READINGS ON FIRST CORINTHIANS (2)
READINGS ON FIRST CORINTHIANS (2)
JT I suppose following after love here refers to the inside position.
HFN Yes. I think the brethren would be very thankful if you would give a little help in regard to the threads in this part of the epistle following on the Supper.
JT Evidently in the section from verse 17 of chapter 11 to the end of this chapter, we are occupied with what governs us inside as gathered. It is the assembly in function; not simply all the assembly come into one place, but in functional relation. Then we have the body in chapter 12, the chapter deals with “spiritual manifestations”, in connection with which we have the Spirit, and the Lord, and God, in verses 4,5 and 6; so fully comparing chapter 12. Chapter 13 is the power in a moral way for operation, so that we can function according to God; and hence following after love would mean that we think of it first, and all the time, as gathered together; for unless that be in evidence, there would be the tendency for each of us to isolate himself in the exercise of his gift. The large place the apostle gives to prophecy as over against tongues, in following after love, would be to save us from isolation in thought in our service in the assembly. It may not seem so easy, especially if a man has gift, as he sits down with his brethren to think of himself in relation to the others.
Ques What analogy would there be today between speaking with tongues and prophesying?
JT There would be nothing answering to speaking with tongues save in the tendency to isolate oneself. The danger that the apostle is guarding against, is the tendency to isolate yourself and bring forward things that might be intelligible to you but not to the company.
PL Would chapter 13 suggest the way we identify [p. 434] ourselves in suffering and serving love with the saints, in conditions which we may be called to meet with our gift in chapter 14?
JT Quite so. I think you may see many things working out, even a line of things, but the question is whether they are intelligible to the company, and whether you are sure that what you say will touch the normal spiritual intelligence of the saints. If I am governed by love in ministry, I will consider the spiritual capacity of the saints; and, however intelligent and intelligible what I have may be to me, whether I can make it so to them.
Rem The Lord said to His disciples, “I have yet many things to say to you, but ye cannot bear them now”, (John 16:12).
JT Yes; that referred to their great incapacity; but the assembly normally has spiritual capacity and spiritual intelligence; it has the Holy Spirit.
WC Do you connect this particular line with every time the saints are together, or especially with the Supper?
JT This chapter does not view the saints at the supper. It does not say, “when ye come together in assembly”, as in chapter 11:18, but when the “whole assembly” comes together in one place. We have to distinguish between the assembly viewed functionally, and all the members together at any time.
HFN There has been a good deal of question raised in regard to the exact setting of this chapter, and to what kind of meeting it may apply. It has been said to be definitely linked up with the Supper, but that can hardly be so, as you say.
JT I think chapter 14 is very general. It is certainly linked with chapter 11, for it is one section from chapter 11:17, to the end of this chapter; but I think chapters 12 and 13 are to show how the thing is possible, and in what a variety of ways the assembly may be viewed as gathered. This chapter contemplates gatherings which [p. 435] afford opportunity for the exercise of gift. It treats of the exercise of gift; it is a question of ministry.
HH And gift is to be regulated by love.
JT That is the point.
HH Would you say that one’s measure on that line, is determined by the measure in which one is formed in the divine nature? It could not go beyond that.
JT Quite so, you are following after love, verse 1. You are in the midst of the saints and love is supposed to be there. It could not have been in Corinth to any great extent, so it has to be described in chapter 13. That chapter of course would afford light for following after love; but then normally the brethren as together have some love, and it is a great thing to follow and develop what is there; so that you are not isolated as among them.
HH ‘Good to the feeblest heart’ — everyone would have his measure on this line.
JT And if I am following after it, it brings out the best that is there. There can be no profitable meetings unless we touch so to speak, what there is in the saints. In ministry you take account of what there is.
CHW You think then that the saints could be gathered together according to this chapter with a view to the expression of love in this way?
JT Yes Love, in whatever form it may be expressed, is the great thing; “The greater of these is love”. That is what will mark the assembly in heaven eternally. You want to get the best there is, and you do not isolate yourself; you seek to get at what there is in the brethren. You think of them in their church relations.
PL Do you find that in Elisha’s exercise of his prophetic gift? “Bring me a cruse”; “Fetch me a minstrel”; “What hast thou in the house?” Is he working on what is available?
JT Quite so. What the minstrel was to him, love in the brethren is to you. Love in the company is what touches you and sets [p. 436] you free.
HH You have to allow it is there if all partake of the Lord’s supper together.
ER Gift is subject to desire; is that an important thing?
JT I am sure it is, but it will be love that will desire the gift. That is, you desire it because you love the brethren.
ER We should expect more development because of that.
JT I am sure if any one sees the need of service, and desires the gift he will get it, and in the exercise of it the great thing to be aimed at, is to “follow after love”.
Rem You minister to that which is there.
JT You bring out the wealth there is. The Lord’s supper, being objective, is intended to bring out that and attach our hearts to Him, but the gifts that exist, as exercised in love, touch the strings of our hearts in a peculiar way and bring out the wealth that is there.
CHW In what kind of meeting can this function amongst us today?
JT The light furnished here practically enters into all the meetings of the saints. This is a very general chapter; it speaks of the whole assembly as come together. But if we “follow after love” we shall find it.
Ques Would you say that if the gifts are not regulated by love, they are used for the display of the persons themselves and tend to bring about parties?
JT Is not that exactly what existed at Corinth? But you are not to think of isolating yourself. If I sit down among the brethren thinking of my ability and my gift and of what I may say, I am simply isolating myself. I believe that is implied in the great space given to tongues here. That is the bearing of it now. It is quite right to speak to myself and to God, if I cannot speak to the brethren; but if I am following after love I want to speak to the brethren, because I know that normally there is something in the brethren in the way [p. 437] of love.
EJMcB Love is secured for God in the assembly, and it is to be there always.
JT The Lord intended to leave it among the saints; “Have love among yourselves”. The thing is there; well, it may be there and not brought into action, and one great thing in the exercise of gift is to set it in movement.
EJMcB You mean, rather than have a display meeting, you have a meeting that moves the spiritual affections of the brethren.
JT That is the thing; and you have got something that belongs to eternity, if you get the saints moving in that relation. Then, following on that there would be light and intelligence; but love is the great thing.
Rem The simple one saying Amen, would suggest that the affections are moving.
JT If a brother says Amen heartily, you feel he is touched in his inner being.
PL Is what is before us, seen in pattern in God Himself filling the tabernacle with glory, at the end of Exodus, and then speaking to the children of Israel, calling to Moses out of the tabernacle, in the beginning of Leviticus? The tabernacle being anointed would be like the saints steeped in love.
JT Just so. In the beginning of Exodus Moses is seen sitting by the well, as if that were the great thing, something of God springing up. If you come into a meeting, that is the attitude you take on. There is something there of God; the Holy Spirit is there. “Do ye not know that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?” That is the attitude Moses took up, he is sitting by the well, and in due course he administers all that comes out. So that from chapter 35 to the end, you have what came out in the saints, the heave-offering for the construction and service of the tabernacle. Thus the point in ministry is that we are working in relation to what exists. That is to say, the [p. 438] well is there, potentially, and Moses is sitting by it. The first touch you have of the administration of the ministry in Exodus, is in Moses and Aaron going and summoning the elders of the people, and Aaron speaking to the people what God spoke to Moses, and it is said that the people worshipped. That is the first thing, the ministry touches the heart Godward.
JRS Is it that Moses gathered the meaning of the burning bush sitting by the well?
JT Well, the latter preceded the former and would prepare Moses for the divine appearing in the bush. He had slain the Egyptian, but he now learns that it is a question of what God would do, something that springs up by itself. One may touch it and set it in motion, but the thing is there to be set in motion, and so, in chapter 35, after Moses gives the instructions as to what is required, it says that they departed from him and brought the things that were needed.
HH The closing chapters of Exodus show that the tabernacle set up, was all the product of mutual contributions.
JT Exactly. All was brought to Moses and he approved it, and as the tabernacle is set up, everything is in function. If it is the ark, it has the covenant within it; if it is the table, it has the shewbread upon it; if it is the candlestick, the lamps are lighted. Everything is actually in use as it is set up. So the great thing in ministry is to bring out what there is in the saints. Of course you bring in Christ and add to that, but you have something to add to, if you touch love.
JJ The assembly being there, the woman in that way setting forth the subjective side, you would expect to find love, and if you build on that you will surely get love. There is intelligence there, but affection seems to be the great idea.
JT I think that is important, and the minister being representative of Christ, would promote and add to what [p. 439] is there. There is that in the saints by the Spirit, which J responds to Christ as ministered.
HFN The exercise of the servant in regard to each J locality would be to discover this feature of love, and it would govern his ministry. He would touch different localities in a variety of ways, as seeking to discover what was there in the way of love.
JT That is what I understand. In appearing to the company in Luke 24 the Lord shows that He took account of what was there. When He went with the two to Emmaus He did not ask them what they had, they were in the wrong direction; but when He comes in to the company He asks them what they had got. “Have ye anything here to eat?” He says. The principle is that there is something.
JOS Is it that something that convicts the person coming in or is it the ministry?
JT It is the ministry that convicts the conscience, but then love is an immense thing; it helps you in what you have to bring out. The gift is to radiate the light, but then you get a tremendous impetus in the sense of love among the brethren. It is only due to them that you should recognise that. I should not think of the brethren in any other light; it would be discreditable to them to think of them in any other way than that.
Rem The distinctions in verse 6, of revelation, knowledge, prophecy and teaching would cover the ministry, in the divers forms of it.
There is great variety in view as seen in the simile of the pipe and harp and the trumpet, the first two having to do with the affections, and the other in view of conflict.
JT You have in verse 26: “Whenever ye come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation”. The apostle says in verse 6, “Now brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I shall speak to you either in revelation, or in knowledge,
or in prophecy, or in teaching?” This is how he would come to them; it would be the attitude of his mind if he came to Corinth.
Now we hope there are brethren whom God is leading forward; the need is very great and it is well that they should understand how ministry is obtained, whether it is got from reading what others say, or otherwise. Here we have the attitude of the apostle’s mind, were he to come to Corinth.
JJ Would revelation hold good today?
JT As regards revelation strictly, there is nothing added today. But the Scriptures contain things that I have not been developed. The Lord said He would beg the Father to send the Spirit, and then that the Father would send the Spirit in His name, and that when He should come He would teach them all things and bring to their remembrance what He had said to them. Now that is very important. It is not only what is in the Scriptures — the principle of everything is there — but what the Holy Spirit has. What a reservoir of things exists in the presence of the Spirit of God here! All that the Lord Jesus said, and not only that, but all His life well known to the Holy Spirit. “All the words of this life” is carried down in the Holy Spirit. Therefore, if you are going to minister, it is obvious you have to take al these things into account. It is a question of the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God. You get impressions directly from the Holy Spirit.
EJMcB Do you mean that Paul would have gathered up impressions by the Holy Spirit in the company, that he would make use of to the brethren?
JT He got revelations direct from the Lord, we know, but he had part in service in the ordinary way too, and would recognise the temple of God in his ministry, and the love existing among those he served. (2 Corinthians 7) affords help in this respect. There are two things that govern in regard to ministry: Luke says,
“[p. 441] Tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high”, that is, you do not have to move; it is a question of what comes to you as waiting on the Lord; but Matthew says, quoting the Lord, that you have got to go to Galilee. Those two things govern you. The Holy Spirit is acting from Himself, and He is concerned that what you are going to say is to be representative of heaven, and to be in moral dignity; it is not simply the Holy Spirit but “power from on high”; it is to be that. The other is that I travel a long way to get it, I see I must do that; exercise of soul comes in there.
HH I would like to submit something in regard of “revelation”. The Lord would give a lead in ministry amongst us, and that would be of such a character that different brothers in their different measures and ways would take it up, as for instance, light in regard to Christ Himself. You say, Plow do you get your sermons? Is it the line of what God is doing at any particular time? Your exercise is linked with what God is saying to the saints all over the world, at the moment.
JT I am sure that is important, and if you are representative of the Lord you ought to make it clear that there is plenty with Him. “Freely ye have received, freely give”. There is plenty with the Lord and He loves you to draw upon Him. He wishes it to be conveyed too, that there is plenty with Him, and that He so loves the saints that He lavishes His wealth upon them. As these things are kept in mind, there will be “the spirit of wisdom and revelation”, not exactly anything new, but new features of what is in the Scriptures.
FSM Would you say that there is an important difference between getting an impression from the Lord, and going to the Scriptures for light and help as to its development — and going to the Scriptures for something to say?
JT There is. The indication or impression from [p. 442] the Lord is the most important thing. And then the Scriptures. It is remarkable how the Scriptures furnish you in your service; it is very wonderful at times how the Holy Spirit brings things out; they are placed there to be brought out.
FSM As you get your word from the Lord the Scriptures become living with power on that very point.
Rem Moses got a revelation in Exodus 3 to fit him to go to the people.
JT He got his impression and that stayed with him; he had already taken up his position by the well, and from that point you see progress in the man. The women came to draw water, they filled their troughs and the shepherds drove them away, but Moses helped the women, he did not attack the shepherds, and then he watered their flock. Then he is occupied with the flock for forty years, and then Jehovah appeared to him. He led the flock to the right spot, to Horeb, and there the mind of God is opened up to him, and it remains with him. And then it is a fine example that the first bit of ministry you get from Moses, causes worship. It is not fine speaking, but the word touches the hearts of the saints Godward, and they worship.
Rem Would that be a prophetic word — as we say? I had a thought that in the recovery of the truth, interpretation has a very great place; in J.N.D.’s days a great deal was recovered to us in the expounding of the Scriptures, but today the word that is necessary and touches the saints is more of a prophetic character.
Ques John was directed to take the “little book” (Revelation 10); would that have any bearing on what you are saying?
JT It has. You might prophesy and you might stop as many alas! do. God uses them and they come to a stop It is a question therefore whether I am to “prophesy again”, hence the Lord comes out there as an [p. 443] angel, with a little opened book in his hand, which is exactly what we have today. As was remarked, the Lord has used the earlier brethren to open up the Scriptures to us, but the thing now is whether I take the word and eat it. The point is whether you are going to continue prophesying. “And he says to me. Take and eat it up: and it shall make thy belly bitter, but in thy mouth it shall be sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the hand of the angel, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth as honey, sweet; and when I had eaten it my belly was made bitter. And it was said to me. Thou must prophesy again as to peoples and nations and tongues and many kings”, (Revelation 10:9 - 11). It is the appropriating of the thing, and the bitterness of feeling that it causes in the soul as to what exists in christendom — that is what qualifies you morally to continue prophesying.
HH That is in line with going to Galilee; you have got to take up the suffering and reproach, in order to continue ministering.
JT And to have right feelings about things. ‘The little opened book’ implied something that was about to happen to the nominal people of God, and you cannot but feel these things. We must not be deceived by externals; we must remember that externals — big meetings and the like — are not everything; there may by an underlying state that God may expose, and that little opened book might disclose that there is something coming in in the way of governmental action. God allows things to happen, and though you know beforehand they are going to happen, they make you sorrowful and sober, and if you can feel things. God will use you again. I do not think God will use unfeeling people; it is the belly that is made bitter.
PL Would you say prophesying again is seen in Paul’s second epistle to the Corinthians?
JT Yes; he went down to the depths, chapter 1:8 - 10, before he [p. 444] wrote it.
JJ What difference do you make between revelation and prophecy?
JT As applied now, revelation is something you get into your soul by the Spirit. You are waiting before the Lord, and it is as clear as if it were spoken to you; and then you put it in order. Prophecy comes in in the way you present it, but in the presentation of the word you are with God and God is with you.
Ques Would revelation enable you to speak with authority?
JT It does; you know you have the word from the Lord. I do not think anybody should minister unless he is assured in this way.
JJ So verse 3 is of immense importance and very positive: “But he that prophesies speaks to men in edification, and encouragement, and consolation”.
PL Are the two thoughts of journeying and tarrying illustrated in Elisha? 2 Kings 2. He was determined to take the journey whatever it cost, and then he has to tarry for power from on high.
JT Yes, and there you come to another thing: “If thou see me when I am taken from thee”; he was to see Elijah go up. That is to say, the ministry as indicated in Elisha was to have a heavenly touch. It is seeing a person go up, that is moral, elevation; it is outside the range of men. The whole clerical system is within the range of men, but Elisha saw him go up; “My father, my father! the chariot of Israel and the horsemen thereof!” That is the thing. The power of God was there, but in a man going up.
Ques Would you say that the prophet would be very sensitive as to what was there amongst the brethren and minister accordingly?
JT Exactly; that is what comes out here at the end, sensitiveness in the exercise of spiritual gift and mutual feeling, so that one is not isolated. If one is speaking as an isolated person, he does not mind one bit how many [p. 445] there are there to speak; he is thinking of what he is saying himself and how well he is doing it; whereas if he is governed by love he is thinking of the good of the hearers, and if another sitting by has got something, he is conscious of it; he is so in touch with what is there that he becomes silent, verse 30.
Ques Would that bring out the two things in Revelation? “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies”.
JT That is a question of the hearers. They are often very critical, overlooking that the obligation to hear is there as much as the obligation to speak. If I do not hear, why not? I cannot always say it is because the voice did not carry. The exhortation in Revelation 2 - Revelation 3 is very wide in its bearing. I am obliged to hear what the Spirit says. It is imperative that I should hear; that is what I have ears for.
JHT Do you think we have the thing emphasised in Paul in Troas? There was the ability to speak long, and the interest on the part of the saints to listen, and then the love seen in the servant descending and embracing Eutychus.
JT The incident shows what latitude there is in the assembly, that he began to speak before they broke bread. I suppose there must have been a certain exercise with him; the necessity must have been there that he should speak so long. God is concerned that the breaking of bread and all that goes on in His house, should be in the full light of Paul’s ministry. He is concerned about what we are doing, but He wishes it done according to the light or principles He has provided to govern the assembly.