CORRESPONDENCE WITH HEAVEN
[p. 142] CORRESPONDENCE WITH HEAVEN
Luke 10:17 - 21; Luke 19:37 - 40; Luke 24:50 - 53
JT We were noticing this morning that the gospel of Luke has in view, amongst many other things, of course, that there should be that here in the absence of Christ that corresponds with heaven. At the end the Lord is seen definitely parted from them in the attitude of blessing, having led them to a point, that is to Bethany — well known to Him. Love and intelligence towards Him having been brought about there, He leads them to that point, and He was carried up into heaven in the attitude of blessing. He is blessing them at that point, as in the psalm, “There the Lord commanded the blessing”, Psalm 133:3. So He is blessing them there, and He is carried up into heaven and they worship Him and return to Jerusalem and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God. That is how Luke leaves the facts — the narrative, and it is to continue. At the beginning of the gospel heaven comes in first in a dignitary, that is in Gabriel, and then in an angel, for one unnamed came to the shepherds who were tending their flocks by night after the Lord was born, and a light shone round about them, and then in announcing the birth of Christ to the shepherds a multitude of the heavenly host joins the angel, and they praise God; they say, “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good pleasure in men”. Luke 2:14 Then they go up again into heaven. So that heaven is brought into view in a dignitary and in an individual angel, and then in a multitude — it does not say of angels but a heavenly host. Heaven is thus brought into nearness, and the shepherds, as the angels go up, go to see the Babe. So that in Luke we have the idea of heaven coming into view; we have persons coming out of it, and going into it, so that heaven is prominent. I thought [p. 143] we might consider these three passages in that light.
Ques Then is it your thought that where the Lord has commanded the blessing should be characterised by heavenly intelligence?
JT Yes; Bethany was marked by intelligent affection. They knew how to entertain the Lord there. There was a risen man there, and Mary who anointed His feet with the ointment, so that there was intelligent service. And it was the place of love, and there He blesses them.
Ques How would that intelligence be obtained?
JT Well, I think the whole gospel has that in view — not only intelligence, but priestly intelligence. The gospel opens with a man and his wife; she is a daughter of Aaron, that is, of the priestly family. Zacharias is engaged in his priestly service according to the order of his course and is offering incense. There is the altar inside, and the people are praying outside, that is, he is engaged as you might say, intelligently. But an angel appears, it says, at the right hand of the altar of incense (Luke 1:11), as if there were something required that was not there. Well, the angel was there and what follows shows that Zacharias was not really in the priestly state; he did not believe. He had been asking for a son, but he did not believe that he could get one. The angel announces that he is to have one, but he does not believe it. God would indicate that He seeks more than our service; He looks for the state becoming to priesthood. So that the unbelief of Zacharias brings in dumbness until it is fulfilled, until John the baptist was born. Then the kinsfolk of Elizabeth would have the child called Zacharias, after the name of his father, ignoring all this. They would have the child brought in on the natural line. But Elizabeth would not have it, nor Zacharias. He writes saying, John is his name; then his mouth is opened and he blesses God and speaks of Christ.
It says in verse 67, “Zacharias his father was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord the God of Israel, because he has visited and wrought redemption for his people”. Luke 1:67,68 So that he speaks immediately of Christ, not of his own son. He is thus brought into priesthood in a priestly state — full of the Holy Spirit.
Ques Is your thought that the whole service of any one that has owned the power of the Spirit would really be Christ; that his whole interest would be in either speaking of Him or presenting Him to God?
JT Then he has got substance. There is a passage in the Old Testament concerning Levi, that is, the priestly tribe. He has got substance, spiritual substance. It says of him, “Bless, Jehovah, his substance! and let the work of his hands please thee”, Deuteronomy 33:11. That is to say, a spiritual man has substance.
Ques Is it that substance comes from heaven and is for heaven?
JT I thought that. In this gospel the Babe is alluded to as “That holy thing”. Luke 1:35 It is the substance, the holy substance come out of heaven, for He is out of heaven. That is the thing that we are to have. Wisdom causes those who love her to inherit substance (Proverbs 8:21). You cannot think of Zacharias having anything really. He was in the holy place offering incense, but you cannot think of that as anything for God, for he was there in unbelief, and the angel stands at the right hand of the altar as if God would indicate that this is what He has in mind — the question of power. It is the right side of the altar.
Rem How different from Hannah. She prayed year after year, but there was no lack of faith on her part.
JT No; she got what she asked for and presented him to the Lord.
[p. 145] Ques Why did you start reading at the passage where the seventy returned with joy (Luke 10:17)?
JT To bring in the levites in their heavenly relation. That is an advance on what we are speaking of. The seventy had gone out representative of levitical service from the standpoint of Numbers, that is, those who carry things, and toil and labour. Well, they were successful in their service, but the Lord in His remarks directs them away from Numbers, without naming the books as to their teaching. Deuteronomy and Joshua generally contemplate the priests and the Levites as the same — “the priests the Levites”. The distinction between the priests and the Levites in Deuteronomy and Joshua is not very marked. Indeed those who carry the Ark are definitely called priests in Joshua (Joshua 3:8). In Numbers they are under the supervision of Eleazar (Numbers 3:32), but in Deuteronomy and Joshua they are the priestly tribe. That is what the Lord has in mind, to lead us out of the service of toil into our heavenly relations. So that He says, “Rejoice not that the spirits are subjected to you, but rejoice that your names are written in the heavens”, Luke 10:20. Now if you compare that with Hebrews 12 you will see it says, “Ye have come to ... the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven”, Hebrews 12:23. That refers to the Levites in Joshua; their portion is heavenly. It is in that way, I think, that there is correspondence here with heaven, not because we are toiling labourers, but because we are heavenly already. The clerical idea would set that aside, but the true Levites of God are heavenly; their names are written in heaven, and if they toil here, they bring the heavenly in, but their service is as priests.
Ques In heaven being prominent in Luke, is there the thought of our minds being carried there? I suppose when the Lord was carried up He carried the affections of the saints with [p. 146] Him?
JT That is the idea. You can understand how they would follow Him. I think that the closing verse of Luke 24 shows that they corresponded with what was in heaven.
Ques Is it your thought that this priestly spirit should characterise every christian? It is not only for a few, but that we should all be levites and priests.
JT Yes, the divine thought is for us all. But it is a great thing, I think, to see the distinction between the levitical position in Numbers which implies toil — the carrying of things, and the priestly position in Deuteronomy and Joshua. That is, in the land the position is changed. Our names are said to be written in heaven, and thus we are to represent heaven here in a priestly way. The seventy were engaged with their service — their success in ministry, and they relate to the Lord what they had done, whereas He directs them to their heavenly portion, “Rejoice”, He says, “that your names are written in the heavens”. We ought to understand that we have a fixed place there.
Ques Would that fit us for priestly service?
JT Yes; I see that I am heavenly and that I belong to the priestly tribe. There is much made of that in the types. You have in Exodus 2 a man and his wife of the levitical tribe, and then in chapter 6 their names are given. From them sprang the priestly family — that is, the family of Aaron, as if the whole tribe is identified with that family. So that the idea of a priestly family runs through, and I think Luke brings it in, and the Lord shows that the family is heavenly. In Joshua they had no inheritance on earth; that was the chief feature of the Levites. They were distinguished in that way. But they had a heavenly inheritance..
Ques The seventy were not to carry supplies with them. Would that indicate that they were to be supplied from heaven?
JT [p. 147] That is exactly the idea. As we were remarking at Belfast, the people were to serve God in the wilderness. That would mean that they should not draw from the world; in our service we do not draw from the world. The world is barren of anything that we can use; the heavenly does not use these materials at all. Christ has come by a better and more perfect tabernacle, that is, not of this creation (Hebrews 9:11). So that our materials are not of this creation; they are heavenly. And therefore there is nothing to see; earthly religionists have a great deal to see, that is Babylonish. But the heavenly makes no show; he has got things that the natural eye does not understand or see — the better and more perfect tabernacle, not of this creation. It is a spiritual thing.
Ques Would our names being written in heaven refer to sovereignty?
JT Exactly; God has written them there according to His own wisdom. You can understand how the tendency would be to rejoice in your successful service and never touch the heavenly. And so it says, “In the same hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit”, Luke 10:21. The Lord gives a lead there: “In the same hour”; it is as if the thing came into His mind, what God was doing, what the Father was doing.
Ques Was the intelligence necessary to this state entirely from God? There is none of the earthly intelligence in it; all comes from God.
JT Yes, all comes from God, hence if they were to serve Him in the wilderness, they would have to draw from heaven. Therefore Moses is taken up to the mount to be with God forty days, and God shows him the pattern. It is a heavenly thing. Sure enough the people had the material, but that was spiritual — what they were formed in. It is a question of the work of God.
Rem The Lord said to Peter, “Flesh and blood has not revealed it to thee, but my Father”, Matthew 16:[p. 148] 17.
JT That is the idea; it is the heavenly.
Rem In Luke 15 you find that there is joy in heaven. I suppose we are slow to realise that primarily the point is what is in heaven, not what is on earth.
JT Yes; I have no doubt that in the Lord’s referring here to their names being written in heaven, the whole teaching in this respect, Deuteronomy and Joshua, would come into His mind. God was unfolding in type so early the heavenly position of His people, and heaven can only be represented by heavenly people. That is why the angels are brought in in the beginning of the book, because they were the only ones there. But now the assembly is to be there. And so in Hebrews 12, we have come to the assembly of the firstborn who are registered in heaven. Now it is very beautiful to see that the Lord rejoiced in spirit. He gives us a lead. It is not angelic praise, but the praise of a Man here. That gives a lead to those of us who are men, for it is in men that all this is to be worked out. And so He praises the Father. He says, “I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that thou hast hid these things from wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes”. It was pleasing in His sight to do that. Then in chapter 19, as He enters the city, there is the praising of the whole multitude. It says, “As he drew near ... all the multitude of the disciples began, rejoicing, to praise God with a loud voice ... saying, Blessed the king that comes in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest” Luke 19:37,38. You will notice that ‘Peace on earth’ is left out here. In chapter 2 it is referred to, but it is left out here, because it makes room for the heavenly side of the position before the earth comes in.
[p. 149] Rem We might raise the question as to whether there is anything other than peace in heaven, but I suppose the thought is that the church takes her place and displaces all other authorities.
JT Yes, that is what is intimated here. Revelation shows how the heavens are cleared. In fact the Lord had said that He saw Satan fall from heaven. The heavens are to be cleared of all disturbing elements, according to Revelation, and thus the thing will be brought about literally. But in the meantime it is a matter of faith. The assembly’s place in heaven is anticipated.
Ques Is not the Lord jealous that even the levitical service should not in any way supersede in our affections the position to which we have been brought?
JT Yes, that is the point in chapter 10. Their service was very successful, and whenever our service is successful we are apt to rest in that, whereas the Lord would lead us into Deuteronomy and Joshua to show us the rest and dignity that belongs to us as of the levitical tribe.
Ques Would you not say that, taking the first day of the week — the gospel being set where it is — those going out do so following on what they have touched by way of the Supper? Do they not, as having touched the heavenly scene and all that is connected with it, go out in all the sense and dignity of that?
JT I think that is the order. So that in Acts 13 they were ministering to the Lord and fasting. That is the levitical heavenly side, and as they did that the Holy Spirit said, “Separate me now Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them” Acts 13:2. We go out from that setting, so that everything begins now with the assembly, the first day of the week.
Rem I suppose that touches the thought in Hebrews: “For both he that sanctifies and those sanctified are all of one; for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying, I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I sing thy praises” Hebrews 2:11,[p. 150] 12.
It seems to be like Luke.
JT Yes; it corresponds in that the brethren are brought into accord with Christ. He is not ashamed to call them brethren. The Father’s name is declared so that they are constituted to be fit to be with the Lord in His service Godward.
Ques Is that the thought lying behind the word ‘incense’ in Luke 1?
JT The incense was not really there in Zacharias’ service. The angel appearing at the right side of the altar would show that God was looking for more than that; the right side is the full thing. And that comes in in Christ. When He rejoiced in spirit, you may be sure God got that from Christ, and He was giving us a lead.
Ques Do you think that even when things are going smoothly, the Lord might give us indications that He is looking for more than that?
JT That is what I was thinking. We may have the order of meetings, as we say, right and nothing outwardly missing, and yet God may not be getting what He is after at all. He may have to come in at the right side of the altar and intimate that there is not just enough there.
Ques Is it not the great object of levitical service that the priests are maintained?
JT That is the thought, of course, but that rather belongs to Numbers. The nearer you get to the land in the types, the more the Levite and the priest merges.
Rem So that we get to a scene of rest.
JT Yes, so it is in the assembly. There is the toil side through the week, which is Numbers; then there is the land, and the nearer you get to that, the more the Levite merges into the priest. Really the Levite is, in [p. 151] a sense, higher as to dignity because he is a firstborn; not only is he of the priestly family, but he is a firstborn; he is taken instead of the firstborn of Israel. Hence Hebrews 12 contemplates the dignity of the levitical family; they are registered in heaven. And no one of them has any dignity above the others; they are all equal.
Ques It is the priests that bear the ark when they are approaching the land, is it not?
JT Well, in Numbers they would be called Levites, but in Joshua they are called priests.
Rem I suppose a priestly state would underlie all true levitical service.
JT There is a remarkable balance between the levitical idea and the priestly idea, though the dignity is in the Levite; that is the way the scripture views it. The Levite is a first-born; it is not so in the priesthood. Aaron had sons, but it is not intimated that each of the sons was exactly on the same level as the others. Eleazar had a distinct place.
Rem In levitical service today we have to be priests.
JT We have, but the levitical idea comes first; Aaron’s father and mother were the son and daughter of Levi, and he himself is called “the Levite”, Exodus 4:14. The dignity is in the Levite, but the state is in the priest. We are in a scene of unholiness and the like, and the state of the priest is to meet that. Aaron is called the “saint of the Lord” (Psalm 106:16); he is a sanctified one. That is what you need here, not in heaven. You need the dignity in heaven. There is no emphasis laid on holiness when there is no evil.
Ques Would the merging be seen in 2 Chronicles where it says, “The priests were too few, ... therefore their brethren the Levites helped them” 2 Chronicles 29:34?
JT Exactly; it would look as if they could merge, that they can merge if the state is there for it.
[p. 152] Ques Would that encourage us on the line of all that we are levitically, contributing to what we are in a priestly way?
JT That fits in with the teaching of Numbers, that in your toil as a Levite through the week, it is a question of labour. That is from the standpoint of Numbers, but from the standpoint of Joshua I am heavenly because I am a Levite.
Ques It says that the seventy returned and spoke of their victory over Satan. Is that our history through the week as coming into contact with the world system?
JT That is the idea of it. Having to contend with evil, you overcome in it, but the Lord would say to you, There is a greater thing than that; your levitical dignity involves that you are heavenly, and that is the thing to rejoice in.
Ques. That is our origin?
JT That is the idea; they were taken instead of the firstborn in Israel. The priestly family was really a different growth from the levitical family, because that family had to do with evil in the service of God in the wilderness, but primarily the dignity is in Levi. It is Levi that is dealt with in Moses’ blessing; not Aaron, but Levi. Deuteronomy 33:8 - 11.
Ques Do you suggest that in our levitical service it is a question of overcoming the world’s system, but that we are not to boast in that, but in our heavenly origin?
JT Yes; it is a question of the sovereign selection of God; He has written your name in heaven.
Ques Would that give you power, and a sense of dignity?
JT It does; it gives colour to all that you do.
Ques Is that how God finds good pleasure in men?
JT Well, I am sure it all works out from Christ — what He is. He has become a Man and men [p. 153] would come in in that way for God’s pleasure. But Levi is God’s sovereign selection, really you might say, Ephesians, for that is what it is. God has selected us in love before the foundation of the world and written our names down. That is the greatest thing. Now the priestly family developed out of that because we have to do with evil here; it works out in the types in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers — what the priests have to do in the wilderness where dead men and bones are. All kinds of evil have to be contended with by us. That is the idea of the priesthood. Holiness not only judges evil but repels it, and that is the thing that is needed. That is why we are called priests, that we can carry on the service of God where the evil is, in spite of the evil. But the levitical idea preceded that and continued after it because we are written in heaven eternally. The Lord rejoiced in spirit. Why? Because of the kind of people He was going to have in heaven. Every one of those names written in heaven would be delightful to Him. He says, “I praise thee, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that thou hast hid these things from wise and prudent, and hast revealed them to babes”. The “babes” are the levites — those who are going to inhabit heaven. We are down here in the business of Christ as reflecting the service of heaven. It says “Peace in heaven, and glory in the highest”, Luke 19:38. That goes on now. Then in the last chapter the disciples return to Jerusalem as blessed and they carry on this service — the service of God. They are full of joy as worshipping Jesus and they praise God continually in the temple.
Ques Does the necessity for priestly condition arise only because of evil?
JT It arises because God is to be served down here, that we are to serve God in the wilderness, and as in the wilderness the priesthood is brought [p. 154] into evidence. Aaron is simply a prophet in Egypt, but he is introduced to us later as a Levite — “Aaron the Levite”, Exodus 4:14.
Ques Is priesthood necessary for praise?
JT It is whilst we are down here. The priest keeps out evil.
Ques Do you mean the evil that is in you or around you?
JT Oh! in yourself. The epistle to the Romans shows you how to deal with it in yourself; Romans is to make a priest of you. You learn there how to deal with sin in yourself. But the dignity belongs to the levite. You are a priest because you are a levite. The priestly family emanates from the levitical tribe, and hence the levitical tribe has the pre-eminence.
The epistle to the Romans brings out the idea — the Lord Jesus rose from the dead “according to the Spirit of holiness” Romans 1:4. That is how He is introduced. In all dealings down here on God’s behalf, the element of holiness must be there. And so in regard of the christian it says in chapter 6, “Ye have your fruit unto holiness” Romans 6:22; that is, through righteousness. As practising righteousness, you “have your fruit unto holiness, and the end eternal life”. Then in chapter 7 you “serve in newness of spirit” Romans 7:6. That is the kind of spirit that you have got — “not in oldness of letter”. Then at the end of that chapter it says, “I myself with the mind serve God’s law”; Romans 7:25 that is how I come into priesthood. Then in chapter 8 you say, “Abba, Father”, Romans 8:15 by the spirit of adoption. In chapter 5 the love of God is shed abroad in your heart by the Holy Spirit; the element of holiness is brought in. Then in chapter 12, you offer your body a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your intelligent service. There you have constituted priests. But we have to bear in mind that the [p. 155] levitical family precedes the priestly and that holiness — the state down here that is requisite for the service of God, lies in the priest. That is what is developed in this book (Luke); it is the priesthood maintaining what is for heaven in spite of the evil that is here. So that they are in Jerusalem praising and blessing God in spite of the evil that was in Jerusalem.
Ques What is the thought in their going to the temple?
JT That was God’s contribution to Israel. It is not the upper room here as in Acts.
Rem It says that the priests bare the ark. I was wondering whether it is contact with Christ that would induce the priestly state.
JT I think you have to see how the thing is worked out in your soul; that is Romans. Romans is the groundwork of everything for the christian.
Ques Would you see priesthood worked out in Jeremiah taking the precious from the vile Jeremiah 15:19?
JT Just so. They are very few christians who understand the levitical teaching of Deuteronomy and Joshua. Numbers is understood, but I do not believe Deuteronomy and Joshua are understood. The nearer you get to heaven, the more the Levites and the priests merge.
Rem And your thought is that Luke gives us the Deuteronomy and Joshua side.
JT That is what the Lord would transfer your mind to in saying “Your names are written in heaven”.
Rem So that at the end, the little company seen here are already in accord with heaven.
JT I think you have got to read into this the previous reference to heaven. All the scriptural books are constructive; they work up to a point,
[p. 156] and in Luke the point is that there is a priestly company on earth maintaining the service of God.
Rem Not only are their names written in heaven, but the education has been so carried on in their souls that they are now found in accord with it, and the result is pleasurable to God.
JT And peace is in chapter 19. There is peace in heaven and glory in the highest. It is very remarkable that that should appear just there.
Rem That would be heaven’s response to Christ.
JT Quite, and I think that must enter into the last chapter, because they are down here maintaining accord with heaven. Christ had gone in; they saw Him go up. They would see what a place He has up there. Chapter 9 speaks of the time of His being received up. You would get the impression that heaven has a wonderful thought of Christ, and you want to have that down here. But you can only have that by a priestly state, and I think the Lord gave them every advantage because He led them to a point where the priestly state was already established, where they knew how to receive Christ and anoint Him. He leaves them at that point and goes up to heaven; then they go back to the city imbued with that spirit.
Rem I think the thought that all the praise that is secured throughout the book is gathered up in these last few verses is very precious. The Lord’s movements had produced praise and accord with heaven, and now at the end it is all gathered up together. I think it is very encouraging and helpful.
Rem The point towards which all was verging was Bethany.
JT Yes, the Lord would lead them to a definite point; that is what is in mind. It is Bethany, a known position. He does not leave them in an adverse atmosphere; He goes up from a point where [p. 157] love was known, where the heavenly thing was already known.
Rem Bethany means the house of fruit, so that there is fruit for God from that position.