? He felt things.

JT That is right; He wept.

RWS The Spirit of God seems to have the capability of grieving over a long period of time. It is possibly suggested here, and also in connection with the public history of the failure of the church.

JT Quite so. Who can say how long He had been hovering over the waters? It is God in His wonderful patience and His consideration for His creation. That is really the question that would enter into this position. The next thing is God said, Let there be light. God began to operate. But the first thing is the feeling way in which He took account of the disaster, and I think that is what we should keep in mind at the present time; the disaster that has come about in the history of the assembly, and how it is to be met. God is ready to meet it in everyone of us.

Ques Would you say this feeling is seen at Nazareth? “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to preach glad tidings to the poor”, Luke 4:18.

^[p. 399] JT Quite so. It was operative in the Lord when He was here; what He did, He did by the Spirit of God. Now the contrast to that is the beautiful statement in Matthew 3. There is no need to hover over Jesus. All is perfect there. It says, “Jesus having been baptised, went up straightway from the water, and lo, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him”, Matthew 3:16. There is no hovering. The heavens are opened to Jesus, and He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and coming upon him. He is seen as the Object of heaven. The heavens are opened to Him here; showing that He was infinitely and perfectly delightful to the Father and the Spirit comes upon Him accordingly, and then the voice. There is no chaos now. It is the direct infinite contrast to Genesis 1. Genesis 1 is not hovering over the face of the darkness, it is hovering over material that God had made, but it is out of use. It had become lawless.

Ques Do you look at the flood on the earth as being chaotic in that sense? Noah sends out the dove, and it returns to the ark, but then after seven days it returns with an olive leaf plucked.

JT The flood was, of course, direct judgment from God. But the dove returning with “an olive-leaf plucked off” indicates that there was growth; the leaf was plucked off a tree. The Holy Spirit takes hold of what is living. And so here the heavens are opened to Jesus; there is no chaos there. Everything is infinitely delightful to heaven, and that enters into the inauguration of this dispensation. God begins with infinite perfectness in a Man; and then the Spirit of God coming in. It is here what Jesus saw Himself. And then you see the Spirit of God coming upon Him. The One that is perfectly capable of appreciating the heavens opened, and the Spirit coming down, perfectly capable, infinitely so, of appreciating all that.

APT Is there a somewhat synchronising thought in Philadelphia: “I have loved thee”, Revelation 3:9? As to whether that characteristically comes through.

JT I think so. There is correspondence with Jesus in Philadelphia. The assembly is of Himself and He loves her.

FNW Is that correspondence seen developed in Romans 8 in the progression there, where the feelings of the Spirit are seen, and His part with us. His help to our need; and conformation to God’s Son seen in us, and the glorifying of those whom He has justified — as if this line is reached?

JT That is very beautiful. And what we have said about the Lord as over against the chaotic condition of the material that God had created is worthy of special note. We have in Jesus infinite perfection, and heaven’s appreciation of Him is all, we may say, for Himself. That is, God would begin over again with One who perfectly appreciates what heaven does, what heaven values. And so when we come to the gospel, Romans teaches us how we are brought into accord with that, so that the Holy Spirit is in us, forming us so that we should be like Jesus. The section begins really with the glory of the Father. One has often thought of the first day of the week; the Father begins it. He raised Christ from the dead by His glory. The first day of the week is the immediate outcome of all that, and the Spirit comes into it, because the Lord Jesus breathes into the disciples and says, “Receive ye Holy Spirit”, John 20:22. So that there is perfect correspondence with Christ in that sense, in the saints receiving the breath of Jesus. Breathing into us is the most intimate transaction.

RWS That verse read in Matthew 3:16, “lo, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him: and behold, a voice out of the heavens saying ...” is as if to emphasise the joy in heaven and to call our attention to what is happening.

JT Yes, it is to Him, and then this is calling others’ ^[p. 401] attention to what is happening; we are brought into it in that way. Matthew has the assembly in mind. It is brought into infinite affection, a scene of reciprocal affection in divine Persons is in that; He is in us now, making us suitable to it, making us part of it.

AR You might say that in spite of the chaos that has come into the church’s history He is not hovering today over the face of the deep: I mean He is really in believers, is He not?

JT Quite so, but there are a lot of believers in that chaotic condition and the Spirit of God is concerned to get them out of it.

AR How would He work in them there?

JT Each of us who have been delivered out of it should be able to give an account of His service to us. You see how He waited for Cornelius and when the time came He fell upon “those who were hearing the word”, Acts 10:44. The Spirit secured them out of the world.

WAW In Acts 9, would you say, in regard to Paul, he was in a chaotic condition in darkness and the Lord came in and the scales fell from his eyes — a remarkable case?

JT Could anybody be in a more chaotic condition?

GVD Would you say a word about proving the spirits, “if they are of God”. “Hereby ye know the Spirit of God”, 1 John 4: 2.

JT “Every spirit which confesses Jesus Christ come in flesh is of God”, 1 John 4:2. That is the test — Jesus Christ come in flesh, that is the One upon whom the Holy Spirit came at His baptism, and we, as of God, confess Him come in that way. The Spirit of God in us confesses Christ in that way. It is the truth of Christ’s Person, the truth of the incarnation, the confession of it.

AR “No one can say. Lord Jesus, unless in the power of the Holy Spirit”, 1 Corinthians 12:3. And we say, “Abba Father” by the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:15. I was wondering whether, if the Holy Spirit had liberty ^[p. 402] in us, every brother would be functioning in the assembly.

JT I am sure that is the truth.

JHE “Hereby ye know the Spirit of God: every spirit which confesses Jesus Christ come in flesh is of God”. That is a new condition, a new relationship, is it not? It would dispel all thoughts of His sonship in eternity; it is a relationship into which He came.

JT It would. He is come in flesh. God had said to Him prophetically, “Thou art my Son; I this day have begotten thee”, Psalm 2:7.