DIVINE MANIFESTATIONS
[p. 433] DIVINE MANIFESTATIONS
Genesis 17: 22; Genesis 18: 1 - 10
JT These divine appearings, given to faith in Genesis and later, are of special importance to us as in the period of faith, the means of these divine manifestations being now in the Spirit. They are not now angelic as of old; to us they are spiritual, not exactly miraculous, as in these cases, but nevertheless they are real, and are intended to make us spiritual and to impress us with what is divine. They would make us substantial in our testimony, that is to say, spiritual as to the element of obedience; so that these manifestations, or appearings, or impressions, should be ensured to us. It says here, that “he left off talking with him; and God went up from Abraham” (verse 22). Then what follows in the chapter beings out Abraham’s implicit obedience in carrying out what was said to him by God, in regard to circumcision, in the very letter of it, not only as to himself, but as to Ishmael and all the men of his house. Now in that household, typically, the flesh was wholly disallowed, and room was made for the Spirit. Circumcision is not in the letter now, but in the Spirit.
HES Do we get in Genesis the great thoughts of God? It has been said that the first thoughts of God are the greatest.
JT Yes. So we come down to Jacob; that is a lower level. There are two distinct levels in Scripture: the lower as seen in the Corinthian epistles; the upper, in Ephesians. God begins on the upper level. He begins with Abraham and Enoch, types of the church; and thus Enoch, Abraham and Isaac typify the full thought as to the heavenly altitude; then in Jacob the ways of God are worked out on earth and the house of God is connected [p. 434] with Jacob.
Ques By two levels, do you mean earthly and heavenly?
JT Yes, and both levels apply to us. There is what is here in the way of testimony; divine order is to be seen in a public way; so that we have a great deal in Corinthians in the way of instructions. Certain provisions were given before the apostle left them; he wrote others, and prayed that they might keep them; then he would give them further directions when he should come back. There are three revelations spoken of. That is the prominent feature in Corinth, and therefore all that relates to what God has here before men in a public way; that belongs to the side of things which we were calling ‘lower’, not in the sense of coming down to man’s level, but in contrast to the ‘upper’ level, which has more to do with the work of God universally. The lower level is local; it is in localities we look for public order. In the universal aspect, there is one body, one hope, one calling, and all culminates for God, as in Ephesians 4. We begin with the local company, but where we end is a question of spiritual power. Eternity, really, is the objective; the “calling on high of God in Christ Jesus”, Philippians 3: 14.
HES I suppose what would be accomplished on the Ephesian level would be “to him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages”?
JT I think that is what we should have before us. It seems that God begins on that level in the types. He begins with the idea of the church before sin came in, to convey His thought. So that a deep sleep falls upon Adam, and then Eve is formed out of Him. God does not like it if we lower that; we should be slighting His thoughts. He begins at the top, and indicates that that is His best.
HES Would you get the earthly and heavenly in Luke and John? In Luke He shows [p. 435] them His hands and feet, but in John His hands and side.
JT Yes, quite. Luke brings in the lower level, but greatly emphasises the influence of heaven over it. He begins with a great dignitary — Gabriel — and then another angel standing by the shepherds, and then a multitude of the heavenly host. He maintains the order of God here.
HES Had you in mind that the knowledge of these manifestations is dependent on our state?
JT I thought so, from the bringing in of circumcision at that point in Genesis 17; so that Abraham might have part with Him. He recognises God as moving on, and if we are to have part in this, we must disallow the flesh. Colossians would show that that is a very effective circumcision, “in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of the Christ” (chapter 2: 11); Abraham, too, goes in for the thing fully. God is not going on with the flesh; He has dealt with it fully in the death of Christ.
Now it says in verse 22, “God went up from Abraham” — that is to be noted. The Lord says that if we love Him we shall keep His commandments, and if we do that He says He will “manifest” Himself to us (John 14: 21). As God went up, Abraham is left to himself; the next verses show what he did; he went in for circumcision.
Ques Do you think that if we were obedient to one manifestation we should get others?
JT That is what I think we see here. God will not go on with routine; it is a question of loving God and of what springs from that. Look at the life in the spring of the year — what abundance and variety there is! God does not want regulations and that kind of thing; He desires order, but He delights in variety of life and spontaneity. So that if God went up, that is a movement which I believe the Holy Spirit would dwell on. It looks as if God is not going [p. 436] on just yet; at the close of the next chapter it says He went away, which means He was going somewhere else; but here it says He went up — He broke off, as it were.
HES Is that the character of the present moment?
JT Yes, as in the beginning of the Acts: “he was taken up, they beholding him”. The Acts brings in movements. The angels say “as ye have seen him” — they had seen Him going into heaven.
Ques Would you say that every fresh manifestation would involve a fresh unfolding of God’s mind and will?
JT I think so. God does not repeat Himself; there is variety in His movements. It seems that He loves to see what we will do.
Ques Is it a test for obedience?
JT I think it is. When He goes up, you feel there is a distance. God is in heaven, and I am on earth. Now what am I going to do?
HES It has been said that dependence and obedience are the marks of the heavenly life. Would He carry our desires and interests in the same direction?
JT Well, exactly; as loving Him you keep His commandments, and you get another manifestation, so that there is continual freshness in the saints here through these appearings. Hence the next appearing to Abraham was very different from the previous one. In chapter 17 the first one had reference to circumcision; He did not say much, but He changed their names; that is to say, it was a question of ennoblement. If our names are changed, God gives us to understand that we are dignified. Sarah’s name was changed; there was to be fruitfulness, multitudes of nations; but the flesh must be repudiated, and God enters into a covenant on that basis. It was a most interesting discussion that Abraham had with the [p. 437] Lord, but the Lord broke it off. It does not say it was finished.
Rem Abraham got enlightenment; he thought that Ishmael might live before God.
JT Yes, it was a time of adjustment, and enlightenment, and an ennobling time, so as to make them fit for His presence.
HES It seems that this goes with John 14. The light of the Lord going away, and then the question of obedience involving whether we shall see Him again.
JT Yes, that is it. The Holy Spirit comes in and the Lord says, “Ye believe on God, believe also on me”. The mind is directed to Christ and the realm of faith; the manifestations are in connection with that. After chapter 15, they are connected with a divine Person here; so that the meaning of these manifestations is greater then, and there is more confidence. In Genesis, He broke off speaking with Abraham; the next time it is quite different, because then, Abraham took the initiative, showing that he was ennobled. God would not allow a man who was not ennobled by Him, to do this.
Ques Will you give us a little help on circumcision?
JT Well, I think that is Colossians. It is mentioned in Romans, and Philippians brings it in characteristically — “we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and boast in Christ Jesus, and do not trust in flesh” (Philippians 3: 3) — you do not retain any of it; there might be danger of retaining some. Abraham in the presence of the covenant says, “Oh that Ishmael might live before thee!” Ishmael had a certain status; he was his son. The Galatians were on this line.
Rem Is it because of his exercises that Abraham was so much at home in the presence of divine [p. 438] Persons?
JT Yes; I think the danger with us is in half measures. Abraham was on Ephesian ground. The second visit showed the thing had been taken out of the way; he carried the thing as far as those born in his house; there were no half measures with him.
Ques You reach Ephesian ground by way of Colossians?
JT No doubt. You would be struck with the thoroughness of the thing. In Philippians the concision refers to persons who do not go all the way; they retain certain things. But in Colossians, they are all taken away. As with the cities of refuge it is said “thou shalt prepare thee a way” (Deuteronomy 19: 3) — the way should not be blocked.
Ques Do these manifestations involve spiritual maturity?
JT We do not make much of age. There is a link between the old and the young, as between Abraham and Isaac.
ER I thought in that connection there was only eleven days journey into the land. The point is whether we are prepared to go the Lord’s way. The Lord would carry us through if we were prepared to let Him have His way.
JT I am sure that we should not leave out that it involves suffering. But I think the Lord coming in the second time, in company, is to show that He can take His company into such a scene as that. Abraham was great enough for it. It is not God coming in to communicate, it is Abraham that makes the suggestion.
ER Is it not more communion than communications?
JT It is interesting that Abraham did not have to make any arrangements.
Ques Is not the secret that he had circumcised his whole house?
JT Yes; we sometimes feel that we have [p. 439] reservations.
Rem I suppose Lot could not maintain these visitations?
JT That is a good suggestion. The Lord did not go in to him; the angels went in. Lot had unleavened bread; he had something to eat, but it was a terrible condition of things. Abraham was outside of all that.
Ques Would that suggest christians in associations here?
JT I suppose if the Lord essayed to go into some places of worship. He would not be allowed at all. These two angels were mobbed; they would not get a better reception now in the religious world. But the altitude Abraham is on is outside all that. He is a heavenly man. Then what you see in this incident is a development. It is not divine authority, but mutuality; “they said, So do as thou hast said” (chapter 18: 5).
Ques Do you think it would show Abraham had a sense of what was due to such Persons?
JT I think so. You see his position, sitting in the tent door; not asleep in meetings in the afternoon from spiritual lethargy, but Abraham was awake, sitting in the tent door, and he saw Them, he would not like to miss that, which you might do by being asleep in the afternoon.
Rem They seem to be regular occurrences.
JT Yes, exactly. The incubus of the flesh was not there. He was awake, vigilant; “he lifted up his eyes and saw, and behold, three men standing near him”. It is a beautiful scene — there is such a suddenness about it!
HES Lifting up his eyes reminds one of Rebecca, and likewise Isaac.
JT I think it is spiritual vigilance. Some people say, ‘Well, I do not see it’, it may be an important issue, but they do not see it. They hide behind the [p. 440] fact; they make their blindness a virtue. But Abraham saw.
Ques In the case of Isaac and Rebecca, was it mutual? Here it is Abraham’s tent — his side. In Laodicea they needed to see; they had to get to the Lord to get eye-salve.
JT Yes, I think that is important. They overlooked the fact that they were just ignoring their blindness.
Ques Is this the individual or the company?
JT The idea is that the flesh has been dealt with effectively, and now he is not hampered with it. The incubus is very wearing down and tends to laziness and other things. It was in the “heat of the day” when he might have been sleeping. The thing for us is to have our eyes open. Christianity is not a system of ethics; it is that in which divine Persons have their constant part.
Rem In Acts 1, it says the Lord presented Himself living.
JT That is it, and then you get “Being assembled with them”. “The Word became flesh” and “we have contemplated his glory”. The apostles saw. There is a great deal to be seen even in these days.
Ques What is the character of the manifestations now?
JT Well, I think they are spiritual. They come in in John when the Comforter is spoken of. They would all lie in the Spirit. The Lord loves to come into the company, be they many or few; to five hundred brethren at once, or to the twelve. But I think the Lord would have the greatest pleasure in the five hundred. I think that must have been very delightful in His eyes. You do not get that in the gospels, but it shows the result of the Lord’s work. The apostle says “some also have fallen asleep”, but most remained to that day. He seemed to value the thought of five hundred impressed with one thing at [p. 441] the same time. The thing was a reality to them. How ridiculous it would appear to modernity; it would appear to them as “idle tales”.
Ques As to manifestations — is it what the Spirit says to the churches?
JT Well, I think it comes in more in the way of ministry, in what He says to us. Then the Lord spoke to Paul, but He also appeared to him. In Acts 26, Paul speaks of the Lord appearing to him so that he might be a witness and a minister of what he had seen, and “of those things in the which I will appear unto thee”. I think there is not only what is said, but spiritual impressions are given. It is most important to get the impression, not only of what the Spirit says through ministry in actual words, but the impressions you get in the company of the saints. The impressions of divine Persons form your whole being.
Rem So that here provision is made to hold Them; it is for God’s pleasure.
JT Yes, how wonderful it is that God, in company, should wait while Abraham prepares. But we must not bring in other things to break the silence. “So do as thou hast said” is for the divine pleasure. Abraham brings in his household; he does the thing well. Think of the Upholder of the universe waiting on Abraham and his household.
Ques What is the thought in the approach of three men?
JT I think it is heaven coming in so that we might understand it. God would educate us for heaven; it is a heavenly scene, so that we might become familiar with the manner of heaven. In the transfiguration you have two men, Moses and Elias, talking with Him. How simple it is! but Peter and the others were not equal to it, though they were afterwards.
Rem “We will come to him and make our abode with him”, John 14: 23.
JT That is the idea. I think, too, that God loves our initiative; He takes the initiative in manifesting Himself, and all will be eternally on the line of divine initiative, not ours. But God loves to bring us in; it is the reflection of His glory for which He has prepared us. “Beholding your order” in Colossians 2: 5. God takes us up on that ground. Moses and Elias had the initiative; they appeared; they were talking with Jesus. So here divine Persons accepted Abraham’s proposal, he hastened to do the thing and did it well. Then Abraham stood before them, and They ate. It is a fine scene.
Ques Was it not the effect of the Lord drawing near that encouraged Abraham?
JT I think the divine presence gives liberty; the nearer you get to the Lord, the more you are conscious of that.
Ques Would you say a person like this would expect a visitation?
JT It rather looks as if he expected it. The last verse of chapter 18 suggests the finish. In chapter 17: 22, he left off.
HES What do the different foods presented by Abraham set forth?
JT I suppose it would be the meat-offering, not so much sacrifice; and the fatted calf would suggest the quality of it. Three would be witness; it is the quality of the provision that is suggested. The calf is “tender and good” — and the milk is “thick and sweet”, meaning, I suppose, the milk with all its richness. Thick milk is of great value as food; and sweet milk is palatable.
HES Would it be the “food of the offering” — food for God?
JT There was no diminution in the type from the morning till the evening; he was as fresh in the [p. 443] evening as in the morning. God had something from him. Here in the heat of the day, everything was right, the things were good, and the attendance was good; everything was desirable. And then what comes out is that Abraham has his part. In verse 9, They say to him, “where is Sarah thy wife?” Now God is going to speak. This seems to be a repetition, but it is brought in in a new setting, a new view. God is satisfied with us as coming in; then you would have a fresh view of Christ. He asks for Sarah. She had a part in the preparation of the meal. Abraham sat in the tent. Sarah was in her proper place; she was not out visiting. God says, I will certainly return unto thee. Christ will be brought in definitely. Sarah is the subjective side. The power contemplated is to be brought in livingly, in a subjective way by the power of God; and so when the time came, God visited her as He had said.
Ques Is the thought here, that you get a further view of Christ?
JT It refers here to “the time of life” — I think it would be Christ brought forth out of this state of things. Where was Sarah? She had her place in that state of things as in the assembly, in what was comely. In Peter, Sarah is a model; she had her place in the house. In a spiritual sense she represents the maternal place. Now God would come in in life-giving power, so that Christ might be formed in us. In Galatians Jerusalem above is our mother. Here it is the power of life subjectively.
Rem Not simply light, but the thing formed.
JT Yes, and in the given time. The apostle travails in birth “until” Christ be formed in them. Sarah had been dishonoured, but now she is honoured, as it says, “After these things”, and at the appointed time, she bore Isaac.
Ques Do you suggest that Christ would be brought in livingly among [p. 444] the saints?
JT Yes, I thought Galatians gives us the travail; whereas in Colossians it is “Christ in you”. It is very fine; it is the power of God.
Ques Is that why Ishmael had to go out?
JT We must make a complete break with the flesh. The practical test is obedience. If we come together in the light of chapter 17, which answers to Colossians, self-judgment and circumcision, we shall get a visitation. There will be subjection in the part we take in the meeting. Abraham is a model to show that God can accept all that we do. These are matters of great importance, if we are to come into the good of the assembly. You see how God moves on. Isaac is introduced; Sarah is dignified; and then Abraham looks toward Sodom (Genesis 18: 16). Now they are moving on as it says now, “Abraham went with them”. And then Jehovah says, “Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do” — he is brought into the light of public events. God thus helping us to see how things are in the world; for we should not be indifferent to what is going on. So Abraham intercedes; he is thinking of the righteous. When Isaac comes in, the judgment of the world is imminent. Sodom is destroyed.
Ques Would coming together in affection for Christ and all saints, be suitable conditions?
JT Quite. Abraham had all saints in view; he began with fifty and he dropped down to ten; God stopped when Abraham stopped. This movement is not going up, but going away to destroy the world.
Rem So that divine manifestations have a different setting; this is that you get the mind of God?
JT Yes, “he will shew you things to come”.
HH Is it not interesting that after the Lord was risen, His coming to the disciples was on the line of manifestations; as it says in John 21: 1, “on this wise shewed he himself”?
JT [p. 445] That is very interesting. I think it is on the principle that He is on the way to something. And so with the two going to Emmaus; He tests their affections. He “made as though he would go farther”, Luke 24: 28. Another thing in that connection is as it says in Mark, “He ... would have passed them by”, Mark 6: 48. It is very searching, showing that He may pass us by; He thus warns us. But in this scripture it is very beautiful. He stops with Abraham.