THE BELIEVER IN THE PLACE OF TESTIMONY
THE BELIEVER IN THE PLACE OF TESTIMONY
Genesis 19: 27 - 29; Genesis 21: 8, 9; Genesis 22: 9 - 13; Genesis 24: 61 - 67
JT My object in proposing these scriptures is that we might see how the believer comes into the assembly in the place of testimony here, that is, Sarah’s tent as the position of testimony. Other scriptures may come into view besides those read. I would first call attention to the judgment of the world, which helps us to understand in a preliminary way the position of the church in the world. Then in chapter 20, which is familiar to us all, God calls the attention of the Philistine king to Abraham, that is, to His people here in faith, as it is said, “Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm”, 1 Chronicles 16: 22. It is God intervening, and giving the believer room in the world. “God is not ashamed to be called their God”, Hebrews 11: 16. Then in chapter 21 we have the promised seed owned fully in the household of faith; a feast is made for him when he is weaned; that is, Christ’s Person is seen in full view. In chapter 22 the idea of resurrection comes in; in chapter 23 the death of Sarah; that is, the decease of Israel in the place of testimony, and in chapter 24 Christ and the church Rebecca is led into Sarah’s tent.
EW Why do you emphasise the judgment of the world?
JT It must precede the formation of the church in the new position as the vessel of testimony. The church is consequent on that, this world is already judged: the Lord Jesus said, “Now is the judgment of this world; now shall the prince of this world be cast out”. And in John 16 the Spirit is to “bring demonstration to the world, of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment”. Therefore it is a judged [p. 2] world that we witness in, which makes the position of the believer in the world serious. God has judged it, and we take the issue of God’s judgment.
EW It would help to deliver us from this present evil world which is dominated by the wicked one if we saw that God has judged it.
Ques What is the position of Abraham in these chapters?
JT In the early section of chapter 18 the heavenly man is brought out, who is able to entertain divine Persons here. God had enjoined circumcision, and Jehovah went up from talking with Abraham (chapter 17: 22). Abraham carried out the injunction exactly the selfsame day. Then we see him in a certain position at Mamre honoured with three visitors, Jehovah and two others, whom he entertained. Then follows the announcement of Isaac in the next year. Then Abraham’s priestly qualifications are seen in his interceding for Sodom because of the righteous man in that city. Abraham was accounted righteous on the principle of faith; he was a righteous priest. He goes from fifty down to ten, and God owns his priestly intercession. All this takes place in response to Abraham; he sees the judgment from this standpoint. Every believer ought to take this standpoint. The world is bad; God has judged it after the intercession of Abraham to save it.
Ques Is it essential, in order to take our place intelligently in the assembly, to begin with judgment regarding the world?
JT You see things as God sees them from that point of view; Abraham stood where he had stood before Jehovah.
Ques You would try and link up the church and the world otherwise?
JT You would save the world if you could. Abraham was not wanting in patience in view of the righteous, but there were not ten found. When the [p. 3] Lord destroyed the cities wherein Lot dwelt, He remembered Abraham, and sent out Lot. It brings out what Abraham was; he would save the world if it could be saved. He had power with God; Lot was saved through his intercession.
-. S. It is a very serious thing and should affect us much that God has judged the world.
JT God spared Lot. He “is longsuffering ... not willing that any should perish”.
S Abraham was with God about the matter.
JT That is the ground we all take as believers, and from that standpoint get God’s view of the world as judged; Abraham saw the smoke go up from there. There is no question about it.
K The judgment was more fully seen in Christ’s death.
JT The Father and the Spirit all bring condemnation on it. In John 12 we have the death of Christ “I, if I be lifted up out of the earth, will draw all to me”. Then the Spirit, when He comes, will convince the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment (John 16: 8). Then there is the epistle of John. The judgment is evident, for the smoke goes up as the smoke of a furnace. The Holy Spirit has come in and brought demonstration into the world by means of the saints; at Pentecost they were convicted. There are those in whom the Spirit today convicts the world. Anyone going into it is doubly responsible as there are those through whom the Spirit convicts.
MWB Corinthians begins with the cross of Christ as the ground for refusing the world. Then the Spirit refuses the world; so in a double sense we are responsible not to go into it.
JT In another place Paul says he is crucified to it and it to him. That is a further thought.
MWB Before one can entertain the thought of the church with reference to testimony, one must see [p. 4] that the world is judged, and the double demonstration of it in the witness of the Spirit.
JT It is the sphere of judgment; therefore it is doubly serious to go into it.
FW Have you any thought why Abraham is allowed to go down to Gerar?
JT It is so in the overruling of God. He went down into Egypt; God allowed that in His overruling. I think it affords an opportunity to bring out what He thinks of Abraham; we should not have known that God called him a prophet but for that. It shows God’s thoughts of him, and also brings out what we get in another place, “Touch not mine anointed ones, and do my prophets no harm”, 1 Chronicles 16:22. He would tell the Philistine king His thoughts of Abraham through this occasion. Abraham is superior to him. Chapters 20 and 21 bring out the place the man of faith has with God. He is a prophet, and is in moral superiority over Abimelech; he gives him sheep, and he reproves him. He puts seven ewe-lambs by themselves, indicative of the spirit of Abraham, as witness that he did dig the well; that is on the line of Romans, overcoming evil with good. It shows how the man of faith qualifies to occupy the church position in the place of testimony; superior to what Israel ever was.
JOS We need to learn that the world as a system is judged before we can understand the assembly.
JT What the world is has come out through the Lord’s presence here; what it really is. The presence of Christ here tested it.
JOS The world as a system lies in the wicked one.
FW We need encouragement if we have been on the downward grade to see that God will never depart from the anointing; He has in view our recovery.
JT God is justified in what He had accomplished; Abraham prayed to God, and God healed Abimelech and all his people. Abraham was a priest, for he had spoken to God about Sodom; now he prayed for [p. 5] Abimelech, and God answered him. What a great place faith has in a world that is judged! God can go on with the world provisionally, and the gospel can be presented to it. It is a great honour to faith. God calls the attention of the king to Abraham in that way. It shows the place we have in relation to the world; we pray for those in it. What moral superiority it gives to the Christian! After Isaac is recognised and Ishmael cast out chapter 21 brings out how Abraham is growing in moral power. It is no use to talk of the testimony aside from moral power; or of the church position, if my business affairs are not right. It is the poorest thing to be only nominally in the position as Israel was. There must be practical righteousness.
MWB Is that why the elder must “have a good report of them which are without”, because he stands in a certain public position in connection with the testimony?
JT They look at you, of course.
MWB You learn to overcome evil with good.
JT Stephen was known as a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit. The armour of Romans is the armour of light, and it is connected with righteousness. There is no light in anyone aside from righteousness.
“Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness”, Psalm 132: 9. You cannot pray in the prayer meeting for the nations unless you are clothed in righteousness.
JOS That is why it says in Romans 13, “Owe no one anything”.
Rem The injunction in 2 Timothy 2 is “Pursue righteousness ...”; righteousness is first.
JosT To be here for the will of God would be fulfilling righteousness, would it not?
JT The Lord says, “Thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness”. And in Romans we read, “In order that the righteous requirement of the law should be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to flesh but according to Spirit”. Before the world we [p. 6] must be characterised by righteousness. In John eternal life is the testimony, in Romans righteousness.
JOS Righteousness involves being subject to our limitations: they come in as the will of God, and we learn to accept them.
MWB Why did you emphasise the weaning of Isaac?
JT The thought is that we should be detached from the natural. The setting is John’s gospel. In John 2 the Lord’s mother says to Him, “They have no wine”. His answer is, “What have I to do with thee, woman? mine hour has not yet come”. He was detached from her. Faith begins to see Christ apart from what He was here in the natural setting. The Lord alludes to this when He says, “Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad”. Christ being detached from the natural should so affect us that we should not be so under its sway.
Rem In Genesis 22 we have the offering up of Isaac. Even he has to go.
JT The weaning is not so far as that; that is a further thought. The weaning is that we are detached from the natural. “Though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more”. And even He has to go in death, and be offered up, to reach the thought of God. He has to be surrendered in death. Abraham received Isaac back from the dead in figure. That is what the believer has. He is filled up with Christ! Full of Christ he can come into the place of testimony here.
MWB That is how you view the history of Abraham: what the believer has.
JT These chapters bring out how the man of faith, the heavenly man, qualifies for the place of testimony, that is, Sarah’s tent. It must be occupied; it cannot be empty. Men of faith, heavenly men, are to occupy it and grace the position. What do you think, Mr. [p. 7] W.?
EW That would be further progress made by those who see the world is judged. I am following with interest what you say.
JT The natural is the old things: “Old things have passed away”. We may have faith, but it takes us a long time to get clear of the natural. Even Abraham wanted to retain Ishmael in spite of the mother and the mocking.
JOS Does he get clear of the natural when he calls on the name of the eternal God?
JT Quite so. Eternal is in contrast with natural.
EW The natural is often a great hindrance to us in spiritual relationships.
JT You will find in the most spiritual that adjustment as to the natural is needed. It is so hard to get rid of. But it hides the full position of Rebecca; she was led into it; it is a position we take up from the divine side. We are led into that position. The Lord led His disciples as far as Bethany, to that point. That is not fully Sarah’s tent; Rebecca is the full thought of the church. The church is not a remnant of something else; it is something entirely new, though there were a few at the beginning who were a remnant of Israel; the testimony was continued on for some time in that setting. Rebecca is the full thought of the church, Paul’s church, not the pentecostal church.
WJT Would that correspond with the epoch of Abraham, who was the heavenly man?
JT From Abel to Noah we have men for the earth. “While the earth remaineth”, there would be certain conditions. Noah was recovered for the earth, then God called out another man, who was to be heavenly, alluding to the church. Noah was not that. Isaac was offered up upon the mountain; there is no record that he came down. He occupies that place alone, and the church is brought to Him. She is taken into Sarah’s tent by the heavenly man.
EW She is “of Christ”, of His kindred.
[p. 8] Ques Would you say a word about the pentecostal church?
JT The pentecostal church is not that seen in Revelation 21; that is the external view built on the foundation of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Their ministry is there. See the grace and liberty she has! Rebecca is led into Sarah’s tent. You have the full thought there.
FW The Pentecostal church, I suppose, is based on Peter’s ministry.
JosT Would Sarah’s tent be like Paul’s hired lodging in the end of the Acts, when he received all who came unto him and spoke to them of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God?
JT His testimony was that the salvation of God was sent to the gentiles. Sarah’s tent is a definite place of witness; a well-known place occupied by the church.
MWB Isaac led her into that from his exalted plane.
JT The servant’s name is not given. It was not Eliezer (as is generally supposed); he was a domestic, a servant of the house; Abraham spoke of him as “this Eliezer of Damascus”. In chapter 24 the servant chosen is said to be the eldest of his house, the ruler over all that he had. That is a big thing; and he was a person of great dignity, over his house. He was put under the solemn charge of not taking Isaac back.
That is Paul’s ministry. Christ is not taken out of heaven, but as the heavenly Man, the church is brought to Him. Then we have Isaac coming into the field to meditate at evening; that is, Christ represented in perspective for faith. Rebecca springs down off the camel. The Spirit of God depicts so beautifully the heavenly position. She is led into Sarah’s tent for testimony.
MWB Meeting with Isaac is the heavenly position; she comes from there to the place of testimony [p. 9] previously occupied by Israel. That is the peculiar position of Sarah’s tent. It is reached on coming down, not on coming out of Syria.
JT From chapter 15, as we move on in faith we are led on to that ground.
BAH To be a comfort to Christ. Sometimes we are not.
JOS The last few verses of John 15 concerning the Spirit as the Comforter and the Witness, and “ye too bear witness”, would cover the beginning. Then Paul’s testimony follows.
Rem It would enhance the character of the testimony if it is carried out by those who are heavenly.
JT We see what a great place the church has.
She was of Isaac’s kindred. Before the servant set out to find her she was known to be there. At the end of Genesis 22 it was told to Abraham that she was there, in the line of Nahor.
Rem You feel that the testimony goes out, but we need to be exercised as to how far we testify on that line.
JT The gospel is preached on the line that Rebecca is there. That is the point in the genealogy in the end of Genesis 22. It was told Abraham that Micah had borne eight sons to Nahor; and the Spirit of God adds, “And Bethuel begat Rebecca”. She was there. No preacher would doubt that; he must get her. The church is brought to Christ that way. Isaac is out of sight; he does not come down from the mountain; the Holy Spirit presents things in that way to us. Abraham was told about her; and he must get her.
Rem That is what the man of faith does.
MWB The omissions of Scripture are very wonderful. That is the point of view the Spirit wishes to emphasise.
JT That is the way Scripture presents [p. 10] things.
FH The Lord said to Paul about Corinth, “I have much people in this city”.
JT Paul did not labour in vain.
Ques Would you say a little more on the difference between leading Rebecca to Isaac, and Isaac leading her to the tent?
JT Christ will give us our place in the testimony. It is not so much the line there; she is led into the tent; she became his wife and he loved her; these are general facts mentioned. The Lord fixes our position; He must dispose of us. Rebecca was leadable; she did not say, ‘This tent is not suitable; I want a better tent than that’. It is a question of the Lord disposing of us.
E W. Does the thought of union enter into this?
JT Oh, yes. “It is not good that Man should be alone; I will make him a help-mate, his like”. But Christ as the heavenly Man is in dignity, self-contained.
Isaac felt the loss of his mother, Israel. He had come from the well Beer-lahai-roi; he had plenty of resources. At eventide he was walking in the fields to meditate. When the servant said, “That is my master!”, she recognises his position and acts becomingly. He leads her into his mother’s tent. The Lord is assigning the church her place here in testimony. Not that He is going to reside with her there always, but she is to take up that position.
F W. “Behold, I and the children which God has given me”; Jehovah had given them to Messiah.
JT That does not take you off Israel’s ground. Rebecca is a new person to take up the position of testimony. It is not the final position.
Rem The servant had so magnified his master that she, on meeting him, covers herself.
JT The thought is that Abraham was his master, carried forward in Isaac. All that we know of God is in Christ; we never regard Christ in any other light.
“[p. 11] That all may honour the Son, even as they honour the Father”.
MWB In Colossians the greatness of the Person is brought before us. The church here in Israel’s position comes into that.
JT It is well to keep in mind that it is another, not Sarah. She is brought in the Spirit’s power to another man. When she sees Isaac, she springs off the camel. She does that in her own power.
Rem So the tent is a provisional thought.
JT Israel will come into it again; but today the testimony runs on. Israel has been in that tent and will comes into it again; but it is now occupied by the church. The church holds it today as Israel could not hold it; we see the superiority of the church in every way over all other families.
HW The ark was in a tent provisionally, the tabernacle.
JT Yes; like that, it is a provisional thought and runs on. Israel was in the place of testimony, now it is taken up by the church. All we get in the Old Testament is seen in a greater way in the church than ever it could have been seen in Israel.
EW Perhaps it would help if you would say what is in your mind as to the testimony.
JT It is what God set out.
EW Is it what God has here?
JT It is illustrated in Ephesians 2: 4, “God, who is rich in mercy” and “His great love”. They are seen in the way He has taken us out of death. We were “dead in trespasses and sins”, far away from God, degraded. But without anything to commend us to God, God has quickened us. That is what God has done. He does it. “God ... has raised us up together, and has made us sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus”, in order to set forth the riches of His grace. He has prepared good works beforehand that we should walk in them.
E W. It is God’s work; He started it and He will finish it.
JT It is seen in the assembly, which is Christ’s body.
MWB If it is not diverting you from what you have before you, may I ask what is the connection of eternal life with the testimony? You referred to it earlier in John’s epistle.
JT That is a very important matter, and one we all need help on. You will have noticed that the Lord touches the subject in John 3 where it is a question of dealing with our state. He says, “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of man be lifted up, that every one who believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal”. That, of course, refers to the brazen serpent. In Numbers 20 the children of Israel, after they had drunk water from the rock which Moses smote twice, instead of speaking to it (nevertheless the waters gushed out), send a personal message to Edom, saying, “Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country”; we will pay our way, go on our own feet, by the king’s highway, and so on. In great dignity they tell Edom all that God has been to them; how He brought them out of Egypt, and led them through the wilderness. But Edom refused, so they had to go by the way of the Red Sea and round the territory of Edom. Now suppose the brethren ask me to do something unreasonable; for Edom compelled Israel to take a detour round by the Red Sea. Well, Israel were grieved, and complained, and spoke against God and against Moses! You can hardly credit it! It indicates that people who could send that beautiful address to Edom spoke against the God who had been so good to them! The incident brings out something that was there, that they did not know was there, that was very bad. We are capable even at the advanced stage of christianity of speaking against God! We have not discerned [p. 13] yet how bad we are, and what we are capable of! Even a spiritual man, who could go on his own feet, and pay his way, if the brethren ask him to do something unreasonable, speaks against God and against His servant! Therefore the fiery serpents are sent, which bite the people, and they were perishing. Then the serpent of brass was lifted up. It is the terrible state of the flesh that we are so slow to discern. The Lord alludes to this when He says, “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, thus must the Son of man be lifted up, that every one who believes on him may ... have life eternal”. It is a question of life in the sense of fulness of joy and superiority over death. The testimony of John is that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
MWB We become available thus in testimony here in the world on behalf of God.
JT Those who enjoy it.
Rem It is a living testimony in the saints, and is the result of arriving at that judgment.
JT “We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren”.
Rem The love of the brethren becomes a testimony.
JT John says, ‘I write unto you because ye know’. That word ‘know’ is conscious knowledge. The saints know they are in superiority, because they love the brethren.
Rem Israel was in the place of testimony; now we become the testimony.
JT See how these christians love one another!
MWB I like that thought. Then as we are in the enjoyment of spiritual things now we are brought into the region of the testimony.
JT In John 3: 12, “Earthly things” refer to the serpent being lifted up, “heavenly things” to eternal life. Heavenly things belong to the One who has ascended up. He has been down and has been “lifted up”. That is the fulness [p. 14] of the thought.
MWB That is a matter of concern and spiritual apprehension to link eternal life to the One who is in heaven.
JOS In John 6 the Lord Jesus says, “Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?”. The Lord suggests that everything is outside flesh and blood condition.
JT He belongs to Canaan. Eternal life is for the earth. We are blessed “with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ”. They are enhanced in us while they are not seen in Israel. But they will be by and by.
Rem John desires that our joy may be full. Lack of joy is the cause of testimony being so poor.
JT Eternal life is the blessing. It is difficult to appreciate it if we have not discovered what we are capable of, that is, speaking against God and against Moses!
EW What have you in mind about chapter 22?
JT That is to bring out that the heavenly man, that is, Christ after the flesh, must be surrendered in death vicariously if faith is to reach the goal. It is a supreme test to Abraham, but he answers to the test, and heaven speaks to him twice; thus it becomes one of the great landmarks in Scripture. You too have to pass that way. Sarah dies. We have to go that way if we make any headway. I think Abraham understands eternal life, because he is seeing about burying her. Why does he want to bury her? Faith sees resurrection. In the light of faith Isaac is raised; that is, Christ is in heaven; we bury our dead in the full confidence that they will be raised.
MWB “I will raise him up at the last day”?
JT The whole of chapter 23 is taken up with the burial of Sarah. The field is bought, the trees bought, not for display; the field is bought for the cave that is in it, that Abraham may bury his dead out of his sight. The field becomes the occasion of the display [p. 15] of eternal life. Nowhere does life come into evidence more than at a burial; it is for testimony and display. The brethren are there; they are not under the power of death; they are living. You bury in faith. You bury a person because he will be raised, in view of the resurrection. The hymns are hymns of praise and victory, for display of the testimony of divine power.
Saints are buried in the light of resurrection. Else if there is no resurrection (as some say) Paul says, “Let us eat and drink, for to-morrow we die”. But it is not so. Tomorrow we shall be raised. The trees are for shelter.
MWB In the light of resurrection you would say it is very unbecoming for a Christian to be cremated.
JT Oh, certainly. Burial is the thing, because they “shall come forth”, superior to death. Sarah is the first person buried.
JOS Hebron is the light of another world.
JT Hebron has in view the cave of Machpelah. “All these died in faith”.
JOS They had a view of “the land” afar off.
JT Genesis 23 is introduced into Hebrews 11, and into the section of the bush. Jehovah said to Moses, “I am ... the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”. The Lord Jesus tells us that God “is not God of the dead but of the living-, for all live for him”. They were living though they had all been buried. That is the realm of life of Hebrews 11.
Rem “Abraham rose up from before his dead”.
JT That shows the power he had. Jacob “gathered his feet into the bed, and expired”. It shows the power of life in the saints. It is only a little while we shall be buried. That is faith’s point, and the believer has it.
Rem The testimony is before all who went in at the gate of [p. 16] the city.
JT Verse 17 describes the position. It was a great public testimony. Why does he buy the field and trees? Faith is the answer. There is nothing without it. We live in the faith period. “Without faith it is impossible to please him”. We are “risen with him through the faith of the operation of God”. We come into it by faith-into all we have spoken of.