THE HOUSE OF GOD (4)
[p. 454] THE HOUSE OF GOD (4)
1 Kings 6: 23 - 36; 1 Timothy 3
JT Our subject is administration, or government, in connection with the house of God; the government that is seen there, which, of course, has in view His holiness. The element of rule or government is seen there, so I suggested the passage in Kings, because it shows, allied to that which would suggest the Spirit, the principle of government in the cherubims.
FL What would you say is suggestive of the Spirit?
JT The olive wood; that is, the house is spiritual; there is perhaps nothing so difficult with us as to get rid of material thoughts; and while there is that in the house of God which may be taken account of in a material way, the saints’ bodies, yet it is essentially spiritual.
FL There are other woods, cedar and fir.
JT They are not so prominent here as the olive, but they of course have their meaning. The cedar would suggest the dignity of the order of man that is there; the fir may be probably something for the eye.
FL I had rather thought the fir was the suggestion of life, the fir tree is what we call evergreen. It seems to come in in that way in Hosea 14: 8, “I am like a green fir tree”.
JT There is constant evidence of life; that which is pleasant, or restful for the eye.
JCS Then there are “half opened flowers”; flowers, as it were, bursting out in the energy of life. Moral beauty too, would you say?
JT Quite. It seems to indicate the energy of life producing that which is delightful to the eye and fragrant.
WCR Like Aaron’s rod that budded.
JT Just so. That was the evidence of life.
FL That went on to bearing fruit also.
JCS It budded, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.
WB-s In Psalm 92 you get the palm tree mentioned. “The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon. Those that be planted in the house of the Lord shall flourish in the courts of our God”. There it seems to connect fruit with the palm tree and longevity of life; “they shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing”.
JT The passage we have read serves to show the spiritual nature of the house of God, and allied with that the principle of government. I refer to the cherubims and the doors being made of olive wood and the walls and the doors being carved with figures of cherubims. The principle of government must never be absent, indeed I suppose it is never absent in anything that God has instituted: but the question is how it is carried out; whether it is with a rod, as Paul says, or by the influence of the word. The place the cherubims occupy in the house shows that what is in view is not so much the guarding of the ark as in the tabernacle, where they were overlooking the ark of the covenant but the general government of the house. The cherubims are made of olive instead of shittim wood.
GWH What does that signify?
JT I think it is what we were remarking, that the government of the house is spiritual. It is nevertheless government, but of a spiritual nature.
GWH That is, men that act in the house or God are spiritual men.
JT That is it, and judging from the moral qualifications mentioned in Timothy, the requirement is that they should be spiritual. No one is capable [p. 456] of ruling in the house of God save a spiritual man.
JCS And he would, I suppose, answer to responsibility. They are each ten cubits high.
JT Yes, I suppose the cherubims themselves refer to the perfection of manhood in Christ, for they reached from wall to wall of the oracle. The Spirit maintains correspondence with this in the assembly.
JCS I suppose we see there the element of responsibility and the full answer to it in a spiritual way.
JT The measurements show there was responsibility there, but alongside of it spirituality. As Paul says, “a measure to reach even unto you”. It was his measure, reaching to the Corinthians. In doing so, he did not overstretch, but acted according to the measure of the rule which the God of measure had apportioned. He did not take another man’s line of things. He had a measure of his own. It was a measure that was governed by his commission, and he answered to it. Therefore, in order to avoid using the rod, he did not go to them but he wrote to them. Nevertheless his measure reached to them.
FL With Paul righteousness and grace were exactly in proportion; that is, righteousness was not sacrificed one iota, but it was applied in such grace and skill that if it could do its work without the rod it would do it. Grace balanced the righteousness, and the righteousness the grace. Now we are so blundering, we are either righteous overmuch, and we push and trample, and crush, or else we are so lenient we are indifferent to righteousness and sacrifice truth under the name of grace. Now what you have introduced in regard to Paul I think shows a beautiful balance It corresponds with the five cubits in each wing of the cherubims.
JT Yes, he calculated as to what would be [p. 457] most appropriate, so he says, to spare you I do not come. He had authority to act toward them, but he preferred to influence them. The power of influence and the bringing the word of God in grace to bear upon them brought about the desired result, and so the first epistle effects self judgment and the second restoration to communion, and establishment. They are perfectly balanced so that in the end he says, “though the more abundantly I love you the less I be loved”. “But be it so”, he says. (2 Corinthians 12: 15,16) He was not going to change his methods, whatever they may have done or said. He is balanced according to the balances of the sanctuary in his service to them.
BTF The cherubims were overlaid with gold. What is the thought of that?
JT That is usually what represents God, what God is. All must be marked by that.
BTF So that it was the character of God, as it were, shining out in government.
JT Yes.
WB-s Is the thought of the oracle light and truth revealed?
JT The word denotes speaking and communications, so that the apostle, whilst exercising the government of the house of God in his letters, at the same time communicated the mind of God. There was perfectly blended in his messages the communication of the divine mind and the authority of God and the love of Christ in a man. In his exercises towards the Corinthians he maintained unchanged love, he says “Ye are our epistle, written in our hearts, known and read of all men”, 2 Corinthians 3: 2. It seems that it was manifest everywhere that he loved the Corinthian saints.
JCS Whilst all the light of God is out in divine revelation, would you say that the speaking continues today; that there is still divine speaking in the house?
JT [p. 458] I think so. It goes along with the government; that is, the cherubims are in the oracle, and they are the prominent feature there, so it would be that the Spirit of God speaks in the house, even as you get it in 1 Timothy 4: 1 and Hebrews 3: 7. “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly” and “As the Holy Spirit saith, To-day if ye will hear his voice”. So that there is the constant speaking of the Spirit, but then it is connected with the government of God. And so the Lord, in addressing the seven churches presents Himself in a special way to each, commending, warning, and threatening what He will do if they do not repent; but then, it is added “He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches”; that is, the Spirit is speaking, but Christ is governing, and they go together. Apart from the government of the Lord we could not have the speaking.
FL So also with regard to individuals: “If any man speak let him speak as the oracles of God”. I mean that, in teaching or in prophecy, it has that character attributed to it.
JCS So the more spiritual a man is the more qualified he is to be the mouthpiece for divine speaking.
JT Quite so. He is like the olive wood.
Rem Doors are mentioned here. The Lord in speaking to the churches speaks of an open door.
JT These doors are in the house. In Revelation 3, He says, “I have set before thee an opened door”, note, that it is not simply an open door, it is opened, signifying that it had been closed, and referring, I suppose, to the history of the church; but now in writing to Philadelphia the Lord indicates that He had opened it; the way is opened before her; in Laodicea the Lord is looking for someone to open to Him.
WHF Is the “opened door” good for us [p. 459] now?
JT Yes. It remains open. The Lord holds it open for us. That is a comforting thought.
FL The opened door does not depend upon our faithfulness but upon His power. The question of faithfulness would come in in our availing ourselves of it, using the light we have, as you said.
JT The opened door goes on to the end. It is a question of what the Lord does for the assembly.
WHF What is the difference between this door and what we get in Laodicea, where the Lord is outside and it is a question of the individual opening to Him?
JT Well, Laodicea describes the profession around us, especially what was once marked as Protestantism, and in that state of things the Lord has no place. But this does not signify that the Philadelphian state does not exist. Laodicea is simply a collateral state with Philadelphia, in the general profession of Christianity. The Lord has no place in it, but He seeks it, and the fact that He counsels her, and waits and knocks, emphasises His grace and patience. One would be very much discouraged if one thought that the Lord has no access anywhere. He is ready to enter in anywhere.
FL So that the good and blessing of what attaches to Himself personally is made available to the individual, and it is purely a question of state as to whether the individual enters into it or not that is, He stands at the door and knocks. It is individual and if the condition of things around is such that there is no inlet it does not deny to the individual the full sweetness and blessing of what is in the personal touch of Christ if you open to Him.
JT What we have been remarking on just now is, of course, apart from what is before us. We are occupied with the government of the house of God, and I think that it is of immense importance to see that it is spiritual, and the apostle Paul’s letters to [p. 460] the Corinthians illustrate the manner of that government as in human hands, exercised according to God.
FL And how near do Paul and Peter come in respect of that? Peter speaks of being built up a spiritual house. What is the point of contact or the point of difference?
JT Well, I do not suppose there can be any difference in that respect. Peter, of course, uses the word spiritual in contrast to what the Jews had, a material house and system of things, and he is showing that the saints themselves are the stones in it; in coming to Christ they are built up a spiritual house. But I think what 1 Kings shows, as connected with 1 Timothy, is that government is in keeping with the fact that it is a spiritual house; it is spiritual.
GWH The olive wood sets forth the character of the house in type.
JT I think the recovery in these last days has been to the recognition of the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is in the house of God, and He takes up men in it and uses them in a spiritual way in the carrying on of the government of it, otherwise, you must go back to civic power, or the ecclesiastical hierarchy. If we do not recognise the olive wood in that way, that is, if we do not recognise the presence of the Holy Spirit, we must go back to human made systems of government.
FL That is inevitable. Man cannot live without an outlet for religious impulses and experience, and if I am not in the light and under the control of the Spirit I must go to some organisation that will be a substitute, and that is the whole story of Christendom.
WB-s In 1 Corinthians 12 there are diversities of gifts by the same Spirit and in the end of that chapter, gifts of healings, helps, governments are spoken of. Is that in line with what we are speaking [p. 461] of?
JT Yes. That chapter shows how the Spirit of God works. Indeed the three Persons of the Godhead are brought in there (1 Corinthians 12: 4 - 11).
ANW Is the thought of government that God may have order in His house?
JT It becomes active when there is disorder, but it is never for one moment absent from the house.
ANW If there is a lack of spirituality in a certain place, must you forego government to a certain extent? What would you do?
JT The injunction to deal with sin is imperative. You cannot wait until you have the power to do it. You must do it.
HG Do you get the idea in Paul in connection with the elders in Ephesus? He says that after his departure grievous wolves should enter in not sparing the flock, and from amongst themselves men would arise speaking perverted things, as though he himself by his presence was a restraining power there. You get the same thing in Nehemiah. In his absence certain abuses crept in, but his return was a means of recovery. I mean these were spiritual men and by their very presence amongst the saints they restrained and held things. One has often seen it that evil would lift up its head amongst the saints, but there was power to restrain because of spiritual men who held things for God.
JT Quite, and so these elders were made overseers by the Holy Spirit. That only sustains what we were remarking. The apostle appointed them, but they were really appointed by the Spirit and that shows that the government of the house is spiritual. It is through men, but it is spiritual.
FL Returning to our brother’s question, it seems to me that the function of government in the divine system is to keep under restraint everything which would hinder the outflow of love; that is,
[p. 462] that love should be freely available to us from God and freely available to us amongst ourselves. As long as there is the presence of that which is lawless and disorderly, energy is absorbed in dealing with those things and the outflow of love is interrupted. In other words, the function of love is interrupted, and unless there is order there cannot be the function of love properly. I think that is where government comes in.
JT It is seen there. When the necessity exists it is more apparent, but the principle of government is always present. In this respect we may call it “government by influence”.
WB-s I would like to mention a case in the Old Testament, in regard to what was said as to the restraining power of the presence of a spiritual person. Jehoiada the priest, while he lived instructed Jehoash the king and under his influence he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord; he repaired the house of the Lord but as soon as Jehoiada died the king declined terribly, so much so that he killed the priest’s son, who stood faithful to the Lord. It is a notable case of what a spiritual man can do in keeping things in order.
JT So the elders were appointed by the Spirit. Paul says “over the which (the flock) the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers”. Even the serving of tables at the beginning was made dependent on the Spirit, men full of the Holy Spirit were to be appointed over that business. So particular was the Spirit that all should be done in spiritual energy, that even the ministration in temporal things depended upon those engaged in the service being full of the Holy Spirit.
WCR You get the same principle in Joshua. Things were held while Joshua and the elders lived.
HG How is it that in regard of the elders or overseers one was disqualified for oversight if their [p. 463] own house was not in order, and yet in the practical working out of it sometimes you will find a man unspiritual and yet his house is in good order, and vice versa, sometimes you see men who are spiritual, but they seem to have failed in regard of their households. I do not quite understand that. Such were disqualified for oversight.
JT Is it not apparent that the principle of the household is a divine institution? I think that current principles that have been introduced in certain parts of the world would set aside family relationships, but the family is a divine institution, husband and wife, parents and children. It is a divine institution that God has respect for, and in recovery through the gospel it is provided for: “Thou shalt be saved, and thy house”. God would secure, not only the man, but his house also. Now if God secures the house, it is quite obvious that He will give the man power to rule the house, and it should be a matter of very great concern with every believing husband or parent, to rule his house so that in the exercise he becomes a spiritual man; it is thus that he is qualified for the house of God. I believe it is intended to be so, that a man should, as it were, graduate from his own house into the house of God. That there are such cases as you mention, we have to admit with sorrow, but at the same time, God supports a man in the ruling of his house, so that he graduates through it and becomes qualified to rule in the house of God. I think this chapter in Timothy proves this, and the fact that God requires it, to my mind, shows the respect He has for His own primary institution; that is the household.
GWH I thought you came to the assembly to learn how to rule in your own house.
J .T. Things work together; in the assembly you learn what God is, but the discipline and exercise [p. 464] connected with your own house qualifies you to rule in the house of God. When you come to the injunctions in Timothy as to bishops or overseers you are impressed with the severity, as one may say, of the requirements for eldership. “If any one aspires to exercise oversight, he desires a good work. The overseer then must be irreproachable, husband of one wife, sober, discreet, decorous, hospitable, apt to teach; not given to excesses from wine, not a striker, but mild, not addicted to contention, not fond of money, conducting his own house well, having his children in subjection with all gravity (but if one does not know how to conduct his own house, how shall he take care of the assembly of God?); not a novice, that he may not, being inflated, fall into the fault of the devil. But it is necessary that he should have also a good testimony from those without, that he may fall not into reproach and the snare of the devil”, 1 Timothy 3: l - 7. There is the description of an elder; and the point is made of his conduct and rule in his own house, and, as it says parenthetically, if he cannot do that, he cannot rule in the house of God.
AHP Would you say that rule is by spiritual influence in the house?
JT It is. That is God’s way. When He has to apply the “rod”, it shows there is active sin.
FL Proverbs was written in the day of the law, and the rod is very prominent, but in Ephesians and Colossians we are in the life and the atmosphere of the house of God, and the sway is of influence and of grace and love, but none the less it is a sway; there must be rule. It does not suggest that the reins are thrown overboard and there is no government, but the government takes character from the attitude which God has taken in His house. This is very remarkable, coming from a man who had no wife, no [p. 465] family.
JT He was taking account of the saints as a whole, that in the history of the assembly, generally speaking, men would be married and have families. So God has respect for His own institution, and in the Gentile world that institution had become corrupted and degraded, that is, polygamy has come in. Noah, I think, in the Old Testament is a sort of typical household man. He had only one wife, and each of his sons had only one wife, and he loved his house and built an ark to the saving of it. But it is quite evident that subsequent to that the family idea became corrupted and degraded. Therefore, in the requirement of the elder, he has to be the husband of one wife. A man that is to rule in God’s house must be in keeping with the original institution.
FL So if we are found under certain conditions we must accept the penalty of it. If when a man was converted in the early days of Christianity he had two wives, he could not get rid of his responsibility in respect of them. He could not cast them adrift, but he would have to accept the penalty in a governmental way, that he could not govern in the house of God. So in conditions in which we may be found there may be things resting upon us governmentally. We have to accept it and just go quietly on, but we cannot override the divine order laid down here.
JT God is not going to change His methods for any of us. We must suffer from the government of God if we are linked up with anything contrary to it.
FL It is very important that those who households are still very young should keep these principles before them.
WB-t It is very encouraging to see that the difficulties that the men with younger households are going through fits them to rule in the house of God, to have part in its government.
JT Yes, and then he passes on to the “deacons”.
It says: “Ministers, in like manner, grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not seeking gain by base means, holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these be first proved, then let them minister, being without charge against them”, 1 Timothy 3: 10. One is impressed with the care and forethought of the Spirit, that there should be nothing in those who are publicly engaged in the house of God to bring discredit upon it. The requirements are not so strenuous, perhaps, as with the elder, but nevertheless they were to be in accord with the house of God. Their service was to be marked by spiritual power, and then it says further about women: “The women in like manner grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things”. And then it further adds: “Let the ministers be husbands of one wife, conducting their children and their own houses well: for those who shall have ministered well obtain for themselves a good degree, and much boldness in faith which is in Christ Jesus”. That is the recompense.
WB-s Peter would represent the first mentioned here, and Stephen the second. Peter was a married man and he certainly is connected with government. He speaks of himself as an elder.
JT Quite.
WB-s Then Stephen had a remarkable character as a deacon. He purchased for himself “a good degree and great boldness in the faith”.
WB-t What is “a good degree”?
JT It is a certain dignity conferred.
W.B-t. In the assembly?
JT Yes, God knows how to confer degrees. Here it is “obtain for themselves”.
FL We see in Stephen one perfectly willing to give himself over to the service of widows and the needy, taken up by the Spirit of God to bear testimony to what he saw; the heavens opened, the glory [p. 467] of God and Jesus standing at the right hand and so to prepare the ground for Paul to come in. It suggests that the Spirit of God carried one whose heart was with the saints in the lowliest service to the highest ministry of glory, and so it seems to me he had obtained for himself the good degree. See that is thus opened to us!
WB-t I was thinking the “good degree” and “boldness” are present things, something conferred on one at the present time.
FL Where men, however, showed such a spirit of Christ as Stephen showed when he knelt down and gave up his spirit to Christ, there is the good degree.
JT It was the result of a wonderful formation in a man.
FL It was indeed. You may depend upon it that we shall see Stephen in a very prominent place in the world to come.
JT Then Paul goes on to say: “These things I write to thee, hoping to come to thee more quickly, but if I delay, in order that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself in God’s house, which is the assembly of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth”. He tells us plainly why he wrote; it was a question of conduct in the house of God.
WHBT The wings of the cherubims rested on the walls: do you think Paul in giving his directions in this way was bringing in the cherubims?
JT He was putting them on the walls, so to speak, so everywhere you look you are reminded of the government of God in the house.
WHBT That is to say, you come in and you are conscious of this influence; you are conscious of the presence of what the cherubims represent.
JT We are brought to this: I cannot assert my own will among the people of God. I cannot prescribe my own terms. The cherubims remind [p. 468] me that God is to do that. I am to be subject to the rule that is there, not to act contrary to it or to pursue a course that is in any way opposed to it to do so would be very serious.
FL The cherubims on the walls, as we have been saying, speak of government. God is not the God of disorder, but of peace, and in all the assemblies that was written, so to speak, on the walls.
JT And that brings in another point, that the house of God involves catholicity. What one notices, and what one is conscious of in one’s self is localism or sectionalism. Now the house of God is not limited to any locality, or any country. It is universal. So that the thing in that respect is to become a good Catholic, not a Roman Catholic which implies localism. The Thessalonians had become imitators, it says, “of the assemblies of God which are in Judaea in Christ Jesus”, 1 Thessalonians 2: 14. They became catholic to this extent that they imitated assemblies in Christ elsewhere.
JCS But would you look for the expression locally of the features of the house of God? That is, whilst the house of God is universal in its character, you would look for the features of the house in any locality where the saints are found.
JT Yes, you would. The house is usually found in catholic epistles. It was to be seen locally, of course, but no local assembly is designated as the house of God.
GWH So you would not localise yourself in the prayer meeting. You would think of the house; your affections would go out to the uttermost parts of the earth.
AT At the golden altar before God, and there is only one, all the prayers meet.
Rem Prayer is to be made for all men and for those in authority. That is universality.
JCS We have been speaking of the house of [p. 469] God as a spiritual idea, that which Christ builds in His own life and nature, and I judge that line cannot admit of failure. Now we are considering something that will, which has to be met by divine government.
JT The house, as viewed here is a sphere of conduct. The house of God is spiritual according to 1 Peter 2, but in Hebrews it says “If ye continue”.
JCS I thought the house, being spiritual, does not admit of destruction or failure.
JT Judgment begins at it. It does not say that it comes under judgment, but it begins there. I think the house itself remains intact. God preserves it in His own way.
JCS So those who compose the house of God are subjects of divine discipline and government, but not in the house character.
JT I think in house character. Judgment begins at it and then it says, “If it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?” (1 Peter 4: 17) showing that even we come under judgment in the way of discipline, but then only for preservation and not for destruction.
JCS That is so, but what I had in mind was, you have been speaking of the house of God as a spiritual thing, that which is really built by God, I thought that whilst those who composed it are the subjects of discipline, it is hardly in house character.
JT But it has to be borne in mind that the house is composed of persons. It is not something in us that forms the house of God; the saints themselves are viewed as the house. In this respect, Scripture takes account not exactly of what is in me by itself, but of myself and yourself. “Ye also”, it says, “as living stones”; not something in you, but you.
JCS So in Matthew 16, “thou art Peter”. It was Peter who was taken account of.
JT It was not something in Peter, but Peter himself.
Ques The house is not an abstract idea then?
JT No, it is concrete. It is composed of individuals.
Rem So the house is always looked at as complete.
JT The saints on earth at any time are the house of God; and it is always here; but it is composed, not of something in the saints, but the saints themselves.
BTF Then judgment begins there in order to restore what is declining, but the person remains in the house.
JT Even the man put away at Corinth did not cease to be part of the house, but the judgment was that his spirit might be saved.
JCS So that what really makes discipline necessary is because we are of the house and God will not tolerate in us that which is inconsistent with the revelation of Himself there.
JT And the judgment really is in the house, because God is hardly judging the world yet, but He is showing that He will not tolerate evil. He shows that in His house.
FL The effect of His chastening and discipline is to remove foreign substances. If I get something in my eye I am glad to have it taken out. It does not belong there.
JT A man’s work may be destroyed; the fruit of his labours burned; but yet he is saved, but so as through fire: 1 Corinthians 3: 15.
GWH The olive leaf survives.
JT That is it.
JCS We were remarking that it is not a question of what is built in us that forms the house; we are being built up a spiritual [p. 471] house.
JT It is a much harder thing to build in the person. Stone squaring has to be done. The Lord takes him up and fashions him, so it is, “To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, ye also, as lively stones, are built up”.
JCS It is you who are being built up in the house.
WB-s Ezekiel 8 speaks of the house coming under judgment. There it is not wickedness outside that is dealt with. The prophet is brought to the door and goes thence inward and where there are still further abominations, but all in regard to the house. The Lord says “my sanctuary”. It is one of the strongest scriptures I know of in regard of judgment in the house of God.
JT That is quite an important feature: “Begin at my sanctuary”, He says. The judgment began there.
FL Because in that place they had introduced idolatrous abominations in the place of the Lord.
JT Men were standing up with their backs to the temple and their faces toward the east. Think of that! Turning their backs to the light of God, and looking towards the sun. That is pretty much what has happened in Christendom.
W.B-s. Is that apostasy?
JT It is. Men are deliberately turning their backs to the blessed light of God and looking to material sources for light, and worshipping these material things, as is said in Ezekiel.
JCS Whilst the house of God, as you were saying, is not a local idea, I judge it is in our localities we have the opportunity of working out these principles together and being governed by the light of the house of God.
JT But I think it is a great thing to cultivate the habit of including in your affections and prayers, especially in your prayers, all the saints.
JCS I quite [p. 472] think that.
ANW But did not Mr. Darby say that office was local? I thought the offices we were speaking of in Timothy were local.
JT Oh, that is quite true. An elder would be an elder in Ephesus only, but he would live in relation to the whole house. The local assembly had the character of the house, but the house of God is a general thought, as we have been saying.
JS An Ephesian saint was marked by faith in the Lord Jesus and love to all the saints.
WB-t What is the difference between office and gift? It says here, “If any man desire the office of a bishop”, then what follows is a question of qualification, not of gift. There are many who might be bishops, or might take part in government in the house of God who are without special gift.
JT Gift is by itself. It is all the better if an overseer has gift. The elders who laboured in word or teaching are to be esteemed worthy of double honour. I do not know that we know much about honouring such now.
WCR I want to ask a question about praying for the saints. It is a great thing you said to cultivate the habit of praying for all saints.
JT I think it enlarges you and keeps you from being too local, and I think I have noticed a tendency with us to be local, that is, we have something in New York; you have something in Detroit; our brother has something in Christchurch; and each one takes a certain amount of pride it may be in what we have as distinctive. Now that, I think, is to be deprecated. It shows we are not catholic. The thing is to find out what marks the house of God, “the assemblies of God”, and to be imitators of that.
FL I suppose we might remember another thing, that is, if we do not make intercession for all men, nobody else will. Nobody else [p. 473] can.
JT In regard of prayer for the Lord’s people; I believe that as you pray for them the Lord will put you into touch with them in some way or other, and will give you power with them. One usually finds that where you pray for a saint you get power with him.
JCS In praying for all the saints, you would suggest that we even go wider than those with whom we walk, and are in sympathy with and would embrace all the people of God down here?
JT Yes.
GWH Is it not the thought of the assembly in the abstract that is in your mind?
JT You see them according to God.
JS You want to be in sympathy with all that the heart of Christ is set on.
FL We might as well take it for granted that we cannot help any brother unless we can speak to God about him in freedom of spirit. You can go to a man and tell him what he is, and what he ought to do, but unless you can speak to God about him you cannot help him.
JT As a prince; that is, as formed in grace, you have power with God and with men; Genesis 32: 28.
WHBT The walls of the house are carved with cherubims, and olive, and palms, and then covered with gold. It seems to me if we could get a sight like that of the saints it would be a great help on the line we are speaking of. I suppose it is possible to serve the saints in that way?
JT Surely. The Corinthians were addressed as the assembly of God.
JS Does our answering to the government of the house indicate what you sec in the cherubims?
JT Yes. “Half-opened flowers” being there suggests that in the exercise of government there is that which refreshes and helps.
HG So there were no cherubims in the priest’s [p. 474] garments. The Good Samaritan had no, cherubims in His garments, I mean that he did not fasten any guilt on the man who had left Jerusalem and gone to Jericho. He could minister to him in grace and bring him into a place of safety. See also John 8: 1 - 11.
Ques Is discipline in the assembly by the saints and in the house of God?
JT Formal discipline is necessarily exercised locally, and is by the assembly as such, as we see in 1 Corinthians 5; it is in accord with the house, and so what is done is accepted by all other assemblies. God’s government of His house always goes on.