DIVINE NAMES (12)
[p. 403] DIVINE NAMES (12)
Ephesians 3:14 - 19; Galatians 4:6,1; 1 Peter 1:11; 2 Corinthians 3:17 - 18
JT The brethren will be aware of the great subject that has been engaging us at these meetings. This is the last of the series, and the proposal is to read certain passages referring to the Holy Spirit. We have already considered the subject of the Holy Spirit; that is on the last occasion that we were together, but there are titles that were not then considered, and they will be under review now. The first is, the Spirit of the Father; the second, the Spirit of the Son; the third, the Spirit of Christ; and the fourth, the Spirit of the Lord. There are other titles that we have not mentioned; namely, the Spirit of grace and the Eternal Spirit. These may be referred to in our remarks.
It is thought that we should consider the Spirit of the Father first, as affording an opportunity to speak of Him in that relation as promoting fatherly feelings and affections amongst us — most important and most necessary, and perhaps rare. It is to be observed that the Father is mentioned here: “Of whom every family in the heavens and on earth is named”, Ephesians 3:15. The note, which helps, says, ‘There is a distinct connection between the words for Father and family’. As one of the families named, it is clear that we may share in the gain of the knowledge of the Father and the Father’s Spirit. For we are said to be “strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man”, Ephesians 3:16. John says, “See what love the Father has given to us, that we should be called the children of God”, 1 John 3:1. So we come directly into the service of the Spirit, and particularly the Father’s Spirit, Who strengthens us in the ‘inner man’.
LES Do you suggest that the Spirit of the Father is to permeate every family and morally become the light of each?
[p. 404] JT Well, whether every family will have Him as we have Him is questionable. We have the Spirit as indwelling, and He becomes in us the Spirit of the Father, the Spirit of the Son, and the Spirit of God. Every family will be energised by the Spirit in some sense.
Here, every family is mentioned, characteristic of Ephesians, so that we might have the full scope of the truth before us. In the next chapter we have, “One God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all”, Ephesians 4: 6. “In us all” has the immediate family in mind.
CAM Would you say that this is one of the points where Paul’s line of things touches on John’s line? Do we not usually think of the family matter when we think of John?
JT Well, he deals with the family in a characteristic way, beginning with this, “But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to be children of God”, John 1:12. That is the divine family: those who believe on His name, “who have been born, not of blood, nor of flesh’s will, nor of man’s will, but of God”, John 1:13.
ANW Is Ephesians 3:17 the result of the strengthening, or is it another phase of the apostle’s prayer, “that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts”?
JT ‘That’ would connect directly with the prayer, the bowing of the apostle’s knees; but it carries with it the idea of the Father’s Spirit strengthening us. It is in the power of that that the Christ dwells in our hearts through faith, and enlarges our view. “Being rooted and founded in love, in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height, and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge”, Ephesians 3:18,19. The prayer runs to the end of verse 19.
CAM So the apostle in praying thus for the saints would be in his own spirit in the good of what he is speaking of, is that the thought?
JT Clearly; “For this reason, I bow my knees”, Ephesians 3:14. In the reference to the bowing of his knees, he would have in mind the greatness of the truth that he was ministering to them, that they should be able to take it in.
AR Would you say something more as to His Spirit in the inner man, developing not only family feelings, but feelings in a mature way, fatherly feelings.
JT I thought that was what we might touch on particularly. One observes a great want of fatherly care and affection amongst us. There may be care, but not fatherly care. I believe this would indicate how these feelings may be acquired and exercised. It is in the inner man — clearly, a very inward thought.
AAT Do we get any indication of the Father’s feelings in Luke 15 — the way He greeted the son?
JT I think the fatherly feelings run right through the parable of the prodigal son. We do well to imitate what is seen there. The father ran to meet him. That would indicate the feelings, how urgent they were. There is certainly great need for such feelings; of course, also inclusive of motherly feelings. The young are so exposed, and so amenable too, to the influences that are about, damaging influences, that we need not only to rebuke them and correct them verbally, but to influence them.
ABP Would the Spirit of the Father be seen in Paul’s epistles to the Thessalonians?
JT Clearly. He began by regarding the assembly as “the assembly of Thessalonians in God the Father”, showing they had a great place in the Father’s heart, and Paul himself reflected this in his care of them, as a nurse her own children, he said.
CAM Is it right to think of the father idea in connection with Paul’s ministry and the mother thought with John?
JT Yes. We have both father and mother with [p. 406] Paul. He speaks about a nurse and her own children, which would be the skill of the nurse added to the affections of a mother; and then he said to the Corinthians, “For if ye should have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the glad tidings”, 1 Corinthians 4:15. As a father he had begotten them through the gospel.
ANW I wondered whether John 17 might be a very exalted instance of the working of the Father’s Spirit. “That the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them”, John 17:26. You, I think, suggested that the Father’s love for Christ being in our hearts affects our love for Him.
JT Yes, “may be in them and I in them”, John 17:26. Clearly the reflection of the Father’s love in our hearts bears on our love for Christ. It is not, of course, that we would have fatherly affections for Christ. That could not be; it is the strengthening of the affections that is in mind there.
Rem In Matthew 10 the Lord speaks of the Spirit of your Father speaking in you.
JT Just so; in conflict, in testimony.
FHL Does Paul in writing to Timothy suggest the spirit of elderhood underlies fatherhood as far as the practical side is concerned?
JT I am sure that is right. Elderhood is in line with fatherhood. The fact that the Spirit of the Father acts in us shows it is in ever-ready active testimony in service. The Spirit of the Father is ever ready.
GH Do we see the Spirit of the Father in the book of Proverbs, “My son”? ‘My son’ is frequent.
JT Quite so. We have often remarked that the book of Proverbs should be linked with Colossians 1: “translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love”, Colossians 1:13. Proverbs is really the son of the father’s love. Solomon is exercising fatherly qualities in that book. He addresses the youth as a father, and says, “For I was [p. 407] a son unto my father, tender and an only one in the sight of my mother”, Proverbs 4:3. Of course, that is fully seen in the Lord Jesus.
Ques Would “the inner man” be more the spiritual side of the believer developing in us fatherly affections inwardly? Is that the thought here?
JT I think so. The inner man is a full thought. You have such expressions as the new man, the old man, and the outward man, but the inner man is a striking expression and corresponds with David’s building ‘inward’. It is an allusion to the man’s inner exercises, not childish exercise but the exercise of a man.
RWS Why is the thought of power linked with the Father’s Spirit?
JT I think here it is because of the need — what the apostle had in mind was this immensity of range of thought, of intelligence. “In order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power by his Spirit in the inner man; that the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts, being rooted and founded in love, in order that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height”, Ephesians 3:16 - 18. “That the Christ may dwell, through faith in your hearts”; it is not merely a mental grasp, but in the heart; as in Ephesians 1:18, “the eyes of your heart”. The affections are brought into the truth and there is power inwardly to lay hold of the great range of things in mind here.
LES It would be to effect increased spiritual capacity to take on the greatness of the economy.
JT That is the thought; there is such an immense range of things in the apostle’s mind. He wanted them to know how much he knew about the mystery, Ephesians 3:4; and he knew well enough it was by the Father’s Spirit he was able to grasp the great truth he had; and he wished they might be able to grasp the great range of truth he had. So that it raises the thought with us as to [p. 408] whether we are just content to use our minds in the laying hold of the truth or whether we bring our hearts into it, affording scope to the Spirit.
ABP Would it be right to link on the thought of the Spirit of the Father with the camels in connection with Rebecca? We noticed that the reference to the master was in almost in each case to Abraham rather than to Isaac, until the transaction had been completed. I wondered if the thought of power for movement in that way linked on with Abraham in the type?
JT The camels as a type of the carrying power were provided by Abraham, only the servant took them.
RWS In some of our minds, I must confess in my own, I have thought of the functioning of the Father’s Spirit in us in connection with the second part of the morning meeting. Is that limiting the Father’s Spirit?
JT Well the Spirit may be viewed as in the whole service; first as the Holy Spirit; and then, the Spirit of the Lord, I should say, coming out of the covenant, where there is liberty; and the Spirit of Christ, which would work out in Bridegroom feelings in the Lord, and our response; and then there is the Spirit of adoption, which is our response in sonship. The Spirit of the Father would, no doubt, be to enlarge our view in assembly service. That is the link here. It is enlargement of view, “the breadth and length and depth and height; and to know the love of the Christ which surpasses knowledge; that ye may be filled even to all the fulness of God”, Ephesians 3:18,19. The Father’s Spirit gives enlargement of view and capacity to take in. The Father is “over all, and through all, and in us all”, Ephesians 4:6.
AR Does this suggestion bring you into the centre of the spiritual realm?
JT Yes. You want to be with the Father in what He has in mind. It is said that God is to be all in all. That is the great end, according to what we have had [p. 409] already in these meetings. I think it would be well to note it, that the point here is power, only incidentally, as I might say, the development of fatherly feelings which would necessarily come out in the possession of the Father’s Spirit. Generally here, the point is power, so that we might grasp the divine range of thought, that we might be able to take in the whole realm in which God is operating, in which Christ is operating. The Christ dwelling in our hearts is Christ viewed as operating in the whole domain of divine thought and purpose.
Ques Is that seen in the old economy in Exodus 15 — “my strength and song is Jah”, Exodus 15:2?
JT That was the highest note they reached. We already spoke of that in our readings. It is a special spiritual touch, and it links on with the highest note in the service of God in the Old Testament.
JTJr Would there be a link with Numbers 1 — the fathers’ houses, and then the thought of the princes in connection with those houses, the power in the princes?
JT Quite so; the princes refer to personalities. ‘Prince’ usually denotes personality, and that would develop into this. Judah, the leading tribe in the four groups of three each of the tribes, would exhibit the idea of prince.
JTJr Before you have the ark spoken of in Numbers, you have the fatherly thought brought in, Numbers 3. I was wondering whether it did not connect with this chapter, the Father’s Spirit is strengthening us for the understanding of the Christ as in the divine realm. Numbers opens that up, does it not, the great sphere of testimony?
JT Yes. And the order of the tribes under the princes around the tabernacle of witness involves fatherly qualities.
ANW Why was the Spirit not content to say strengthened by His Spirit? Why does He emphasise power so peculiarly — strengthened with power by His Spirit?
JT [p. 410] He wants to stress the thought of power. The word ‘strengthened’ of course involves power, so that the word ‘power’ is to augment the idea; and how it is to be effected with us — that is, by His Spirit in the inner man. So that we are thoroughly in the thing; and then with a view to the operations of God in Christ. The Christ is the One by whom He does things.
Ques In 2 Timothy we read, “For God has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, and of love, and of wise discretion”, 2 Timothy 1:7. Do we get those three features in this chapter?
JT Yes. There is a great stress laid here on the idea of power; strengthened with power by His Spirit; in view of the domain in which the divine operations are carried on, and by whom they are carried on, that is, through the Christ; that He should dwell in our hearts. “That the Christ may dwell, through faith, in your hearts”, Ephesians 3:17. It is still a faith matter; we are not in it literally; we are not in the realm literally. It is a faith matter, but He is dwelling in our hearts. It is the Christ. The article is intended to be there, it is there in the original. It is often in the original though not used in the English, but it is evidently to be used here, because it is, you might say — “I have found David, the son of Jesse, a man after my heart, who shall do all my will”, Acts 13:22 (cf. Psalm 89). The allusion is to the One who did all the will of God. The reference to the great realm of divine operations.
Ques At the end of the chapter the thought is brought forward of what He is able to do. “But to him that is able to do far exceedingly above all which we ask or think”, and then it goes on to say, “according to the power which works in us”, Ephesians 3:20. I was wondering if that is not all working up to the doxology.
JT Clearly so. That is a final word. The last two verses are the doxology, bringing the apostle’s own feelings into the matter. A doxology usually is that, to [p. 411] show how thoroughly one is affected by what he is saying. You will notice, it is the power that works in us. The power is already there, but it is to be stimulated.
CAM Speaking of power, in Colossians it works in the believer in connection with combat, whereas here the power would seem to be on account of the immensity and greatness of the place we are in. Is that right?
JT Yes. It is the immensity of the sphere of divine operations; that we should apprehend Christ as operating there, and that we should know it in its dimensions. Indeed, we have remarkable dimensions — “that ye may be fully able to apprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height”, Ephesians 3:18. That is, four dimensions, which is unusual.
ANW The four dimensions indicate that those who value those measurements are in the centre of the whole system.
JT Just so. And the Christ dwelling in our hearts by faith, in the immensity of the domain — is the steadying thought. His Person engages your heart on the principle of faith. You are strong enough or great enough to admit Him that place when you see what a place He has in the divine domain. He must have a place to dwell in my heart.
JTJr Would Paul represent that in the long discourse he made in Acts 20? Would he represent this great idea that the saints are to be occupied with Him? But one is overpowered; he is not able to follow the discourse.
JT The power of sleep over him is greater than the inward power he has. And he falls. The power seen here steadies you and enables you to stand up against sleep or whatever else it be.
AR Is it commensurate with verse 19 of chapter 1? “What the surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe, according to the working of the might of [p. 412] his strength, in which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead”, Ephesians 1:17 That is the first prayer, which is more objective. “The God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, would give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the full knowledge of him, being enlightened in the eyes of your heart, so that ye should know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what the surpassing greatness of his power towards us who believe, according to the working of the might of his strength, in which he wrought in the Christ in raising him from among the dead”, Ephesians 1: There is what is operating towards us. That is more the objective side of the truth, which you lay hold of through “the eyes of your heart”, Ephesians 1:18. Chapter 3 is the second great prayer of the apostle’s. It is the subjective side; it is the power not simply toward us but which works in us.
LES Is the Spirit in the inner man to correspond with the riches of His glory?
JT Quite so. Being strengthened with power is preceded by, “in order that he may give you according to the riches of his glory”. That is an immense measure — “according to the riches of his glory”. You are touching there a point of the deepest interest, because it was the Father’s glory that raised Christ from the dead. His deepest affections were active there.
LES The power that works in us corresponds to that?
JT That is the idea. You are in the midst of immensity, and yet finiteness, so that we are not lost in it; but we are filled unto all the fulness of God. We are in immensity as to domain, and yet it is finite, which is from our side because it is measurable — length, breadth, depth, and height. Filled even unto all the fulness of God involves infiniteness. We have finite thoughts as regards our own ability to know the breadth and length [p. 413] and depth and height; but to be filled unto all the fulness of God means that I am steady in the full revelation of God in Christ; I am not lost in it. Christ is the centre of the whole scene so that I am steady there but filled, no void anywhere. Filled even to all the fulness of God.
AR Is fulness revelation?
JT Fulness is revelation. It is what God is. It is what He is, only come out, what comes out. The word ‘fulness’ is used very much in Scripture.
FSC It says, “fully able to apprehend”, why not comprehend?
JT Well, ‘comprehend’ is a greater thought. ‘Apprehend’ is more limited. ‘Comprehend’ is that you can go round a thing. I can apprehend that the world was framed by the word of God, but I cannot comprehend it. It is a finite thought, but the worlds are greater than any creature mind can take in in the sense of comprehension, which is going round the thing fully.
TW Are there conditions in myself necessary for this strengthening to take place?
JT Well, the moral conditions, of course, are laid in Romans, touched on in Ephesians, but the immediate results are by the Father’s Spirit, operating according to the riches of His glory. The point here is power to take in these great things; the immensity of the domain, and the Christ operating in that domain.
Rem The apostle speaks of being rooted and founded in love. Love is to permeate the family.
JT You cannot be in these things without love. You must include all the saints in this — the breadth and length and depth and height. When we come to the heavenly city, we see the full substantiality of the thing. It is a cube. What is before us here is what was reached in the down-stooping of Christ — “He that descended is the same who has also ascended up above all the heavens”, Ephesians 4:10.
LES I was thinking, in order to take on this great [p. 414] thought, we need to take account of the saints according to divine workmanship — all the saints.
JT Quite so; Colossians lays the basis for this. You have love for all; not only those that are local, those that might be commendable to you, but “towards all the saints”, Colossians 1:4. I think that lays the basis for Ephesians.
Now the counterpart of this phase of our subject, the Father’s Spirit, is the Spirit of the Son. “God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father”. He cries Abba, Father. It is not simply here the Spirit of adoption, but the Spirit of God’s Son.
WFK Is the Spirit of the Son the idea of helping us in worship?
JT Yes; The Spirit of God’s Son enables us to cry Abba Father. We cry Abba Father by Him. Here, it is He that cries Abba Father.
Rem According to what our brother says, certain work has preceded this. The apostle says, “because ye are sons”.
JT Yes, we already have the light. The Spirit of God’s Son operates in the light. We must have light preceding the incoming of the Spirit. Of course it is by Him we are born anew, but then as received by us, He operates by us as we are in the light. The light that we have, which comes through the gospel, is the basis of His operations as dwelling in us.
WFK Is this worship as of sons?
JT Well, the Spirit cries Abba Father which enables you to worship the Father in spirit and truth; but it is the Spirit of God’s Son here — not simply the Spirit of adoption but the Spirit of God’s Son.
ANW Not only in the inner man but in the heart; the emotions and affections are brought into play.
CAM Would you say this is arrived at by the way the truth in the gospels comes into your soul; you grow in that?
JT Yes. Romans is the great basic epistle and lays [p. 415] the foundation for all these great truths. The gospels generally run with and confirm the epistles, but it is fulness of manhood in the gospels. It is what came out in Christ.
Rem This seems closely allied with the thought of God sending forth His Son. The same thought is carried forward in God sending forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts.
JT Yes; the Son has to come first. “God sent forth his Son, come of woman, come under law, that he might redeem those under law, that we might receive sonship”, Galatians 4:4,5. We receive sonship first, and then the Spirit of God’s Son to support it in us. That is what is taught here; so that the idea of sonship comes into your soul as a matter of light. Hence it is said in chapter 3, “For ye are all God’s sons by faith in Christ Jesus”, Galatians 3:26. That is the light of the thing. “But because ye are sons. God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father”. Galatians 4:6.
ABP When Jacob took on Ephraim and Manasseh, adopting them as his sons, was it not because of his love for Joseph and is that reflected in our position as in adoption?
JT It would be. He honoured Joseph; he gave him one portion above his brethren; but then we must also remember that Jacob was enriched in sons by the elevation of these two to sonship. It seems to lay a basis for our position now. Redemption brought the Jewish believers into sonship, but it has also brought gentile believers into sonship. That is, we are elevated to the full place of sons. We are not subordinate to Israel, as the nations will be in the millennium.
LES It would be seen in Genesis 22 in regard of Abraham, where it is said, “Take now thy son, thine only son, whom thou lovest, Isaac”, Genesis 22:2. And then later on when Isaac spoke to Abraham and said, “My father! and he said, Here am I, my son”, Genesis 22:7.
[p. 416] JT That is a beautiful scene in type; the relation between the father and the son, and what a true son is, “... whom thou lovest”. Of course, there it is typically Christ, but when we come to Jacob, the saints are brought into sonship. In his twelve sons you have the idea but then he says these other two are to be the same as Reuben and Simeon. They are on the same level. Therefore, God is enriched in what Paul has brought in. It is he really who develops the great truth of sonship for us.
AR Does he stress in his epistle the idea not only of relationship with God as Father, but the wholly right seed which involves a mother?
JT Yes; that is what you come to in Galatians. They had become mongrels, taking on other mothers; Jerusalem on earth which is in bondage with her children. That is what they were going back to, and that is where christendom is. All these systems are in bondage with their children. But Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. The assembly abstractly is our mother, based on sonship.
LES What is in your mind as to God, as sending out the Spirit of His Son?
JT Well, it is akin to the Spirit’s service in shedding abroad the love of God in our hearts. That is, it is the whole scope of the domain into which the sons have come. Here in this distant western land the Spirit of God’s son is available; God sent Him out; Sonship belonged to Israel; “to whom belonged the adoption”, Romans 9:4. “Let my son go”, Exodus 4:23. That is where you see the thought taking form; but it has come out among the gentiles, that we might receive sonship.
Ques Does John 17 set forth the spirit of the Son? I was thinking of the way in which the Lord speaks to the Father in that chapter in the liberty of a Son. All the sons are able to address Him. Abba, Father, is in all the intimacy of the [p. 417] relationship.
JT Quite so. That chapter develops what we are speaking of, especially verse 22, where the Lord says, “And the glory which thou hast given me I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one; I in them and thou in me”, John 17:22. I believe He alludes to sonship; He imparted sonship to them. Now this great thought has come out among the gentiles; we also have received it.
JTJr Is the thought seen in Joseph? “These are the generations of Jacob. Joseph ...”, Genesis 37:2. Is that the idea of sonship? It comes in there immediately; the father loved him, Genesis 37:3.
JT Quite so. In the sense mentioned he is the only one in view until you come to chapter 46 where the others are mentioned. Joseph; but it is Christ rejected, as in sonship, and loved by His Father. According to Joseph’s history, the others do not come into it until he is owned; until he identifies himself with them. The gentiles come in after that in Ephraim and Manasseh, Jacob elevates them to sonship.
AR In Ephesians you have the spiritual realm, whereas Galatians says, “Christ has set us free in freedom”, Galatians 5:1. Does that suggest that I am at liberty to move forward?
JT Quite so. He has set us free in freedom; that is, the freedom in which He is Himself. “Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me”, Matthew 11:29. The Jews had it. It belonged to them; “whose is the adoption”, Romans 9:4, and the Lord Jesus came in among them in sonship and manifested it among them. It was the first thing brought out in His public ministry: Heaven owning Him as Son. So that He was there before them in that relation and they were to be brought into it, as John 20 contemplates, but later gentiles come into it. I think Ephraim and Manasseh point to the gentiles coming in; we are lifted into that: the Spirit of God’s Son in our hearts sustaining us in it. The proof of it is He cries, Abba, Father. The Spirit attests real sonship in [p. 418] the saints. When He cries Abba, Father in me who can question my relations with God? The Holy Spirit is attesting it Himself.
APT Is it prominent now, do you think, in relation to the Lord’s own use of these words under pressure? Do you think the brethren are using this word, “Abba, Father” now as under pressure?
JT As in Gethsemane, just so; that is where it comes out beautifully in the very words. Mark quotes them. In Gethsemane, the Lord uses these exact words to his Father.
APT Should we not get into this realm now?
JT I think the pressure is intended to force us into it, for He says, Abba, Father. You are known up there as one through whom those words come to the Father’s ears. It establishes us as sons. Who can question it if the Holy Spirit says in any one of us, Abba, Father?
WFK Is the word Abba for sons only?
JT Yes. It is the Son that used these words first; both in Galatians and Romans, Paul brings it in. In Galatians the Spirit cries Abba, Father, and in Romans 8 believers cry Abba, Father by Him. That would give them a status in heaven. The Lord Jesus used the words Abba, Father in the hours of greatest pressure, that is, in Gethsemane.
Ques No one can say Lord Jesus except by the Spirit. Would it be also true here that our distinction as sons is that we are able to say, Abba, Father?
JT Exactly.
And now to come to the Spirit of Christ, which is another thing that runs parallel with these appellations of the Spirit we have been dwelling on. In the verse read in 1 Peter, “Concerning which salvation prophets, who have prophesied of the grace towards you, sought out and searched out; searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ which was in them pointed out, testifying before of the sufferings which belonged to Christ, and the glories after these”, 1 Peter 1:10,11. This term “the Spirit of Christ”, we have also in Philippians- — “the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ”, meaning that we need that. We need it as a sort of supply with us, but Peter contemplates a wider thought: that which was operating in the Old Testament; how the Spirit of Christ operated in servants, the prophets, even before the Lord Jesus became Man, the Spirit of Christ was operating.
ABP Does this suggest the great extent in which divine Persons anticipated what was coming in, not only in Their minds, but feelingly?
JT In the Prophets, and Psalms, and even Noah, it is what you might call a retroactive operation; that is, the Spirit that was anticipated would be in Christ as Man down here, already operating in man before that; Peter says, “being put to death in flesh, but made alive in the Spirit, in which also going he preached to the spirits which are in prison, heretofore disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah”, 1 Peter 3:18 - 20. This reference gives us a wide outlook into the past, how the Spirit in this relation was operating in preaching, and in other ways in the Old Testament.
LES Would there be a link between the spirit of prophecy and the testimony of Jesus?
JT That is the same thing. It is the spirit of prophecy there. Here, it is the Spirit of Christ testifying in any of the prophets. It is also the spirit of prophecy.
FHL Would it link with the opening of Hebrews 1, where God spoke in many ways in the prophets.
JT That is right. It is how He did speak, through the Spirit of Christ in them. We are told here, “sought out and searched out; searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ which was in them pointed out, testifying before of the sufferings which belonged to Christ, and the glories after these. To whom it was revealed, that not to themselves but to you they ministered those things”, 1 Peter 1:10 - 12. So they were in a very extraordinary state. Take Isaiah, he saw the glory of Christ and spoke of Him. Could He speak of the glory of Christ as we speak of Him? Could He even use the expression, the Spirit of Christ? He was very limited, but evidently he prayed to God and sought out diligently to find out what the things were that he himself was prophesying about, as much as to say, I am saying these things, but I do not understand them; and he prayed that he might understand them.
ABP When we think of the diligence that moved these men of old, such as Abraham, who rejoiced to see the day of Christ, should it not stimulate us to have a deeper sense of the joy that divine Persons have in men approaching now in the fulness of things?
JT Surely; we have the Spirit of Christ in us now abidingly; He was in them, too, but not abidingly. He would be in them, of course, as they prophesied. Even in a man like Balaam, the Spirit came upon him and he prophesied, but the reference here is to the characteristic prophets, the real prophets. The Spirit of Christ was actually operating in them, although it was not the time of understanding, but they were prophesying beforehand and had to await the fulness of what they were saying.
APT I was thinking of where one was brought in last, Micah, and one smote him on the face, but he went on with his prophecy. Was that not like the Spirit of Christ?
JT It was a fellow prophet that smote him, but he went on with his prophesying and saw the Lord.
RWS Would you distinguish between the Spirit of Christ which was in them, and the Spirit came upon them?
JT Yes. Although the Spirit operated in Balaam He was not characteristically in Balaam. It was just for the moment. Balaam was a wicked man. Here the allusion is to the characteristic prophets. “Concerning which salvation prophets, who have prophesied of the grace towards you, sought out and searched out; searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ which was in them pointed out, testifying before of the sufferings which belonged to Christ, and the glories after these”, 1 Peter 1:10,11. That would be the characteristic prophets of the Old Testament in whom the Spirit spoke, but they did not understand. Still it was the Spirit of Christ, and we can go back now and read it with full intelligence.
RWS If He was upon them it would be just power, but in them would form some feature of what came out in Christ.
JT I think so. They foreshadow the feelings and affections of Christ. We can easily see that in examining their history.
ANW Peter’s reference seems to be more personal regarding the Holy Spirit. Indeed; the definite article is there, where it is not in Romans 8.
JT ‘Pointed out’. That is He is the One that is operating Himself in them.
LES Your reference to Isaiah is very helpful. Peter must have had a great sense of the glories Isaiah opened up, for he speaks of the sufferings of Christ and His glory.
JT It is a beautiful expression, “the sufferings which belonged to Christ, and the glories after these”, 1 Peter 1:11. The government of God is in view in Peter’s epistles.
FHL Would it come out in Psalm 22?
JT It would. David is also called a prophet.
Ques Are these all atoning sufferings, or do they include all the sufferings of Christ?
JT I think all are contemplated. The atoning sufferings would insure ‘the glories after these’.
CAM It would include such a line of thought as Isaiah 53?
[p. 422] JT It would. John quotes Isaiah, that very chapter, and also chapter 6. Chapter 6 is Christ’s glory as exalted, and chapter 53 is the moral glory of Christ, what shone in His sufferings.
AC-r I was going to refer to Simeon in Luke. It says he was a just and pious man, and the Spirit came upon him, and it was said to him by the Spirit that he should not die until he had seen the Lord’s Christ; and then as he entered into the temple he was in the Spirit. What does all that have reference to?
JT It is to bring out that priesthood was there. He was not a son of Aaron as far as Scripture shows, but the fact that he was moved by the Holy Spirit brings out that he was a real priest, such as Luke’s gospel contemplates.
There is just one other thought, and that is “the Spirit of the Lord” in 2 Corinthians 3. “Now the Lord is the Spirit, but where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit”, 2 Corinthians 3:17,18. This is a title of the Spirit that is very important, because it implies liberty in the assembly in the service of God; inward liberty. But it is the Spirit of the Lord; there is implied subjection in the part you are taking.
RWS Is that the order — subjection, and then liberty, and then as we had in the first scripture, power?
JT Yes; that is the order. Here it develops into transformation in us. That is, you can see that we begin with the highest note. Power working in the inner man; it is the Spirit of the Father; but here it is transformation. “But we all, looking on the glory of the Lord with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit”, 2 Corinthians 3:18. It is really the lowest rung of the ladder, as we might say, in what we are speaking of, but it is a very [p. 423] essential feature to have before us in the service of God, especially for young people. The part we take in the assembly is in subjection to the Lord, and yet we have liberty. It is not fleshly liberty, nor liberty merely assumed, but liberty by the Spirit of the Lord. The Spirit promotes liberty that is acceptable in the assembly.
Ques Does this not refer to two Persons in the Godhead? That is the Lord is the Spirit. Would that be the Lord personally there, and the Spirit of the Lord would be the Spirit Himself?
JT Quite so. “The Lord is the Spirit” is a remarkable statement. A scripture that corroborates it is “the last Adam a quickening spirit”, 1 Corinthians 15:45. So that the Lord Himself may be called a Spirit, and yet He says, He has flesh and bones. That is to bring out how He operates spiritually as in the assembly. Here it is the Lord the Spirit, it is a question of His authority. But the last Adam is more what He is in manhood, the Head of humanity; the humanity that survives eternally, receiving its being through Him as a quickening Spirit.
ABP Is this the point at which the young brothers should feel freest in service?
JT It is for them particularly, starting to take part in the assembly or in ministry, that they are subject to the Lord. You are timid, perhaps, and as you stand up you are not quite sure of yourself, but the Lord graciously imparts a sense of confidence and liberty. The Spirit of the Lord gives you liberty, but you do not allow your own mind or feelings rein at all. You have got before you the principle of subjection.
ABP I was wondering why it is that many of our young brethren seem to be freer to participate at the end of the meeting.
JT I often feel at the prayer meeting that they would be freer if they took part with the elder brethren. The Lord is operating Himself as a Spirit, so that the idea of authority is combined with the idea of spiritual [p. 424] power. This is, of course, for all, but especially for young brethren.
AR What about those that do not take any part?
JT Well, they are in that sense, dumb. Luke stresses the importance of speaking. The Lord said to the young man of Nain, ‘wake up’. And he sat up and began to speak. The Lord touched the bier. I should say any brother who does not take part in the assembly has never been touched spiritually. The last Adam is a quickening spirit, because the Lord touched the bier where the young man was. The young man sat up and began to speak. All this enters into what we are saying.
FHL According to the first letter, you cannot even say Lord Jesus except by the Holy Spirit.
JT That links up with what is before us, because of the danger of the fleshly mind taking part in the assembly. Think of the possibility of a man’s speaking by any other spirit in the assembly!
CN If I understand all that has been coming out, in the first instance, there is power to establish me in the divine realm; that is the first scripture. Then saying Abba, Father is establishing my relationships up there; and then the speaking in the prophets would establish my faith in the prophetic scriptures — that it was not man that spoke but the Holy Spirit; and then this last one is liberty in the assembly. Is that what I should understand?
JT That is a very good epitome of what we have had. There are most important lessons in these four appellations of the Spirit of God.
AR What do you say about ‘looking’, 2 Corinthians 3:18?
JT It is a question of the mind: we go from glory to glory. The assembly suggests a realm of glory to glory. We take on glory by looking at the Lord, as our scripture says, “We all, looking on the glory of the Lord, with unveiled face, are transformed according to the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord the Spirit”. My part is to look on Him. His part is to do this changing. There is the inner thought of transforming, the metamorphosis that takes place in the person, a real change takes place. That is what is contemplated, and you can see the necessity for it, because we are naturally so ugly. We all need to come into this transformation; thus the glory of Christ is reflected in us.
Ques Tell me something as to the ‘unveiled face’?
JT I think the allusion is to Christ’s face. You can see His full countenance, that lovely face in which the glory of God shines. What is there is to be reflected in each of us leading up to the thought that we are to be transformed to His body of glory in literality. Here, it is moral change in the assembly.