WHAT IT IS TO BE HERE FOR GOD
[p. 12] WHAT IT IS TO BE HERE FOR GOD
Hebrews 2:11 - 13; John 4:19 - 26; Ephesians 3:20,21
RSS What we had before us in the afternoon, and what was in my mind as to the subject of our two meetings was what it is to be here for God. There was Noah’s sacrifice and God smelling a sweet savour. Noah offered of every clean beast and of every clean fowl, which had been carried through in the ark. This would show that that which was most precious (in view of the cleansed scene which had now to be filled with living creatures) was offered to God, being really more important as having Him in view. Doubtless with that burnt-offering in view Noah had taken seven pairs of every clean beast and of every clean fowl, and only one pair of the unclean; thus what was due to God was contemplated when going into the ark. Then we considered Abraham offering his son Isaac, and God’s intense appreciation of what he had done — that he had not spared his only son. God spoke to him twice from heaven, the second time blessing him limitlessly — his seed should be as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the sea shore, and in it, all nations of the earth should be blessed. It suggests therefore not only what God received, but the response which He gives when what is His due has been rendered to Him.
Then we looked at a few verses at the end of Exodus relative to the morning and evening sacrifice the continual burnt-offering in connection with which it was God’s pleasure to dwell with Israel and to be their God.
It was thought that tonight we might look at the New Testament where what is due to God is largely comprehended in the word ‘worship’. Here in Hebrews where the Lord says, “In the midst of the assembly will I sing praise unto thee”,
[p. 13] we have the Lord Himself as the Worshipper. One has been struck with this expression in one of Mr. Bevir’s hymns, and it opens up a field of thought in connection with the Lord as the Worshipper — speaking of Him in that way as Man. We rejoice to join in “The praises led by thy beloved”. (94:3). What a delight it is to God, and what a privilege for us!
In John 4, we have the Lord speaking of what the Father seeks, addressing Himself to a woman who was an outcast, and yet the Lord comes through Samaria to meet her. She was one seeking satisfaction in an utterly wrong direction, and the Lord, in His own marvellous way, teaches her that in her seeking it was only to thirst again, but that “Whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst for ever”. He opens up to her the region of satisfied desire, and that is largely found in connection with God revealed to us as Father. One of the disciples said, “Lord, shew us the Father and it sufficeth us”. John 14:8. Evidently there is satisfaction to be found in connection with the Father that is not found anywhere else. The Lord unfolds what worship is in spirit and in truth, and that it is the Father who seeks worshippers.
Our brother suggested the last verses we read in Ephesians 3, which very fittingly connected with what we are speaking of just now. It is an immense privilege that we can be employed even now as we shall be when home in the Father’s house. I daresay a good many of us have been brought up in system, and know how nothing is found there of worship in spirit and in truth. Our great thankfulness may well be that we find ourselves where we can join in worship that is delightful to God.
HD'AC I had that thought very much before me this day, and for this reason, that it has been said you could not speak of Jesus as a Worshipper, but I [p. 14] have thought that surely if He was the praying Man, He must also be the worshipping Man, and I have wondered whether in this passage, “The hour cometh and now is”, He had not already begun in His own Person that genuine worship which the Father will have through all eternity, and whether He was bringing it about that others might be with Him in it.
RSS I should certainly think so.
DLH Have you some hesitation in your mind?
JT Well, the Lord’s Person is guarded here in “He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one”. The Lord’s Person is carefully guarded in this epistle to the Hebrews, as chapter 1 shows.
HD'AC As the Sanctifier?
JT Yes; we are linked on with Him as “of one”, but His personal distinction is maintained in that He is said to be the Sanctifier.
FEM You spoke of the Lord coming to our side, and on the other hand as Himself being the true Worshipper. Had you in your mind that there is a sort of double identification: the Lord identifying Himself with the worshipping company and on the other hand identifying the worshipping company with Him? I thought in that way the worshippers entered into His thoughts, and His appreciation of God.
RSS I would go with that. Would you?
JT As I remarked, you have in this epistle the truth of His Person fully guarded and set out first. The Lord is brought before us in this epistle in the first chapter and in the opening of this chapter, so that we know who He is; keeping this in view, I suppose it is quite just to say that He leads the worshipping company.
WCG It says, “In the midst of the assembly will I sing praise unto thee”.
JT We need to have clearly in our souls the “history”. Genesis is divided up to some extent in [p. 15] that way; the history of the heavens and the earth; the history of Adam; the history of Noah. You get thus a knowledge of the persons, and keep that in view. David’s history is given to us in Chronicles, where he is seen as head. So if we keep distinctly before us the Person of the Lord as presented in chapter 1, we can take up chapter 2 and see the length to which He goes as a Man. Hence, He says, “My God”. “I ascend to my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God”. John 20:17. Those two thoughts run together, and I think what has been said as regards worship is therefore quite just if guarded. He takes a place with us: “My God and your God”; but not ‘our God’. There is always that distinction that the spiritual mind recognises. He speaks on the ground of His own Person, and His distinction is marked.
ER “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve” Matthew 4:10, Luke 4:8; He takes the place of Man there.
ASL Is that the reason why He is not ashamed to call them brethren?
RSS Was there anything suggested you would have a hesitation in agreeing with?
JT I should not like to emphasise the word ‘worshipper’, whilst the thought is there I quite admit.
FHB Because He is God Himself.
JT In the last chapter of 1 Chronicles, David is speaking from the standpoint of the people to God. He speaks to God in beautiful expressions of worship, and then the people worshipped Jehovah and the King. There is that distinction; the King represented divine authority — God Himself indeed.
HD'AC When He was on earth He was alone, and when He prayed, He prayed as no man would have prayed — certainly a praying Man, absolutely dependent upon God, and in constant holy intercourse [p. 16] with God — then surely would come the intensest delight in God, and the whole being as Man taken up with God. Is that wrong?
JT Not at all. He says, “I praise thee, Father”. Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21. He is praying in a certain place; it is He who is doing it — there is that distinction. His disciples asked Him to teach them to pray.
RSS And the Lord never prayed with His disciples. He taught them to pray but never prayed with them. That is your thought in connection with worship too? They were of one order, and He was of another. It would be different now, after His resurrection.
JT But it is, “In the midst of the congregation will I praise thee”. The nearest approach you get to the mutual is after the Supper: “When they had sung an hymn”. Matthew 26:30, Mark 14:26. But it is not said that it was to God. In Hebrews 2, He praises through the saints, I think.
FJF Is that why singing comes in: “Will I praise thee with singing?”
HFN You would have a hesitation in stating formally that the Lord was a Worshipper?
JT I would not speak of Him as one of the worshippers.
ASL The thought expressed was The Worshipper. “In the midst ... .. will I sing praise”. Is not that tantamount to speaking of Him as the Worshipper? I thought in connection with “The hour is coming and now is”, that the hour had already struck, because He was here by Himself in it, the first and only true Worshipper.
JT It is worshippers there: “The Father seeketh such”; it is the true worshippers He seeks. I do not think we should include the Lord Himself there. But of course everything has to be learned from Him.
FHB Some have questioned the rightness of worshipping Christ [p. 17] the Son.
JT That would be very bad. All have to honour the Son, even as they honour the Father.
RSS “Let all the angels of God worship him”. Hebrews 1:6.
WJH The Lord Jesus is to be worshipped by the remnant: “He is thy Lord and worship thou him”, Psalm 45:11.
JCS Speaking of Him as the Worshipper might lead to a certain freeness.
JT It is a question of the wisdom of terms. The wise man, it says, sought out suitable words, so that no wrong thought should be conveyed.
EJM He is the Head.
JT There again you have distinctiveness. In all things He has the pre-eminence.
DLH With regard to the type of Aaron and his sons we get the thought of the priestly company in its approach Godward. Now the whole priestly family hung upon Aaron. Is there not in the case of the blessed Lord still that thought; that while He stands, of course, in a sense, pre-eminent and alone, yet there are those identified with Him as His sons on the priestly line?
JT Even there it is “Aaron and his sons”. We thus should never lose sight of the Person. As we were saying last night about Peter: had he had the truth of the Person in his soul when they said, “Doth not your master pay tribute?” Matthew 17:24 he would have known what to say. God had just announced from heaven, “This is my beloved Son”. Matthew 17:5.
RSS The truth of association is largely linked with position. We should be careful to emphasise His pre-eminence.
JT If you have the truth of the Person in your soul, you are always right. It is the same Person whether He is declaring the Father, or whether He is singing to Him. It is He who is doing it.
HFN Would the thought of John 4 be on a higher plane than [p. 18] Hebrews 2 The point in John 4 is that there should be worshippers and that their worship should be in spirit and in truth; the Father was seeking them. But the point in the passage before us is the Lord’s being on our side so as to dignify us; that we are all of one, that is, one kind, of His order. Worship as in John 4, certainly conveys more than singing praises. There is more intensity of feeling in regard to the One worshipped.
JBC-E Would the idea be that the Son as the Sanctifier secures what the Father seeks? The first impression of the Lord’s glory is that He could secure the worshipping company.
JT You have in your mind, “He that sanctifieth”. Think of a Person who can sanctify! Think of what is involved in that!
JBC-E This sanctification would be specifically in relation to the object in view — worshippers for the Father. I thought that in the earlier part of the day the principle of sanctification was touched upon; but not quite in the connection in which you are viewing it now.
JT “He that sanctifieth”. His work of sanctification opens up an immense theme until we arrive at this point: that we are one with Him.
FEM Sanctification by association with Him.
JT But it involves His death — that of the Sanctifier. “This is the history of Noah”. Genesis 6:9. You get before your soul a person who is taken up; he is found in the favour of God. So in chapter 1 you get the truth of His Person, here you get the Sanctifier; the point in chapter 2 is to bring out His identification with us, because it is the Man. The sanctification involves His death, but now we have arrived at the top and saints are identified with Him as all of one. You could hardly get a stronger expression as to what we are.
RSS But it emphasises the immensity of His work: “He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one”.
WCG Corresponding with John 17?
JT It is the same thing; He set Himself apart through death, but it is there by the truth, the application of the truth. Here the whole thing is put together to lead up to this top part of the truth: “All of one”.
FHB The point is not ‘one’, but “of one”.
JJ All these things stated in Hebrews 1 and 2 set forth His greatness.
JT The first chapter particularly; the second brings us in, so there is no disparity in the company.
FEM The chapter sets out the Lord’s humanity and so this great truth regarding our correspondence with Him is brought out among other things. It is in view of our being taken in to God.
JBC-E Does the fourth chapter of John give us the part to which our brother is alluding now? The Lord is minister of the love of God in order that souls may be secured as worshippers. The epistle to the Hebrews appears to state the divine thought, but John 4 the ministry necessary as having that in view.
RSS What is worship? We have been speaking about the worshippers.
JT I thought the verses we read in Ephesians illustrate what it is — the outgoing of the heart Godward, whether it be in the light of what He is as revealed in nature or in His counsels. It is seen, I think, in the movement of Paul’s heart Godward as dealing with these great things. “To him be glory in the assembly”. His heart is so full of the thing that it goes out to God in that way. The word in John 4 denotes great intensity of affection; as knowing God the worshipper is absorbed in Him.
FHB There are two words used for worship. We worship by the Spirit in Philippians, is not the same as in John 4 (Philippians 3:3). The first would take in all that is [p. 20] rendered to God, whether in thanksgiving, praise or adoration, whereas in John 4 it is more adoration itself.
HD'AC In Hebrews it is, “I will hymn thee”; God is the hymn in Hebrews, and the Father is the Object of worship in John 4.
JT “I will sing thy praises”. Sonship underlies worship, but we worship as in family relationship with God, and also as men.
RSS Worship is connected with His nature and being — that would be your apprehension — and also with His counsels.
JT Yes, I thought Ephesians would be a sort of top note for us to finish on in this enquiry. God is thinking of you; it is you He is enjoying; and you are thinking of Him and adoring Him.
HFN Is that why Jacob is singled out among the Old Testament saints as a great typical worshipper, in Hebrews 11?
JT It seems to be the highest note struck in Genesis. An old man from the standpoint of the world, a Syrian ready to perish, but he strengthens himself on the bed, leaning upon the top of his staff — indicating the experience he had with God — and he worshipped God. In Ephesians “God and Father” is made prominent; therefore it is on the highest plane. You also get the word ‘fulness’, because such great results are contemplated. There is “The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ”, Ephesians 1:3 and then “The Father of glory”. Ephesians 1:17. You are led to the source of things — to the heart of God, not only as coming in in the gospel, but also in relation to His counsel.
FP With regard to Hebrews, is there a suggestion of the Father when He says, “I will declare thy Name unto my brethren”?
JT No doubt, only the Father is not characteristic of Hebrews, it is more God.
Ques What is the difference [p. 21] between worship and praise — is praise the outcome of a worshipping spirit?
JT It is; only I think that worship is more subdued. In a general way worship includes all that goes up to God from the saints, whether praise or adoration; but John 4 indicates such occupation with God and such feelings of reverent affection that may not be expressed audibly.
RSS Worship is in connection with what He is; therefore your ability to worship is according to your knowledge of God.
HD'AC Is the assembly gathered in Hebrews 2?
JT The word would indicate that it is gathered. “In the midst” would involve this.
Ques What is the thought in the holy priesthood offering up spiritual sacrifices?
JT The idea of sacrifices does not go quite as far as worship as we are speaking of it. The allusion is to the court of the tabernacle; that is where the sacrifices were offered; but what we are dealing with goes beyond that. The golden altar is the place for prayer; the holiest of all is the place for worship, not that one would deny that the beginning is in the court. Leviticus indicates that God is in the tabernacle to be approached. Therefore as a man draws near with his offering, that is what he had in his mind, and the full consummation is the holiest. John does not dwell on the assembly at all as such — he does not use the word in his gospel. Even when you come to chapter 20 the saints are not contemplated together; it is, “Where the disciples were”. John 20:19. It is therefore a question of my relation with God — my knowing God revealed and my relation with Him, it is the persons rather than what they are collectively.
FEM I thought worshipping the Father involved sons.
JT I think it does, as I said, but that does not [p. 22] shut a son out, because that is what John is aiming at — to make room for the individual: “He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me ... and I will manifest myself to him” John 14:21 — “If anyone love me he will keep my word; and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him and make our abode with him”. John 14:23. Paul, personally, is worshipping here when he says, “To him be glory in the assembly”; it is the outgoing of his heart to God.
Ques Is the company properly made up of individuals of that kind?
JT Quite.
HD'AC I thought there was a constant worship of God all over the world at every moment — a worship of hearts deeply impressed by God.
JT It is not a question in John of gathering together, or a place, but of persons. What I think you get in John is that the family is developed. You get the persons who form the family, and then the priestly economy as built up on that. He breathes into them the Holy Spirit. In drawing near to God there must be an element of priesthood; that is, the element of holiness.
HH We used to connect the holiest with the meeting, but F.E.R. said the holiest was available to us apart from the meetings.
JT Certainly; it is in my power to enter the holiest, so that I may be able to take my place in the assembly. It is as having entered the holiest that I know my place in the assembly; I am there according to God.
FP Sonship lies behind the thought of priesthood.
JT So John aims at securing the family — to gather together in one the children of God scattered abroad; but if you do not bring in the priestly element you do not have “a place for the Lord”, Psalm 132:5.
[p. 23] EJMcB In John 9 you have a sample case.
ASL And in that man you see what worship is.
Rem If you have not the priestly element you have not the service of God.
JT That is how the matter stands in Scripture. The great burden of Genesis is to bring in the family; they are carried over and numbered at the beginning of Exodus. Then God appears to Moses, and He impresses him with holiness. We are now approaching the mediatorial system, with which the priest is connected; and then He says, “This shall be a token unto thee ... ye shall serve God upon this mountain”. Exodus 3:12. And he says to Pharaoh, “Let my son go that he may serve me”. Exodus 4:23. The family thought is underneath, but God is worshipped in holiness, and thus the need of priesthood.
Then in the sixth chapter the genealogy is brought in again until we come to Levi, when there is no more, because it is a question of the priestly system that is before us. If it were the family of Jacob it would be all the tribes, but that is already given. So you get the genealogy as far as Levi, then we read, “These are that Aaron and Moses, to whom the Lord said, Bring out the children of Israel ... ...” Exodus 6:27.
So in the Psalms; if we take the Songs of degrees, we come up to the brethren, the family, in Psalm 133, and then in the next Psalm, the last of the Songs of degrees, we have those who stand by night in the house of the Lord. From that point onwards we have the great celebrations of praise to God: “Bless the Lord, O house of Israel: bless the Lord, O house of Aaron: bless the Lord, O house of Levi: ye that fear the Lord, bless the Lord”, Psalm 135:19,20 and one psalm after another follows, breathing out praise to God, but only through the priests.
In the New Testament, John’s ministry is to bring out the family; and then, the family secured, to [p. 24] bring out the priesthood, the Holy Spirit being breathed upon them in John 20.
At the close of the previous dispensation, in Malachi, you see the mind of God in regard to the priests; he gives you a description of Levi that you do not get anywhere else. “Ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith Jehovah of hosts. My covenant with him was of life and peace; and I gave them to him that he might fear; and he feared me and trembled before my name. The law of truth was in his mouth”. Malachi 2:4 - 6. That is one of the most important things in regard to the priests: the law of truthfulness. “Unrighteousness was not found in his lips; he walked with me in peace and uprightness, and he turned many from iniquity. For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and at his mouth they seek the law; for he is the messenger of Jehovah of hosts”. Malachi 2:6,7. If we have that at the present time, we have deliverance, turning people from iniquity, and maintaining what is due to God. We approach people because they belong to the family. That is what came out in the great Bethesda matter, the question of what is due to God. You say, They are all brethren, but then what about the priests? You must look out for the priests; that is the point in Malachi.
ASL The proof of love is obedience.
HD'AC There is a remarkable designation of priests in Hebrews, “Them ... that come unto God by him”. Hebrews 7:25. And He lives to make intercession for them, Evidently the thought is that nothing should hinder this holy privilege of approach to God.
HFN In regard to the message that Mary conveyed to the assembly, do you connect the mediatorial system with “My God”, and the family with the thought of the Father? John 20:17.
JT The two things are there together; the gospel of John would bring the children of God [p. 25] together. We are conscious at the end that we are brethren, not only on moral grounds, as in the synoptic gospels, but in John the term is connected with us in relation to divine counsels — it is the mind of God for us. So that you have the family first, “My Father and your Father”. I should connect the priestly system with “My God and your God”. John 20:17. Knowing what is meant we can apply the truth to Gentile believers. The Ephesians were believers in the true sense of the word. They were not only professors, but they maintained what they believed; they were “faithful in Christ Jesus”. Ephesians 1:1. The address to the Ephesians shows they were priests; they would conserve the truth. Even when the Lord addressed them later, in Revelation, they were conserving the truth, although they were getting away on the side of love. They were therefore priests.
DLH Have we not a suggestion of the line on which worship is found at the end of the doxology in Romans 11:36 “For of him, and through him, and for him, are all things: to him be glory for ever Amen”? I thought that shows what we might call the flow and return, the return being the worship.
JT So you have in that chapter the word ‘fulness’, which it would be well to notice. You have the fulness of Israel, then you have the fulness of the Gentiles. That is to say, you look abroad on the earth, and you see the crops in bloom. There is the earth’s fulness, this full result of the sowing.
So you take Israel: what sowing has been there! Is not God going to have results? He is — the full result of the divine sowing, as Hosea puts it. The Lord will sow and He will have a full crop; hence the fulness of the Gentiles. The gospel going out has brought in such results as the fulness of the Gentiles; then in Ephesians we come to the fulness of Christ, which the assembly, His body, is. There is the full [p. 26] result, that in which He is seen, the fulness of Christ. In chapter 3 the fulness of God, as if you were to think of the blessed God as the source of all, and of what had come out.
HH Worship is connected in that way with a full and overflowing cup.
JT God has been thinking all the time of certain persons; that is the wonderful thing. He tells the woman of Samaria the kind of persons He wants. God is a Spirit and He seeks worshippers to worship Him in spirit and in truth.
HW Sonship is the height of God’s thought today for His people, and everything, priesthood included, is to be reached on the line of sonship.
JT “Filled with all the fulness of God”. Ephesians 3:19. I can only understand eternity as that in which I shall have part, the result of God coming out. It is the fulness of God; it is not simply that I am filled unto God, but unto all the fulness of God — what God is. So that “He that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God and God in him”. 1 John 4:16. There will be One there whom we shall know personally, but as regards where we are, it is the fulness of God. I think it will be the full result of all that God is as having come out. If you take the idea of being filled in Colossians, it is an exclusive idea; that is, you do not need anything else. We need nothing outside of Him: “Ye are complete in him”. Colossians 2:10. But in Ephesians it is Himself as revealed and all the blessed eternal results that He has effected. We are “filled to all the fulness of God:” Ephesians 3:19.
Pages 27 - 206 — “Notes of Readings and Addresses”, Scotland, 1926 (Volume 85)