SPIRITUAL UNITY IN THE MINISTRY OF JOHN (1)

SPIRITUAL UNITY IN THE MINISTRY OF JOHN (1)

1 John 5:6-10; 2 John 1-13; 3 John 1-8; 3 John 12-14

SMcC It is proposed that we should look at the subject of spiritual unity in the ministry of John. As the brethren would recall immediately at the mention of it, unity has a great place in his ministry. It is a very full and extensive subject in his ministry, entering into all his writings. It is proposed that we should look this morning first at unity in relation to the truth, which has such a prominent place in the passages that we have read. Then we may, if the Lord should help, go to the Revelation, and see unity in the ministry of John as it appears in the testimonial position in relation to reproach and suffering, and also, in relation to glory, in the administrative setting. Then we may go to the gospel of John, for the extensive side of the subject, to see how spiritual unity develops in relation to the servants and their service; and in relation to the flock and the family of God figuratively set out in John’s ministry. Then we shall need to see how it enters into the great subject of the service of God, where under the hand of the minister of the sanctuary, as in John 17, the great thoughts of unity and oneness are stressed. Then entering into it, and running alongside of it, we have the great truths of eternal life, and sonship, and the revelation of God in Christ, all having in mind the promotion of this thought of spiritual unity amongst us.

Now in proposing 1 John 5 to be read, one has in mind that we should consider first of all that this unity must have a moral basis. Any unity that does not have a moral basis amongst us will not last very long. The brethren will remember how, in the history of Jehoshaphat, he joined himself to the wicked king Ahaziah in regard to the ships, and how God intervened to break them up; 2 Chronicles 20: 35 - 37. How much there has been around of amalgamation, and the promotion of a unity that does not have its basis in the water and the blood, and in relation to the Spirit. So it is thought that we should first consider the Spirit, and the water and the blood, whose witness agrees in one. If the witness agrees in one, as it is received, and as it affects the brethren, it must produce a corresponding subjective result with us, so that there is spiritual unity. Then, not only do we have a moral basis emphasised in the first epistle, but the truth comes on to our view in the second epistle as the great bond by which we are bound together. We want to see the importance of the truth, as entering into the way we are bound together in spiritual unity. The truth is a most important and effective bond; we cannot disregard it. We want to see its importance in the second epistle, where reference is made to the doctrine of the Christ, taking us back to what has come out in the teaching of Christ, and in His ministry, linked with the revelation of God in Him. Then we should see how love enters into the matter, too, as in verse 5 of the second epistle, “And now I beseech thee, lady, not as writing to thee a new commandment, but that which we have had from the beginning, that we should love one another. And this is love, that we should walk according to his commandments”. And then, the witness to the love of Gaius before the assembly is very affecting, especially as we see the controlling and dominating place that the truth has in both these relations. But first of all, we have this matter of the water which stresses the moral side with us, and the essentiality of a purified state amongst us. We are to be free from what is of the world, and free from what is linked with the man of sin and shame, so that the spiritual unity to which we refer can be promoted. That is what was in mind, counting on the Lord to help.

AJG I am sure it will be profitable to us.

JTJr Would the thought of unity be in the Lord’s service in the gospels and connected with the service of the apostles in the Acts, so that it is one thing that has come down to us?

SMcC I thought so. I thought it was embodied in the expression “the doctrine of the Christ”. What was set out in the Lord’s service and in the service of the apostles, as you say, has come down to us; and we are to be affected by it. There is no new development, as it were; there is nothing to be added to that. We are coming into it in our time, on the line of recognising what is there and being controlled by it.

PL So that Christianity is all set forth in the Person of Christ. There has been nothing added, nor could there be, whatever unfoldings the Spirit has afforded.

SMcC So that John stresses what is from the beginning. It is an important matter that we are to be affected and regulated by what is from the beginning; the fathers, that is those in a position of parental influence among the saints, being specially alluded to as knowing Him that is from the beginning. So that things are maintained in relation to that.

JTJr Would you think then that the ministry of John comes in especially in view of the disunity that is in Christendom?

SMcC One has felt that very specially. We even get in John’s gospel the prophetic announcement through Caiaphas as to the Lord’s death, and John the evangelist in commenting on it by the Spirit refers to the important point that “he should also gather together into one the children of God who were scattered abroad”, John 11: 52. That is a remarkable reference bearing on the prophecy preceding from the mouth of a man like Caiaphas, but it shows us abstractly what is in mind in John’s ministry.

JTJr I thought too, that the disunity that is in Christendom may have its reflection amongst us.

SMcC Therefore we are to be searched in relation to the matter, and one feels it brings up the need for emphasis on the water. That is, the death of Christ in its separative and purifying aspect, as that which would set us apart from all the divisive features and elements amongst us, and in us, that in the world make way for the man of sin.

APCL The first reference to the water in verse 6 is “he that came by water and blood, Jesus the Christ”. It is connected with the Person; it is not only an abstract matter in that sense, but “This is he that came”. I was thinking of what has been said as to what is in the Person.

SMcC And does not this become the great test in Christianity? John says earlier, “every spirit which confesses Jesus Christ come in flesh is of God; and every spirit which does not confess Jesus Christ come in flesh is not of God: and this is that power of the antichrist, of which ye have heard that it comes, and now it is already in the world”. That is, all that is around us is affected by the influence of antichristian principles, that would bring in a rival to Christ, and bring in what is divisive in that sense.

JBS What would the name “Jesus the Christ” be intended to convey to us?

SMcC I think it is to call our attention to a different kind of humanity, a different kind of Man. In the gatherings, in the assemblings, we need to see the importance of a different kind of humanity. All around us in Christendom we see the kind of humanity that likes to have a vain show, what will make much of the flesh, and in the world we see the kind of humanity that will make everything of what is material - money, and power in a material and political way, but in the assembly we are to be affected by this different kind of humanity - “Jesus the Christ”.

AJG The Man who is approved and anointed of God - the Christ.

SMcC Exactly. That is the kind of humanity that God can commit Himself to. And the water is to help us to judge unsparingly in our souls the features of the humanity and of the kind of man that He has expressed His displeasure in regard to in the death of Christ, typified in the water.

PHH What exactly is pointed to in the thought of coming? “This is he that came by water and blood”, Is it to concentrate our attention on these two things?

SMcC I think it is. It is not a question of what is chronological, it is not a question exactly of a point of time, it is a question of the Lord coming into the sphere of the testimony, where full witness and testimony is to be rendered to this kind of humanity.

PHH Therefore it includes the historical matter of His death, where the water and the blood became manifest. Would the death of Christ in that respect be one of the points in the testimony?

SMcC It is. And we are to note in that sense, that in the gospel, the blood comes first, whereas in the epistle the water comes first. Well, that is not for nothing. In the gospels, things are presented to us objectively for faith to lay hold of, but when we come to John’s epistle, the state of the saints is in mind, so that the water precedes the mention of the blood.

AJG John lays particular stress on the witness. “He who saw it”, he says, referring to the coming out of the blood and water, “bears witness, and his witness is true, and he knows that he says true that ye also may believe”, John 19: 35. Does he not attach great importance to this matter of the blood and the water, in the gospel, and the water and the blood in the epistle?

SMcC It is very interesting to see that, how along with the witness is stressed the moral value of the witness, the authenticity of it, “he who saw it bears witness, and his witness is true”. There is thus abundant authoritative witness to this matter of the blood and the water; and the water and the blood. This is very important, because in the general position, in the professing body, and coming nearer, amongst ourselves, there is sometimes great uncertainty and perhaps wonderment, as to what is really the truth; whereas John would emphasise that what he says is true. That is specially important in those that minister.

AH Has John in mind the maintenance of the saints in victory?

SMcC I would say so, the beginning of the chapter emphasises that. How can victory be maintained amongst us, and how can spiritual unity be established, if this moral basis is not right in our souls? We must have a judgment as to the state from which there arises the difficulties, the unbelief, the deception, and all that is linked with that man. We are to have a right judgment of it, and, through the water aspect of the death of Christ, see the value of a new state.

GRC Would it be justifiable to bring in Paul’s doctrine to support what has been said? He says in Ephesians, “But ye have not thus learnt the Christ, if ye have heard him and been instructed in him according as the truth is in Jesus; namely your having put off according to the former conversation the old man ... and your having put on the new man, which according to God is created in truthful righteousness and holiness”, Ephesians 4: 20 - 24. I was wondering whether “the doctrine of the Christ”, as has been indicated, and our learning of Him involves His present position, and the truth in Him as set out where He is; and that involves the water, our having put off the old man.

SMcC I think there is a definite link with Paul’s ministry in that setting. We often refer to the locating points in John’s ministry that link on with Paul’s, and this is one that particularly links on with that section to which you refer, as to truthful righteousness and holiness. The water has to do with that state amongst the saints, where there is nothing opaque, where there is nothing clandestine, where there is uprightness and transparency, and where the truth has full place.

GRC So that the truth as it is in Jesus involves our having put off the old man. Does not the water imply that, that we have done it by profession, and we are to do it in practice? Is that right?

SMcC That is how I understand it.

JTJr So that baptism is the crux of the matter as to application, not just profession?

SMcC Exactly. The death of Christ, in that separative way, sets us apart from the world, and the man that is in it, and the taking up of the practical teaching of it involves our arrival at this new state, where things are transparent, things are upright amongst us.

RW Is that seen in the eunuch, who after he had listened to the word said, “Behold water”? He was baptised and went on his way rejoicing.

SMcC He got an impression as to the need of the water; and would to God that we all had a greater impression of the need of the water. Why is it that so many princes amongst us have fallen out by the way? I believe, speaking soberly and calculatingly, that it is because the water, and the state which the water produces, have been lacking.

That bears on us all now, for every one of us, in our hearts and our souls, should be greatly concerned, that the state which the water produces should not be lacking.

AJG Would you say that the sense of the need of the water produces the sense of the need positively of the Spirit, as the power for the new life, and as the witness to us?

SMcC So the water can only be rightly arrived at in its value, or be applied, in the power of the Spirit, in that sense. It is not a question of the human mind, or the resource of the flesh entering into it, because the water sets all that aside.

AJG And the Spirit comes into prominence as the truth. “It is the Spirit that bears witness, for the Spirit is the truth”.

SMcC It is very important to see the Spirit referred to in this way, because it links on with the truth as the bond of fellowship in the second and third epistles. The Lord is the truth objectively, at the right hand of God, but the Spirit is the truth subjectively here in the saints.

JSE May there be some explanation for us now, as to how, since the Spirit has acquired a personal place among the brethren. He has had scope to bring emphasis into the ministry as to purification? One was wondering whether the word in Hebrews, “Sprinkled as to our hearts from a wicked conscience, and washed as to our body with pure water”, would have any bearing upon what is in your mind?

SMcC It has a very definite bearing. The recovery of the saints to the recognition of the Spirit, and what is due to Him, and the place that He has in the service of God, in an all-embracive way, is not only to affect us objectively, but it is to affect us subjectively and practically, in all associations of life. So that the Lord has been stressing, on the eve of translation, the importance that we should be clean from every feature of the state that has been set aside in the death of Christ.

JSE We have come into the gain of this better translation. According to the Authorised Version heaven and earth stood in contrast, reference being made to three bearing witness in heaven, and three on earth, but does the Spirit and the water, and the blood, all apply to us as here on the earth?

SMcC It is important to see that because the whole point is our position in the testimony here. It is remarkable how the numeral three comes into it, because the numeral three has a great place in God’s world. We have the three in creation, and we have the three in the tabernacle system, supremely we have the Three in the Trinity. And it is remarkable that we should have the three referred to in this way here, “and the three agree in one”. There is no diversity in thought in the witness here. And there would be no diversity of thought, or action, in the result and the effect that it produces, in the state that is marked by what is effected by the death of Christ in this way.

CMM Is the washing of the robes in Revelation 22 connected with the water?

SMcC I think so. It is not the blood so much, important as the blood is, and we do not want to miss it here, but what is stressed is the water. Especially is it important in persons being accorded to the right to the tree of life, as it says in Revelation 22, that there should be clear testimony to the fact that the water, typically speaking, is employed by them in the washing of their robes.

EEH Is there a link with what you have in mind in John 3 in the Lord’s own words, “Except any one be born of water and of the Spirit”?

SMcC There is a link, only in John 3 it is the basic side that is emphasised, what is there basically through the operation of God to begin with, in new birth. When we come to the epistle where we have “begotten of God”, we come to what is fuller, and what involves testimony presented, which by faith and by the Spirit, we lay hold of and apply.

JMcK Is your thought that the full result should be seen in the saints in this holy agreement?

SMcC That is what is in one’s mind. The result of what we have here would be spiritual unity or oneness in the saints.

JMcK You mean that the idea of witness involves something that can be identified, and the three agreeing in one, in this witness, would be in the saints as affected?

SMcC Exactly. Why is it that diversity of opinion and of judgment comes up amongst us? It must be that the matter of the water has not the place that it should have, especially where evil may be involved.

AH In Zechariah 13, after the prayers of chapter 12, you have the fountain opened in Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. And what follows upon that is remarkable unity as to the exclusion of idols, and even those who minister wrongly. Does that bear on what you have in mind?

SMcC It does. Zechariah is concerned about uncleanness, and we should be concerned about uncleanness wherever we are, in any part of the world; for in our time, the Lord is stressing practical conditions amongst the saints, subjective conditions entering into this matter of life, and spiritual unity, because the life is to work out in spiritual unity. It is not just an abstract idea of life, it is to work out in spiritual unity among the brethren as the features of the world are abominated and judged and set aside in our souls.

HW Is the same end in view in Paul’s ministry, where he presses in all his assembly epistles, the truth of the cross?

SMcC Yes, you can see what a place the water had with Paul. I am sure it raises the question with all of us, as to the place that the water has with us, not just in teaching, and what is set out; but the place that the water has in our souls, whether we are marked by a purified state in our souls. If we minister or serve without being marked by a purified state, pure motives and pure thinking, we are bound to impart that to those that we minister to and serve. It is bound to have a reaction in them, with a result that corresponds.

MAW Would “the washing of water by the word” (Ephesians 5: 2) be a similar thought?

SMcC There is a link in it with what we have here; it all shows the importance of the death of Christ in the water aspect. What would you say. Mr. M.?

AEM I think it is very important that we should understand this, particularly with those that minister. If the minister is not clear, the saints will not be clear.

SMcC You feel that very much, and the word comes home, as we speak together, and seek to help one another in relation to this matter. It is an important matter that practical, subjective conditions, a right state, should be present in those that serve and minister amongst the saints.

CJHD It was in a place where it says there was a great deal of water, that the minister was able to say “He must increase, but I must decrease”.

SMcC You mean John the baptist in chapter 3 of the gospel. Just so. John’s ministry came along the line of the water, and the Jews were puzzled by him, as the Jews always will be puzzled by the minister who brings the water in.

AEM Before you minister you must be assured before God as to your own moral state, and the truth that you minister must be clear in your mind. You would not minister in connection with what you do not know.

SMcC That is very important, because it involves the result in the saints. We are to see, therefore, the care that is needed that the truth should not be taken on lightly, and should not be ministered lightly. It should first have reaction in the soul of the minister, in the presence of God, so that his motives are pure; there is no opaqueness with him. You know where he is and where he stands. You have no difficulty, there is no obliqueness in what he says, or what he means to say. This is very important, for it is one of the cunning devices of the enemy, that where he has been defeated in the open battlefield, as at Calvary in the death of Christ, he has resorted to means of deception; and where he was defeated in the spirit of the martyrs who would not yield, he has resorted to deception, so that as the church came under the power of the State in the time of Constantine, worldliness came in, the death of Christ, in water aspect, was set aside. So as we come right down to our own times, in those that minister, if the water has not got its place, we shall resort to human means to make up for spirituality, and to make up for a purified state of things in our souls.

CH Would the teaching of this therefore imply death to what the man is, and not only what he has done? I think so often we limit the death of Christ to what we have done, whereas it has the utmost importance in its application to what the man is.

SMcC That is very important, it involves the end of the man. That is, the water flowed from a dead Christ. The water did not flow from the Lord before He died, it flowed out of the side of a dead Christ, meaning that man was ended, as the Lord entered into death. He entered death vicariously in order that that condition which in us, sin attached to, might be terminated.

WC Would Peter, as a minister, have all this in mind, in regard of the sheet? We get there “what God has cleansed”, as though it is a complete thing before God. There is the complete sweeping away of man after the flesh, but having in mind the securing of men after the order of Christ. Then it is “Rise up, Peter, slay and eat”. I was thinking of what Peter said in his epistle as to souls being saved through water at the time of the flood. Would not Peter have that in mind as preceding the vision of the sheet? God was teaching him in that way what the flood meant in view of bringing in His own thoughts in another order of man.

SMcC You mean the way that the whole scene was cleansed and purified by that action of God.

WC Peter would start with that in his ministry, having in mind to secure men, completely free from the world that had been judged by God so fully, by the sweeping away of the whole scene.

SMcC Yes. And it is important that we should see the place that the blood has, too, because we must not forget the blood. The blood brings in the judicial side, and the thought of expiation and has to do with acts of sin, which have not been met lightly, for the meeting of the guilt linked with them involved this judicial way which the blood draws to our attention. Any person that has got a light judgment of sin has never, in his soul before God, come to what the blood really means.

GRC So that the blood greatly affects our hearts. Mr. Taylor said, many years ago, that this scripture “not by water only” is an implied reference to the flood, which was water only. God ended the world by water only, and the end of all flesh came before Him, but now it is by water and blood, and the blood retains the person.

SMcC That is very important. Divine love did not come in in relation to the flood, divine love came in in relation to the death of Christ; see 1 John 3: 16; so that we do not have the water only, we have the water and the blood. The blood becomes the great basis on which redemption is effected, the way into the presence of God is thus opened up, and the way by which the heart of God is open to us.

PHH The blood being mentioned, for instance, in the Lord’s supper, is calculated to affect our hearts. We might not think so much about the water, and the death of Christ, but with the blood it is unmistakable, and serves to affect our hearts all the time, every time it is mentioned.

SMcC It does. So that Hebrews, which is dealing with the approach, greatly magnifies the blood before our souls. It is through that holy instrumentality that we draw near: “Having therefore, brethren, boldness for entering into the holy of holies, by the blood of Jesus”, Hebrews 10: 19.

GRC Before we leave the first epistle, could you say another word as to the Spirit, and the stress upon the Spirit in the end of verse 6? It says, “it is the Spirit that bears witness”, that is the first thing brought in as to witness, and then, when it gives the three, it puts the Spirit first.

SMcC I think it is important to see the place that the Spirit has in this matter. The water and the blood have in mind the producing of a state in the saints, in a purified way, and the witness of the Spirit comes in actively in relation to that state. We thus get all the gain of the witness, so that as we come down the chapter, the witness is said to be in ourselves. We do not need, as it were, to go outside of ourselves to get confirmation in that sense, as to where we are in relation to God; we have the witness in ourselves, and the witness in ourselves involves the Spirit. It is because He is the truth, not in one part, not in one division, but the truth in its entirety. The witness has to do with that.

GRC Would you just say a further word as to the meaning of that expression “The Spirit is the truth”?

SMcC I think it involves the Spirit as the truth here in the saints. The Lord is the truth at the right hand of God. He said when here, “I am the way, the truth, and the life”. But the Spirit is the truth now down here, in the saints. It is a great help to see that we are in the presence of the truth in its entirety, in a divine Person, amongst the saints.

WD What bearing has the fact that when the Lord speaks of the coming of the Comforter He speaks of Him as the Spirit of truth?

SMcC I think it helps us to see in regard of what we have here, that safety marks this position, as we recognise the Spirit, in that He is the truth - not in one part of it, or in two parts of it, but the whole truth. And we are in the presence of it in the witness. It says, “it is the Spirit that bears witness, for the Spirit is the truth”. Now the enemy would have us, at times, get occupied with one side of the truth, and perhaps be developed in relation to one side of the truth, whereas the point here is, the truth in its entirety.

CH Is that implied in verse 2 of the second letter?

SMcC There is a remarkable link in verse 2 of the second letter with the Spirit of God, because almost the same expression is used as to the Spirit in John 14 as is used of the truth here. The Lord says in John 14, “I will beg the Father, and he will give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see him nor know him; but ye know him, for he abides with you, and shall be in you”, verses 16, 17. There is a remarkable link with the truth in that way, for it says here “for the truth’s sake which abides in us and shall be with us to eternity”. I think this would greatly help us, because sometimes in conversation, and in what may be said publicly, the truth seems to be regarded as something that perhaps does not matter much how you speak about it, and a kind of an optional and casual way is employed in regard to it. Whereas, the word here is “the Spirit is the truth”. The truth is a great bond of fellowship between the saints.

CH Certain cardinal truths connected with the Spirit have been said, in recent years, to be just Christian liberties, and not to be obligatory; but these epistles show that the truth is obligatory, because it involves the presence of a divine Person here.

SMcC Therefore the truth has a binding influence amongst the saints. Persons sometimes say, ‘Oh, if we only had a presentation of Christ objectively, it would unite us all together’. Well, of course it would - that is another side of the truth; but then, the truth, if it has full authority and power in our souls, also has a binding influence among the saints.

APCL Would it be going too far to think of the Spirit personally as being the truth, not only as seen subjectively in the saints, but what there is in Himself as a divine Person?

SMcC I would like to hear more what is in your mind in that regard.

APCL I was only thinking of the possibility of a time when there was little, perhaps, subjectively in the saints, whereas the matter is there in His Person, do you think, or is that going too far?

SMcC Do you mean the reference “the Spirit is the truth”?

APCL Yes, as to whether one glory of His own Person would be that, that He is the truth. I was only thinking it would emphasise more what you are saying as to the truth being the bond; because it really is what lies in the divine Person who is here. I would like to get clear as to that.

SMcC My own impression of it is that it has a subjective bearing, the Spirit being here in the saints because, whatever may have come into the dispensation in the introduction of failure and ruin and breakdown, there has always been, in the martyrs, and in faithful ones here and there, a certain subjective answer in which the truth has been there, although it is not in a full way in which we have it in the recovery, and in the revival; and as it was in the pristine state of the assembly. But the Spirit is not incarnate, and when the ruin and breakdown came in. He still was here, and the unity of the Spirit still was here. I think it bears on all that.

JTJr He came into the assembly, and He is still here.

SMcC That is it. When the ruin and the breakdown came in, and the Dark Ages came in, the Spirit did not retire into heaven. He remained here, because the assembly in that sense, in principle, goes through intact. It is affecting to think of the Spirit being here all through the Dark Ages.

APCL That is what I was thinking, that if the matter lies with the Spirit, what a resource there is for us.

SMcC Just so.

JTJr To know that He is here in the way that He was when He came.

SMcC He has not changed a bit. And it is not what He is in Deity. “The Spirit is the truth” is not a reference to what He is in Deity, but what He is here in the assembly.

JSE Did not that same principle apply when Christ was here amongst His own? Could we not rightly say that He was amongst them in a condition that they could take account of; and that in that condition He says “I am the way, and the truth,

and the life. No one comes to the Father unless by me”. Does He not, as having gone to heaven, present Himself now, according to the scripture referred to in Ephesians, as the One in whom the truth is? But is not the Spirit here taking the place that Christ had here, as He Himself said, “another Comforter”, and is not John, in this epistle, enlarging on that in view of this spiritual unity that we are concerned about?

SMcC I think so. Now that the Lord has gone to the right hand of God, the truth in all its fulness is seen in Him objectively there, but it is now in this passage linked with the Spirit here in the assembly, that He is the truth. It helps to see if we except the scripture in Jeremiah (which has a characteristic, or relative reference), that God is said to be true but never said to be “the truth”. But the Persons that are said to be the truth are the Persons in the mediatorial position. The Mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ on high, and what He was down here, and then the Spirit here in the assembly.

PL Is it because the truth is not presented absolutely, but it is presented relatively as coming within our range in divine Persons in the economy?

SMcC Truth involves comparison and stands over against error in that sense being the expression of what God is, but viewed in His essential existence, God does not express Himself. He is what He is; He cannot be compared with anything, as J.N.D. said. Scripture says, “God is love”, which is an absolute reference.

RW The presence of the Spirit as the truth is seen in the meeting of evil in Acts 5.

SMcC Yes. And what is to be noted in this section is that the truth is personified. The truth will make way for itself, like the ark in the land of the Philistines. The power of God is linked with it, bringing down things, the truth does that.

JSE Do we need to understand, that both in the case of Jesus, and in the case of the Spirit, they are Each, in turn, said to be the truth, but, as in a circle of holy affinity with their feelings? Does not this matter of the water, if applied, bring us more into correspondence with what is proper to that circle?

SMcC That is the whole point in the water, that we should be delivered from the world, and the system of things in it, and what is linked with man, and his state, and be linked up with a system of things that is marked by what is purified, and is in affinity with the Spirit of God. The state is a result of the work of Christ and the Spirit being here in this way.

JSE Does that make the allusion to “yourselves” in the second epistle more understandable by us? Is “yourselves” a term which denotes the circle of affinity with the Spirit here as the truth?

SMcC Just so.

AJG So that the Spirit as the truth requires, for its expression, saints in moral accord with Himself?

SMcC I think it is very important to see that. We do not thus talk over these matters as just platitudes and things that entertain our minds, but they have in view a corresponding state being produced in us, a state that is marked by uprightness, honesty and transparency, that is the fruit of the water aspect of the death of Christ applied in the power of the Spirit.

RGB Do the distinctive references to walking bear on that, particularly the walking in the truth, and walking according to His commandments?

SMcC That is very important, because we might say, Well, John is getting very detailed and very extreme; he says that if a man goes forward, and abides not in the doctrine of Christ and perhaps has got a new development in mind, and is opening up what might be called some fresh feature of the truth,

that is in advance of Christianity, the sisters should hear this, and pay attention to it. John says to the elect lady, “If any one come to you and bring not this doctrine”, notice the word ‘doctrine’, the teaching, “do not receive him into the house, and greet him not; for he who greets him partakes in his wicked works”. We might say, Well, could we not say ‘Good day’ to him, or ‘Good afternoon’? ‘No’, John says if you do that, you partake in his wicked works. Now this is the holy Scriptures, this is what the scripture says, and the Spirit of God inspires the record.

JGM How does the Lord’s word in John 17 bear upon this matter, when He says, “Sanctify them by the truth: thy word is truth”?

SMcC Well, there is a link with it in that the truth becomes the instrument or agency, in the power of the Spirit, by which we become set apart from this world. The truth there is that Christ is in glory, the Object of the affections of His people. And if the Object of our affections is there, how could we get absorbed with things here? How could we get enmeshed in associations here? It has got a delivering effect.

AJG In this second epistle of John, and in the third, we get the expression “Walking in truth”, and then, “walking in the truth”. Do you draw any distinction between those two?

SMcC I think there is; could you say something to help us on it, as to what is in your mind?

AJG I was just seeking to get it clarified. We have “walking in truth” in verse 4 of the second epistle, and “thou walkest in truth” in verse 3 of the third, and then “I hear of my children walking in the truth” in verse 4 of the third.

SMcC Is not the one a question of what is characteristic, and affects us subjectively and in practice, and the other - walking in the truth - involves what governs and controls our outlook, our thoughts? You get, for instance, in verse 1, “The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth”, It is the character of the love. Now this is very important, because we should have no natural likings for one another, there should not be those that we like better than others, we are not to be respecters of persons. Then if we love in the truth, it is like another link with Paul’s ministry in Colossians, “love in the Spirit”; that is, we are not governed by one another according to what we are naturally.

HW Is there any link, or any connection, between the thought of the truth, and “our faith”, or “the faith once delivered to the saints”, that Jude speaks of?

SMcC I think there is a link in that sense. We walk in the truth, and the truth has come out. I mean, we do not expect exactly that there will be fresh revelations of the truth in these meetings, in the sense in which we are now speaking of it. The truth has all been laid out, what we are seeking to get at is what has been laid out, and what the Lord is seeking to help us to get into. The water is necessary for that, and the Spirit is necessary for that.

HW Would that be encompassed, by the thought of “our faith”, which gets victory over the world?

SMcC Well, there you have a link.

GCH I understand the expression “for the Spirit is the truth” is a reciprocal statement.

SMcC Yes, it can be reversed, so that the truth is the Spirit. That is very important, in connection with the recognition of it, for “the Spirit bears witness”, implies the assembly. He is not exactly bearing witness to the angels, it is not that He is in heaven at this point, bearing witness, and this is the value of the New Translation, but it is the Spirit that bears witness here for the Spirit is the truth, or the truth is the Spirit.

CH In your reference a little earlier, to verses 9 and 10 in the second letter, you spoke about the importance of not receiving those who abide not in the doctrine; if the truth and the teaching connected with the truth becomes the bond of fellowship, are we to understand that it will increasingly become the test of fellowship?

SMcC It will. Because it is the truth that abides in us and shall be with us to eternity. It is not special friendships, special leanings, special likes and dislikes; it is the truth that abides in us and shall be with us to eternity. And the truth will become increasingly the bond. But we should see in that way how it is bound up with the two holy Persons in the mediatorial position, the Lord Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Spirit here in the assembly. So that we should not speak carelessly, or lightly in regard to the truth, as if something was being made an issue that does not mean much. We may be assaulting, or attacking, a divine Person.

CMM Would you say a word about “Jesus Christ coming in flesh”? In the first epistle it says “Come in flesh”. I was wondering as to the word ‘coming’. Could it be connected with Hebrews 10, “Wherefore coming in to the world he says ...”?

SMcC “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, they who do not confess Jesus Christ coming ...” It is not the chronological side, but I understand the reference to the “coming” to imply that it is the form and character seen in the action of this Person. No other Person could do this. I mean, no other man could do this; it could only be said of One who was a divine Person. In the first epistle “Jesus Christ come in flesh” is a statement of actual fact that He came into that condition of humanity.

HB Will you say a word as to “In him was life and the life was the light of men”? Does that bear upon what you are saying? If we do not walk in the light, we are not practising the truth; “He that practises the truth comes to the light”, John 3: 21.

SMcC Well, it is very important, because it bears on the state that the water would produce. Things are out in the open, transparent, no opaqueness. God is in the light, why should we not be in the light? Why should I have anything that I do not want the brethren to know? Why should everything not be laid open? Why should there be any dark parts, dark spots that I do not want to disclose? If God is in the light, we are to walk in the light as He is in the light, and have fellowship with one another. And the water would help us as to that.

JPH Would Demetrius be one who was walking in the light?

SMcC I think he was. It says of him, that he “has witness borne to him by all, and by the truth itself”. You would never have any difficulty about Demetrius. Wherever he went among the brethren, he had “witness borne to him by all”. You might say universally. Demetrius would be known, and then it says “and by the truth itself”. What a fine reference to any person!

JPH Was he an exemplar in that way of all the truth that he had been taught?

SMcC I think he was. The Lord said “He that practises the truth comes to the light, that his works may be manifested, that they have been wrought in God”, John 3: 21. Demetrius was that. If we are not doing the truth, we will be afraid of the light; none of us wants to be afraid of the light, and it is important that every one of us should be in the light as God is in the light.

PHH Do you think that is illustrated in some of the men around David, like Joab, who passed muster in a public way, yet when the test came, it showed that they were dark, and not walking in the truth? So it led to something sectional.

SMcC It is very important to see that, because one thing that marks the antichristian world and antichristian principles is deception. That is, in the system around us, we have the mysterious habiliments and dress; it is all deceiving, and when the enemy has been defeated in the open battlefield, he resorts to deception. It may be even through innuendos, oblique hints, or covert allusive statements, that inject virus into the blood-stream, and bring about a state of innocuousness amongst the saints, so that the truth loses its sting and power in their conscience.

PHH Here the deception you speak of is connected with antichrist, it says, “This is the deceiver and the antichrist”. That shows the origin of it.

SMcC That is it. And John, in his writings, in the epistles, would remind us that there are many antichrists, and I have to see to that in my heart. Every one of us has to see to this feature of what is antichristian, because if any allowance is made for it, we shall get what we have in the history in 2 Samuel, Solomon and David displaced, and Absalom in power.

MHT Do we see the contrast between those that the elect lady was warned not to receive into the house, in the second epistle and those whom we ought to receive in the third epistle? It says “receive such, that we may be fellow workers with the truth”.

SMcC That is good. The second letter stresses those that we are not to receive, but the third letter stresses those that we are to receive. It is important therefore to see Demetrius in that light, as one who has witness borne to him by all, and by the truth itself.