SPIRITUAL UNITY IN THE MINISTRY OF JOHN (3)

SPIRITUAL UNITY IN THE MINISTRY OF JOHN (3)

1 John 1: 1 - 7; John 4: 31 - 38; John 6: 66 - 71

SMcC The feature of our subject which we are considering together, namely spiritual unity in the ministry of John, will bear this morning on the ministry and the ministers, and also on the saints, too, as affected by the ministry and the ministers. In all these passages the subject of the ministers and the ministry comes up, and what we may be helped to see is how this thought of eternal life appears, in this relation in all the passages that we have read, and I suppose one of the thoughts in mind in regard to what we are now considering would be to see that it is essential that the thought of quality should be maintained. Being what we are, in the human condition that we are in, as the great thoughts of God come into our minds and into our hearts, they may become attenuated in our appreciation of them. It is not that the truth itself becomes attenuated, but in our apprehension and appreciation of it, and in result, the quality is lowered. The dignity of the verses read in John’s first epistle is very remarkable; we have the fellowship of the Father and the Son, and the fellowship of the apostles, and the distinctive plane and platform on which they stood with the Father and the Son; and then our fellowship with them, through what is reported in the power of the Spirit coming to us, and finally our fellowship with one another. It all shows how this thought of spiritual unity is in mind in the promulgation of the testimony which the verses we have read set out. Then in John 4, we have the harvest, and the sower and the reaper, the emphasis being on the “together”, and how the sower and the reaper are bound up together, and how the Lord, perhaps, would keep us humble, and lowly in what He says, in that we have entered into the labours of others. The Lord goes a long way up the stream of time in referring to the labours that had gone before, but it is all one, in the divine mind and outlook, and we come into it in that light. So that we are to be reminded in that sense of what the Lord says, “I have sent you to reap that on which ye have not laboured; others have laboured, and ye have entered into their labours”. That may be carried down morally and spiritually, even to the days of the revival, for that is our position today; we have entered into the labours of others, and the great exercise would be, at least in oneself and I suppose in all of us, that the quality might be maintained in the assembly. Then lastly in John 6 we see the way the Lord turns to the twelve and challenges those that remain. There were those that had gone away, but there are those that are left, and the Lord challenges the twelve as to their position in relation to the truth. And we get that word of Peter, “Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal; and we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God”. Then there is the Lord’s scathing reference to Judas, as if we are early acquainted in John’s gospel as to the element seen in Judas, where it springs from, so that we should be alive to it, and aware of it, in view of the preservation of the spiritual unity that we are considering. The thought of quality in these verses in John’s first epistle is very important.

JTJr The “we” that comes in the first epistle would be the apostles, I suppose, and that they were united in what they were saying.

SMcC That would be a very important matter with ourselves, as the principle comes down. We see what is distinctive in that way, to the apostles, but it would have a reflex right down to the assembly.

JTJr So that we get a pattern in the way the Lord set up things in the apostles, which we would not assume to be in our day, in the same sense, but the spirit of it is what the Lord has set up; it should be united.

SMcC It is the important feature which the Lord would stress over against what the enemy is doing in the mystery of iniquity, in seeking to unite that which really displaces the doctrine of the Christ. The doctrine of the Christ involves the revelation of God coming out in a ministry of Christ in the ministry of the apostles.

AJG So that the early believers persevered in the teaching and fellowship of the apostles. Would that ensure unity, and the quality that you spoke of?

SMcC It would. And the Spirit has come, and remains here; He has not left the position, despite what has come into the dispensation. He came in Acts 2, and He remains all the way through the dispensation, and His great end is that that quality should be maintained in the assembly, in the saints.

TJG Do we get the idea of quality in verse 1, seen in the intimate and substantial communion with the Lord Jesus Himself?

SMcC We are reminded in these verses of eternal life in testimony here, and the Lord’s place in manhood, and of that wonderful plane of things seen in the Father and the Son where eternal life was witnessed to in such a unique and remarkable way. Think of the level of it, the dignity of it, the quality of it! Then, we are to see it work down to the matter of the apostles, because, as John says later, it is not only what was true in Christ, but what is true in us. The same quality is to go through yet, keeping in mind what is unique in relation to the Father and the Son, and to the apostolic position.

AJG So that in John 17 the Lord says, speaking to His Father, “the words”, that is the divine communications, “which thou hast given me I have given them, and they have received them”. Does that show the distinctiveness of the fellowship that the apostles enjoyed, that the communications which the Lord was constantly receiving from His Father, He passed on to them?

SMcC I am sure it does, I had thought earlier to read in Revelation 21, to see how the twelve apostles of the Lamb stand out in the twelve foundations of the city, but our time is limited and we have quite a few scriptures on hand. We are not, however, to forget, nor to lose sight of, how the dispensation has been founded in relation to the uniqueness of their position, and their ministry.

CMM Would Peter standing up with the eleven, in Acts 2, give character to this principle from the very start?

SMcC It would. There we see the authority that enters into the apostolic teaching and doctrine. Peter was fully supported by the eleven; there was no thought of any subverting of what Peter was saying. He stands up with the eleven; he was fully with the eleven, and the eleven were fully with him.

HC We have in Ephesians 2 what is built upon “the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the corner stone”. Is that a reference to the quality you are speaking of?

SMcC Yes, it would point to that, because the apostles have a peculiar place in the foundation. Paul comes in later in his own distinctive setting in regard to the heavenly side, but the twelve stand out in these verses in the uniqueness of their part in the fellowship that they had with the Father and the Son.

GRC Does the Lord’s first request for unity in John 17: 11 bear on this, “Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one as we”? Does not that refer to the apostles, and the unities that follow among the saints generally would depend on that coming first?

SMcC Exactly. There are three features of unity as we know, that stand out in John 17, and that first one particularly sets out the unity linked with the apostolic position.

GRC Is it not a marvellous thing that the dispensation began with twelve men of whom there is no record of any disunity or friction?

SMcC It is a very remarkable thing. And the fact that that number is so expanded on our view, in the assembly and the holy city, would show what a unified result there is in public testimony in the vessel, the city.

WSS Is it important for us to see that the spiritual unity, and the quality that accompanies it, actually existed in the early days described in the Acts of the Apostles.

SMcC The early days of the Acts help us to see the quality that there was amongst the saints, and our concern should be that that quality should not deteriorate in us, as coming in at the end. While we know there is weakness publicly and a good deal that brings sorrow to our minds and hearts as to the position publicly, we always remember that the Spirit of God has never left the position. He is still here, and the quality that He brought in, and that the dispensation was inaugurated in relation to, is to be sustained through to the end. Therefore it becomes a challenge, I think to all of us, as to whether it is being maintained, or whether there is deterioration with us.

PHH Is that what is in mind in the word ‘report’, (verse 3), “that which we have seen and heard we report to you”? The note says “’Bring back the report of’, from something we have learnt”, Does that guarantee, so to speak, along with the Spirit’s presence, that there is no deterioration?

SMcC Just so. The Spirit of God, while not formally referred to in this section, underlies the whole matter as it is communicated to others. As the report comes down, the Spirit of God is in it, and thus the pure, and right strain in quality is maintained.

AJG Does the message in verse 5 come in with a view to preserving the quality, “that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all”?

SMcC I thought so. And we have the reference to the blood of Christ in this particular relation, as cleansing us from all sin. These two great thoughts are brought in, so that we might be saved from the allowance of anything, whether it be darkness or sin, that in its operation with us, would detract from the quality that the Spirit of God would maintain right through to the end.

JMcK Do we have to go back to the relations between the Father and the Son for the character of it? I was thinking of the way it was presented, “the eternal life which was with the Father”. Is that the character and quality flowing from an understanding of that life?

SMcC I think it is. How precious it is to think of the eternal life that is witnessed to in that environment! What eternal life was to the Father, in the fulness of manhood, seen in Jesus, the Son, in humanity here! What it was to the Father; the quality of it! We have the life that was in God’s purpose for men, coming on to our view, in the fulness of Christ’s manhood. Although it was there from the time of infancy, the scripture particularly refers to the manifestation of it, in relation to the fulness of manhood seen in Jesus - “a glory as of an only-begotten with a father”. Our souls are to be affected by that.

JOTD Does the expression in verse 4, “These things write we to you that your joy may be full” indicate the provision with the apostles and the Spirit, for the saints to be in the fulness of this throughout the dispensation?

SMcC It is a great matter that things should be full with us. The enemy wants to hinder this arrival at what is full. You will remember that yesterday reference was made in the epistle to “full wages”. John says to the elect lady, “See to yourselves, that we may not lose what we have wrought, but may receive full wages”. And here we have full joy in mind. As things come down, in the report, and then the message, there is to be no deterioration; the saints should reach full joy. And this raises a question in regard to the ministry and to the ministers as to whether things are rightly sustained if the saints are to come into full joy.

Ques Would the contrast to this be seen in the report of the spies in Numbers 13?

SMcC You mean in the unbelieving ones, but the quality of it was maintained in Caleb and Joshua. That is what we want to get our eye on. It may not have been maintained in all, but the point is to see where it is maintained.

ECL Do you think that Paul gives us an example of what you are saying when he went up to Jerusalem to lay before those there what he had? He says in Galatians 2, “lest in any way I run or had run in vain”. He is comparing, so to speak, what he had, and whether it linked on with the apostles at Jerusalem.

SMcC I think it is very interesting to see that line in Paul, and how he was concerned that things should not deteriorate with him. He was very careful even about his own body, lest he should become a castaway, lest the truth should be discredited in that way. One is specially thinking of the practical bearing of all this amongst us; there are a lot of meetings, a lot of fellowship meetings, and three-day meetings; and there are these meetings here. Well, it is very challenging to us, at least it is to oneself, as to whether quality is to be maintained, by the Spirit, so that there is no attenuation, no weakening in result, in relation to the truth.

PHH Does that open the question about the report, that which we have seen and heard? Is it some kind of independency of thought or view which brings in this deterioration - not maintaining the level of what is seen and heard?

SMcC I think it is. I am sure, I speak from my own side, that those of us that have served, we may go down the list, and see all that we are committed to, and what we have in mind to do; but are we concerned that the quality linked with these verses should be carried through? It is important that it should be, if the saints are to be rightly affected in regard to spiritual unity.

MAW Is that what Peter is concerned about in Acts 1, in the kind of man that would be needed to fill the twelfth place?

SMcC Look what care there was, as to the selection, especially as we think of what had transpired in relation to Judas, who had defected so badly. The Lord indicates early in John’s gospel the quality in Judas, that he was a devil. Well, that is a very strong statement, but the Lord is indicating the kind of quality that is in Judas. And the disciples were very concerned in the selection of one to take his place, that there should be the right kind of quality in the minister.

GP Is this matter of quality guarded by Paul in 2 Corinthians 1, when he says “the Son of God, Jesus Christ, he who has been preached by us among you (by me and Silvanus, and Timotheus)”? He does not only leave it at “us”, but names the persons.

SMcC I think that is very helpful at this juncture, because it was over against the abundance of gift and ministry that there was in Corinth. We know how in the world, and with the leaders in Corinth, things became attenuated, the truth was watered down and weakened, through a false ministry, in which the devil was finding a right of way. But Paul projects on to their view the quality of the ministry in persons known and named, and the unity that marked them - Paul, Silvanus and Timotheus.

MHT In the opening of the Acts, we have the reference to Peter and John going up together to the temple, and then the word, “Look on us”, and then “Silver and gold I have not; but what I have, this give I to thee”, And then we have the man holding Peter and John.

SMcC That brings up the matter of results. What are the results? Peter and John were seen in such brotherly relations; they were so unified, they could say “Look on us”. There was no dark spot with them, no disuniting influence - “Look on us”. And we see the result. They were not depending upon, or building up on reputation. The amount of meetings that we take, or the amount of articles that we may write, or have published in the monthlies in themselves do not ensure quality. If the quality is not in the person, certainly the magazines will not impart the quality. It is important that the quality should be maintained with those of us who serve.

WSS In verse 1 of the epistle it says “That which we have contemplated”. Would that not bring them into accord with the Father in His thoughts of His beloved Son? And would not that give quality to their service?

SMcC I am sure it would. Therefore it behoves us to consider what was referred to in verse 5, that is, a message is how things are coming to us, and coming down to us, “that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all”. Well, that searches me. Is there any darkness in me? There is no darkness in God, but is there any darkness in me that would hinder the quality of the ministry?

WSS Hinder our contemplation of all that has shone forth in the Person of our Lord Jesus Christ.

SMcC That is it. Is there anything that might darken the revelation of God in the apprehension of it in our souls as we might say, speaking broadly?

GRC So that the superlative quality lies in the fact that the Word has become flesh, a divine Person has set it out. Would you say a word in that connection as to the meaning of the beginning here, “that which was from the beginning”?

SMcC I think he is alluding to what has come in in relation to Christ, His coming into manhood. The neuter word ‘that’ refers to the substantial character of that which appeared in this world, as Christ came on to the scene in manhood. “The beginning” thus refers to what we have in the gospels - Christ in manhood.

JTJr The expanse that you referred to last night comes in in the beginning of Scripture.

SMcC It does, and as time works out we see how God’s original thought as to the expanse has been tampered with, so that the enemy comes into it, and persons under his influence come into it. Ultimately all that will be met; but I think, as perhaps you would think too, that the question would be raised with all of us as to how we are in it.

JTJr I would think, therefore, the conflict enters into the expanse, because the references you made last night fit in with what we have got here, in relation to the apostles. Actually the apostles were in the expanse, and they were to set out the authoritative side of things, which of course, as you say, was tampered with. It was tampered with in the Lord’s life even, but also it came in later, in the apostles’ own history.

SMcC I am sure we should note carefully this matter in these verses as to “in him is no darkness at all”, and “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie” - John is very specific, and very defined in what he says - “and do not practise the truth. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin”. We are to be free from darkness, and we are to be free from sin.

GRC Is that what is in mind in the reference to the expanse? Do you mean that if we walk in the light as He is in the light, it is like the greater light set in the heavens, on the fourth day typically pointing to God and light as to Him in full expression?

SMcC That is what I thought. The expanse contains the ruling class according to God, but then, how did Hymenaeus and Philetus get there? How did Jannes and Jambres get there? That shows how the divine thought has been entrenched upon by evil, wicked men, who have erred as to the truth.

JM Paul says in 2 Corinthians 4: 2, “But we have rejected the hidden things of shame, not walking in deceit, nor falsifying the word of God, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every conscience of men before God”. Does that bear on what you are saying?

SMcC I understand that is the idea of the expanse. That bears on the expanse, the manifestation, where the ruling class will be manifested and displayed. The world to come will be a great expression of that. So that it is important that we get help from God, beginning with ourselves, every one of us, to reject the hidden things of shame, to reject the features of darkness that the enemy would bring into our souls.

CJHD Ezekiel, in chapter 1, in a dark day, sees the expanse as the look of the terrible crystal. Would that bear on the need of absolute purity in regard of the expanse?

SMcC It would. So that we have the allusion to the blood of Jesus Christ, and then, in the part that was not read, to the advocacy of Christ. Surely it is to touch our affections, and to touch our souls, that such divine provision has been made, that the quality of the life that has been witnessed to in the humanity of Jesus, and carried down through the apostles, should be maintained in us, free from the darkening influences that the enemy operates by and through.

TJG Would you say something on the word ‘cleanseth’ in this connection, having in mind that it is blood, and not water?

SMcC Well, it is the value and efficacy of the blood here, not the water. Because, what is being stressed in the first chapter of the epistle of John, is objective testimony; we have reports, messages, it is objective testimony presented for faith, and the blood is therefore stressed here. The water has to do with our state, and the subjective side, but the blood has to do with the objective side.

WMcK Would this word “in him” have an inward bearing on us? That is, “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all”.

SMcC Well, it is to reflect on us in that way, as to whether there is any darkness in us; it is a solemn thing if darkness is allowed in us. If it is not judged, if the efficacy of the blood of Christ is not appreciated, or if the advocacy of Christ is not made way for and is not resultful in our souls, the darkness may deepen, as it generally does. One of the most distressing things is to see, as some of us have seen in other parts of the world, how the darkness deepens in those that go out of fellowship, and leave the truth. The darkness deepens in their souls.

WMcK Would the vital matter therefore be our inward links with the Spirit, the Person who is in us, to maintain this feature?

SMcC I think it is important, as we have said, that while the Spirit is not alluded to formally. He underlies this matter of how we are to be sustained in regard to what is set before us in testimony in these verses.

RGB Are we to be encouraged in the sense that the divine system of help is fully equal to the maintenance of the divine standard? I was thinking of the blood of Christ, and the advocacy of Christ and the presence of the Spirit.

SMcC It touches you to think of the much provision that has been made that we might be free, and clear of all that would hinder our being in the gain of what has come down to us.

WC Would there be the thought in the last Psalm, “Praise him in the firmament” or ‘expanse’ as the note says, “of his power”? God triumphs and secures, at the end, what is in keeping with His own thoughts in the expanse. He gets the full answer in praise and worship.

SMcC It is important that we have that in our souls, that while the enemy has invaded the expanse, it will eventually be cleared, and God will show publicly the victory that has been won.

PHH Would the expression used by Paul in 2 Timothy 2: 2, help in this, “the things thou hast heard of me in the presence of many witnesses, these entrust to faithful men, such as shall be competent to instruct others also”? Would that ensure that the pure line of quality comes right down to our own time, when the apostles have gone? We still have the faithful men.

SMcC That is what Paul has in mind. Things are to be continued and the truth is to be handed down without attenuation, without weakening, right through to the end of the dispensation. There is no thought of reduction in the quality.

AEM I would like to ask you a question, although it may take us back a bit. We got away from a suggestion that Mr. Taylor ministered some years ago, not to take fellowship meetings at a long date. We have some brothers who enter into engagements nine months ahead. What do you say about that?

SMcC Perhaps the passage in John 4 will now help us. The Lord brings in the matter of time, “Do not ye say, that there are yet four months and the harvest comes?” The Lord brings in the period of four months, as to the harvest. We might liken it to what we are doing, and what we are engaging in, in view of results among the brethren, and the Lord says, “Behold, I say to you, Lift up your eyes and behold the fields, for they are already white to harvest”. I should think we have got a principle in what the Lord says here, that would regulate us as to our service in view of the maintenance of quality. If we commit ourselves to too much, and too far ahead, well, how do we know that we shall be sustained in it?

AEM Have the brethren got a part in this matter?

SMcC They have. Both the ministers, and those ministered to enter into the matter, I think, as to what we are committed to, and what is taken on, I am sure it is important. In moving around in different parts, brethren have said in regard to this matter, Well, if we do not go that far ahead, we will not get some of the more prominent brothers. Well, I have said to them to do without them at the moment, I am not seeking to detract from those that are serving in a distinctive way, but if servants are booked up so far ahead, the Lord may be indicating to us that there is someone nearer by, someone near at hand, like the little boy in John 6. The Lord knew what He would do.

MPS Might I ask which way round it should be approached by us? Do we arrange a meeting, and desire to find a brother to serve, or is the exercise to have a particular brother among us, and then arrange a meeting?

SMcC Well, the desire comes up with the brethren to have a gathering of the saints to make way for the truth, and to promote the idea of fellowship. That would be a basic idea; then the great thing would be as to what the Lord has in mind, what is needed. Therefore the brethren would be cast upon the Lord, and upon the Spirit too, as to direction for who may be available, and whom the Lord would send. It is not just a person who has got a desire to come, but a person that the Lord would send. And I would think that there would be a converging in the exercises of the brethren, and in the commission of the Lord, if that were present.

ACSP When Mr. Taylor raised this matter at Bristol some years ago, did he not draw a big distinction between the need to arrange a meeting, possibly because a hall had to be booked, and the need to ask a servant too far ahead?

SMcC Therefore there would be a difference in regard to three-day meetings of this character, where a hall has to be arranged for, and many arrangements have to be made in regard to the comfort and accommodation of the brethren. Wisdom would work out in taking all that into account. But booking up for nine months, or twelve months for fellowship meetings is more than I can understand. Personally, I am not at all free to do it. I think it engenders and develops a competitive spirit among the brethren, as to whom they will have, and whom they will get,

instead of being more subject to the Lord, as to whom He would send.

AH Would what you are remarking have its bearing on engagements to preach the gospel?

SMcC I should think the brethren, in considering over these matters, would have wisdom. I do not think that any of the services should be tied up in such a way that we are not ready to make room for whom the Lord may send at any time. We may have things so tied up in engagements, and the Lord may send a servant, and he may have to sit by. Although he is commissioned to go to that locality, he may have to sit by because of an arrangement that has been made long before.

GRC Is not that a matter that we might think about - flexibility? If arrangements are made, they should be truly held as provisional, and subject to the Lord’s will, so that on both sides there is a readiness to release the matter.

SMcC I think that is right. There should be the element of flexibility in making room for others so that if a person has been asked to serve, and another comes along, and has gift or ability, surely we would make room for such if it was felt that he was sent by the Lord.

GRC I was thinking of Paul’s outlook in Romans 15, he has got a long programme before him, he says, “Now I go to Jerusalem, ministering to the saints”, but prior to that he says that he hopes to come to Rome on his way to Spain. So that he has got a long programme before him, but we do not read that he ever got to Spain, he was evidently subject to the Lord’s will, and flexible. I wondered if it is allowable to have a programme in that sense, subject to God’s will, that is truly flexible.

SMcC In the sense in which Paul alludes to it. And in the sense in which you are coming to America, the brethren are looking forward to that, and meetings have been arranged for; we are not referring to that. But what Paul is alluding to there is that he has certain places in mind, but as far as we can see, there was no definite tying up of meetings in that arrangement. It is just as we might say, Well, we have Germany, or France in mind to visit. It is flexible as to what the Lord has in mind, do you not think?

GRC Yes, I think if that was held it would help us a lot, because sometimes when a commitment is made provisionally by a brother, the brethren do not like it much if he says later that he does not feel free to carry it out.

SMcC We must be subject to the Lord’s commission, to the Lord’s sending. If indication comes about that the Lord has not sent you, well, we are to take account of that, but a servant would not be careless as to what he is committed to. He would not go back on it unless serious circumstances warranted it. Paul speaks in 1 Thessalonians of desiring to come to them but Satan hindered them. That would be another matter.

RTH It says in Mark 3: 14, “And he appointed twelve that they might be with him and that he might send them ...”.

PL What about the three Lord’s days at Thessalonica? Should not liberty be afforded for a brother to continue for that period if he finds confirmation as he proceeds? Sometimes a brother is invited immediately afterwards, making it impossible to carry out that period.

SMcC It is important that we should make room for Paul’s principle in that way; it was his custom apparently, and we would be governed, in some measure, by Paul’s custom in that sense.

AH You raised a very interesting matter a moment ago, as to being sent. We answer pretty much to “Come and he comes”. But the man said to another “Go and he goes”. Do you think we are sufficiently sensitive as to this matter of that word?

SMcC I think we should be more sensitive as to being sent, that we do not have to wait on an invitation to go to a place. We may get invitations from places, and they are to be valued in that sense, but then, it may not be the Lord’s mind at all to send you to that place. The Lord may send you to a place where you have not got an invitation. Why would you hold back from that? We are to be governed by commission in that sense.

CMM Could you say a little more about the little boy here? There seem to be peculiar difficulties in the British Isles, and I have wondered whether, where the saints discern quality developing, room should not be made for younger men?

SMcC I think it is important that we should recognise what is amongst us, and what the Lord is doing. We have the Spirit, and the Lord has given us wisdom, and we should recognise gift wherever it appears, whatever a person’s years may be. If there are definite indications of gift there, let us commit ourselves to it, and make room for it.

WMcK In the passage quoted from Romans 15. Paul says “that my ministry which I have for Jerusalem” - he had a sense of a commission, but would you say he had something from the Lord for that place? Should not the servants seek to have something like that, too, in their movements?

SMcC Just so, but keeping in mind the day of brokenness in which we are, because it is important that we should not take too high ground. It is important that we should see the unofficial character of things that we are in, and not build up a reputation along human and natural lines. The Lord would sober us here, when He says, verse 38, “I have sent you to reap that on which ye have not laboured: others have laboured, and ye have entered into their labours”. Well, where does that leave us? The Lord is not making too much of us in this matter, and we have to keep that in mind. Especially that the quality should be maintained in the reaping, and gathering fruit unto life eternal; we must see that things do not degenerate, or become attenuated.

HW Things did not degenerate with Philip, either in desert conditions, or at Azotus?

SMcC No, they did not. One has been thinking a little of late in regard to doing what one’s hand finds to do, because I suppose that is the principle on which most of us go. We cannot speak much about anything beyond that, and this question comes up as to whether we are sufficiently in touch with the Spirit, in communion with the Spirit. The Spirit brought all the gifts with Him at Pentecost, and they have come from an ascended Christ, but they are all under the hand of the Spirit, and the Spirit has sovereignty in His distributions in that relation. If therefore we were more in communion with Him, then perhaps we might get indications as to where we should go that we have not thought of before.

PL “And as they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, Separate me now Barnabas and Saul”, Acts 13: 2.

SMcC Showing how important it is to recognise the Spirit in authority in the matter of distributions, and in the work that has to be done.

FGS Does Haggai set out the matter? He speaks of himself as “Jehovah’s messenger, in Jehovah’s message”.

SMcC It is important that we should be that. We are not concerned about our reputations or the amount of meetings that we take, or whether we take three-day meetings or not, because after all, the platform here does not make the man. The man is the man; he is what he is by being divinely made. We want to see that, and therefore be concerned as to the quality, I remember, in another part of the world, a sister was introduced to a brother years ago, and she did not recognise him, and he said, ‘Don’t you know me? I write in the monthly magazines!’ Well, that is very humbling if we depend on the monthly magazines, with due respect to the magazines which we value and our brothers’ services in them, it is very poor. We are to be concerned as to this quality that life eternal brings in.

JSE Is there some significance in pursuance of that, in that Andrew figures more largely in John, where there is nothing official, than he does where things are official?

SMcC That is very interesting. Say something more about it.

JSE It was he who introduced the little boy, and the Lord seemed to take the matter on, and, as Mr. Taylor pointed out many years ago, it is not said in that chapter that He made use of the disciples in the distribution, He did it Himself. There are three actual incidents in the gospel, where Andrew shines in an unofficial way, and something is secured positively for the pleasure of Christ through him.

SMcC Mr. Taylor made a remark years ago which one closely observed at the time, and it affected one: he referred to the fact that we should be dexterous enough to avoid what is official. We should employ dexterity in avoiding what is official, lest we should build up a reputation that may some day crash.

APCL Would verse 34 preface what you have been saying, “My food is that I should do the will of him that has sent me, and that I should finish his work”?

SMcC Very good, I was going to refer to that earlier, and I am glad you have brought it in, because, where were they? Look at the important work that was going on and was being done. Where were they? They were in the city about loaves. Well, that was a low level to be on, and they wonder about the Lord when they come back, and He says, “I have food to eat which ye do not know”, and then “my food is that I should do the will of him that has sent me, and that I should finish his work”. I think we want to be affected by that and see how our constitutions are built up, and what we are feeding on, in the matters of ministry.

JTJr Would that verse, verse 34, stress the point that has been before us? “That I should do the will of him that has sent me”. I think there is more in the thought of being sent than there is in the thought of invitation.

SMcC I think so too myself. One is more concerned about the matter of being sent than the number of invitations that are received. Because it casts you back on the Lord, and upon the Spirit, as to what the Lord has in mind, in regard to ministry and service among the saints.

APCL So that service is never regarded as an object in itself. In Ephesians 4 it is “until we all arrive”.

SMcC That is very important; it is not an object in itself. If ministry becomes an object in itself, it will exalt the servant and the result is that there will be disaster - disaster among the saints, and disaster with the servant.

RWS So while it is useful to know who is serving in different parts of the world, and we have a few of the meetings listed, is there not a danger that that might bring in the thought of the clergy and the laity?

SMcC We want to be dexterous, as we have referred to it, in avoiding what is official, and in what would have anything for the flesh to make a little of, in ourselves. If we know the plague of our own hearts, we know the constant need day by day for the water aspect of the death of Christ. And the circumcision, too, it is complete death to the flesh, and all that marks it, as the death of Christ is applied in the power of the Spirit. That is a daily matter.

ECM Would 1 Corinthians 3: 7 and 8 bear on this. Paul says, “So that neither the planter is anything, nor the waterer; but God the giver of the increase. But the planter and the waterer are one”?

SMcC The references in Corinthians to the planter and the waterer are very interesting, and the same here with the sower and the reaper. We might want to be planters, but that is a matter of divine commission. I may have to be content with watering; Apollos was content with watering, he was quite prepared to water what Paul planted, showing the wonderful unity in the ministry. So it says “that both he that sows and he that reaps may rejoice together”. An occasion like this thus provides what is pleasing to heaven, in that the saints, and those that serve among them, are seen together in an unjealous way, helping one another; because that is the idea of these meetings, as we have them now in the absence of the distinctive leadership such as we so greatly enjoyed in the years that are past. It is a time, at the present, of helping one another and of seeing what the Lord has in mind.

JWD Are your remarks in the way of what is suggestive, or is it authoritative? Do you expect the local assemblies of this country and the Lord’s servants to follow your remarks authoritatively about invitations and as to being sent as against being invited?

SMcC Well now, supposing I were to ask you that question, what would you say?

JWD I would say that we would help them authoritatively.

SMcC Any remarks that I make are subject to the judgment of the brethren, “Do ye judge what I say”, 1 Corinthians 10: 15.

JWD But where everything is on a different order, and practised differently, and a kind of ‘Oh well, that is alright, but we have done it for so many years, and our meetings are characteristically marked by that’. Well, what about a change?

SMcC I think we have to allow for wisdom in the saints, and judgment among the saints. In the light of the priesthood in Numbers, we are to discern what is ministered, and to take account of what is ministered, and as to whether the Lord is in it or not. That is all I would say.

AH Is not John specially selected by the Spirit to bring forward this very matter you are stressing, inasmuch as he is completely free from what is official himself, and a vessel to be used by the Spirit to stress this feature of the truth?

SMcC Just so. Therefore we should be concerned as to whether in what we do, and the service that we carry on in doing what our hand finds to do, we are near to the Lord, as to whether we know what it is to be near to Him in that sense, as John was, bearing in mind his uniqueness and the special place John had.

RW Is this matter of mutuality seen in the way Barnabas sought out Saul?

SMcC Yes, it is. Mr. Taylor referred to him many years ago, saying he was the unjealous introducer of his more gifted brother Paul. How heaven is pleased with unity amongst those that serve, that they say the same things, and that they have too, the same feelings in their heart. Paul said to the Corinthians, as to Titus, Timothy and himself, “Have we not walked in the same spirit? Have we not in the same steps?” 2 Corinthians 12: 18. The enemy could not get the wedge in, because they were not only united in what they were saying, but they were united in the spirit; they were united inwardly in the service.

- .J. Is this matter of being sent characteristic of John’s gospel? We also have the word in Isaiah 6, “Whom shall I send?” And then, after some exercise, Isaiah says, “Here am I; send me”.

SMcC Well, in that sense we should all be available; that is, it brings up the matter as to whether we are available. I might like to go to a nice place, where the weather was nice, and the like. But Isaiah was not sent to a nice place, nor was he given a very pleasant ministry, at the time. He had to do with a people that were affected by the government of God in their blindness, and that was no easy service. So that we need to be available in that sense.

WSS Paul was very simple and unofficial when he said, “Let us return now and visit the brethren ... and see how they are getting on”, Acts 15: 36.

SMcC I think we have to see the need at the present time for the unofficial side, yet moving under the Lord’s hand with a sense of a commission, for gift involves having a commission and how can gift serve without a sense of commission? If there is no sense of commission, how can you serve rightly in the sense in which we are referring to it?

PL And is not the commission bound up with vision, as with Moses, Isaiah and others?

SMcC Yes. So that in the final chapter that we read, the Lord brings this matter up with the twelve; that is, he is testing the unity that is there. He does not speak directly to Peter, He says, verse 67, “Jesus therefore said to the twelve”. We might say, Oh well, we cannot challenge the ministers, we cannot challenge the twelve. Why not? The Lord says to the twelve, “Will ye?” the emphatic ye, these persons, divinely selected, divinely made, as the eleven were, “Will ye also go away? Simon Peter answered him”, but he did not say, Where shall we go? He says “to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal”. It shows how the quality had risen above everything in Peter’s soul, risen above reputation and everything else. “Thou hast words of life eternal; and we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God”. That was something that Peter had reached in his soul. It was not a revelation, it was something that he had reached on the experimental side in his soul.

APCL So he is referred to as Simon Peter?

SMcC What do you make of that?

APCL I thought it was the man that you have been speaking about, not only from the divine side, but from the side of what he was as Simon, and brought into things.

SMcC Exactly. The linking of Simon with the name Peter would bear that out; it is important to see that. Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast words of life eternal”. He had arrived at something in his soul in that condition which the name “Simon Peter” suggests.

AJG Do you think that the fact that he says “we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God” shows that he recognised the necessity for moral suitability to be found with those who minister?

SMcC You feel it is very important that in dealing with the holy things of truth, and the holy things of God, that there should be moral suitability and consistency in those who set them forth. So that the Lord goes on, verse 70, “Jesus answered them”. It is a remarkable answer that He gives. He does not say, Well, that is a good word, Peter. He says, “Have not I chosen you the twelve? and of you one is a devil. Now he spoke of Judas the son of Simon, Iscariote, for he it was who should deliver him up, being one of the twelve”. I think that word should come home to all our hearts, that evil was so near, so near in the circle in which love was operating, in this remarkable way, and that the Lord should name him so specifically and definitely, “and of you one is a devil”. That is the Lord’s word.

PC Would Peter’s reference to the Lord as “the holy one of God” link with verse 39 of chapter 5, where the Lord speaks of the Scriptures as “they it is which bear witness concerning me”? Does everything culminate in the Person?

SMcC That is helpful. It shows that the whole scope of the testimony bears on Christ, and this chapter is a question of food, and how persons are constitutionally and what they are built up in relation to. The food is to build us up constitutionally and the answer is in Peter, and the others with him, Judas excepted; a right constitution comes out in what Peter confesses.