LIFE (1)
[p. 280] LIFE (1)
ANW Would you mind saying a word explaining what you mean by life in its present aspect?
JT I was thinking of the way it is presented in the Scriptures. In the Old Testament, the synoptic gospels and Paul’s epistles, it is generally presented as a future blessing, as answering to the mind of God for the future; being definite blessing which He commands; whereas John brings it in as a present thing, so that one has it on the principle of faith, agreeing with the well of water springing up into everlasting life. I thought that is perhaps what we need — to see the thing in its present availability, so that whilst the thought of life is varied as applying to vegetables, cattle, fishes, birds and man, we have it in its wide range in the material creation. John brings it within the compass of intelligent affection where it can be apprehended by those who love the Lord. “In him was life” is the statement here. In his epistle, John dwells on the family idea, that is those who loved the Lord and were near Him and had to do with Him; they saw Him with their eyes and handled Him with their hands, showing that He was available to them. It was not something at a distance or that which required investigation by scientific knowledge, but it was in a living Person, seen, heard and handled. That makes it very tangible, too, for us who love the Lord. It is not something theoretical but practical and substantial. That is what John would emphasise, hence he introduces the subject of life early in his gospel.
AFM Would you mind distinguishing for us between life as breathed into man’s nostrils by Jehovah Elohim, and the proposition of life as under [p. 281] law, then what we have in the Spirit, as in Romans 8, and what you have just brought before us?
JT I suppose the breathing in Genesis 2 suggests that God would be on intimate terms with man, breathing into his nostrils the breath of life. There was no such intimate transaction in the other features of creation, although life was there: the earth was caused to bring forth grass, herbs and fruit-trees, that was at the command of God. The Lord says in John 12: 50 in regard to eternal life, that it is the Father’s commandment. Again it says, “Let the waters swarm”. It was all God’s fiat. So that life in its variety of forms comes into evidence by His word. It was all a result of the word or commandment. On the third day it is vegetable life. On the fifth day you have two species of creatures, the one inhabiting the waters, the other the air, they are marked by the principle of development outside of themselves. Then the remainder on the sixth day, the beast of the earth after their kind, cattle and creeping things. That is another kind of life, all at the command of God’s word. It was what was in His mind to create. He might have made one kind only, but He made many kinds. Then we have man, and the counsel being taken in respect of him, and God’s intimate relations with him, so that whilst he is a living soul in common with others, he is made a living soul by the divine breath. Jehovah Elohim breathed into his nostrils the breath of life — a most intimate transaction, which indicates what He had in mind, that man was to participate, so to speak, in His own life. That is how the thing stands in Genesis in relation to the creation, and undoubtedly implies that God would have variety of life.
AFM Adam’s life was forfeited through sin. Then there was the proposition of life by keeping the law: a man that did those things would live by them. I thought it might help us if you would say a word [p. 282] upon this, and also in regard to life in the Spirit, as in Romans 8.
JT Our brother was referring to life on the principle of law keeping, and to its bearing in relation to the Spirit. I suppose the law demonstrated the sinfulness of man because he transgressed it; he disobeyed the commandment; but it also demonstrated his dead state, he was simply lifeless. He had no power, like the man of John 5. It says the law “was weak through the flesh”, Romans 8: 3.
WCG Do you think that verses 29 - 34 would suggest the service of Christ to restore man’s intimacy? You mentioned that breathing into his nostrils indicated intimacy.
JT That is very interesting. Our brother’s thought links on with that. In Romans 8, through the weakness of the flesh, not only the sinfulness of it, God could not give what He promised by the law, it was weak through the flesh. Man was totally unable to fulfil the law; it not only convicted him as a transgressor, but exposed him as impotent, like the man at the pool, who said, “I have not a man”, John 5: 7.
WCG Our chapter touches upon Christ’s service Godward. The Lamb of God takes away the sin of the world, and it is His service to us to baptise us with the Holy Spirit.
JT Romans works it out showing how you reach that point. It brings out the guilt of the transgressor and the impotency of man’s flesh. It says, “For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, having sent his own Son, in likeness of flesh of sin, and for sin, has condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit”, Romans 8: 3, 4. Then the same chapter shows that the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is [p. 283] life and peace; the Spirit is that to us. He brings us into intimacy of life, so that we have breath. Not only have we the breathing into us, but there is the breath in the christian, for he says, “Abba, Father”, by the Spirit. He recognises his relation with God in intimacy, and that opens up the way of approach to God in worship, the result of the service of the Son.
WCG What precedes that in Romans corresponds with the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. He serves God in accomplishing divine righteousness, and makes way for service from us in the gift of the Spirit.
JT In regard to, “In him was life”, the life showed itself. You see how life appears in the varied features of creation; and science is largely occupied with that. But here you have life in a Person, and that is the great theme for faith; the intelligent inquiry of those who love the Lord would be, How may I discover it? Well, John the baptist says, “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know”. The Lord was not moving as yet. The substance of life was there, but it was not yet moving so as to be taken cognisance of by intelligent persons, but now He is moving, that is the reason for suggesting verse 29, for life is discerned in movement. Life is discerned in the varied forms in which it is seen under man’s eye, but now it is seen in a Person. He stood among them, but they did not know Him.
CAM “The light of men” would involve what you have stated.
JT Quite. It is a question of men, not of any special class, and it is a question of the thing itself not as the result of investigation, but in shining. The light is to be apprehended on the principle of shining, and the principle of shining is on the principle of movement, so that by movement you have this [p. 284] radiation. It is seen as emanating from Christ, as you begin to inquire into it.
AFM It is there in its source?
JT Yes, in the way of life. That is the reason why I think John’s gospel is so appropriate in taking up the subject of life, because it gives you the thing in a Person in whom it is in no way dimmed. It is there in the source of it.
WCG “In him was life” might be paraphrased ‘In Him was the fountain of love’.
JT It is seen in that way. The Lord was standing among them, then He moves, and John the baptist is the first to see the thing and give it a name, so that he becomes the model. He saw the Lord coming to him.
ARS When Job was longing for a mediator, had he any idea of life?
JT Yes, he had, for he says, “I know that my Redeemer liveth, and the Last, he shall stand upon the earth”, Job 19: 25.
ARS He looked for a man. In John’s gospel the Man has appeared.
JT That helps, because life coming in enforces what God is in creation. God Himself comes in for Job and follows up Elihu in calling attention to the creation, ending up with a description of two great beings, one of whom He calls behemoth, the chief of the ways of God, which is a very significant term, and he was so designated, for life displayed itself in him; all his power was in his loins. Then He speaks of another creature whom He calls leviathan, who is king over all the proud beasts. These represent certain features in creation that were intended of God to affect Job, and they did, because as soon as God finishes, Job says, “I know that thou canst do everything”, and that includes His working in resurrection. That is to say, the power of life is there, and that is [p. 285] very wide.
ARS Would you say that before Genesis 3, where man sins, there was not the necessity for life as we now have it? Man disobeyed and was told he must die, and now God brings in eternal life.
JT The thing was there before sin came in. The idea was there in the breath that was breathed into Adam, and then the tree of life was in the garden; the testimony was furnished, but the presence of death made the necessity of life evident.
In verse 29 where the baptist saw Jesus coming to him, that coming had to do with His death as come in flesh. John knew that that matter had to be settled; sin must be removed. It was the first form of life’s movement, that was light. John the evangelist in his gospel, sets things in astronomical relations. The first idea is movement; light is radiated by movement. What did this mean to the baptist? It meant the Lord was able to solve the whole problem of good and evil.
GWH-r Hence in the garden there were both the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
JT Quite.
JS Would you regard “the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us” as movement?
JT It was in the movement but the light was not shining as yet. So that John says, “In the midst of you stands, whom ye do not know” (verse 26).
Rem Coming into the world He sheds light on every man.
JT What follows “the Word became flesh” is “we have contemplated his glory”. That is radiation.
Ques Something to be seen?
JT Yes, persons are there and are beholding the thing. Take Moses: he saw the bush was not consumed, and when God saw the interest of Moses. He says, “Moses, Moses”. You observe the thing, and that gives [p. 286] you distinction.
ANW How far does verse 5 go: “The light appears in darkness, and the darkness apprehended it not”?
JT That is abstract; it refers to the whole ministry of Christ on earth. The condition of man was such that although the light appeared, the darkness did not apprehend it.
CAM This light coming in dispels the darkness and confusion in the various characters, where the rays of it reach them.
JT That is what I think we may see. John the baptist is singled out as the first one to see it. He saw Jesus coming to him. Now that meant a good deal, John knew what He represented exactly. He himself had baptised, he was administering death typically in his own ministry.
AFM If in John’s statement in regard of the sin of the world being taken away the question of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is settled, would the next day answer to the tree of life, when he says, “Behold the Lamb of God”?
JT Yes. The Lord is free now to walk. Life is seen in movement and is available, so that the two disciples hearing John speak follow Jesus. That is the beginning of a company, of which He is the Centre.
ARS Wherever there is life there is movement.
JT Yes, and the light radiates by movement.
Ques What is the action of light?
JT It shines. The life was the light of men. What is the first light you get? It is seen in the One moving to John. Figuratively He is going to die. That is the form the light takes, for the first thing is to deal with the question of sin. He taketh away the sin of the world. John is able to put a name on the Lord’s movement directly, he says, “Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”.
WB-w You get the same idea in the command in Genesis: “Let the earth bring forth”, which is followed by movement (Genesis 1: 24).
JT So in “Let the earth cause grass to spring up” (verse 11); it was God who put the vital element there.
WB-w Even in verse 1 of Genesis 1 you would say there was movement.
JT Yes. God did not create the earth separately from the heavens. It had been submerged, and now it was to fructify and bring forth.
Ques In these operations of God do we not see His pleasure in life?
JT Very true. It says, “The earth is Jehovah’s, and the fulness thereof”, Psalm 24: 1. Man came on the sixth day, into conditions in which he can live. It is a beautiful scene; there is a special place made for him amidst every evidence of life.
WCG I think the first help a soul gets is as he is put into correspondence with John the baptist: “stand still, and see” (Exodus 14: 13) was the word to the Israelites; they stood still and saw the salvation of God, and so we stand still and see God’s activities towards us.
JT Some of us were saying the other day that at the Red Sea there was divine activity; God was in the cloud and went before them; then He removed in the cloud, and went behind the people, it was the activity of His love for their salvation; then He looked out on the Egyptians and embarrassed their camp; then He took off their chariot wheels. All was love’s activity in Israel’s deliverance.
ARS One of the great reasons why it is so important to get hold of life is that in the power of it we triumph over death.
JT I think that is what John had in mind to show. The Lord goes down into death and in the power of life He breaks the power of death. He has [p. 288] annulled death and brought life and incorruptibility to light by the gospel.
WCG So as a person stands and sees, he sees that herein is love, not that we love God but that He loved us. That corresponds with the taking away the sin of the world.
JT I think what is so beautiful in the baptist is, that he had a message from God about Christ. He had a word in regard to this movement. There was in him the ability to discern the life, so that he says, “Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”. When he saw the Spirit descending upon Him and remaining upon Him he says, “he it is who baptises with the Holy Spirit”, but the movement towards him was discerned by John himself.
AFM He discerned what the Lord would do. I suppose we need to see, do we not, that in His taking away the sin of the world, there would be in result a universe of law-abiding subjects, and in order to live we must form an integral part of that universe now?
JT So that the baptism of the Spirit, which follows, brings in the necessity of life as in the Spirit.
JS How do you view John, as he sees Jesus coming to him, as representative of the spiritual?
JT It was figurative. Death was the penalty of sin; John was baptising, and baptism was a figure of death. The Lord coming to John was light to him, in that John was in that peculiar position. It is not like the Lord coming to you, or to me, as a believer; He comes to John in that initial position.
WT In verse 29 was it a general thought in John’s mind, whereas in verse 36 is it like individuals, and then the assembly coming in?
JT What you can see is that the life was radiating in John the baptist. It was when they heard John speaking that they followed Jesus. It is not what he said, but that he was speaking, that is to say, his [p. 289] vocal powers were energised by that Object, from whom light was radiating. The two disciples heard John speaking; so that you see it is not so much what you say, but the spirit in which you say it that touches the heart.
CAM The Lord has “brought to light life and incorruptibility”, having abolished death. It seems to emphasise the fact that He was really a Man among us.
JT “The life was the light of men”. It is a reciprocal transaction, which means that the light of life was in Him, and when that light comes to me it becomes life in me.
CAM It is the same light that shone then on men that shines today.
JT And it becomes life, and hence it radiates, and therefore it spreads, and so becomes general. Life may be seen radiating in speaking or moving. Here it is seen in speaking as in John.
AFM So that the order is, life, light; light, life.
JT That is the continual repetition of the two great principles. The light becomes life, it is continual radiation, until the whole universe is filled with it.
ANW But with God moving, too.
JT It is all connected with the operations of the Spirit.
WB-w It lightens every man that comes into the world, but we do not see every man enlightened or moving by it.
JT The thing itself is there. It sheds its light upon everyone. They are not like John if they see the light and do not move in response to it.
WB-w It says, “has shone in our hearts”, 2 Corinthians 4: 6.
AJD What do you suppose the Lord meant when He said, “ye will not come to me”, John 5: 40?
JT It was their will. Just as it is in this chapter, “His own received him not”.
GWH-[p. 290] r Life was in creation, but death came in through sin, but in God making Himself known in Christ there is displayed the power to cope with that situation.
JT It is in Abraham that this great principle of resurrection life is brought to light: “Take now thy son, thine only son, whom thou lowest, Isaac”, Genesis 22: 2. He is raised from the dead in a figure, and the first recorded burial follows that.
GWH-r In Genesis 5 there is so much spoken about dying, and yet shortly after that there comes to light this great principle of almightiness in God.
JT God would not let the antediluvian world pass away without the testimony of this power also, for Enoch did not die. He was a family man and went through things; so that whilst the testimony of life was there, it took on a very practical form.
TA ‘Life’ and ‘eternal life’, are they the same?
JT They are interchangeable expressions throughout Scripture.
ANW You would not go so far as to say, ‘In Him was eternal life’.
JT The great thought is that of life. You see the word ‘eternal’ is just an adjective qualifying life. It is life of that particular kind.
GWH-r “Jehovah commanded ... life for evermore”, Psalm 133: 3.
JT The word ‘eternal’ is used to show that the life is continual in duration.
GWH-r “And this is the eternal life, that they should know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent”, John 17: 3. Of course this life lies in the knowledge of God.
JT Eternal life was promised before the world began; it was no afterthought on God’s part (Titus 1: 2).
WCG There are three great movements of divine love in Christ: “God so loved ... that he gave”
(John 3: 16), then “He who, yea, has not spared his own Son, but delivered him up for us all” (Romans 8: 32) and then “Having raised up Jesus” (Acts 13: 33). The effect is that we love God and, as we do, life is plainly seen.
JT John, in referring to it in his epistle says, “The eternal life, which was with the Father”, 1 John 1: 2. He means by that that it was seen here in Christ as with the Father. It was now here under the eyes of the apostles; it was manifested to them.
ANW John reported this that we might have fellowship with the apostles in respect of eternal life.
JT He does not say that the word ‘eternal’ is for me, but the life is there for you and me. We know there is no end to it. It is because death has come in that the word ‘eternal’ is used.
AJD What is eternal comes into a time scene.
BTF Were those who were around Him as a company in life before the Lord went into death?
JT Scripture does not speak of it as being possible before Christ died. He came that we might have life and have it in abundance, but that could only be by Christ dying for us and rising again.
WCG Do you emphasise the word ‘eternal’? Life goes into what was purposed for us. Would not that be when life manifested itself? “In him was life”. It came to light that love had designs, and those designs would be connected with eternal life.
JT The word ‘eternal’ stands out in contrast to the temporal interventions of God. His commandment is life eternal; a wonderful thing, meaning that this life would not be temporal, but for ever.
ARS Would it be right to say that eternal life is for the earth?
JT Well, it seems to stand in that connection. We are to reign in life by Him; we who were in death (Romans 5: 17). You could not separate that from eternal life, because it is the same thing; then [p. 292] in Revelation, where the different families are mentioned. John says, “I saw thrones; and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them; and the souls of those beheaded on account of the testimony of Jesus, and on account of the word of God; and those who had not done homage to the beast nor to his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and hand; and they lived and reigned with the Christ a thousand years: the rest of the dead did not live till the thousand years had been completed. This is the first resurrection”, Revelation 20: 4, 5. It is an important thing to see that they lived and reigned with Christ, because they had been cut off by death. They are to live in the presence of the universe, as forming part of the display. I think the idea of life as the triumph of God will be seen, not only in the earthly saints, but in those that are heavenly as well.
GWH-r Every family is marked by that principle.
JT In the eternal state death will be no more, which means that it had existed. There will be some testimony in its non-existence.
Ques Are eternal life and life inseparable thoughts?
JT The word ‘eternal’ is simply an adjective qualifying the life; what we have is eternal in character.
AFM In John 17: 3 life is said to be in the knowledge of God, and of Jesus Christ; also in 1 John 5: 20, “He is the true God and eternal life”. Why is the name ‘Father’ omitted in the foregoing verse?
JT To “know thee, the only true God” shows that the Father remains in the absoluteness of the Deity; the Son has become Man, and the Holy Spirit is here because Jesus is with the Father, so that the Father is before the soul as representing God, all that God is objectively. But how? We apprehend Him in the Son. But then, we apprehend [p. 293] the Son, not only as representative and expressive, of God, but as according to what man should be before God. That is a necessary element of knowledge; the true kind of man that God has before Him is Jesus Christ, One truly Man, but as Son. This is the necessary moral element to be apprehended, and it is what John saw. When you come to John’s epistle it is, “He is the true God and eternal life”; the thought of Father does not come in there either. It is what Christ is personally; I apprehend in Him, as “eternal life”, God’s full thought of blessing for man.
CAM So that the word ‘Father’ in John’s gospel regards God in absolute Deity?
JT The term Father represents God in the absoluteness of the Deity. The Father never became incarnate. He remains in heaven, God.
WCG Really “God, the Father”.
JT In other words, all that God is. The Son and the Spirit, of course, having their part in that.
CAM It is not the thought of the incorruptible Deity here?
JT No. He is not alluding to Him in that light, but to what is revealed in One become Man. That is where the knowledge of the true God is found; but then there is the side of manhood, the Man that is here is “Jesus Christ whom thou has sent”. The two ideas run together, and are two necessary features before the soul.
TA You would connect the Son with the Father, and the idea of eternal life with the relations of God and men?
JT I think so. If you leave out the word, ‘eternal’ from John 3: 16, it does not alter the life for us; but eternal life is held out for perishing man.
TA So that the believer has it. Is it brought in to show the contrast, “may not perish, but have life eternal”?
JT God sees men perishing, but He does not want [p. 294] them to perish, and so He provides eternal life for them.
Ques Is eternal life enjoyed on the earth?
JT Certainly. “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”, 1 John 3: 14.
ANW The lawyer said, “having done what, shall I inherit life eternal?” The Lord said to him, “this do and thou shalt live”, Luke 10: 25, 28. The Lord said that advisedly.
JT Oh! He did. The allusion is to the law. The Lord answers a man according to his condition. There is no question of eternal life in the answer, it is the application of law, so that the man might know that he was impotent. Eternal life is not brought in for that, the law is.
Ques Life was seen by John in looking upon the Lord as coming towards him.
JT The thing is to be able to take in the light. There was life represented in that movement. That is what we may see tonight, life in movement. You may go far afield and yet not get the thing; the light must be followed, or you will never reach the life. Here was one man, at least, who could see it.
WCG “I am the light of the world” (John 8: 12); the thing is to follow that light.
JT And so here. These two heard John speaking, there was life in the speaking, and they follow Jesus, indicating the great principle brought out here. Then the Lord turned, and saw them following, that is another movement; and He says to them, “What seek ye?” They had heard John speaking, he was the greatest teacher up to that time; what light was suggested to their souls in hearing him speak. His was the voice of a teacher, and that voice created a living current, so to speak, and that current bore towards Christ.
GWH-r These two disciples got into it.
JT The Lord saw them following, and said, “What seek ye?” The light had become effectual [p. 295] in them, and the next thing is, they say to Him, “Rabbi ... where abidest thou?” The Holy Spirit is pleased to give us the meaning of the word ‘Rabbi’, that is, ‘Teacher’, so that we may know how the light affected them.
GWH-r Now commences the teaching. They apprehend Him as the Teacher now.
JT This current has brought them into relation to Christ, but they want a teacher, and the Holy Spirit is pleased to tell us what the word ‘Rabbi’ means, so that we might understand what is in their souls. The great teacher’s voice directs them to a greater Teacher. They are ready to leave the one for the other. That is a great point in John, and is of present value and application; that the people of God should be ready to give up one teacher for another, for Christ.
JS It is done in affection.
JT Yes, what is wanted is that the saints should turn to Christ in a living way. We are baptised in view of that; we are made to live.
ARS When the light from Christ shone into Saul’s heart did it produce life in him? He was told to get up, and that showed movement; did it go as far as eternal life?
JT The question of eternal life is to meet our needs here. In a dark room what you need is light, and that was what Saul needed. Then if God is thinking of man as perishing, this eternal life is for him. God knows what life is; He knows what He is Himself, and therefore the life must be abiding.
GWH-r And He knows you need to be transferred to the new teaching.
JT New teaching of a higher order. The first followers called Him the Teacher, showing the kind of light that was moving them.
ANW It involved that they had learned the secret of the thing.
JT [p. 296] Undoubtedly. Now they want life, they want teaching in view of life, not at college, but in the home. Christianity is not learned in a seminary, but where He dwells.
GWH-r And so we go out, as having the benefit of that teaching.
JT The light radiates in Andrew. He finds Simon and brings him to the Lord.
CAM The light will enable us to behave in that way, if we follow it.
BTF Would you say that life would be the divine thing shining out?
JT I think so. The new commandment is really that. John says, in the first instance, “I write no new commandment to you”, for the truth had been circulated by the word which they heard, and he has regard to what they had learned from the ministry of others. But he says, “Again, I write a new commandment to you, which thing is true in him and in you”, 1 John 2: 7, 8. It is true in Christ and in us; that is, life is not only in Christ but in the saints. As it radiates from Christ, so from us. The darkness thus is passing and the true light now shines.
OAR The radiancy in John was the result of the worth of the Person of whom he was speaking.
JT So that in contrast to behemoth, all of whose power was in his lower affections — right enough in their place, with John the baptist it was a question of speaking — lungs, throat and lips are all in activity, so that others should be reached.
AJD A spiritual man thus speaking would direct the hearts of the saints to Christ.
AFM John 3: 16 then, would be what you present to people perishing; what is contained in the word ‘Rabbi’ would be more the instruction in regard to eternal life with a view to testimony.
JT It leads up to the assembly, because I think it heads up in Cephas, “which interpreted is stone”.