THE REMNANT (1)
THE REMNANT (1)
JT I have in mind to read in the prophet Isaiah, in relation to the remnant, hoping that the Lord may help us in considering the subject from the standpoint of Isaiah. What is in mind for this reading is largely that we may see how, in a practical way, we come into the truth of the remnant, involving generally the prophetic ministry of the Old Testament. Isaiah 6 is the prophet’s own account of how he came into the truth and became a messenger: a servant in ministering it. That is, it would be a matter of moral instruction in the first reading, as to where we are in our souls; and how we judge conditions in ourselves. Verse 9 of the first chapter has been suggested because it gives us the general position. A remnant is a sovereign matter. “Unless Jehovah of hosts had left us a very small residue, we should have been as Sodom, we should have been like unto Gomorrah”. The apostle Paul brings this in in Romans as developing the truth of the remnant of Israel. It is a very important verse, because although we must judge ourselves to have part in it, the remnant is the result of God’s sovereignty.
The verse in Isaiah 1 is outstanding. It is set there to govern the whole book. It shows that Israel or christians would be just as the world if God did not act sovereignly amongst them. They would be like Sodom and Gomorrah. There would be no remnant. There have been many nations of great historical importance, but there is no remnant of them; but Israel will have a remnant; and in christianity there is a remnant. Outside of these we can scarcely speak of a remnant. A remnant is what God sovereignly provides. He says, “Yet I have left myself seven [p. 215] thousand in Israel, all the knees that have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth that hath not kissed him” (1 Kings 19: 18).
HH Is it what God has for Himself here over against the great unbelieving mass?
JT The first chapter corresponds with the great professing system of things around, and in this verse it stands out that God is acting for Himself in leaving a remnant.
LES Would a sense of the mighty power of God for the protection of His heritage be conveyed in Isaiah’s name — ‘Salvation of Jah’?
JT Just so. Aside from that principle there can be nothing. Paul’s last word, we may say, as to salvation is that the elect may obtain it; “that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory” (2 Timothy 2: 10). It is the sovereignty of God, and for those who are chosen — predestinated.
ANW The apostle refers in Romans 9: 27 to both Isaiah 1, which you have quoted, and to other verses in Isaiah 10, saying, “But Esaias cries concerning Israel, Should the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, the remnant shall be saved”.
JT That amplifies what we have been saying.
Ques Is the government of God moving in relation to all the evil and failure? If it were carried right through it would lead to judgment as in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah.
JT That is what the world is coming to. The government of God is employed subserviently, in order that this great thought of God as to a remnant, should be carried out; the remnant is to be the nucleus of what is called “The kingdom of the world of our Lord and of his Christ” (Revelation 11: 15). The millennium will not be the product of any governmental dealings of God; these culminate in Sodom.
[p. 216] Indeed, it is said that the city, the characteristic centre of government, is “called spiritually Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified” (Revelation 11: 8). The governmental ministry of God, as we may call it, is provisional, and would make way for the sovereign work of God, the result of which is to abound.
WB-w When Abraham interceded for the righteous in Sodom, did the Spirit of God have the remnant in mind?
JT Well, Abraham interceded for the righteous. He had to do with a great war, and his part in it was to rescue the righteous, his brother Lot; which he did, but the righteous that he rescued elected to remain in Sodom and did not become a remnant. God had no thought of a remnant there. Lot had to get out; there is no remnant of that kind. The remnant is a sovereign matter; it is not anything of the world. Although there are christians in the world positionally they are not of it, and their responsibility is to get out. I do not think that even Abraham had the idea that Lot was any part of Sodom. Sodom was a thing by itself. There is no remnant at all of that.
Ques So that at a certain point Abraham ceased to intercede. Had he reached the mind of God in the matter?
JT Yes. The great thought of government is in Genesis 18. God was on His way; the place where He met Abraham was not the terminus of God’s journey. He was on the way to Sodom; that is, on the way to judgment, not to the rescue of a remnant. Whatever was of God, Abraham respected it, and God stayed with Abraham, showing great consideration for him, and He honoured him. Abraham is exercised enough to go with Jehovah; God is on His way to something, and Abraham falls in line with that; he is not making himself the end of the [p. 217] matter; for the moment it is judgment. God did not say anything, whilst He was under the tree, about Abraham commanding his house after him. It is when Abraham is interested enough to move on the way to the judgment of the world that God says, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing?” (Genesis 18: 17). God brings him into the secret of His mind, seeing that Abraham is already on the way with Him. He is taking sides with God; and then he says, “Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18: 25). He begins to speak about the fifty that might be in the city, and he goes down to ten; but it is a question of the earth and the judgment of it. That is where the ten fit in — the righteous in Sodom — they belong to the righteous, and however few or many, God respects them. So God did not stop at Abraham’s ten; Abraham stopped. Thus the position in Genesis 18 greatly aids us as to what we are saying now. It is a question of the world, and what God is doing; but there is no remnant of it at all; it culminates in Sodom, in evil; so that God has to destroy it. Meanwhile, there are instrumentalities He uses, and these are in relation to the righteous. He is the God of all the earth; He is the Judge of all the earth; He is doing right, and whoever is doing right, God is with him in this provisional way.
HH Would you say that God’s government is in favour of the righteous, as well as being against the wicked?
JT Clearly so. God is ready to listen to Abraham about the righteous, and that is comforting in regard to our prayers.
DR Would you define the thought of the remnant? The natural thought of it is that it is more or less a fag end.
JT As already said, the remnant stands connected with the sovereignty of God. As to quality,
[p. 218] it is essentially equal to the prime thing; it develops into what abides before God.
JT-n Do we see the sovereignty of God in relation to Joseph and his brethren? In speaking to them he said, “God sent me before you to preserve life” (Genesis 45: 5); and “God sent me before you to preserve you a remnant in the earth, and to save you alive by a great deliverance” (Genesis 45: 7).
JT Yes; that brings out the present position, that is, Christ among the gentiles. Joseph in Egypt was, in type, Christ among the gentiles, and is to be looked at from that side. “Christ in you the hope of glory” (Colossians 1: 27), alludes to that position and it is in relation to the perfecting of every man. It is this which God is set for; to “present every man perfect in Christ”.
RWS The moral state in Lot was not right, in that he goes back to the city after being rescued from those who carried him away.
JT At what expense and trial Abraham rescued him, and yet he is again found in Sodom, so that he cannot be viewed as a remnant; yet, he is called a righteous man with a righteous soul — a very important matter. He felt the state of things in Sodom day by day, but then he should not be there.
WB-w The principle of God’s sovereignty is one side of the truth, but there must be separation from evil on our side in order to prove that we are part of the remnant.
JT That is what we should see. That is how it comes about practically. The first thing now is to see the moral side. We get five chapters by Isaiah before he tells us of his own moral history. First we have “The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, kings of Judah” (Isaiah 1: 1) — that is the period of his ministry; we do not get such accounts in the [p. 219] New Testament. His period belonged to Old Testament times — prophetic times, so that we get the kings in whose reigns he ministered; but in addition we get his own history morally; that is what is of value now. It is not simply that we are in the mind of God sovereignly, but our own moral history is of great importance — each one has to look into that himself; that is chapter 6.
SMcC Is it not interesting that in Romans 11: 2, where we get the thought of the remnant, we have, “Know ye not what the scripture says in the history of Elias, how he pleads with God against Israel?”
JT Quite so. Elijah pleaded against God’s people; but what was the divine answer? “I have left to myself seven thousand”. Elijah was out of the testimony for the moment, but was brought back into it again. He came back into it at Horeb, and he is allowed to continue on. Isaiah tells us after five chapters what his own moral history was; how he saw the Lord at a certain time, that is, at the end of a reign of fifty-two years, of a monarch who became a leper. A very great monarch he was at the beginning; but he became a leper because his heart was lifted up in him. God was helping him, and he became inflated and became a leper. He entered into the temple of God as a priest, when he was only king. I think that is important to see. Isaiah refers to the year that king Uzziah died, showing how long we may serve and serve well, and yet become inflated and have a poor end. Uzziah was a leper unto the day of his death and dwelt in a separate house.
LES Would the four kings suggest what is favourable generally in relation to the testimony? Would it not suggest present circumstances?
JT There was good in Uzziah, and Hezekiah was a good monarch. There was good in Jotham, but Ahaz wearied God and men. So that the [p. 220] prophet to some extent had to serve under difficult circumstances. God has called our attention to prophetic ministry, but we ought to be reminded, I think, that it is usually under difficult circumstances. We are not always to be in favour, if we are true prophets. Stephen enquires, “Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?” (Acts 7: 52).
HH Leprosy refers to state, not exactly sins, which are forgiven. The thought of our state is important for us.
JT Yes. Uzziah became a leper; that is important. Another important consideration is whether leprosy is judicial, or whether it is the normal product of sin in a man. The first recorded case is judicial, that is Miriam. Then we have Uzziah here, and Gehazi, both judicially dealt with by God. It is a very solemn thing to be a leper judicially. Of course there is also the natural working of sin in the flesh. God brings it about judicially too. It is a most solemn thing, and that was the case with Uzziah.
HH Yes, that is very serious.
JT That a man should serve well, and then become inflated and leprous is a very great warning at the present time.
Rem The recognition of the sovereignty of God in connection with the remnant would always rebuke pride and inflation. The sense of being where we are sovereignly on God’s side, would produce deep thankfulness accompanied by humility, and probably deep desires to be morally suited to the position. God’s remnant would be morally suited to Himself.
JT That is really what comes out in Isaiah’s ministry. It is as he judges himself, and is cleansed, that he says, “And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?
[p. 221] And I said, Here am I; send me”. It is remarkable that that voice was heard. It is “who”. The moral side is in the forefront as this voice is heard; that is, the moral experience or process that he had been through, as recorded in the first seven verses. “In the year of the death of king Uzziah, I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. Seraphim were standing above him: each had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he flew. And one called to the other and said, Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory! And the foundations of the thresholds shook at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. And I said, Woe unto me! for I am undone; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts. And one of the seraphim flew unto me, and he had in his hand a glowing coal, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar; and he made it touch my mouth, and said, Behold, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin expiated” (verses 1 - 7). It seems to me that this is the great thought for us at the moment, as to whether we have been with God on these lines, because in the process of cleansing, we get an impression as to service. It is not something that we simply learn afterwards; we get an impression as to service, and the seraphim represent that, in this passage. So that the cleansed man is ready for service; the two processes are concurrent.
CDeB Is this much the same principle as in connection with Job? “... now mine eye seeth thee” (Job 42: 5).
JT The process is thorough. He becomes a priest, as we see at the end of the book, as a result [p. 222] we might say, of the processes he has been through. Jehovah says to the three friends, “My servant Job shall pray for you”. He is ready to serve, as the process is finished. Thus am I available to God as a result. I am cleansed, but the impression I receive in the process constitutes me a vessel suitable for service. The Lord on the cross brings out the prominence of God’s service in His thoughts. What He says as making expiation, and what He says as completing it shows He is ready for service — holily, of course, infinitely so; there was no need of a process there. He says to God, “Thou art holy, thou that dwellest amid the praises of Israel” (Psalm 22: 3). The praises of Israel are to go on, and He is to establish them, so He speaks of them on the cross. Then as having come through it He says, in verse 22 of that psalm, “I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee”. He is the Model; and here Isaiah is ready for the service; the need is great. In the presence of this wonderful account of the man’s conversion the voice is heard, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?”
JTJr Is the cleansing from the divine side here? It is a glowing coal taken from off the altar by one of the seraphim. The cleansing is sovereign, too, is it not?
JT Clearly. The seraphim are ready; they are occupied in service Godward, and ready to meet the need. Isaiah is impressed with the glory and with the holiness of the scene, and, thus impressed, he is ready to serve God. That is what we get when the voice is heard. John says, “These things said Esaias because he saw his glory and spoke of him” (John 12: 41). He is ready to speak of Him.
LES Would you say that, if we accept the judicial side, the seraphim are ready to serve us? They are in the service of [p. 223] God.
JT They are ready to serve men as need exists. Isaiah too is ready to serve; he comes out of this as a servant, as a vessel, ready.
Ques It seems that what he saw brought him to the realisation of his own state, and the state of the people; but it is what he heard that encouraged him to be ready for the service. Do you think that there may be many who have not heard the voice of the Lord, because of the lack of moral cleansing?
JT I think that is the lesson for us. There is great need for service, and thank God there are many coming forward; but more are needed.
HH This would indicate that you have to be sent. The emphasis is on send according to the note. “Here am I: send me”. It is not “send me”.
JT The Lord says constantly in John’s gospel that He is sent; and according to chapter 9, the work of God in believers is marked by the idea of being sent, which Siloam signifies.
ANW Why does the instruction centre on the lips?
JT In view of what we are to say, I suppose, because ministry is largely what we say. “These things said Esaias because he saw his glory and spoke of him”. He spoke twice according to John’s report there. In Isaiah 53: 1 he says, “Who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of Jehovah been revealed?” It is the sorrowful judicial side in chapter 6; the message that he received is very trying to have to deliver. It is not like a gospel message; it is judicial. In the prophetic realm we have to be prepared for that. The answer to Isaiah is, “Go; and thou shalt say unto this people, Hearing ye shall hear and shall not understand, and seeing ye shall see and shall not perceive. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears,
[p. 224] and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed”. That is a very distressing thought. It is a difficult thing to bring yourself round to the judicial side of the actions of God; you would rather have it the other way. That is the point in what God is doing publicly; we have to get round to what God means in it. We shall not be used in a prophetic way unless we get God’s thoughts and give up our own. You can understand how the prophet says immediately, “Lord, how long?” That is a technical expression of faith — “how long”. God’s ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55: 8), and cover long periods of time to reach an end, we have to suffer in patience meanwhile.
WFK Peter was part of the remnant of Israel. The Lord prepared him for his service.
JT Peter’s ministry is largely governmental. It is to those who are affected by the government of God; so that he says, “Beloved, take not as strange the fire of persecution which has taken place amongst you for your trial, as if a strange thing was happening to you” (1 Peter 4: 12). We must accept it; it is a time of governmental dealings.
APT Do the circumstances surrounding Paul’s conversion colour his whole ministry? Would it synchronise somewhat with the “Holy, holy, holy” here?
JT It would. He saw the Lord, as he said, “Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?” (1 Corinthians 9: 1). The link is there. I suppose he would never forget the impression; the idea of holiness, that the Lord’s appearing to him would convey to his soul. So that there is a striking link there; only he has to go into the city, which is another important side. He has to go into the city to be told what he must do. We must submit to our brethren to start with. I must be told what I [p. 225] must do.
RWS Were you linking this “how long” with current happenings?
JT Yes. The message is, “Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and blind their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and healed”. I think it covers the whole message; and, of course, covers the whole period in which we are now, in which this state fully marks the Jews. It is the passage the apostle quotes in Romans, corresponding with his last words to the Jews at Antioch, quoted from Isaiah 49. So he says, “... lo, we turn to the nations” (Acts 13: 46), and also, “This salvation of God has been sent to the nations; they also will hear it” (Acts 28: 28). But the message goes on to show that it is a question of the moral state of the nation here: “Until the cities be wasted, without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land become an utter desolation, and Jehovah have removed men far away, and the solitude be great in the midst of the land” (verses 11, 12). That is enlarged on in the Lord’s own prophetic discourse as recorded in the gospels; then we have the final thought of the remnant. Verse 13 says, “But a tenth part shall still be therein, and it shall return and be eaten; as the terebinth and as the oak whose trunk remaineth after the felling: the holy seed shall be the trunk thereof”. That will presently take place. The christian period is, of course, ignored in this passage. On the prophetic side it is a question of the Jews being back again in the land, and God having begun this work in a remnant, so that the holy seed is there. It is not there yet; you cannot detect it anywhere yet except in isolated ones who are genuinely converted. This prophetic word refers to the coming day when the veil is removed; when God begins to work again, and brings to light the [p. 226] holy seed. It is what was there before; it is not a new thing, for the holy seed remains.
The Lord had this passage in His mind during His ministry, but particularly towards the close when they were refusing Him. It is remarkable how often you find this passage in the New Testament, each instance showing it is judicial, the testimony being refused; this must precede, and then the holy seed comes to light again. So that the Lord in Matthew 10: 23 says, “Ye shall not have completed the cities of Israel until the Son of man be come”, also, “Go not off into the way of the nations ... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matthew 10: 5, 6). This ministry would run on, overlooking the assembly period, until the last days, “until the Son of man be come”. There will be a ministry fitting it here, so that the holy seed comes to light. Where is this holy seed? It is the trunk. It is brought to light through this terrible discipline. Look at the passage, “And I said, Lord, how long? And he said, Until the cities be wasted, without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land become an utter desolation, and Jehovah have removed men far away, and the solitude be great in the midst of the land. But a tenth part shall still be therein, and it shall return and be eaten; as the terebinth and as the oak whose trunk remaineth after the felling: the holy seed shall be the trunk thereof”. The holy seed is mentioned; that is the trunk; the substance is the holy seed.
LES Romans 11: 22, 23 would fit in here; “Behold then the goodness and severity of God: upon them who have fallen, severity; upon thee goodness of God, if thou shalt abide in goodness, since otherwise thou also wilt be cut away. And they, too, if they abide not in unbelief, shall be grafted in; for God is able again to graft them in”.
JT Romans 9, 10 and 11 deal with this whole matter, to reconcile the preaching of the apostle “to the Jew first”, but later to the gentiles, for there is no difference. The idea of a remnant fits into that section strikingly. I think we ought to see that the idea of the remnant is not something injected; it is a continuance of Israel’s whole history; Israel’s whole history is in mind. It is the substance, or the trunk. Job has a remarkable passage which fits in here. He says, “For there is hope for a tree: if it be cut down, it will sprout again, and its tender branch will not cease; Though its root grow old in the earth, and its stock die in the ground, Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and put forth boughs like a young plant” (Job 14: 7 - 9). The word “cut” there would mean a hand does it judicially; there it lies; “yet through the scent of water it will bud”, the life is in it, “and put forth boughs like a young plant”. It is very striking, I think, as confirming what we get here. The seed remains there; it is viewed as the same right through, although the trunk apparently had been dead.
CAM Those three chapters in Romans serve to show that the apostle had that seed in his soul, but it had to wait.
JT He would be waiting, I suppose; he connects himself with the seed in 1 Corinthians, not with christianity; not as one coming in after, but as coming in before; that is the remnant. Personally he represents the remnant before the time; using an “abortion” as a figure. In fact, he says so: “I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin” (Romans 11: 1). There was a remnant then, but he had come in before the future time of it; and it is well to consider the apostle Paul from that point of view in order to get an idea of the coming [p. 228] Jewish remnant.
CAM That would mean that the prophet goes through in his own soul the import of what he is going to say; so that he knows what the remnant is to be.
JT Well, you can see how feeling he is; and all this will be most touching and sobering to us if accepted. Isaiah says, “Lord, how long?” as much as to say, ‘I am ready for the message, but I did not expect such severity;’ it is a most serious message, “... how long?” He felt for his people.
APT Romans 11 speaks about being grafted in. What is the difference between that, and the seed that is there?
JT The word “grafted” there means that we gentiles are brought into something in which we were not before. It is the public position of the assembly. We are linked on with the substance of what was there; what was in Abraham. We are grafted into the public position. The gentiles will be cut off, but all Israel will be saved. That does not mean every Israelite, but the nation will be saved.
FHL Would the principle be seen in the people themselves at the beginning? The carcases of some fell in the wilderness.
JT Yes. The whole nation came into Canaan. It is a remarkable thing that the second numbering is almost identical with the first; the same number go in as came out, although those in the first numbering almost all fell in the wilderness. The link is in Joshua and Caleb; the substance is always there; it goes right through; and even if it comes down to the gentiles now, it is morally the same.
LES Paul says, in his testimony to Agrippa, “And now I stand to be judged because of the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers, to which our whole twelve tribes serving incessantly day and night hope to arrive” (Acts. 26: 6, [p. 229] 7).
JT Quite so. He identified himself with Israel from its source.
ABP Do we see the remnant in Matthew 26 at Bethany, in the house of Simon the leper?
JT Yes. Simon was not a leper then, but what he had been was owned; he did not die a leper; he was fit for fellowship. There was a fine scope in his house for ministering to Christ; there the woman anointed His head. The synoptic gospels do not give her name; it is to bring out the importance of the act, and to show the scope for it in the leper’s house.
WB-w In this case the trunk remained. In the case of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream that Daniel interpreted, the stump remains. In this case it is the trunk. Is there some difference?
JT There is a difference. It is “felling” here — it is “whose trunk remaineth after the felling”. In Daniel it is not what is felled, it is the root, the stump held under bands of iron and brass. It is God preserving the root substance of Nebuchadnezzar during the seven years of his discipline. It is the same idea, however.
WB-w You mean Nebuchadnezzar was converted afterward?
JT Well, he was probably divinely affected before, but he had to go through all this so that he would have a man’s heart. There was something there that God would protect during the period of his affliction and discipline. It is kept with a band. It is not allowed to grow. There is the suggestion that as subjected to correction one is not marked by growth. Correction is a negative thought; formation is a positive thing. The stump is kept with bands of iron; the chastening goes on; after that he stands up, and has a man’s heart.
WB-w I get help from that, because I see that God is going on. He is working out great [p. 230] things, as we see in the conversion of a great king like Nebuchadnezzar.
JT Quite so. It is a consideration for any of us under discipline, if there is anything of God in the stump, or root; the disciplinary period is for the reduction of what hinders growth.
WB-w Has all that to do with the ways of God on the earth?
JT Here it is after the felling; after the tree is cut down. As Job says, “yet through the scent of water it will bud”. As God begins to work in Israel there will be a response to the truth; that is what is meant; and it bears fruit immediately.
RWS Over against that truth, it says, “and if a tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be” (Ecclesiastes 11: 3).
JT There is no life in that thought at all. It falls, being cut down would be an act of God.
APT In Daniel 9: 26, it says, “And after the sixty-two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, and shall have nothing”. How does this truth apply in relation to that scripture?
JT “After the sixty-two weeks shall Messiah be cut off”. That was when Christ died. Therefore, it is already fulfilled up to that point and we view it thus as only one half-week to be fulfilled. All the prophetic truth that still remains unfulfilled must enter into that week, but Christ is cut off and has nothing from the Jewish standpoint. Of course, He has the assembly, but that is another matter. That does not enter into these weeks at all.
HH When does that one half-week come in?
JT In one sense, it may be a week. Christ’s ministry entered into the first half because it is “after the sixty-two weeks” (which added to the seven weeks make sixty-nine weeks) He is cut off. Sixty-nine weeks therefore have passed and that leaves only one. The Lord’s ministry enters into this, covering at least the first half, according to the facts given in the gospels. But other happenings, as Daniel 9: 27 shows, enter into the week. But the second half is stressed in the book of Daniel and in the book of Revelation. “... a time, and times, and half a time ...” (Revelation 12: 14). The assembly will not be here to see it. We may see preliminary conditions that point to it, but we are to be kept out of all that enters into it. The Lord promises Philadelphia they shall not see it: “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee out of the hour of trial which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth” (Revelation 3: 10).
ANW Do you think we may not see the beginning?
JT Not strictly.
WFK Is this “holy seed” carried forward in the assembly?
JT Well, it is; it is in the remnant. Paul speaks of himself as of the remnant, so that it was there in him. We may see it in Paul’s history. He alludes to it, saying, “And last of all, as to an abortion, he appeared to me also” (1 Corinthians 15: 8). Also that there should be “a delineation of those about to believe on him to life eternal” (1 Timothy 1: 16).
AEH Do you think the fact that the Messiah was cut off in the last week might suggest that some part of the burdens of the first half of that week may come in before the assembly leaves?
JT I do not think so. We see conditions very like it now, but held in check. There will be a covenant between the “prince that shall come” and the many of the Jews for one week, and this certainly has not taken place. Gabriel’s account to Daniel makes it plain that the ministry of Christ [p. 232] would be in the first half of the week, because He was cut off after the sixty-ninth week.
W In Matthew, John the baptist speaks of the axe being laid to the root of the tree.
JT It is trees there. “And already the axe is applied to the root of the trees; every tree therefore not producing good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire. I indeed baptise you with water to repentance, but he that comes after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not fit to bear; he shall baptise you with the Holy Spirit and fire; whose winnowing fan is in his hand, and he shall thoroughly purge his threshing-floor, and shall gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable” (Matthew 3: 10 - 12). The trees there are unregenerate people that are of no value; they are to be burned. There is no idea of a stump left.
WB-w Malachi refers to the wicked being as stubble. There is no stump left there. It has to be burned. He refers to a remnant coming in, but speaks of the wicked being as stubble to be burned, (Malachi 4:1).
JT That corresponds with what our brother mentioned before; the axe is laid to the root of the trees, and what is not good is cut down and burned. There will be a terrible time in Palestine in the last days — attack after attack. The Lord alludes to that especially. It is the time of Jacob’s trouble. There has never been any equal to it, nor will there be. “And if those days had not been cut short, no flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut short” (Matthew 24: 22). It is the pressure God puts them through to bring out reality; because He is not content with anything else but what corresponds with Christ.
The Lord says of Paul, “I will shew to him how much he must suffer for my name”. We should consider the extent of his suffering. You marvel [p. 233] how he could stand it, but it is all to bring out the marvellous enduring quality that was there.
SMcC Is it not interesting, that whereas the history in Daniel 9 is spoken of in weeks, the testimony of the witnesses in Revelation 11 is spoken of as in days; as if God preserves their special testimony in an extended kind of way?
JT That is a good way of putting it; day after day; what they were under His eye; the same as Christ in measure. What Christ was under God’s eye, day after day, these two witnesses will be under His eye. The saints are under God’s eye peculiarly in days of pressure.
HH No two days are the same in the eye of heaven.
JT In the gospels you read, “Days are coming, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and shall not see it” (Luke 17: 22).
ANW The half means that one half belongs to the other half.
JT Spiritually the last half is the filling out of the first. The Lord’s ministry gives character to the whole week, I suppose.
JHE Paul speaks of filling out sufferings.
JT Yes. “Now, I rejoice in sufferings for you, and I fill up that which is behind of the tabulations of Christ in my flesh, for his body, which is the assembly” (Colossians 1: 24).