READINGS IN COLOSSIANS (2)
[p. 176] READINGS IN COLOSSIANS (2)
Colossians 2; Colossians 3:1 - 11
JT In this meeting we may see the relation between verse 15 of chapter 1, Christ the “image of the invisible God”, and verse 10 of chapter 3, in which the new man is said to be “renewed into full knowledge according to the image of him that has created him”. Pursuant to what was said this morning about the divine impress being on all, it may be remarked that the Colossians evidently had reached the life stage, that is, life in a practical, substantial sense, and the object, among other things, in the epistle is to place the divine impress on that. The presence of life is indicated in the fact that they had love for “all the saints” and “love in the Spirit”. The carrying of the stone in (Joshua 4) by a representative of each tribe would point to this; they were in life, and were set down in relation to one another at Gilgal, but the divine impress was to be worked out, and the stones were to be a memorial. Their children should ask them what they meant. “What mean ye by these stones?” that is the first question; the second question is, “What mean these stones?” First it is, “What mean ye by these stones?” as if the onus is put upon the saints to convey the meaning.
We have already seen the enlargement given in (Colossians 1) to the Person of Christ, and His headships; and then the ministries of Paul are evidently to work those features out in us, on the principle of divine representation.
HH I was struck with what you have drawn attention to, first, of Christ Himself being the image of the invisible God, and then the reference in chapter 3 to the new man as “renewed into full knowledge according to the image of him that has created him”. Is the thought that that image is transferred to the believer?
JT Yes; and the new man in this epistle [p. 177] is suggestive of what is young or fresh; so that the idea of image is to be impressed on fresh young life, but in the way of knowledge renewal of knowledge. The idea of renewal, “renewed into full knowledge”, is that it is to be new in the sense of being different from what the Greek or the ceremonialist would have in mind. Colossians has in mind the freshness and energy of life in the saints as set in relation to one another; not necessarily gathered together, but set in relation to one another, as indicated in the twelve stones; that the “image of him that created him” should be in the new man.
HH Would you say in regard of Colossians generally that it does not suppose the saints as convened?
JT That is not the point of view. It is our being united in life, whether we are convened or not. The apostle speaks of the ‘order’ that marked them, and this would allude to them as gathered together.
HH Is the thought that the work of God is such, that God can put His own impress upon it?
JT Yes; and that would fit in with present current conditions. There is a good deal of energy, but we need to be representative of God.
FHB Does the new man represent the sum of God’s work in all the saints?
JT I think so. Colossians is dealing with the saints as a whole, although the saints at Colosse were immediately in view; but what I have remarked is only to indicate what we may see. I think we ought specially to notice the headships of Christ in chapter 1 and the ministries of Paul; because these come in with peculiar weight in Colossians. It is not arbitrary, but more that they are presented in their own weight. The headship of Christ in creation is the effect of His own power then His headship of the church through redemption; and then His being here as an instrumentality for the Godhead His deity asserted in that the fulness dwelt there;
[p. 178] the Godhead reconciling by Him all things and persons; and then the ministries of Paul following on that all coming in with their own peculiar weight. Thus it is the idea of ministry, not so much authority by itself, as what appeals to you in a moral way. Paul was the minister of the gospel and the minister of the church.
HH Would you say that the truth of the greatness of Christ is brought in in order to lift the saints up to appreciate what the assembly is, as that of which He is the Head?
JT I think so; it is to impress and attract us. Thus we are led into the full purpose, of God, drawn into the fulness of the mystery. The mystery is not fully stated in this epistle, but the apprehension of Christ as Head will lead us into it as in Ephesians.
HES Are the two thoughts of image referred to here somewhat on the line of the gospel and epistle of John? In the gospel it is, “Which thing is true in him”, and in the epistle, “Which thing is true ... in you”.
JT Yes. The epistle corresponds because it is a question of what is true in us. It is what the life is and where it is; it is in Christ it is seen. The subject really is life in that epistle; but here, whilst life is brought in, it is rather as that on which God through Christ can place his impress which is another line. Colossians has heaven in view; our hope is laid up there Christ is in us, the hope of glory.
EuR Is the assembly unique in that it says He is Head to it?
JT Yes. It is the body in Colossians “Head of the body”, chapter 1:18. That is the full idea as adding to His glory.
DLH What is the exact bearing of the mystery in chapter 2, “in which are hid all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge” verse 3?
JT The full thought is in Ephesians, God heading up all things In Christ, things in heaven and things on [p. 179] earth. The church being His body He is Head over all things to it. It is brought in here as a corrective or saving element, as he says, “I say this to the end that no one may delude you by persuasive speech”. He brings it in, not so much to develop the mystery, as to bring out that all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge were there, and, therefore, they did not need anything outside of it.
DLH Was not the danger at Colosse reverting to human wisdom, so that the fact of the treasures of wisdom and knowledge being wrapped up in the mystery is brought in to divert them from that?
JT That is how it stands, because he goes on to say, “See that there be no one who shall lead you away as a prey through philosophy and vain deceit”, and so forth.
ASL Then it is the mystery of God in this chapter; not the mystery of Christ exactly, but the “mystery of God; in which are hid all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge”. As you say, it is the full thing and all that is hidden in it.
JT That is the thought. The Colossians apparently were not equal to entering into it fully; so that he does not proceed with it, but brings it in to shew that the treasures of wisdom and knowledge were there.
JRS It says, “And he is the head of the body, the assembly”, and that is followed up immediately by, “Who is the beginning”; what is the point in that?
ASL That is a very wonderful word, “Who is the beginning”.
JT “Who is the beginning, firstborn from among the dead, that he might have the first place in all things”. It is not ‘from’ the beginning, but that He is it; He is the beginning of everything that is for God.
HFN Would you mind saying a little more on the thought of securing the material? Did I understand you to say it was that on which God could put His [p. 180] image?
JT I think that is a point we should specially notice; because it is a question of life in Colossians; that is, life by quickening. It is, therefore, not simply the Holy Spirit in us as life potentially as in Romans; but it is life by quickening. Life was seen at the passage of the Jordan. In the types, in this respect, the Holy Spirit begins with (Numbers 21). He is life there potentially and from the time of the recognition of Him the people move on; but there is more than that as you reach Jordan. It is a question of the effect of the Spirit; so that the stone lifted out of the bed of Jordan and carried out on the shoulder by a representative of each of the tribes, denotes that the persons are marked by power.
MWB Are you speaking of life in a subjective way now?
JT Exactly; the believer is not only ‘reckoned’ alive, as in Romans, he is alive by the quickening power of God.
MWB Life is sometimes spoken of objectively, and I only wanted to get clear that you have what is subjective before you.
JT I have; what in the types is seen in twelve persons representative of the whole nation, under the direction of Joshua, each taking a stone and carrying it up and placing it where they were to lodge. There is life (in the sense of power) there; but then that life is now in a new sphere, and it is a question of how it is to be regulated and impressed. I should like that we may get hold of that. The title of God to all the creation was in view in the passage of the Jordan; and so the headships of Christ, brought in in relation to His Person, are intended to impress us. He is introduced as “image of the invisible God”. We are on new ground. It is no longer a question simply of intelligence objectively; we are in a new position and alive in it. Rahab, as we said, is the link here. It is not a question now of the effect of a powerful ministry in the wilderness; but rather the life in itself manifested. Evidently the apostle had [p. 181] not been there. Colossians is to bring out the thing itself; and the greatness of the headships of Christ, as in chapter 1, and the ministries of Paul, I believe, are intended to impress us with their great weight; not so much formal authority as in the wilderness in Moses, but by their own weight, because the Person of Christ is interwoven with the truth itself. As in redemption and creation, the headships are intended to impress us, and so are Paul’s ministries.
MWB That is why you are emphasising the newness, freshness of the life. It is imperishable. Do you link that with what you said at Worcester as to the girl of twelve years of age?
JT Yes; she is a good illustration of it, so that great care is taken that it should be stripped of everything that would becloud it; and hence the great care in the opening of Joshua in regard to the position in Canaan, so that there should not be a taint from all that preceded, nor anything that should becloud the thing that was there, but that it should be there in its own intrinsic worth. Hence you get, as I said, the evidence of life in the carrying up of the stones and placing them together; and there was the idea of ‘victuals’; food is needed. It is a time when there is great need of sustenance from suitable food; as was said with regard to the little girl, something should be given her to eat.
Then you have the stopping of one kind of food and the introduction of another; that is, the transition from the manna to the heavenly food. It is a delicate position because it is a change of food, as in the bringing up of a child, and everything is reckoned carefully so that the life according to God should be in the land. Rahab was already there. She had not come under the influence of the ministry of Moses, but she had heard of what Jehovah did at the Red sea that is, in the death and resurrection of Christ; and of what they did, which points to the power of the Spirit of God in the saints.
[p. 182] She had heard about those things, and she knew the effect of the tidings on all the inhabitants of Canaan was that they were as dead men. That is an evidence of something by itself; and faith is attributed to her in Hebrews, after being attributed to Israel as to the passage of the Red sea. “By faith they passed through the Red sea”, and now faith is in the land in a person that had not come under the influence of Moses. Then you have the idea of food, first the victuals and then the change of food. Then we have the circumcision, six hundred thousand or more all circumcised at once; that is to say, you are brought down to a state of weakness, for the flesh profits nothing. That is the position here. There is thus room for the power of God to act.
MWB It is remarkable that Agag was slain at Gilgal: “And Agag came ... delicately. And Agag said, Surely the bitterness of death is past ... . And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal”.
JT He was slain by Samuel. The fact that Saul was at Gilgal did not add anything to him, and did not give him one atom of discernment or power, shewing that the outward thing is of no value, without the corresponding effect in us. Gilgal became discredited afterwards, coming under the influence of the flesh. Amos says, “At Gilgal multiply transgression”.
JJ How do you regard the other twelve stones put into the bed of the river?
JT Those in the Jordan are a testimony that we have, been in death, and that the life we have is not acquired in the flesh at all; it is a life out of death. That is the principle of it. We have been “buried with him in baptism”. The stones set in Jordan was Joshua’s act. Christ shewed His disciples His hands and his side as risen. There is the evidence in Him that He has been in death, and thus we have been there.
PL It says of Rahab that Joshua saved her alive, would that go with this thought [p. 183] of life?
JT That is good; and then the idea of continuance that we noted this morning. She continued “to this day” in Israel. And she had the Colossian trait of hiding; she hid the spies, and also directed them to hide themselves on the mountain.
ASL Would Colossians 2 give the idea at all of an experimental passing through the Jordan and coming out of it on the other side? The apostle says, “Ye are complete in him”, and then goes on, “In whom also ye have been circumcised with circumcision not done by hand, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of the Christ; buried with him in baptism, in which ye have been also raised with him through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”. And then, “Quickened together with him”. I thought perhaps that referred to something they had experimentally been through in getting on to this new ground.
JT That is right, and so it is the position at Gilgal that is in view; they had reached that point. The hiding place suggests that they were not to remain there, as already said, but Gilgal is a camping place; they returned there after their conquests; it implied habitual self judgment.
ASL Have not we got to resort there?
JT Yes; “mortify therefore”. I do think God is helping the brethren as to our meetings and ministry, but I believe He would raise the question with us as to the extent of His work in us, for that is all that counts, and I believe the more you consider Rahab the more you see that she represents it. The thing is there that God values; but her public history is intended to be humbling. Life is evidenced in faith, intelligence and confidence. God is aiming at getting that life in its fulness, so as to impress it, because there is to be a family in heaven, as well as a family on earth, which is moulded on a certain pattern. The idea of life underlies everything for God;
[p. 184] but God moulding or patterning the families is what is so important. He intends to bring out the greatest result from us, and hence the importance of development in life, and the removal of what hinders it. The epistle of John helps us in this, it directs us inwards, to make soundings, to see where we are as regards the work of God; leaving aside all that we may have learned from books and the like, to find out just what is the extent of the work of God in us.
HH “Christ in you” I was wondering whether that would fit in with what you said about Christ being so interwoven with the truth viewed subjectively.
JT That is the way it is presented in Colossians; I think “quickened ... with him” means that Christ had a place. They had followed Him over Jordan, so to speak. They were lovers of Christ. They were quickened with Him, and raised with Him, but not here said to be seated in the heavenlies in Him. The mystery here is “Christ in you, the hope of glory”.
HH That is the thought of life.
JT That is it; Christ is our life, chapter 3:4. Then there is the hope, the glory is not yet reached, chapter 1:27.
ASL Quickening is not by faith. We are risen by faith, but quickening is the work of God.
FHB And it applies to persons. It is not only having the Spirit potentially, but the person is quickened.
JT The whole person is affected.
ASL And it is in contrast to a state of death.
JT And the fact that they were quickened is seen typically in the carrying up of the stones; that was the evidence of power. Quickening is from a state of moral death “dead in offences and in the uncircumcision of your flesh”.
Ques How would the expression in Galatians fit in with the subject of life here? “The life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God”, (Galatians 2:20).
JT “The life which I now live in the flesh” is his life in the wilderness. It is not what we are dealing with here. Colossians is over Jordan; (Galatians 2:20) refers to Paul’s life here; but being by “the faith of the Son of God”. What Christ is in resurrection and glory filled his heart.
ASL That is rather objective.
JT It would be; but here we are seeking to get at the position that the saints are brought into in living affections, which is by the Spirit. It is not only local; there is too much localism, but I think the Lord is helping us to be general in our affections, to love all the saints. This is a great position; because the full apprehension of Christ as Head, and of the mystery, is that which supersedes this world altogether, and that which is to abide when this world is gone. The saints have not come to that generally, so there is exposure to an impress of another kind, such as clever speaking. The first danger pointed out in chapter 2 is “persuasive speech”; we have to be on our guard against that. Gift of course would carry with it ability to express it in speech, but persuasive speech has to be watched, and then learning too; the apostle is contemplating what is a danger under these circumstances “philosophy and vain deceit, according to the teaching of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ”.
MWB Would the contrast to that be coming under the influence of the headship of Christ and the mystery?
JT That is most important; they come in in the way of impressive weight. Then in chapter 2 the idea of the mystery is something in which everything in the way of wisdom and knowledge is hidden. That is a great thought to get into the soul. It is brought in as a saving feature; and then the correspondence with Christ that marks us, objectively, in His circumcision and His resurrection. “Buried with him in baptism”; it is now a question of with Him, correspondence with Him, which [p. 186] love delights in. In Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily; so that there is no need to go outside of Him; all is there and available for us.
ASL Not holding fast the Head is characteristic of the false teacher.
GWW Is what you have in mind that we are not engaged now with Satan’s opposition to a certain life for God in the wilderness; but his opposition to the Christian passing on into the enjoyment of life in its own sphere; a system of affections, which is proper to that life?
JT Quite; and working out in the saints universally loving one another, manifesting the traits of the new man; for God would impress on us the image of Him that created the new man.
Ques In connection with the stones being taken out of Jordan to which you referred earlier, have you in mind the affections of all the saints?
JT They are set down together as representative of unity, twelve of them; it is unity in life. Our hearts are to “be encouraged, being united together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the full knowledge of the mystery of God”.
EuR Does the family at Bethany stand in that relation?
JT It does. It is pretty much the idea in (John 12), and so Christ coming in would impress them. He would be owned as Head there.
EuR You do not get “neither male nor female” here, do you? Chapter 3:11.
JT No; you have it in (Galatians 3), where sonship is presented as taking us out of the realm to which the law applies. The testimony here is in view in the new man, and so man and his wife are noted in Colossians. The type in Joshua helps us as to all this; you have this new life in evidence, and pains taken to strip it of everything that would becloud it, so that you might have the thing [p. 187] itself; and then the nourishment that it needs. It is carried along to this point on wilderness food, special victuals being mentioned in view of going over the Jordan and carrying the stones out of the bed of it. But now you need another food, (Joshua 5), “the old corn of the land”. The manna ceases; it is a most critical position, because if I cannot live on the old corn of the land, I must succumb. We must learn that the manna has ceased. Then the position is changed. At the end of (Joshua 5) a man appears to Joshua with a drawn sword in his hand, meaning that now as adjusted to the new position, and having taken on heavenly food we are regarded as heavenly warriors. Colossians does not lead us that far, but only shews the bearing of the truth that the Lord would lead us on from this point to the full heavenly position designed for us as in Ephesians. So that now Joshua himself, the leader up to this point, and the link really between Moses and the captain of the Lord’s hosts, has to learn that there is another leader.
JJ Is the point evident in Colossians where the food changes?
JT Chapter 2 makes way for it, but this epistle hardly takes us to the position to which the “old corn” applies. We are led up to that point where we begin to see Christ in heaven; the “old corn of the land” is Christ in His own sphere. I do not know much about it, but I see in it that there is a point to be reached by us, and if we reach it and hold it in our souls we shall be right as to all else. That is what God is leading us on to, and to this end we specially need to understand life as seen here the thing in itself; but whilst you are quickened, when you come to the thing you enjoy, it is Christ; Christ is our life. As in this life we are united practically, and thus the grace of Christ works out in a collective way the new man.
HH The new man is more than an individual thought; [p. 188] it is collective.
JT It is collective, including all the saints. It is not a question of our being together, as in Corinthians, but collective in the sense of including all the saints. The same traits are seen in the saints everywhere, Christ being all things and in all.
HH It is more than a kingdom thought.
JT It is; and even more than an assembly thought, as in 1 Corinthians. Although it enters into that, it is a question of what God is effecting in all the saints.
EJMcB That is what is proper to all the people of God.
JT That is right, for if God is operating in me. He is operating in relation to all the saints. That is an important thing to remember; if He is operating in any one of us. He is operating in relation to all; so Colossians and Ephesians treat of the whole work of God, especially Ephesians.
JJ Does (John 6) help at all in connection with the change of food?
JT Yes; it is for the individual. But I do not think (John 6) takes you over Jordan. It is for life, of course if we eat we live but Canaan contemplates all the saints; it is God operating in all the saints. We must never lose sight of that, hence the twelve stones in (Joshua 4). (John 6) is Christ as bread come down from heaven; the old corn is Christ in heaven.
HES You spoke of the new position; is quickening always in view of our being made to live in connection with the new position?
JT That is the idea; you are quickened with Christ; you are thus in association with Him in the new place. Many have missed it in making quickening an objective thing; whereas it is to bring you consciously to the new position so as to occupy it suitably.
MWB Is that why the positional thought of risen is linked with faith; whereas quickening is not so?
JT Quickening is actual. I think you will agree [p. 189] that if God is working in you. He is working in you in relation to all the saints.
MWB So whilst it might be reached individually, yet what is reached is proper to all.
JT And further, if you reach a point in your soul normally, you wish all to reach it. That is love for all the saints; life works out in that way.
Ques Had Rahab reached it when she said, “I know that Jehovah has given you the land”?
JT She is very humble in her remarks, but in truth she represents the life that has been reached. We must view all that appears in her in a spiritual way, and in the light of the antitype.
ER Does not the thought of ‘with him’ help us to understand it?
JT The point in chapter 2 is to be brought into correspondence with Christ. You are circumcised in His circumcision, risen with Him “through faith of the working of God who raised him from among the dead”, and then you are quickened with Him. It is all in association with Christ. God will have His people in His land, not as units, but all circling around Christ.
GWW Does the matter of the stones in Solomon’s temple help at all? They were subject to certain operations in order to take their place on mount Zion.
JT It is the same idea.
GWW They were not operated on simply for their own sake, but in view of a certain position they were to occupy. Is that the thought?
JT Exactly. Peter takes that up in the living stones.
ASL So it is emphasised in Ephesians that there is one new man, not millions of new men, but one new man.
JT In Canaan everything points to Christ. That is Colossians; you are standing in relation to Christ. The new life, however small, stands in relation to Christ, and that is what we come to here: “Christ is everything, and in all”.
[p. 190] JCS Is that what you meant by a sphere where Christ is everything, and is cherished as Head in the affections of the saints?
JT That is right.
HH I would like to ask what you understand by the manna? It went over Jordan; it says, “The manna ceased on the morrow, when they had eaten of the old corn of the land”.
JT It is what Christ was in everyday life here. You find it everywhere, for He entered into all human circumstances, sin apart.
HH It is still food for the saints.
JT Food as in the wilderness, but not as in the land, it will never sustain you in the land. You will not find it there, because Christ is not in heaven in the circumstances in which He was here, He is in other circumstances. That is what the mount of transfiguration means, that you might see, in a sense, what is up there.
MWB Do you not think we need to know more of that side of Christ what He is where He is? One feels how little one has touched that side of things.
JT Well, I think that is what we may come to here; so chapter 2 is a sort of adjusting chapter. It is the application of the death of Christ in certain relations to adjust our souls, so that we might be free of everything that would becloud this precious, new, fresh, life which is in us. Philosophy and vain deceit, the traditions of men and ceremonialism; then the “law of commandments contained in ordinances” had all been nailed to His cross. That ought to touch our hearts, because the nailing was in Him but in this connection it is that He took away everything that might becloud or clog the saints in the development of this new life and their entrance into the sphere which divine love had prepared for them.
Ques Is it not true that we experience in our present conditions both the wilderness life with its food, the [p. 191] manna, and have the privilege of entering the land and enjoying its food?
JT That is right. The two things run along together; but what we are dealing with here has to be reached; and you will never reach it on a special occasion unless you learn it in your own soul, and are brought into adjustment with Christ through His death, so that you apprehend Him as head in heaven. As it says here, “From whom all the body, ministered to and united together by the joints and bands, increases with the increase of God”. This new, fresh life is linked up with Christ as the Head, and through the bands and joints there is increase according to “the increase of God”.
JCS Is it right that each holds the Head for himself, but it is the Head of the body we hold?
JT Exactly; you hold Him in relation to all the saints, and thus you are in unity If we are to enjoy the assembly in its highest privileges this epistle has to be reached in our souls; we have to understand what it is to pass over and be in a new life, entirely outside of wilderness conditions. It is a wholly spiritual matter, depending not only on the possession of the Spirit, but on His work in us.
JJ Do you not think if we understood the divine image was to be impressed on all the material, it would give us a very much greater appreciation of all the saints?
JT Yes. Colossians, like Ephesians, contemplates “all the body”. To hold ourselves in relation to the vastness of the body is an enlarging thought. “Holding fast the head”, ministered to and united together by the joints and the bands, there is the increase of God. The whole organism is living.
HH Christ is the Head of it, and so I have to ask myself how far I am familiar with what the body really is.
JT It has an enlarging effect upon us, disposing of mere localism and nationalism. You get to see the [p. 192] largeness of the thing of which Christ is Head, and that in every part of it it is living.
Rem If one speaks of the stones as representative of the tribes, the two and a half stones were never taken back to the Jordan.
JT That is a saving feature, for they were left in the land. The two and a half tribes went back, alas! A very sorrowful thing, but the stones remained. Their children would never ask them about those stones; but the nine and a half tribes would have to give an account. They reared up an altar called Ed, a “great altar to see to”. That also was over Jordan, as if they might go over if they pleased. But God does not like my saying that I will go over there if I please, especially as I have already said that I will not go over. (Numbers 32:19).
The two and a half tribes are specially noted in the early part of Joshua as having gone over. They are credited with that. They went over in military order. But it says, “When your children ask hereafter, saying. What mean ye by these stones?” those who were there would be obliged to give an account. The children of the others would not ask, being absent from the land. What will our children ask us today if we are living like ordinary men? They would not have to ask us anything, because we are in keeping with what is around. It is the new thing they ask about. They say. What do you mean by these stones? Our manner of life and outlook are different from all others, and our children do not know what this means.
GJE Would the answer we give be “Always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life also of Jesus may be manifested in our body”? (2 Corinthians 4:10).
JT Yes. There is an evidence of the power of God; that is the answer. The thing that our children should see is the new life; that is what will lead to the inquiry; but if I am living, although a Christian, like my [p. 193] neighbours, my children will not ask me anything like that. They will not need to; what they see is common.
Ques Should we not expect these questions?
JT We should, if we are different from what is current. The children say, “What mean ye by these stones?” They are present.
Ques Would you say a word as to the bearing of the order referred to in verse 5 on this subject?
JT The hymns we have in our meetings, the good order we have when the breaking of bread should be, and what should be done before and after. I think we have had help from the Lord on those lines but that is not enough. The apostle was not satisfied as to Colosse, although he rejoiced in their order.
Ques Did the two and a half tribes break up the order?
JT They broke up the order God had intended when they went back. There are those who would do that now, and break-up the unity of God’s people in principle. Some of us were speaking lately about the heap Jacob and Laban set up (Genesis 31). Jacob set up a stone first, and asked his brethren to gather stones into a heap, and they ate on the heap; but it was an eating that meant they were to be separated: “The Lord watch between me and thee, when we are absent one from another”. They ate in view of being separated, as if they would agree to differ; but that is contrary to the tenor and spirit of Christianity. The idea of eating is that we should be together; the Lord’s supper is “when ye come together”, and the twelve stones at Gilgal mean that we should be together. They signify unity in life. The two and a half tribes broke that up outwardly in leaving Canaan.
JS That would not fulfil Paul’s joy. If we are all thinking the same thing we shall not sit down and eat on a heap of stones.
JT It would be agreement to differ. There was no idea of unity in ‘Galeed’ it was a mere heap. There were certain engagements between Jacob and Laban of a negative nature, but no evidence of love or a desire to be together.
EuR How do these joints and bands operate?
JT They refer to the saints in relation to one another, as we have been saying. That idea certainly could not be indicated in the two and a half tribes. “Joints and bands” contemplates our being together in life knit together in love. Each one functions in love, all under the guidance and influence of the Head.
WC Then do you think if we are out of unity we eat on the heap?
JT It is that sort of thing. We are content to maintain an outward fellowship, but there is no link in affection and life because love abominates separation. “When we are absent”; we do not want that, we want to be with one another; and I believe the Lord is helping us in getting together, but we must refuse the principle of agreeing to differ.
PL So that we are in love together at the lodging place; and the love we enjoy there will move us on to love’s own home.
JT Quite: “The place, O Lord, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in”, (Exodus 15:17).
CHW How do the joints and bands help in regard of the increase of God? Is that in regard to the impress you have referred to?
JT It is an allusion to the human body. The different parts in the body all function for the increase of the whole, but all flowing out from holding the head. The use of the word ‘body’ shews the marvellous result the death of Christ contemplated the nearness, the intelligence, the innate sympathy existing among the saints. The church thus the acme of God’s work.
CHW I mean in regard to the increase of God.
JT It is the idea of the growth of the body. All the [p. 195] members of the body are essential to a regular growth. The increase of God fits in with what we are saying in regard of divine impress. It is normal growth through His gracious work in us.
JJ So it is not the assembly in its abnormal broken state of things, but more the work of God proceeding in a spiritual way. The broken state of things is a very practical difficulty to the realisation of what you have been saying.
JT It is, but it is well to have the right thought, and if there is a little bit of life amongst us, to remove everything that would not help it forward. We must not Stop even with order, for there is much ahead, and so there must be vitality in the members, all working in love.
FHB There is a danger of stopping with order and making too much of it.
GWW When we think of the tremendous impulse all this would give to the testimony, we can understand how the god of this world would seek to induce idleness in our souls, so that we do not move on into it. There can be no real true answer to God’s thought at the present time, unless we do move on into this.
JT That is the great idea of God in Ephesians. Joseph is the great end reached in the blessing of the tribes in (Genesis 49) and (Deuteronomy 33). In Genesis Jacob’s blessing is secured to every one of the tribes in spite of adverse conditions; whereas in Deuteronomy all is in the full current of the Spirit of God; the flesh is not in view at all. There is a current in (Deuteronomy 33) which secures the blessing in power; whereas there is a current against it contemplated in Genesis; but Joseph is reached in both cases. In Genesis, “From thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel”, but in Deuteronomy you have the two sons of Joseph mentioned. “These are the myriads of Ephraim, and these are the thousands of Manasseh”. That is the saints as “in Christ”. You get the full thought of God, therefore, [p. 196] in Joseph.
HH Do you think in Deuteronomy we have what is suggestive of the possibilities for the present moment “Let Reuben live”, “Let Asher be blessed with children”, etc.?
JT Yes; the chapter referred to gives us the variety of features effected by the Spirit in the saints. It involves the unity of the Spirit.
Ques Is the objective you have referred to in (Ephesians 4) “the increase of the body to its self-building up in love”?
JT Quite; that is the effect of holding the head. Then there is the impress of God which comes in here, in chapter 3. It is the idea of image in the way of intelligence, the kind of intelligence, the renewal of full knowledge: “Renewed into full knowledge according to the image of him that has created him”. The idea is that all mere human knowledge is shut out; it is “renewed into full knowledge according to the image of him that has created him”; it is that kind of knowledge.
JJ “The stone of Israel” is the head of the corner, Christ crowns everything in that way.
MWB Do you mean the mind is impressed with what is presented to us of God, in Christ, as the image of God?
JT That is what I understand: “Him that created him” would refer to Christ, God being there, according to the Colossian view point.
MWB And what is impressed is altogether different from anything that has ever preceded it.
JT That is the idea, because ‘renewed’ is what is different, as not known before. So we are not marked by ordinary human intelligence, but by a new kind altogether; the saints are marked off in that kind of knowledge.
Ques Does a comparison with the similar expression in Ephesians help, where the new man is an entirely new [p. 197] creation?
JT It does. You have a kind of knowledge that shuts out national distinctions and all distinctions that men know in this world. It is a different thing from anything that men know; the world is not built up on that at all; it is built up on the idea of nations and men and women, and the like social distinctions. The knowledge marking the new man is different; and that will bring out reproach. But you have the image of the Creator, that is the character of the new man. We have different creations, but this is the Creator of the new man; for the new man is a creation.
JJ Would you say from verse 12 it is likeness rather than image?
JT Quite; in detail it is what you put on.
Ques Why do you think it says, “the things which are above”, rather than the Person of Christ?
JT It is assumed that the Person of Christ is already in your heart, and you are brought into correspondence with Him, which is chapter 2, but I think the “things above” mean the whole, domain into which we are brought. Moses looked into the land and spoke of its different features: “That goodly mountain, and Lebanon”. The Holy Spirit having come out, brings a knowledge of those things, the things above; that is, the whole domain into which Christ has entered: “Things which eye has not seen, and ear not heard, and which have not come into man’s heart, which God has prepared for them that love him, but God has revealed to us by his Spirit”. (1 Corinthians 2:9,10).
Rem I have often thought we might find that verse very difficult to define and say what things were there.
JT God has prepared things for those who love Him: “Things which eye has not seen and ear not heard”. God takes account of what we are, and prepares things for us. I believe what Moses spoke of indicates what the place is, and our Moses is the Spirit, in that sense. The twelve spies went up and brought down [p. 198] evidence of the fruit of the land; but the two spies of Joshua brought Sack evidence of the kind of life that was there; they brought back tidings of Rahab, which was in keeping with the fruit of Eshcol. The twelve spies explored the whole land, and the grapes of Eshcol indicated its fruitfulness. The One who brings tidings to us is the Holy Spirit who “searches all things, even the depths of God”. What a domain of things He brings into view for us!
MWB Do you think that is why the word “things above” is used and not “things in heaven”?
JT Yes; elevation and greatness generally: “If therefore ye have been raised with the Christ, seek the things which are above, where the Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God”. The things on the earth are thus eclipsed.
ASL “Not on things on the earth”; it is over against that. There are things above and things on the earth.
FHB And the things are not something separate or apart from Christ; they all centre in Him.
GWW Is it the same thought in Galatians, “Jerusalem above ... which is our mother”, that from which we derive character?
JT Yes. Then we have to notice (Hebrews 12) “Ye have come to mount Zion; and to the city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem; and to myriads of angels, the universal gathering; and to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven; and to God, judge of all; and to the spirits of just men made perfect; and to Jesus, mediator of a new covenant; and to the blood of sprinkling, speaking better than Abel”. They are all above.
WC There are things from beneath. The last few verses of chapter 2 would be in keeping with these; what is of Satan.
HES Are the affections connected with the Person of Christ, and the mind with the things above?
JT [p. 199] Just so. The word in chapter 3:2 is ‘mind’. It is a question now of intelligence. The heart is secured by the Person of Christ; but now it is a question of intelligence as to things above, which leads us into Ephesians.