MINISTRY BEARING ON OUR STATE
MINISTRY BEARING ON OUR STATE
JT This chapter furnishes an example of how ministry comes in relation to the state of the persons ministered to. The verses read take the form of a conversation, the Lord meeting either the attitude of the crowd, or their remarks; so that a reading such as this usually resolves itself into a word meeting the state which may not be known to all, but the Lord knows and will bring out the state that is current. “When therefore the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they got into the ships, and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus”, and the Lord says, “Verily, verily, I say to you, Ye seek me not because ye have seen signs, but because ye have eaten of the loaves and been filled”.
The crowd is over against the disciples, but then there is certain importance to be attached to the crowd in this chapter. The Lord takes account of it in verse 5, “Whence shall we buy loaves that these may eat?”. John 6:5 It was sufficiently important to give to them so that they might eat; now they are brought to the point where they could eat in a spiritual sense and they would be tested as to whether there was anything in them spiritually; the chapter shows that at the moment there was very little there.
Ques Would the provision of the five barley loaves prepare a state for what follows in the section?
JT I think that is the setting, the size and quality of the food; it will lead to the spiritual.
The crowd wanted to know how He had arrived at the other side. The Lord does not answer us according to our questions, but according to our state; He is not going to satisfy their curiosity as to how He had arrived there. He deals with their state: “Ye seek me not because ye have seen signs, but because ye have eaten of the loaves and been filled. Work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which abides unto life eternal”.
[p. 296] They did not see the spiritual thought. The sign was to lead to this result in the crowd seeking the Lord, that He might speak to them about the spiritual. He wants to direct them to what is spiritual. The signs are all to direct us to what is spiritual. It is important to note that they crossed the sea to find Him and they found Him; they were in earnest about it. It shows how far men may go in a natural way, because the Lord shows plainly that was what was moving them. It answers to what is abroad in christendom; there is enquiry about Him, people go a long way; but the Lord deals with the soul, with what is going on inwardly. I think that is what we find today; it is an inward state, and ministry is to meet that.
Ques Would believing on Him be the inward work; the Lord says the work of God is to “believe on him whom he has sent”?
JT That is what we begin with. This “Verily, verily” brings in something definite, “Ye seek me not because ye have seen signs”. Then in verse 32 you again have “Verily, verily”, which deals with the true bread. There is a “Verily, verily”, dealing with our souls, then another dealing with what is positively presented to us.
The definiteness of “Verily, verily” marks John’s ministry; you get it nowhere else, so far as I know. It applies peculiarly now, because of the want of definiteness there is; people are very indefinite and shallow. John’s ministry is to work down to the roots of things, to get at our state, and the need for the work of God. The work of God has a great place in John; here it is to “believe on him whom he has sent”. They had said, “What should we do that we may work the works of God?”. That is what was going on in their minds. Every question here is [p. 297] ordered of God so that the answers may be clear, so that we may see what they refer to.
Ques Why does it mention that the passover was drawing near (verse 4)?
JT It means, I think, that whilst current religious customs were proceeding, the Lord was not interfering with them; He was not really in them at all; He was pursuing another line. He takes up the new position of Galilee here and His disciples are with Him. The disciple belongs to this chapter over against chapter 5, in which the disciple does not appear. It is a question of disciples here.
Ques Will you distinguish between the movement of the disciples preceding the Lord crossing the water, and that of those who follow?
JT It is an important comparison. The Lord “departed again to the mountain himself alone”; and “when evening was come, his disciples went down to the sea, and, having gone on board ship, they went over the sea to Capernaum”; John 6:16 then the Lord joins them. That is their position, and they receive Him into the boat. “On the morrow the crowd which stood on the other side of the sea ... got into the ships, and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus. And having found him ... they said ... Rabbi, when art thou arrived here?”. John 6:22 - 26. The crowd were not in the position of knowing, whereas the disciples knew something about the movements of the Lord. It is the crossing over the sea here; that is what the enquiry of the crowd refers to, How did He come here?
Ques Could you say some more as to the barley loaves?
JT You have to take the loaves and the fishes. The sheaf of first fruits of barley, according to Leviticus, is Christ; but I think the barley here would be more the kind of material; we minimise the value of it. It is important to notice here the enquiry of the crowd. The disciples had additional signs which the [p. 298] crowd did not get. There are things that are public, but the disciples get additional things. They had the light of Christ walking on the sea and coming into the ship. It is full of instruction, and the crowd are all in the dark about it; but it is to their credit that they want to know how the Lord got there; but He does not enlighten them; what He deals with is the state of their souls.
Then they enquire what they should do to work the works of God. Moses gave them the manna in the wilderness. Then in verse 41, “The Jews therefore murmured about him, because he said, I am the bread which has come down out of heaven”. Then again in verse 52, “The Jews therefore contended among themselves, saying, How can he give us this flesh to eat?”. And verse 60, “Many therefore of his disciples having heard it said, This word is hard; who can hear it?”. Then there is a murmuring in verse 61; these are the things that bring out where they are, and the Lord’s remarks deal with these things, at the same time unfolding most wonderful things positively as to food and what it is in view of, eternal life. This chapter helps us in that it discloses what is in our hearts, where we are and how the Lord meets it. So that conversational services are highly supported in Scripture; that is what we get here.
Rem True ministry would discover what is in our hearts and at the same time give us that which would meet it.
JT That is the idea exactly. It may go much farther, you may get much beyond that in a meeting, but the Lord would always meet the state of soul.
What comes out in this section is the economy in which we are set. Moses represents an economy; but the economy here is that of the Father and the Son, the sent One. The Spirit is brought in later. The economy in this chapter is set in that connection, the Father and the Son: “Work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which abides unto life eternal, which the Son of man shall give to you; for him has the Father sealed, even God”.
Then in verse 32, “Verily, verily, I say to you, It is not Moses that has given you the bread out of heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread out of heaven. For the bread of God is he who comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world”. That is the position; it is the Father and the Son, the Father giving the bread, and the Son coming down that it might be here. So that the work of God is to believe on Him whom He has sent. The work of God is seen in faith in the One who sent Jesus. It is not the works of God here, it is the work.
Ques To what does the sealing refer, “For him has the Father sealed, even God”? Does it refer to His baptism?
JT I think so; the Holy Spirit coming on Him, that is where the economy began.
Ques Is the bread of heaven for satisfaction?
JT Yes, and what it leads to. It is the economy in time, it is the economy for eternity; the last day is mentioned five or six times; it is an economy in time leading to something. There is nothing outside this economy, which is a great thing to get into the soul. “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand”, John 3:35.
Ques What is meant by believing on Him?
JT Do you mean verse 29? That is a good question. It will probably take you all your life to get an answer to it. I do not think anyone has an answer; it is a matter for the soul, believing “on him whom he has sent”. It is not ‘believing on Me’. But this is the economy, the sent One here to carry out the Father’s thoughts. There are very few such believers. “His disciples believed on him” John 2:11, meaning they had believed before. Perhaps you think I have not enlightened you very much, but [p. 300] if what I have said turns you to this gospel in prayer, you will never forget it. There is a moral thought in the sent One; it is not a mere historical thought. To believe that Jesus was born at a certain time, and that He died, that is historical; that is not the point at all. It is a question of the moral movement, apprehending His being sent, “him whom he has sent”, such a One as that.
Ques What is the idea of the revelation given to Peter?
JT That, of course, gave Peter a great advantage, but the moral element was not in that; the moral element is rather seen in Peter’s remark at the end of this chapter, “Thou hast words of life eternal; and we have believed and known that thou art the holy one of God”. There is a man who has the idea of believing on Him whom He hath sent. It is characteristic.
PL Peter answered; others murmured. The Person is believed upon.
JT Well, there is the work of God. If you look around for evidence of the work of God, Peter is it.
Ques Is this living bread to build up spiritual constitution?
JT It is indeed; it is a constitution that begins with this moral idea, believing on the sent One; there is a moral element in that which is the foundation.
Ques Is the full thought reached in chapter 9?
JT Well, quite, the Son of God.
Ques Does Christ come before the soul as bringing in life in another world and another realm?
JT Very good; it leads into another order of things, and the man undoubtedly came into it, in a way. The point was to go to “Siloam, which is interpreted, Sent”. John 9:7. I think the moral element was in that man more than in any in the gospel, therefore it is the “works of God” John 9:3 in him; this chapter is really leading up to that, and Peter represents the [p. 301] result. I do not believe we ever reach a point where we have finished.
Rem There should be some result from this meeting.
JT Every meeting should add something to us.
Rem You spoke of conversational meetings. Is that the idea of a reading meeting?
Rem “Teaching and admonishing one another”, Colossians 3: 16.
JT Paul’s conversation with the brethren at Troas after Eutychus was resuscitated provides conditions for a reading meeting; it is conversation and communication. “The words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life” (verse 63); that is far more than the mere eating of the loaves.
Ques Is this to prepare the way for receiving Him, in contrast to “He came to his own, and his own received him not”? John 1:11.
JT Quite so. There is the receiving of Him here, and appropriation in a most solemn way.
Ques Referring again to the blind man, he went and washed in the pool of Siloam and “came seeing” John 9:7; did he believe on the sent One?
JT He would not have told you so; he just says to the neighbours what he knows; he does not go beyond that. He acts according to his measure, and John throughout is to show that whilst we are here it is a progressive, constant increase of light in the apprehension of Christ; you can never consider it finished.
Rem “I suppose that not even the world itself would contain the books written” John 21:25; he does not assume to have reached finality.
JT It is infinite. The idea of faith runs right through until the very last moment you are on earth. There are always fresh glories of Christ, always something to believe. “And his disciples believed on him” John 2:11; “these are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name”, John 20:31.
[p. 302] Ques Is believing on Him, and appropriating Him in His death, in contrast to merely seeing the light?
JT It leads up to that, the words ‘eating’ and ‘drinking’ are simply to convey the idea of appropriation. Eating goes further than the mouth, it includes the whole system, so that there should be assimilation. It is a very strong figure the Lord uses, and it has to be understood spiritually.
Ques Is working “the works of God”, the work of God in the soul?
JT It is the work of God in the soul; believing is the evidence of it.
Rem The appropriation that follows would be the outcome of this.
JT Believing “on him whom he has sent” is the moral element, and that is the foundation. You get the idea of “sent”, and then the Father gives the bread that came down out of heaven; He came down that He might be here, “the bread of God is he who comes down out of heaven and gives life to the world. They said therefore to Him, Lord, ever give to us this bread”. It is very much like the woman in chapter 4, “Give me this water, that! may not thirst”. John 4:15.
The Lord goes on to say, “I am the bread of life: he that comes to me shall never hunger, and he that believes on me shall never thirst at any time”. Wonderful word that! John contemplates the work of God so that we come, we move toward Christ and believe on Him. Again He says, “Ye have also seen me and do not believe”. Then it says, “No one can come to me except the Father who has sent me draw him, and I will raise him up in the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every one that has heard from the Father himself, and has learned of him, comes to me; not that anyone has seen the Father, except he who is of God, he has seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say to you, He that believes on me has life eternal. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness and died. This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which has come down out of heaven: if anyone shall have eaten of this bread he shall live for ever; but the bread withal which I shall give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world” (verses 44 - 51).
[p. 303] It is well to compare this with the Lord’s remarks as to His body in the instruction about the Supper in Matthew and in Mark; here it is His flesh, there it is His body. Here it a question of the believer coming into life, eternal life; there it is in view of the believer coming into the assembly, that is the idea of the body, it is the whole thought; Christ’s body is the full thought; so is the assembly.
PL Feeding in this chapter would take us out of the world; feeding on His body would set us up in the vessel of testimony in this world.
JT It would give you strength to go to the mount of Olives.
Rem It is not living in nature. You appropriate His death in regard of the natural.
JT The Lord’s supper is in view of what is collective, This chapter (John 6) is intensely individual; one himself has to eat, it is “he that eats”; the other is collective, there they eat together.
Rem There is sustenance and satisfaction in the economy.
JT It is the kind of food that leads you out of natural conditions towards the death of Christ; it is a dead Christ. We live by Him. The blood is separated [p. 304] from the body. We read this chapter, but then we do not take in the idea of a dead Christ; a most solemn thing; it means I come to that myself, that is the idea, that I have come to the separation of the blood from the body, the flesh; believing thus, to take up another condition in which there is another order, blood and flesh no more; the new condition in flesh.
PL So that in the crossing of the Jordan there is no suggestion that they crossed tribally, as they were set, there was no use for the tabernacle, it was the ark alone; is that suggestive that Israel crossed over individually and spiritually?
JT The tribal principle is in view, but it is only to maintain unity as you go over; the stones set up in Gilgal are a tribal setting but it is unity in life. This chapter leads to that, unity in life. I think the crossing of Jordan is more properly in regard of the land, in Colossians, and there you have the collective thought. It has in view that we are in the land, in unity of affection, unity of life. This is each one going over, each one eats for himself and drinks for himself; I am not legal in the thing; I am taking on this; the flesh is truly food and the blood is truly drink, and one never thirsts again. It has a satisfying side to it in the blood. It is the acceptance of the end of the flesh and blood condition; if it is ended in Christ it means I cannot go on in it, I must accept the end of it.
It may be said we still live in flesh and blood, but that is not the point here, the point here is life, entering into life. If I want to enter into eternal life, I have to accept the ending of the flesh and blood condition; that is by the Spirit; I cannot realise it apart from the Spirit; it is an abstraction, but I can only be in it in power by the Spirit.
This chapter certainly involves what has gone before. It touches on the old corn of the land, but [p. 305] His flesh and His blood is not the old corn of the land.
“I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God”. That gives the clue to verse 63, “The words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life”. The disciples get something that the crowd does not get. “The last day” is finality; it is the end, nothing can happen after that. “I will raise him up”, we die in the meantime; the Lord says it five or six times; it is the great point of the chapter. The formative work goes on while we are in the body. When we are raised all that will come into display. The raising up refers to the body. The point is the state of flesh and blood ended; another state called eternal life is entered on; that is the thing to find out. It is most profound. This chapter is a good basis for a Bible reading like this. The question is, what have we got out of it? You would like to carry the brethren with you in what you believe.
Rem The food is presented in two ways. He speaks of the bread of life and “he that comes to me shall never hunger, and he that believes on me shall never thirst at any time”, and then He speaks of eating and drinking that they might have eternal life.
JT The first is provisional hunger; He would deliver you from hunger and thirst, but that would be merely negative. Eternal life brings you into something wonderful; it is an out-of-the-world condition of things into which I enter by learning in my soul that flesh and blood is terminated judicially. He came down; He presents it in this way to make it good in my soul, that I eat the flesh and drink the blood separately. “The words which I have spoken unto you are spirit and are life”; it is not the continuance of human life; it is another life, but then this one must be terminated for the glory of God; I appropriate that. ‘Eating’ and ‘drinking’ is appropriation;
it becomes food in one’s soul, so that I pass into the other thing in power. I come to the end of flesh and blood condition. ‘The word is hard’, you may truly say, but faith understands. The economy runs right through. The Father draws to the Son, and the Son teaches. God teaches us. All that enters into it. Three divine Persons are engaged in it so that you might come into this great thing that God has in His mind for you; that is, eternal life.
Peter does not go so far as the full thought of the chapter; he just says, “Thou hast words of life eternal”, as if to say, If I want to learn this chapter I have got to go to that Person. We come into eternal life now, but it will be seen in the millennium. The great result is spiritual, we enter into it now. “And this is the witness, that God has given to us eternal life; and this life is in his Son”, 1 John 5:11.
PL Chapter 7 is the subject of testimony, “rivers of living water”. John 7:38.
JT Just so, one chapter leads on to another. One little crumb of spirit and life goes a long way in a reading meeting.