THE ASSEMBLY AS IN 1 CORINTHIANS AND EPHESIANS
[p. 321] THE ASSEMBLY AS IN 1 CORINTHIANS AND EPHESIANS
1 Corinthians 1:1 - 3; Ephesians 3:20, 21
JT I have been thinking that we might consider a little the church, as it is presented in 1 Corinthians and in Ephesians. Corinthians gives the assembly in its local setting, and I thought we might compare this with the aspect of the assembly which is set forth in Ephesians and which deals with it in its universal and eternal relations, Corinthians describes the order governing us as coming together in assembly, which involves all the local circumstances. Ephesians is the goal; it is not local nor does it provide for the public aspect of the church: it sets forth the spiritual side or feature, into which we may or may not enter now; entering into it requires spiritual power in our souls. Of course, it affords instructions and exhortations corresponding with the exalted position in which the saints are viewed, but not of the church as formally set here as “the church of God”.
FSM Are you suggesting the two lines of thought together, in order that there may be balance with us as viewing the church locally and yet with universal affections and interest?
JT Quite.
JOS The Corinthian assembly involves the thought of men and women, but your thought is the possibility of reaching what is entirely spiritual?
JT That is so. In Corinthians we come together as calling “on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ”, which is connected with the public position. I think we shall see how the assembly is independent of human arrangement, wisdom, protection or help of any kind. What was missed at the Reformation was this feature of calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Old Testament indicates how men of faith first began to [p. 322] call on the name of the Lord, and how He answered them — as it says: “Moses and Aaron among his priests, and Samuel among them that call upon his name, they called upon the Lord, and he answered them”, (Psalm 99:6). The wilderness position would have been impossible apart from the calling on the name.
FSM What is involved in calling on the name?
JT All that is set out in the name. You invoke His help in that connection. The value of the person is in the name. It began when Enosh was born (Genesis 4:26). Seth apprehended in him a weak, mortal man, in whom there could be nothing for God without divine help. We find it continued in Abraham, who built an altar and called on the name of the Lord. The Lord will support us in everything to which His name can be attached if we call upon Him.
FSM It would be far more than a cry of distress? Even in the darkest days the characteristic is maintained of calling on the name of the Lord.
JT In 2 Timothy you “follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart”: that is, you are among the priests, Psalm 99:6. All matters relative to the public testimony are in evidence in our coming together in assembly, and we are there as those who “call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ”. That is the attitude we take up. We invoke that name, and we may reckon on the, fullest support, so that whatever is desired to be undertaken is stated. All that enters into the public position can be met there.
FWJ Does calling on the name of the Lord suppose His absence?
JT Yes, His name takes His place. Even salvation is in it!
WJC Does it suppose that we understand by the Spirit what is involved in that name?
JT Quite. Corinthians contemplates that [p. 323] the truth of the gospel is known: Romans unfolds to us what is involved in the name.
JRT Why does the thought of being “sanctified in Christ Jesus” precede the thought of calling on the name?
JT I suppose 1 Corinthians answers to Leviticus. The tabernacle is set up in Exodus, and in Leviticus God calls out of it. The idea of sanctification is in the call. God cannot have us in nearness to Him save as sanctified. I suppose it alludes to the reception of the glad tidings. The Lord had much people in Corinth, and the gospel of Paul ‘called’, them out. They are addressed here as “called saints”. Sanctification could only become a fact by the reception of the Spirit. We cannot expect help apart from sanctification.
JRT I wondered whether it indicated a condition on the part of those who call on the name of the Lord?
JT I think it does; corresponding somewhat with Peter’s remark: “If ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear”: “Be ye holy, for I am holy”.
FSM In 2 Timothy, departing from iniquity is connected with naming the name of the Lord.
JT Naming the name is profession, but I prove the genuineness of it by departing from iniquity.
JJ It says, too: “He shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified and meet for the Master’s use”.
JT Withdrawing in 2 Timothy, as those who name the name of the Lord, issues in sanctification.
JOS What is the thought of God in having local assemblies?
JT That is the economy of the assembly. It was never the divine thought that the assembly should rule and minister here in a collective way universally. The historic idea of general assemblies is contrary to the constitution of the church. I think that God intended the [p. 324] the saints to be known as a “little flock”; the Lord says: “Fear not, little flock”. He intended us to be in obscurity in this world. It is in this way that family affections and co-operation would be developed. It is said in Zephaniah 3:9: “Then will I turn to the peoples a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of Jehovah, to serve him with one consent”. You can hardly get that in a large gathering, for however large the gathering, the tendency is for things to come into the hands of two or three. The thought is that there should be small, companies, each individual being known by name and taking his own obligation. This preserves the warmth of family relationship.
JHT Is that why, in Numbers, each man was to encamp in his own tent and by his own standard?
JT Quite so.
JJ There seems to be a provincial idea in Galatians.
JT Yes, but the assemblies are regarded separately. An epidemic had spread there, and the apostle dealt with it in a general way. The whole province was affected.
JOS It does not say ‘the assembly in Galatia’.
JT No. It is “the assemblies of Galatia”. It is not the Corinthian point of view Peter wrote to the sojourners of the dispersion in several provinces, although not addressing them as assemblies. In neither case is provincial or general assembly function implied.
FSM In calling on the name of the Lord, is there ample resource in each locality?
JT I think that is what comes about. In 1 Chronicles we learn that there were more “principal men” in some families than in others. However large gatherings are, things tend to be in the hands of a Jew; thus the mass of those in them settle down as members of a congregation. Small local gatherings lead to the development of spiritual stature, so that you have a wider distribution of responsibility, hence greater development in personality and [p. 325] general ability.
FSM Would you not agree that there is a great need today for an increased number of spiritual men?
JT That is what I am thinking of. They hold things for the Lord. Increase in the number of spiritual men — or principal men, as they are called — is a great point. Smaller meetings promote their development.
Ques Saul of Tarsus had ‘authority to bind all them that call on His name’. Would they be known locally?
JT I think they would. He went into houses, to drag the occupants to prison, but he did not know what he was up against. Was he stronger than the Lord? That is the idea. Calling on the Lord’s name ensures protection; and the result of it was that all the assemblies had rest and were edified. Calling on His name implies all that is set out in it, which He is bound to defend. If we take up that attitude locally we may be sure we shall not lack. We shall learn what He is to the church, and this works out locally. Those who were attacked by Saul called upon the Lord’s name, and the Lord dealt with Saul. The Lord will help us, as doing the same.
JOS It calls for the spirit of subjection among the saints.
JT It does. What a thing it is for the saints to sit down and say: ‘We are under His protection; we may be very small, but we call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and He will not fail us’!
PL Would it bring the renown in which He has been received into heaven into the local position?
JT It would. We gather, in His name, but we also call upon it, so that the power is there: “There am I in ‘the’ midst of them”, He says. We ought to notice the pronouns in that particular passage — “it shall be done for them”; “there am I in the midst of them”. “No man shall set on thee to hurt thee” — that gives great independence; not fleshly, but spiritual independence.
WJC Is that the thought in Zephaniah — “The Lord thy God in the midst of thee is mighty”?
JT Quite so. You see in the Psalms how the Spirit of God looks back and refers to “Moses and Aaron among his priests”, because they called upon His name. Moses asked how he could lead and nurse that people. What could he do? He called upon the name, and he was answered. The whole people rise up against him, but they cannot prevail. That should encourage us in our local setting, which is our wilderness setting. The calling and sanctification marking us, necessarily creates opposition, and hence the need of calling upon His name.
JRT Do you get the principle set forth in the three Hebrew children? They invoked the name, and they came under His protection.
JT That is very good. In the account, Daniel 3, of their deliverance out of the fire their names are mentioned thirteen times, showing what they were to God. But how have they been developed? It is by calling on the name of the Lord, and He is there to be called upon.
JHT Is that why certain names are mentioned at the beginning of Acts 13?
JT Exactly. The point is to bring out the highest features in the place, and so the names are mentioned.
JJ What is to happen in a local company when the numbers get too large?
JT I think there is a great snare in large numbers. Of course, you rejoice to see a large number of saints together, but let there be such an ordering that calling on the name is necessary! A large number is apt to be Self-supporting. Little gatherings feel their dependence more: they need the Lord and are conscious of it.
JJ What should be the guide in splitting up?
JT I think the cup, helps to determine the size. All should drink out of the one cup. The Lord fed the multitude, but they were set down in fifties. Obadiah hid a hundred prophets by fifty in a cave, 1 Kings 18:4.
JOS Things have been hindered, perhaps, by the thought that there should be a principal [p. 327] man.
JT In Matthew 18 we have “two of you” and two or three gathered together in the Lord’s name.
FSM It is not only calling on the Lord, but calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
JT It is the public collective position that is in view: He has put His name upon us. The development of the principal men is a very important matter, for it saves you from clericalism, and would develop personality.
JOS It says of Onesimus that he was “a faithful and beloved brother, who is one of you”.
JT That is the idea.
JHT Was not Paul’s company made up of such men, principal men who had been developed locally?
JT That is so: there were those in Israel who were “expressed by name” — principal men who could be called upon because they had proved themselves. I believe that works out in each locality as we call on the name of the Lord. The Lord looks over the field of influence and, as at Antioch, there is a development of personality with some. They are available for Him.
FSM Are not the younger men more developed in the smaller companies?
JT I think they are. There are gradations, and the Lord intends it to be so. When a large company divides the younger men are moved up, so to speak, in a spiritual way. It was never intended that one brother should stand in the way of another’s service or growth. The smaller gatherings would prevent this.
Ques Is Sosthenes moved up in the first chapter of 1 Corinthians?
JT I think he is very much moved up. He is called “the brother”: he had qualified in that relation. At Corinth they were cultivating their own names. If I rely on my personality as having given me distinction in the world, I am all wrong. Such distinction has no place in the assembly. Paul, Cephas, and so on, were used by local [p. 328] leaders to make their own name. We do not want that. If I bring into the assembly anything that attached to me in the world I am on that line. Personality is to be acquired within, in relation to the name of the Lord. Personal love to Christ gives us a right spring. If I am to have a name it is to be on that line.
Ques What is the thought, in Numbers 1, that the men who were to stand with Moses and Aaron were expressly named?
JT Each man had his own distinction, being head of his father’s house. He would be great enough to stand before Moses and have his part in general matters relating to public testimony. He would represent his own tribe, which conveys the local feature.
Ques Is that what is meant by a principal man, that he is able to stand up in that way?
JT That is so. The principal men have graduated into a position of trust in the assembly.
JHT Bethlehem-Ephratah speaks of obscurity, but seven shepherds and eight principal men are to be raised up, Micah 5:5.
JT I thought that in sending Timotheus to Corinth the apostle would convey in him the idea of true greatness. He had no one like him. There were being developed in Corinth certain names on the principle of the world. They were local leaders, who got their names by worldly, influence of some kind — but the names must be spiritually acquired.
ECT Sosthenes comes to light first in connection with suffering. Acts 18.
JT Quite so. It is helpful to see that all public-matters requiring the protection and support of Christ are connected with His name. We need His support and protection in the smallest matter: whether it be a burial or a marriage, we need to invoke the name, for they enter into the testimony locally. However formal a thing seems to be, there should never be the absence of [p. 329] power, and that power lies in the name of the Lord. Things should be done in the heavenly manner, and not in the current way of the world. In Matthew 18, after the Lord has referred to the assembly as such in verses 17 - 18 He says in verse 19: “Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven”. That is an immense thing; and it goes on: “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”. He is contemplating changed circumstances and what is in His mind is the persons as of the assembly. The personality of the assembly is already established in chapters 16 and 17. At the beginning of chapter 17 they saw Him transfigured before them; they should see majesty in the Lord’s Person coming in His kingdom. “His countenance shone as the sun”. Then there appeared unto them Moses and Elias, talking with Him, and heaven is opened to them and they hear the voice: “This is my beloved Son”. They got a view of heaven! The remainder of the chapter is to bring out how that would apply to them — “me and thee” — they were to be sons, verses 24 to 27. Two or three are the assembly from the standpoint of personality, not from the standpoint of material. Peter is the material.
JJ Calling on the name of the Lord would save us from any ecclesiastical pretension.
JT And from dependence on worldly support or help of any kind. The cathedral is pretentious, and it requires to be kept up. The world has to be relied on for that. But those who call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ do not have to rely on the world. If they have a funeral service they do not have to call in worldly things to make a show. The name of the Lord covers them. And so with a marriage. Everything public is taken out of the realm of what is current as accepted by the world; because we are calling on the name of [p. 330] the Lord.
JOS In China or India or in Europe the assembly would be the same, would it not?
JT Yes, that is the universal aspect. To connect public matters with the close of the meeting is to connect them with Ephesians. They are not connected with the Ephesian position, they are connected with the Corinthian position. What happens in the light of Ephesians is not public: it is in relation to eternity, announcements do not refer to eternity. We want to go out on that note, from the Ephesian position, because it should give character and colour to all that happens afterwards: it is coming out from heaven in principle. That is the idea of coming out. In Ephesians it is glory to God “in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages”. It is the assembly as a whole — we should seek to get a touch of heavenly things now, and come out on that high level. The divine intent is that the heavenly should give character to us.
JOS Like the elders of Exodus 24: they saw “the God of Israel”, and then it says “they saw God”.
JT The idea was that they should carry down into the camp of Israel an impression of heaven. There were seventy of them besides Moses, Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and they would spread abroad the impression they had received. The low level is where the Lord is called upon, it is the public position, where we face the world; but then there is the high level, and the Lord would have us arrive at the Ephesian level. The two things run together.
FWJ Ephesians 1: 23 is the assembly in the light of the thousand years when all things are headed up in Christ; the last verse of chapter 3 is the assembly in its eternal character in relation to the eternal state: “To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto ... the age of ages”.
[p. 331] Ques Does that involve the mediatorial position of Christ eternally — “in Christ Jesus”?
JT I think it does. We never, get beyond that. It is to that we belong, and it is that sphere God is operating. It is an entire mistake to assume that we are lifted into Deity. What I think we have to come to is the mediatorial sphere or area: whether we look backward or forward there is that.
JOS Today the local assembly is in a kind of mediatorial position, but in the coming day it will be the assembly in its completeness and glory.
JT Yes; it will have a mediatorial position then, too. So that the assembly comes down out of heaven as a benign influence, having the glory of God. We read of glory to God “in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages”; it is the vessel in which He gets glory eternally. It is an immense thought. I believe God is seeking to educate us by leading us on to the upper line, so that we shall not be strangers to heaven when we get there.
JJ Do you look on Corinthians and Ephesians as the beginning and end respectively of Paul’s ministry — the foundation in Corinthians and the chief corner-stone in Ephesians?
JT Just so: Paul arrived at Ephesus, “having passed through the upper districts”. Apollos held the ground at Corinth, Acts 19: 1, we may say, as Paul arrived at Ephesus. Ephesus was the consummation.
WJC What is the real force of glory to God “in the assembly”?
JT I think it is what God secures in it.
W.J.C. Outshining?
JT Yes, and more: it is what is towards Himself.
FSM What would lead us into this heavenly region?
JT The apprehension and appropriation of Christ in heaven. The Holy Spirit is here to lead us to that [p. 332] point, like the servant leading Rebekah to Isaac. What Abraham stresses is that Isaac is not to leave the land of God’s purpose. It is Christ in heaven in the sense in which we apprehend Him there now, and may reach Him there now. The rapture is the Lord’s action, but at the present time the power of reaching Christ is by the Spirit.
WJC Is that 2 Corinthians 4:6 — “the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ”?
JT That does not go quite so far, though the administration of the covenant would set you free in your affections. In Acts the Lord was received up, “they beholding him”. That is the beginning of the idea. They saw Him go, and it was said to them that He would so come in like manner as they had seen Him “go into heaven”. Then they went up to the upper room, as though it was an element which had entered into their souls. Peter went up, too, in Acts 10 to the housetop and heaven greeted him. “It came even to me”. The climax is that Paul arrived at Ephesus by way of the upper region, heaven meets us on the up-line. The lower line is seen at Corinth, in the public position, but in coming together in assembly there is the, upper ling before us, to which public things do not belong. Heaven does not need to hear announcements made they are for earth, so that you leave on the high level — on the upper line, with the riband of blue — you take on the heavenly colour, and go out into the world as heavenly. It is a great thing to be in a state capable of taking on the heavenly colour and going out into the world with it.
JJ Moses- face shone when he came down from the mount.
JT Quite so — and so did Stephen’s. He took on the heavenly colour.
FWJ Does the assembly in Corinthians give you [p. 333] the thought of responsibility; while in Ephesians it is looked at simply as the work of divine Persons?
JT I think so. Ephesians gives you the whole assembly in the light of eternity.