CHRIST AS KNOWN IN THE ASSEMBLY IN THE WILDERNESS

^[p. 157] CHRIST AS KNOWN IN THE ASSEMBLY IN THE WILDERNESS

Acts 7: 37, 38; Deuteronomy 9:7 - 9; Deuteronomy 9:18 - 29; Deuteronomy 10: 1 - 11

JT Attention is called to Moses who, as it says, was in the assembly in the wilderness, and the thought is that we might dwell a little on that this afternoon not simply the wilderness as applying to each individual among the saints, but how we are to be in it collectively and how, according to this type, Christ is to be known in the assembly in the wilderness. He is to be known in the assembly in heaven: God and the Lamb are said to be there. How He is to be known in the wilderness in the assembly is perhaps a thought not much before us, but Stephen by the Spirit alludes to it; having spoken much of Moses, he refers to him, “This is the Moses”, and then, “This is he who was in the assembly in the wilderness”. That is, it is a matter of how He is to be apprehended in the local assembly and how He is to be apprehended in the assembly as a whole in its wilderness setting. Deuteronomy, I thought, especially in the verses read, opens up to us what Moses was himself. It is a retrospective view; the Spirit, through Moses, goes back on the history, calling attention to what the people were under the different circumstances mentioned and what he was amongst them. That was what I had in mind for our consideration.

ESH The intercession of Moses on behalf of the people is very beautiful. Is that a suggestion of Christ in the assembly?

JT Yes. He is seen in an intercessory way, but he is also seen, as you might say, in an atoning way, throughout the book. God was not only angry with them, but He was angry with Moses. In Numbers He is angry with Moses because of Moses’s own ^[p. 158] conduct, but not so in Deuteronomy; there He is angry because of the conduct of the people; so Moses is viewed vicariously in Deuteronomy and also in an intercessory way. It is a great and wide subject in regard to Christ’s atoning work, but what one would like to reach is its application in the principle of it now. How are we to get on without “this Moses”? We should be just tossed about as a ship without a rudder or compass is in the storm save as we have “this Moses” in the assembly in the wilderness, and save as things are in His hands. Moses never lets things go.

Rem It is what Moses is personally.

JT Yes, Deuteronomy gives us the words of Moses in a certain position, and we have geography and time in this book. It says, “These be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness, in the plain over against the Red Sea, between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban ...”, Deuteronomy 1: 1. It is at the confines of Canaan and after the forty years in the wilderness, but still in the wilderness: he represents Christ in the wilderness, that is, in the place of contrariety. Stephen draws attention to him in the assembly in the wilderness; that is what I apprehend we might be profited by, to apprehend what He is in the wilderness.

ESH Is intercession based on atonement having been made?

JT I think the fact brings out the exigencies of the position. Atonement was made typically in Egypt, but its application is acquired in the wilderness in that Jehovah was angry with Moses on their account.

Moses has to stand in the breach. There is constant occasion for anger, for, after all, “Our God is a consuming fire”, but there is always Moses in the assembly standing in the breach.

Ques Have you in mind that matters of administration and discipline cannot be rightly carried out unless we recognise ^[p. 159] Moses in the wilderness?

JT I thought not, Moses in the assembly in the wilderness.

Ques Would it work out in the spirit of Christ as those who are intelligent in the assembly are with the Lord in this way?

JT I think so. 1 Corinthians opens it up to us “When ye are gathered together”, the apostle says, “and my spirit”-that was the kind of spirit that was needed to deal with evil. There was no compromise with Paul’s spirit. But, “with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ”-I think that gives what is meant. The history from Exodus to Deuteronomy inclusive brings out what the people were, and Moses reminds them here of that. He says, “Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the Lord thy God to wrath in the wilderness”.

Ques What are we to understand by the wilderness here?

JT For our subject this afternoon, it began at Horeb; for the individual christian, it begins at the Red Sea as crossed. Horeb is where divine principles and requirements are formally introduced, that is where the conflict against the assembly begins properly; the assembly has the mind of God. The wilderness is the world, it is just where we have been in our unconverted days, the world of contrariety. That is, its principles are directly opposed to what is inaugurated at Horeb, or, as we may say, at Pentecost and in 1 Corinthians. It is a matter of the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, how the saints are to be maintained in such a contrary element. But this Moses is in the assembly in that position; not only has He received living oracles, as Stephen says, but He is there to enforce them. I think when Paul says, “With my spirit”, he means that the spirit of authority must be there and there must be subjection if we are to get on, to prove what our Moses is to us in the assembly in the wilderness. In Hebrews He sings in the midst of the assembly, “In the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises”, the Lord says; that is not in the wilderness properly, that is in the land, but our subject now is the assembly in the wilderness and how we are to get on in the wilderness in assembly with our Moses.

Ques Is that why Paul says, “I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud ... and were all baptised unto Moses”, 1 Corinthians 10: 1, 2?

JT Yes, I think so; we are brought under his authority, and he manifestly had access later, at Horeb, to the holiest at all times. They were “living oracles”, that is, immediate communications; immediate communications marked the whole wilderness period; hence the constant repetition of “Jehovah spoke to Moses saying ...”. One can understand the freshness and power with which Moses would come out and speak the mind of God freshly received; but why should it not be so now? It is only a type of the present time, of the continued presence of the Lord in the assembly in the wilderness.

Rem So that the mind of God is being made known in a fresh living way amongst the brethren in the assembly.

JT Quite so.

Ques You referred to the anger of Jehovah being against Moses. What did you mean by that?

JT Well, the thought of the vicarious sufferings of Christ is brought in; the sufferings of Christ are not merely historical, they are ever present. How can God go on with us? It is only on that ground. Of course it is historical, but it is also a present thing, carried right through Deuteronomy, as you might say.

GAvS Is the assembly of God in the wilderness to be sustained by the sense, in its own practical experience, of how the Lord came into the conditions where He, having been tested and suffering in His ^[p. 161] own spirit, constitutes an occasion and reason why the people of God are being carried through it?

JT Yes, He encountered the thing here where He asserted the will of God. He was here in holy submission and carried every thought of God through infinitely; and then He took full account of the broken law in Israel’s history, as entering into death. It is thus following Him that we get the vicarious thought, the Sufferer, the sufferings of Christ as He vicariously came under wrath. Well, that is ever present, because the crooked ways of Israel in the wilderness are but a type of our own, of what is current; the sense of the vicarious sufferings of Christ is to be ever present with us. I do not think we get a true judgment of things otherwise.

Ques Is the assembly rightly held together on that principle?

JT I think so. There was present in Israel in the assembly in the wilderness a man who had endured divine wrath, in his measure. Typically it is Christ He was “angry with me”. And this man who is speaking is in their midst. The sense of it is there.

Ques Should the thought of “The blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin” (1 John 1: 7), be ever present with us?

JT Quite; the sense of what God is as against sin is never to be absent from us in wilderness conditions. So that he says here, “Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the Lord thy God to wrath in the wilderness; from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the Lord. Also in Horeb ye provoked the Lord to wrath, so that the Lord was angry with you to have destroyed you. When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water”. He brings forward what he endured; it is the presence of this man that keeps things alive, that keeps the right feelings present as to what was due to God. That is what is needed in every locality, to feel things with God.

Ques And to have these feelings in a suffering spirit, would you say?

JT Exactly, that is the point.

Ques Would you say the features that shone out in Moses should be seen amongst the saints?

JT That is what I thought we might reach. Paul says, “When ye are gathered together, and my spirit”, that kind of spirit, the spirit of authority, yet the spirit that feels things with God.

Rem In reading Moses we realise he had feelings with God against evil.

JT That is exactly what comes out. He speaks of not eating for forty days and hungering and of falling down before Jehovah. Well, it is the present Moses who is talking, not an historic Moses merely; it is Christ present in this way. How can we maintain discipline otherwise? I thought we might see in chapter 10 how, with all this, terrible as the conditions were, Israel journeyed spiritually. In the parenthesis, that is, verses 6, 7, “The children of Israel took their journey ... there Aaron died, and ... Eleazar his son ministered ... in his stead”. And “from thence they journeyed ...”, until they came to a land of waterbrooks; that is, I think, dear brethren, what is so beautiful and precious, that is, there is positive movement in presence of all this lawless conduct. And how important the maintenance of discipline and holy order is so that we might reach the land of waterbrooks and come in for the guidance of another Priest, that is, Christ in another way in relation to heaven. Why should there be that parenthesis? It is thirty-eight years historically after what Moses was speaking about-why should it be there? It is to encourage ^[p. 163] us in our maintenance of discipline as to what may be reached through it. The Israel of God is there, and God comes in for His portion, a Levite that He can recognise, and He takes up Levi for His inheritance at this point. So we have a dual state of things: the internal condition of things, and what God can delight in through our heavenly Priest, that is Eleazar.

Ques Would the land of water-brooks indicate the Spirit Himself active in ministry to the conditions of the people after they had faced the discipline of the wilderness?

JT That is precisely, I think, what is meant. We come in for positive ministry in movement in the Israel of God in the midst of all these things. It is to encourage the maintenance of discipline and divine order. You can see how Moses is being honoured in this wonderful spirit of intercessory love for the people that they might be preserved. You can see how God honours a man who comes forward and takes up matters and places himself in the front in suffering, accepting responsibility.

GAvS Would you say it was really the intensity of Moses’s affection for the people that led him to go so specifically through the rebellions of the people, and,. having thus exposed them, bring them to the recognition of that, on the one hand, and the reception of the ministry in the power of the Spirit, on the other hand?

JT You can see how that works out practically in our meetings when discipline is maintained; as the apostle said, “My spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ”. What ministry you get, refreshing things! and we are led into the land of the waterbrooks, which is, of course, Canaan in principle, though still the wilderness position; it is one of the features of Canaan. So I think Moses is honoured in this chapter in that God says, “Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first”, as though it is the Lord’s ^[p. 164] matter now. We come to apprehend how the Father has given all things into the hands of the Son, and we are well off, for it is at this juncture, according to Exodus, that Moses comes down with his face shining; it is the principle of the new covenant.

Ques Would that answer to 2 Corinthians 3? The covenant is referred to, and then it says, “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty”.

JT I think so. That is what 2 Corinthians brings out, the liberty of the Spirit; it is through maintaining order and discipline. When the ark came to rest it is emphasised that there is nothing in it but the two tables of the covenant that Jehovah gave at Horeb.

Ques Would you say that the spirit of suffering that the Lord gave to Moses was a necessary accompaniment of the wilderness position if the two tables were to be carried all the way through in the sense of what God gave at Horeb?

JT I should think so, the spirit of the vicarious Sufferer. No one felt things as Moses did; he was a type of Christ personally. The point, I think, in our localities is being in accord with that, feeling things, and taking them on in relation to the gathering; and I think then God comes in, things are dealt with, and there is a refreshing ministry. Discipline is maintained in the assembly; were it not, there would always be a drag, perhaps the mere repetition of things; but we want water-brooks.

Ques What would you say the discipline is?

JT Well, dealing with evil. We are all under discipline personally, the Father disciplines us severally; but what we are dealing with now is Christ, our Moses, in the wilderness, and what is maintained collectively. The more we are with God the more discipline there will be, because we shall not be afraid to speak to one another. The deeper the love, the greater the knowledge of God in the covenant, the more readiness there will be to discipline one ^[p. 165] another, and then, if it be necessary, to exercise collective discipline, and to exercise it in a dignified way.

Ques Will you explain discipline in the assembly, and the other kind of discipline?

JT Well, each one who is with God has a judgment about every brother he knows; I have a judgment about every brother I know. I am sure Moses had; he knew the elders of Israel well, he had a wide acquaintance with Israel in the wilderness and he had a judgment about them. Well, my relations with that brother would be according to my judgment about him, and that is an advantage to me if I am a spiritual man. My relations with him, my attitude towards him, will be governed by my judgment about him.

Ques Elders who had experience with God and exercised rule were to be found in every city. Would it come in in that way?

JT It works out that way no doubt, but we have a judgment about one another. Think of Romans 16; what a judgment the apostle had about the brethren at Rome as we see in his salutations. His judgment was of their good qualities; that is all he mentions. But were you to ask Paul about Phoebe, for instance, ‘Why are you speaking so well about her?’, he would say, ‘Well, I know her; she is in the church at Cenchrea, which is only a short distance from Corinth where I was for some months, and I acquired a high estimate of her’. Well, that is the basis of his commendation of her. And so throughout the list. He might have told you many things about this and that one: ‘There are things I have serious concern about, but I have them in mind. I have had relations with this and that one’. If any of us come in for assembly discipline, then it is a question of the whole assembly, because, when Achan was stoned, Israel was to stone him, not the elders only; the whole assembly is to ^[p. 166] execute the judgment, and each one ought to have a knowledge of the person.

Ques Would not that principle enter into giving letters of commendation?

JT I thought so. What remarkable knowledge the apostle had of the different persons when he wrote to Rome; and were he to write to other companies, I suppose it would have been in the same way.

Ques There is a character of discipline that does not go so far as stoning; would you say a word about that?

JT Yes; but I think we ought to get clear about this matter of eldership, that is, whilst the younger, and necessarily the sisters, do not take part in the proceedings, they are in the thing; they have a judgment, or they are of no value whatever in the administration: unless we have a judgment we are of no moral value in the administration.

GAvS Is having a judgment of persons or things a part of the education towards eldership?

JT I think it is. How beautifully the neighbours of Naomi, for instance, spoke to her. They knew about her and about Boaz and Ruth; they knew Naomi, she was an old resident in the place: she is thoroughly in fellowship now, and they are altogether with her in the blessing of God. I think that is the way matters should stand; we know each other.

Ques Is that the attitude of John when he addressed his second and third epistles to the elect lady and to Gaius? He addresses them both as elders; he had a judgment about the conditions in the two places, had he not?

JT That brings out what we are saying, that a sister may have part in the administration of discipline.

Ques Was not Israel’s stoning of Achan the outcome of what they had received through Moses as to ^[p. 167] the mind of God? Is that where the eldership comes in?

JT Quite so; the elders come into the knowledge of things through experience. The qualifications of an elder are generally moral. In the first epistle to Timothy and in that to Titus elders were to be appointed, but in Acts 20, they are made by the Holy Spirit. That implies first-hand knowledge definitely of the person; they are qualified. It is not merely a matter of years, but of moral qualifications, and the thing should come out in them formally, but then they are not the only ones who cast a stone.

Ques Psalm 19 speaks of the judgments of the Lord as being “true and righteous altogether”. Would that characterise the judgment in a local assembly?

JT Exactly. The Lord said, “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment”, John 7: 24. If I am to cast a stone, I ought to have a judgment of the person and of the guilt.

Ques You mean instruction in what is pleasing to God?

JT Yes. What is the discipline? and what is it for? what are the principles governing it? Each case of discipline ought to leave its results in education. I believe that is how eldership is promoted.

Ques It says in connection with the sin of Achan that “Israel has sinned”; has that any bearing on the matter?

JT That is another side. It is the obligation of each of us, for the matter has taken place in the midst. The onus is on the company, and we can only clear ourselves by the execution of discipline.

Ques In the case of Achan, there was no confusion in relation to it; why is there often confusion with us in regard to these matters?

JT A meeting for discipline very often takes on the character of a meeting for deliberation. It is not an occasion for deliberation at all; it is for the ^[p. 168] pronouncement of the judgment of the Lord in the assembly. It is not a time for hearing evidence; it is a call for a spiritual, dignified announcement of the evil, the discipline that has to be executed.

Ques Judgment is that which is come to in the assembly meeting; is it reached there?

JT The matter has been diligently enquired into by the brethren in care; a so-called care meeting cannot reach conclusions, the conclusion is in assembly.

Ques But nevertheless you would go from the care meeting with a judgment arrived at in order that there might be the execution of judgment in the assembly?

JT Well, there can be no judgment arrived at in care other than what is tentative; administration belongs to the assembly only.

Rem Judgment cannot have a collective effect apart from the assembly, but in the care meeting individual judgments are found to be more or less in accord.

JT Yes, we reach a judgment tentatively, but our Moses is with us in the assembly in the wilderness, that is, where the saints are convened for discipline and the like. “Where two or three are gathered together unto my name, there am I in the midst of them”, I think would apply.

Ques Would not the matter of confusion that was referred to be due to a very large extent to the lack of an individual apprehension of the real character of things as detailed by Moses as he recited it to them in the wilderness?

JT We see very plainly his own feelings about this; but it is a mischievous thing amongst us to assume that the brethren in care administer decisions reached. The Lord does not like that; it is not our Moses in the assembly in the wilderness.

Rem The Lord is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints.

^[p. 169] JT Just so.

Ques Should the accused person be present when the matter is taken up?

JT Certainly; if he can be induced to be there he should be there.

Ques And you would not get a judgment till he has given an answer or replied to the accusation?

JT I do not think there is any need for that. That raises another question, as to the priestly character of the brethren. The judgment of the assembly does not hinge on anything he might say; the brethren are acting with a perfect knowledge of things. It is not a court of deliberative judgment; that leads up to it; it is simply for the pronouncement of the judgment of the assembly; it is no place for deliberation. It is a dishonour to the Lord to have discussion of pros and cons when the assembly is convened for the administration of discipline. It is not a deliberative court where we have the witnesses, and the case is gone into. The apostles and elders, it says, came together to enquire into the matter, they reached a judgment, and it was ratified. “It has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us” (Acts 15: 28): to the assembly, that is final. 1 Corinthians 5 is a brief statement of the case; it is brief ‘The case being such as it is, I have delivered such an one unto Satan; there are no witnesses to call; the matter is settled’.

Rem The apostle, in that way, has a judgment, but he links himself with the saints in pronouncing it.

JT Just so.

Rem A sense of the vicarious sufferings of Christ would enable us to handle these matters rightly.

JT That is the reason why I think we should pay attention to Moses’s remarks about himself. If we have not a sense of the vicarious sufferings of Christ, I do not think we are qualified to exercise discipline.

^[p. 170] Ques Do you look upon the assembly as being an executive body in this matter of discipline?

JT That is right; the deliberations are all tentative. The Lord is in the assembly to convey His thought of it; our Moses is always with us in that sense; He is there with us to convey His thoughts.

Rem That means you would not, as a matter of practice, have a meeting of that kind until all the deliberations were clear.

JT Quite so. That would rest on the priestly character of the brethren; the saints as a whole, sisters and all, have confidence in the brethren in the exercise of priesthood; they are to be relied on; heaven relies on them: “Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them”. Heaven has confidence in us in that light, so should all the sisters have too; but nevertheless there is that which the Lord so values in an administrative body here in carrying out the will of heaven that it should be carried out in a dignified way. Dignity attaches to the assembly as having the anointing.

Ques You would regard Christ, who is spoken of so many times in Corinthians as the Lord, as being parallel with the suggestion of Moses in these scriptures?

JT That is what I thought, exactly.

Ques I suppose it is important that if the assembly comes to a judgment, it is binding, even if we are not clear about it.

JT Yes, and if I am not with the brethren in it, it is a question of where I am spiritually. Why am I not with my brethren?

Ques Would you say that what led Moses to take up these thoughts was that he saw the people in relation to God? He could say to them, “Ye are my people”, so he could form a judgment of the people as God would look ^[p. 171] at them.

JT Yes. I thought at the outset we are in danger of losing sight of the great gain of this movement of Israel as a thing concurrent with the exercise of discipline; this parenthesis (verses 6, 7) shows the gain there is and the incentive to maintain discipline, because why else should it be brought in here?

Ques Why is the death of Aaron brought in in that connection?

JT I think it contemplates that the brethren are coming to see Christ in His heavenly relations in the assembly. It is another Priest, what He is in the wilderness, entering into all these things with us. Moses is said to have married a Cushite or an Ethiopian; the Lord continued His marital relations with us notwithstanding the ugliness that comes out; He maintains His relations with us. But then there are the inner relations that are not ugly, but very beautiful; what He can see abstractly in His church, He can identify Himself with unreservedly and lead the true assembly spiritually into that land of water-brooks. It is Christ in another way, as the One who sings in the midst of the assembly, but it is brought in there, I think, to encourage us to maintain discipline, for as we maintain it we come into this.

FI There can be no movement apart from discipline.

JT I think that is right. It says, “The children of Israel took their journey”-they are able to journey-”from Beeroth of the children of Jaakan to Mosera; there Aaron died, and there he was buried; and Eleazar his son ministered in the priest’s office in his stead. From thence they journeyed unto Gudgodah; and from Gudgodah to Jotbath, a land of rivers of waters”. And then it says, “At that time the Lord separated the tribe of Levi, to bear the ark of the covenant of the Lord, to stand before the Lord to minister unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day. Wherefore Levi hath no part nor inheritance ^[p. 172] with his brethren; the Lord is his inheritance”. I think all that is beautiful as the heavenly side of things, what we come into, and what we are in measure, I am sure, coming into; but we cannot come into it aside from discipline and the judgment that these chapters assert.

Ques Does Eleazar represent the service of Christ in assembly privilege?

JT That is as I understand it. It is more Hebrews 2, Christ singing in the midst of the assembly. It seems very encouraging that, in spite of all that is current outwardly, there is this inner state of things that the Lord is maintaining. Then another thing that comes out is that God has His portion in spite of all these ugly things; He separated the tribe of Levi to bear the ark of the covenant. God is very particular; He separates this tribe so that the ark is carried; there are no irregularities at all. Levi represents spiritual intelligence amongst us: “To bear the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, to stand before Jehovah to do service unto him, and to bless in his name, unto this day. Therefore Levi has no portion nor inheritance with his brethren; Jehovah is his inheritance”; that is, they are a heavenly people, it is the heavenly side of the truth that comes in here.

Rem And it is absolutely necessary that that principle of separation is established in the hearts of the people of God before they are able to support what is in the heart of Christ down here.

JT Yes. The tribe of Levi is the heavenly side, according to Joshua and Hebrews 12, “the assembly of the firstborn”. What an exit that is from the public state of things contemplated in this chapter.

Rem The change of priesthood makes the priestly service here on earth effective.

JT Quite so. I find in my little experience amongst the brethren that after a care meeting where matters have been gone into and dealt with, and ^[p. 173] pronouncements reached in the assembly, there is usually more liberty in the Lord’s day morning meeting. I think the Lord honours the taking a care of things, that they are not allowed to drag on, but are dealt with as they come up. God gets His part. Levi represents the saints viewed in their heavenly relations, the firstborn ones enregistered in heaven.

Ques We have here the peculiar mention of the ark of wood linking with the closing words of Nehemiah with regard to the wood-offering.

JT It is a question of the kind of humanity, I think, the new order of man; Moses saw to that, that it was there; it is not a mere theory, ‘It is there’, he says; the ark is there in its proper setting.

Ques Would the end of Matthew fit in with the thought of the Lord in the assembly in the wilderness, “Behold, I am with you all the days”?

JT That is it: “All the days”, every day of the week there. When the brethren come together to see that things are adjusted properly, I believe the Lord always honours us and we reach the land of waterbrooks.

Ques Did not great prosperity follow Peter’s taking up things in Acts 5?

JT That is an illustration of it.

Ques Should the judgment arrived at in an assembly meeting be announced to the saints gathered on the Lord’s day morning?

JT What need is there for it, if the assembly is the assembly?

Rem Some have thought that perhaps because publicity has been given to the evil, publicity should be given to the announcement that such a person is no longer walking with us.

JT I do not think we should publish evil, or that the world is entitled to any knowledge of what goes on amongst us. Suffice it that the saints have a ^[p. 174] knowledge of what has been done, that they have a judgment about it.

Ques Should the one being dealt with be notified?

JT He ought to be there; if he is at all an honest man he would be there; certainly he should know what the judgment of the assembly is.