THE LORD MAINTAINING DIRECT LINKS WITH THE ASSEMBLY

^[p. 371] THE LORD MAINTAINING DIRECT LINKS WITH THE ASSEMBLY

Acts 1: 1 - 5; 1 Corinthians 15: 5 - 9; Acts 22: 17 - 21; John 14: 18 - 21

JT I have in mind the Lord maintaining direct links with the brethren in the assembly during the period of His absence. Christianity, or the assembly, is not simply, as it were, set up alone, and left to itself, or even left to the Holy Spirit, but the Lord Jesus, the Son, comes and maintains connections with it. The same thing is seen in the universe. It was not simply drawn up, and left to work itself out, to maintain itself. God keeps on with it and maintains it. The Father is “over all, and through all, and in us all”. So these scriptures are read to call attention to the fact that this is in accord with the Lord’s way when He was here in the flesh. It is said in the same scripture we have already read that He came in and went out amongst them, from the baptism of John until the day in which He was taken up. The disciples were not left to themselves at all, for the Lord maintained constant links with them, coming in and going out amongst them from the baptism of John; that is, from the time He was anointed, until He went up to heaven, and so He continues coming in and going out of the assembly now in a spiritual way, involving much as to ministry and growth and freshness. John’s gospel bears particularly on this side. It is seen in the verse read in chapter 14: “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”.

AR The Lord says at the end of Matthew, “Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world”. Is that in line with what you have before ^[p. 372] you?

JT It is, but it is Matthew’s way. In Matthew He does not ascend. It is a question of what is being maintained here continuously; not the idea of the Lord’s coming, but His being here, and so He says, “Where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I” — not, there I will come, but there am I. So Luke, after the resurrection, says, “He himself stood in their midst”; he does not say He came. John particularly stresses the thought of His coming. The gospel of Matthew, of course, has its own peculiar character as bearing specially on the assembly, and is the only one that mentions it formally, stressing the authority that is in the assembly down here, and what is needed in the way of support. So according to Matthew, the Lord is viewed as here, but the saints are doing things and He is supporting them.

AM Do you mean that Matthew and Luke have the faith position in mind, whereas you have something more in mind than the faith position?

JT Quite so. The Lord went up, according to Acts 1, and “a cloud received him out of their sight”, and, although they continued looking after Him, the angels rather prohibited that; it was not in keeping with faith. He was received up out of their sight, and hence the faith period began, and it continues, but John, in the verses read, records the Lord’s words: “Ye see me; because I live, ye shall live also”. This is clearly in a spiritual sense.

WH Would John have a spiritual realm before him in the way the Lord acts and speaks?

JT Just so. It is the realm inaugurated by His going up into heaven, and the Spirit coming down, forming the assembly; the realm is within the bounds of the assembly, the Spirit operating in it.

AR Are you speaking of the presence of the Lord personally in the assembly, as distinct from the Spirit, or alongside of the Spirit? We understand,

^[p. 373] I think, the Spirit being present, but are you suggesting that the Lord personally is present in the assembly?

JT I should say it is by the Spirit, only reserving the thought, that He, being one of the divine Persons, the Son, is at liberty to come of Himself as He pleases. Therefore He is seen as coming actually in these scriptures. In the beginning of Acts He is seen corporeally during forty days, going in and out amongst them, and as Paul says, He was seen by him, as recorded in 1 Corinthians 15 and Acts 22.

Ques Are you linking this on to John 20: “Jesus came and stood in the midst, and... The disciples rejoiced therefore, having seen the Lord”?

JT That is a pattern of the present situation. Before He went up to heaven He set out the idea of a pattern, such as in the book of Exodus; the word pattern is stressed in that book, and I believe John 20 involves a pattern of the way the Lord is doing things. On the first day of the week, Jesus came. It stresses, too, that it was late in the day, as if He were moving about all day, and came in the evening. From Luke one might suppose that He went up to heaven the day He rose. From Luke 24 you would hardly think He was here forty days; it is rather that He was, as it were, in haste to enter on the position of administration so as to do all that love would do. Love acts administratively; that is, formal administration is being done at the behest of love, and the Lord is in haste to begin there, but John would indicate that He remained, and Luke tells us in the Acts that He was forty days amongst them, as if He were loth to leave; as if it were a question of love, but He could serve them better above.

The Lord said specifically to Mary, “I have not yet ascended to my Father”, as if that were necessary where He would be free to move about, as in ^[p. 374] chapter 14. The facts indicate that the Lord was active the whole day after He arose, active with the brethren; first to restore them, and then, as He secured them, to show Himself amongst them, and then to instruct them, and hence the chapter continues until He goes up. These things are facts that ought to bear on our present position, and much enters into it; freshness and heavenliness all the time coming in.

FBW Would you explain how these things bear on the present position?

JT Most of what I have been saying involves freshness. From the heavenly side all is as fresh and vigorous as at the beginning at Pentecost; there may be sluggishness, through failure, with the assembly, but from the divine side none.

RT Would you distinguish between, “We see Jesus”, in Hebrews 2, and what we have in John 14, “Ye see me”?

JT Hebrews is a suggestion of the Stephen position. Hebrews has been called the book of the opened heavens. Stephen looked up into heaven and saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. That would be the position, and we have to work it out in our experience, the Spirit enabling us to do it, because the Spirit’s position here is absolutely essential to Christianity, to the assembly, and to the existence of a Christian at the present time; but in the book of Hebrews the saints are urged to look away from earth to heaven. “Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith” — looking steadfastly; that is in no sense incompatible with the era of faith, the faith system having begun and faith being in that sense opposed to sight.

WH In the first scripture read, reference is made to what the Lord did by the Holy Spirit in verse 2, and in verse 4 He stresses the need for their having ^[p. 375] the Spirit. Would the thought of the Lord doing things by the Spirit still continue after His ascension, or is it specially stressed during the days of His humiliation?

JT I would say that He does things by the Holy Spirit. That is in keeping with the thought of pattern and, in character and principle the operations are by the Spirit. New birth is by the Spirit and, of course, always was, but there is a continuation of the Spirit’s operations. The speaking at the beginning was by the Spirit; it was about the wonderful works of God. We are apt to limit the Lord. The Father and the Son act; They have Their part too, and never lose it. John 14 continues to speak about this subject; I did not intend to read about the Father because time fails us. I thought we would confine what we have to say to the activities of the Son down here, and Paul is a witness to it, that the Son, the Lord Himself, appeared to him, according to the passage read.

FI Would you say that, apart from our hearts being fixed on Christ in the position where He is, the Spirit is impotent to produce anything in us in the way of spiritual formation?

JT Quite so. That would be an allusion to our state, of course. We might hinder the operations of the Spirit. You mean that the saint, as a subject of the divine work, requires to have his eye, the eye of faith, on the Son where He is and the Spirit is then free to work in him.

Rem With reference to the question about the Holy Spirit, Acts 1: 5 records the Lord’s words, “For John indeed baptised with water, but ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit”.

JT It was said by John that the Lord Jesus should baptise with the Holy Spirit, so that is in keeping with this passage in Acts 1.

^[p. 376] Ques What is the force of that word, “with the Holy Spirit”, Acts 1: 5? Does it mean in the power of the Spirit?

JT It really means the power of the Holy Spirit. That would really imply that the Holy Spirit baptises too. The preposition would indicate that they were to be baptised in the power of the Holy Spirit. John had said, in chapter 1: 33, that the Lord Himself would baptise with the Holy Spirit, but I am further suggesting that the Spirit Himself acts in power in this baptism. The preposition “with” (Greek en) means that it is in the power of the Holy Spirit that this baptism takes place, without saying that the Lord does it in Acts 1:5, but John in the first chapter of his gospel says that the Lord does it, and, of course, that enters into the whole position of the assembly. We read in Acts 19 that John’s disciples were found at Ephesus, and they were not baptised; meaning, I suppose, that John’s disciples failed to continue in the truth in the full sense of the position; indeed, they did not even hear of the Holy Spirit, somewhat indicating the present position among Christians. How much is not understood! How much ignorance there is! You might say it was culpable in John’s disciples, because John expressly stated that the Lord Jesus would baptise with the Holy Spirit, and when Paul asks them in Acts 19, they state, “We did not even hear if the Holy Spirit was come. And he said, To what then were ye baptised? And they said, To the baptism of John. And Paul said, John indeed baptised with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on him that was coming after him, that is, on Jesus. And when they heard that, they were baptised to the name of the Lord Jesus. And Paul having laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them”, as if the Holy Spirit operated Himself through Paul’s hands. All that raises much in detail ^[p. 377] as to the procedure in Christianity, that all the Persons are operating, and, in the gift of the Spirit, the Father and the Son are operating as well as the Spirit.

Rem In Acts 10, “the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were hearing the word”.

JT Quite so. That is an energetic action of the Spirit, and is really the same word as that used in Luke 15 of the father’s actions towards the prodigal son: “fell upon his neck, and covered him with kisses”. That is the same idea.

AN Do I understand that your point is, that while there is the Spirit’s activity, the Lord comes personally?

JT That is the point I am stressing, and what has been said is important, because there is considerable confusion about the matter, and the possibility of persons not having the Spirit at all, whereas what marks the dispensation is the Spirit’s activities, as well as the activities of the Father and the Son; and that new birth is by the Spirit, and anyone that is born anew is born anew to be saved in the Christian period.

AN I think that helps to make the thought clear that all the Persons of the Godhead are active. I was thinking of where it says of Paul, when he was in conflict, “The Lord stood with me”, 2 Timothy 4: 17. That would be the Lord personally?

JT Quite so.

AM In Luke 15 the activities of all the divine Persons are set out.

JT Yes, that is a good point, and surely we all ought to feel the importance of it, that the Father, Son, and Spirit are operating, and we would rejoice in it all — the magnificence of Christianity. It is a time of salvation, but salvation according to the operations of the New Testament. The first would be new birth; the second, believing in the death,

^[p. 378] resurrection, and ascension of Christ; and then the coming in of the Spirit. So Peter says when they asked him, “What shall we do?” “Repent, and be baptised, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for remission of sins, and ye will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”, Acts 2: 38.

In Acts 1 we have first the Lord’s charging them by the Holy Spirit, and then it says, “He was taken up; to whom also he presented himself living, after he had suffered, with many proofs; being seen by them during forty days, and speaking of the things which concern the kingdom of God; and, being assembled with them, commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to await the promise of the Father, which... ye have heard of me. For John indeed baptised with water, but ye shall be baptised with the Holy Spirit”. This is plainly indicating what prevailed during the forty days after the Lord arose. He went in and out amongst them. He had done it before He died; meaning that He would accustom them to the thought of His own visitations, as Samuel, in making a circuit every year, visiting certain parts, indicated the same thing. The Lord carried it on in His lifetime here before He died, and He now carries it on, the Spirit being here, but the point of importance is that He inaugurated the idea of coming Himself in the forty days, which is corroborated in the passage read in Corinthians. Paul’s experience carried the thing into the assembly period, because he had that committed to him, and what he says has a bearing during the whole period of the assembly; hence what we have in John 14, corresponding with John’s place in the economy. The Lord said, “If I will that he tarry till I come”. John’s place is mysterious, and the Lord’s coming as John records it involves what is mysterious, and so makes Christianity a mysterious system of things. The Lord Jesus coming in personally, periodically ^[p. 379] as it were, according to the principle in Samuel, and according to the principle He established Himself in the days of His flesh and in the forty days, continues according to the mysterious testimony of John the apostle.

AR I understand the idea of the appearings of the Lord on occasions, but what do you mean by what is continuous?

JT I mean, as Samuel did. It goes on from the time when the Lord was here in flesh. From the baptism of John until He was taken up, the Lord Jesus came in and went out amongst them. That is the idea of continuing.

AR Then, as to His appearing amongst them, as in John 20, would that continue at the present time?

JT Yes, and would maintain the heavenly side of the position. It is a heavenly thing. “Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father”, would mean that it was a heavenly thing, a mysterious thing, and hence the coming in verse 19, consequent upon the Magdalene’s message, would show how the dispensation is set up, and what is to characterise it to the end. What I am saying is well worth considering, because we are coming to the end of the dispensation, and we want to be in keeping with it. It is an up-going thing, it is not simply that we are taken up by the Lord, but the idea of ascension is in it. It has great dignity, going up out of the earth altogether to heaven, and so the assembly comes down from God out of heaven. Revelation 21 implies that she has a sinless history, heavenly history, not simply something that happened here on earth, but something coming out of heaven, as if it belonged to heaven. The idea of the ascension enters into the dispensation. It is a dispensation unlike any other. There are many dispensations, but there is none like ^[p. 380] the dispensation of Christianity. I think John 20 implies that. The Lord came in verse 19, and He came in after remarkable proceedings, telling them, “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted”, and eight days afterwards He came again.

WR Would the conditions for His coming in be seen in John 14, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”.

JT The conditions in the main in this passage are that the Spirit should be given. In the main that is what is stressed. He says, “If ye love me keep my commandments. And I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”. That is a verse that has a peculiar meaning in John. We do not find it elsewhere; Matthew, Mark and Luke do not have it. It is affecting that the Lord would not leave us orphans, not that we can be orphans while the Spirit is here; two divine Persons are operating in relation to each other. The Spirit would take the Lord’s place as comforting them, being with them, but there is this additional thought: “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”. Leaving it indefinitely like that keeps you on the qui vive all the time.

Ques Is the thought that we should be in keeping with it? “Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord”.

JT Just so. These three comings in John are remarkable, three manifestations. The assembly period is being stressed; that is, the period marked by the Lord coming to us, and on the principle of having ascended; it is as if in John 20:19 He came out from the Father in heaven that very minute.

^[p. 381] Luke in his gospel writes as if the Lord was taken up on the very day He arose.

RMcK Would the period seen in John 20: 19, “When... it was evening”, conclude in Acts 20, where the apostle spoke “until daybreak”?

JT I should think so. That is an important chapter, the Pauline chapter. It is characterised by love from beginning to end, the love of Paul. It is a question of the place Paul had in the affections of the saints, and Paul really represents the Lord. What a place he had in the affections of the brethren! We have in that chapter the thought of the first day of the week when the disciples assembled, as Luke says, “We being assembled to break bread”, and Paul discoursed to them at length. This calls attention to Paul’s ministry, which runs down the assembly period, and characterises it, and links on to the Lord’s coming.

Rem The Lord would seem to delight to come.

JT I think that is what you gather. He is telling us that He is coming in now. The brethren have had a terrible time; He knows it, and I believe He is showing Himself.

Ques Do you suggest that John brings in the “disciple whom Jesus loved”?

JT That is the idea running through John; “If I will that he tarry till I come”. There is in that some mysterious thing; John’s ministry carries right down to the present moment.

RMcA The Lord would maintain direct links with us.

JT That is the idea. For example, Paul stressed to the Corinthians that he was coming. He kept it before them that he was coming, and I believe it suggests to us that the Lord comes, not yet for us, but to us, to sustain us in view of His coming for us.

DMcI In 1 Corinthians 15 it says, “Such as the heavenly one, such also the heavenly ones”. Is ^[p. 382] he thinking of those who have experienced those manifestations?

JT I think so. The idea of manifestation is peculiar to John. It is a real thing, not simply that the person comes, but manifests himself. One might come quietly and hardly be discerned. Something may be spread out in ministry, or in some other way, that shows what his presence really is in such circumstances.

Ques In John 14 does this thought of visitation develop into manifestation and finally into dwelling?

JT Quite so. “He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me... and I will... manifest myself to him”. You might say that the Lord is there, but the point is manifestation. There is no doubt about it. It implies He is really there.

AR Would you suggest that the appearing of the Lord in the midst in John 20 would be the answer to what you have in John 14, “I am coming to you”?

JT I think so; it is the pattern, it is something that you can go by, and keep in your mind; other things that come in must be in keeping with the pattern. John 20 should be kept in mind in the service of God on the first day of the week, because that is what is stressed in that chapter. The important thing is to keep the pattern before us and eliminate anything else. There is the case of Thomas in the second manifestation, and the erring disciples in the third one; it is there the Lord speaks about John being reserved. We keep that in mind too, but the first manifestation refers to the assembly; it is a question of keeping in principle to the pattern. The Lord comes, not that He is there all the time; He comes in in accord with the message sent to the disciples; it was a time of ascension, it was a heavenly time. In view of what the brethren have suffered He would reward us by showing Himself, in ^[p. 383] something in the way of ministry, and especially to stress the Spirit as the breath of Christ, and the spirit of forgiveness amongst the brethren should follow on it. Let forgiveness characterise us as of the assembly.

Rem The word to the overcomer in Laodicea is, “I will come in unto him and sup with him, and he with me” Revelation 3: 20.

JT That is a very good word. That came out in conversation the other day with a brother not committing himself to the truth definitely, and I believe it helped him. “Behold, I stand”, as if He were waiting with a definite purpose in the position, “if any one hear my voice and open the door, I will come in unto him and sup with him, and he with me”. That is what is going on. He will sup with us, and we with Him. That is, He takes us into His circumstances on the principle of “part with me”, as He says in John 13.

Ques What is meant by John 14: 20?

JT “In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you”. I think it shows the full thought of Christianity. It shows that the Persons of the Father and of the Son and of the saints are bound up together.

JC As to that verse, “I will not leave you orphans, I am coming to you”, ought we to have that experience in all our comings together?

JT Well, I should say so if the conditions are there. The thought of the Lord’s presence banishes all anxiety; it banishes the orphan feeling.

AM Are we tested on this line as to our love for the Lord? “If ye love me”, He says. I was thinking of the Spirit and the bride saying, “Come”, at the close of the dispensation. Could there be anything on this line at all apart from responsive love in the saints?

JT ^[p. 384] I would take the first passage as collective, which I suppose would be the beginning of things, but verse 21, “He that has my commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves me”, contemplates the breakdown in the history of the assembly and refers to the individual loving the Lord and the Lord coming to him. It is an individual matter: “he it is that loves me”. The he is stressed there. “He that loves me shall be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will manifest myself to him”. That is what we are experiencing. These are the manifestations of the Lord, involving not only His coming, but the effect of it in ministry, and perhaps formation too and stirring up of the brethren.

AM In verse 23 it says, “If any one love me, he will keep my word...”.

JT That brings in another thing. This is in answer to Judas, not Iscariot, who says to Him, “Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself to us and not to the world? Jesus answered and said to him, If any one love me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our abode with him”. “Any one” who will keep His word. That is another thing. The keeping of His word would refer to the ministry in relation to the service of God. The Lord has given light as to the service of God, and that implies not only the Lord coming, but the Father also.

AM Would it be that divine Persons really test us as to whether we want Them?

JT Quite so. Love will want Them.

HB You spoke of “one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all”, suggesting, do you think, that divine Persons are active on these lines amongst the saints universally?

JT Quite so, and I think too They are looking for the recognition of the order that belongs to the assembly, that we are doing things rightly. The Lord’s word to Philadelphia, “Thou... hast kept my word”, means that we are doing things rightly, not in a slipshod way.

HB We would be co-operating with divine Persons.

JT No; we are co-operating with one another. Paul says, “And thus I ordain in all the assemblies”, meaning that we are moving together in the things we are doing, in the principles, or methods, or ways we are following, that we are all doing the same thing. As having part in the house of God we should be taught and so learn the law of the house.

Ques You referred to the pattern. Would that suggest that, as the Spirit has His way with us, it leaves room for the Lord to come in?

JT Quite so. The assembly is called “the Christ”, the anointed vessel in which divine principles are maintained. We are following the same principles throughout the world in all the assemblies. No local company has customs of its own. We are all governed by the same principles. I believe that is a most important thing.

Ques Is this all in view of the rapture?

JT It was in my mind that we should be ready for going up. The Lord is preparing us for ascension.