BAPTISM
BAPTISM
Mark 16:16; Exodus 14:15 - 31.
JT I thought it would help us to consider baptism as representing the acceptance — the public acceptance — of the divine judgment. You will observe that the commandments in Matthew and Mark to the disciples include baptism, whereas it is not in evidence in Luke and John, alluding, I suppose, and in keeping with the fact that the bearing of the judgment — the forsaking of God — is emphasised both in Matthew and Mark. The Lord is forsaken on the cross according to these two evangelists, and in keeping with that the believer should be baptised. God would have us to be in accord thus publicly with what Christ underwent. There would be a disposition to avoid the public acceptance of the divine judgment; but it comes out at the beginning of Christianity that those who believed Peter’s word were baptised. It is put in that way, “they that gladly received his word were baptised”, Acts 2:41 not ‘that Peter baptised them’, but that they “were baptised”.
Ques Had there been an aspect of the death of Christ in Exodus 12 which was more private, before they took the passage of the sea?
JT Yes. The passover is in a measure private — it is kept indoors. The passage of the Red Sea is public; it takes us out of the sphere to which judgment applies. This principle of the acceptance of the divine verdict is introduced at the very outset of the line of faith and whatever the divine findings may be, they are accepted. So you find that Seth had a son and he called his name Enosh. There was the acceptance, in the naming of his child, of the judgment that lay upon man. Light broke in there as it says, “Then began men to call upon the name of the Lord”. Genesis 4:26.
[p. 51] It is in the acceptance of the divine findings by some public occurrence that light comes in, so that the naming of Seth’s child brought in light. And then Adam being recognised in his position of headship, the exercise is traced from him; Genesis 5. He comes into the gain of his son’s act and therefore Enoch is counted from Adam — the seventh from Adam being the result of the exercise. Enoch is the culmination of the exercise, and he had this testimony that he pleased God. With Noah and with Moses we get the same principle, but particularly in this instance in Exodus 14 where the children of Israel are said to have acted on the principle of faith — the only instance in which it is so said. We read, “By faith they passed through the Red Sea” Hebrews 11:29; it was what they did. There is that which has to be done to complete the thing, in order that there should be the full result for God. The result for God is not till chapter 15 — there is no song till then. As to the passover lamb, they were to eat it. In all sacrificial offerings that the people presented to God, God had his part first, but the passover is peculiar in that respect — it was for the people. So God’s part comes out in chapter 15. There must be public conformity to what God is.
WH They “went out ... in the sight of all the Egyptians”. Numbers 33:3. Does that refer to this?
JT Yes. It is an allusion to this chapter.
Ques In what way do you view 1 Corinthians?
JT In the same sense. It is Christ our passover sacrificed for us.
Rem In chapter 11 the apostle brings in the other side.
JT Yes, the Lord’s supper. Here (Exodus 14) Jehovah says, “Wherefore criest thou unto me? Speak unto the children of Israel, that they go forward”. A time comes when it is not a question of [p. 52] speaking to God, but of moving according to light He has afforded.
AN You distinguish between what there is on our side which is private as in the passover, and the acceptance of death in a public way; but before God can have His portion there must be the latter.
JT Yes. That is what I see.
Ques Do we understand you to mean that while there is a public position in baptism, the Spirit would maintain the reality of that position in our souls?
JT I think it is maintained in the Lord’s supper.
Rem Because that is our act.
JT Yes. We are committed to the death of the Lord. It has been said that baptism introduces us into the wilderness and the Lord’s supper sustains us in it.
FRB In the Lord’s supper is there the remembrance of the act of God in judgment?
JT Well, hardly that. It is the difference between roasting and boiling. The passover was roasted. It was the direct action of the fire upon the meat. It had to be eaten, no part was to be offered; it was not presented on the altar. It was a question of the people discerning what was due to them. The blood kept out the destroying angel. That was Christ’s direct bearing of judgment. In the subsequent offerings, which were eaten by the priests or others, the meat was generally boiled, that is, the indirect action of the fire not the direct action, and I would connect that more with the Lord’s supper; but the death of Christ is before us, for the blood is separated from the body.
AG In connection with baptism, have you in view the public act and the keeping up of its import publicly?
JT Quite. It should be the outcome of the acceptance of God’s judgment: “They that gladly received his word were baptised”. Acts 2:41.
[p. 53] It is where you get the thing first mentioned that you get the idea. It is first mentioned in connection with this dispensation, in Acts 2 — the verse just quoted. There was the necessity of baptism but before baptism repentance. Peter says, “Repent, and be baptised every one of you”. Acts 2:38. Then it says, “They that gladly received his word” — that is, the word he gave — “were baptised”. The state that should go with baptism was evidently there.
AN I think we have been accustomed to give baptism particular significance without taking it in its scriptural setting as first presented, that is as connected with repentance. “Repent and be baptised”. Acts 2:38.
JT Yes, that is what I thought; Peter’s words convey the necessity preceding baptism. There is the acceptance of the judgment of God, of which baptism is the public expression. In Mark 16 you get the complete idea — “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved”. It is not the administration of baptism there but the necessity of it. Matthew gives the administration.
Ques Would you say that the eunuch in Acts 8 justified God in that way?
JT I think so. “Here is water”, Acts 8:36 he says; he saw the necessity for it.
Ques Would God view the people in Exodus 15 as on different ground entirely?
JT Yes. They are then publicly in relationship with God. It is due to God that it should be so. The people were as safe (from the divine side) when eating the roast lamb as they were in the wilderness, but they were not yet outwardly delivered; they were not clear of the place where they were under the enemy’s power.
Ques Would you say that in going through the [p. 54] Red Sea they came into line with what was in the mind of God?
JT Yes. They were then publicly in accord with the death of Christ.
AN Do you suggest that our movements publicly are to be governed by our acceptance of the death of Christ?
JT Yes. The great importance of accepting the death of Christ having come home to us, we must accept it in the prescribed way. Those who received Peter’s word accepted it; they were baptised, and then following that they continued in the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, and in breaking of bread and in prayers. They accepted death publicly and then they were added; that is the divine way; and then as thus taken account of, God takes them up and adds to them publicly. “The Lord added to the assembly daily those that were to be saved”. Acts 2:47.
Rem So the waters of the Red Sea were a wall unto them; that would be in the way of protection.
JT Well, I think it emphasised to them that death was there. At the Jordan there was no water in sight, but at the Red Sea the waters being a wall to them on their right hand and on their left was a witness to the judgment. They went over by faith: “They passed through”. Hebrews 11:29.
Ques Do you think that if I view the point from God’s side it raises very serious exercise as to one’s responsibility to God?
JT Yes. Numbers calls attention to the fact that they went out with a high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians; Numbers 33:3. That public action itself was necessary to complete the exercise. One is defective unless one takes the public position in accord with the divine finding. As having passed over “Israel saw the Egyptians dead on the sea-shore”, and the great power with which Jehovah had [p. 55] wrought. You realise the power of God in the exercise.
Ques Would you say that there are two things to maintain us in the public position — the passover and then that we have seen the Egyptians dead?
JT Well, there is no record that they saw the first-born ones slain because that was private — “in every house”. They did not see that, nor did the Egyptians see what they were doing. But these exercises are incomplete unless the prescribed public attitude is taken, unless baptism is accepted.
GWW In other words, you may have all the private exercise without the full good of salvation.
JT Yes. Salvation is a public thing. As saved one has the helmet of salvation on.
GWW You have definitely taken a certain attitude towards these conditions, and in that you are supported and in that there is salvation.
Rem If I recognise the rights of God, I can count on God’s support.
JT Well, you realise God’s support as accepting His judgment on man in the flesh. Baptism is the means by which God intends that we should show publicly our acceptance of the judgment which rested on us. Paul was not sent to baptise, but nevertheless baptism was always present in his ministry and he himself gives us the doctrine of it; Romans 6.
GWW “He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved”, it says in Mark. The emphasis laid on baptism shows that it is a feature in salvation that we have to pay attention to.
Ques Is that what is seen in going forward?
JT Yes. The going forward of the believer is accepting the import of his baptism.
GWW It marks the first movement and every subsequent movement.
JT Yes, and it is the beginning of the believer’s history publicly. It is the demand of a good conscience before God; 1 Peter 3:21.
AN [p. 56] How is this done in the sight of Egyptians — merely by the rite being administered?
JT The rite is the formal expression of it, but you must accept death in your soul’s reckoning. You would expect in Seth’s house that death was accepted, he having named his son Enosh, so I think God acted with Seth because in the list you get in Genesis 5 down to Jared, the Holy Spirit emphasises that every one died, as much as to say that Seth was right. The name he gave to his son might have been questioned, for then men lived nearly 1,000 years, but the Holy Spirit says of each “he died”, as if God would confirm the faith of Seth. Genesis 5:6 - 20. God honours faith and confirms it.
Ques We have not to wait 800 years to die! we begin with it.
JT Yes. And you maintain it. I have no doubt that the Lord’s supper represents the food by which one is enabled to maintain the principle set out in baptism. “Let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup”, 1 Corinthians 11:28.
AN You own the sphere of life by way of the acceptance of the death of Christ. That would be John 6 in principle.
JT Yes. Mark emphasises those who believe and are baptised. Such are saved. Those who have faith are immune from the judgment of God and satanic influences.
GWW As to what you were saying as to the Lord’s supper, one might also say that in it we have the Lord’s provision in one way for the maintenance of the position taken up publicly. You have development of affection which would lead the soul to continue in the position taken up in baptism. The Lord sets very great store by this position being taken up.
JT Yes. In every circumstance where the judgment of God is involved, relief is in the public [p. 57] acceptance of it. There ought to be a movement corresponding with what God has done; without this you could not have Exodus 15. You could not have in Egypt the song mentioned there.
Ques Would you say that is the responsibility on the part of the children of Israel?
JT It is the result for God. The children of Israel did not realise what was involved in the moving forward, but as they moved they began to see what God had done for them, so then they were ready for the song and the song is, I apprehend, God’s portion. Just as Enoch was the result of an exercise, so also is the song sung by Moses and the children of Israel.
SM The cloud went behind!
JT Yes, that is because the Egyptians were nearby. It was a testimony of God’s protection of His people, which is a great incentive to move forward. The point here is what you are to do, for in doing it you realise His power. Moses rod lifted up over the sea represented the authority of God in dealing with death and him who had the power of it.
AN The same principle comes in in Joshua, where they turned their backs upon the men of Ai. “Get thee up; wherefore liest thou thus upon thy face? Israel hath sinned”, Joshua 7:10,11.
JT I think it is a great thing to see that God looks for public conformity to Himself in His judgment, and that enters into every circumstance requiring judgment among the saints. So in the case you refer to, Israel had sinned and this had to be owned publicly. Achan was stoned.
AN If we are not true to our baptism, what then?
GWW If one does not obey the word “go forward” one falls into the hands of the Egyptians.
JT That is very important. One is exposed [p. 58] to Satan.
GWW It was always so. Later Amalek hung on the rear to cut off the stragglers.
JT As many as received Peter’s word were baptised, and then it says they were added; as if they were honoured by God publicly in accepting the divine order. There is nothing to indicate the dead first-born in Egypt, but when Israel go forward they see the evidences of the overthrow of Satan’s power. They see the dead bodies of the Egyptians on the sea-shore. They would never have seen them, if they had not gone forward.
Rem Faith would always lead us on.
JT That is what is remarkable in this instance.
It is the only case in which the people are said to have acted in faith: “By faith they passed through the Red Sea”. Hebrews 11:29. Moses celebrated the passover by faith. It is good to see the moral value of chapter 15, for it is an illustration of what accrues to God as the result of a right exercise in His people. It is in salvation that we render God His portion. “Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song, ... the Lord ... hath triumphed gloriously”. Exodus 15:1,6.
Ques What would answer to the enemies dead on the sea-shore?
JT It would be some evidence to you as a believer that Satan is defeated. It is a great feature of warfare to find out what the opposing general is aiming at. You want to thwart him in that, and God gives you evidence that it is accomplished. He has His own way of showing you the enemy defeated. The passage of the Red Sea is a type of the overthrow of Satan’s power through the death and resurrection of Christ.
Rem They would not have seen this wonderful victory if they had not gone through the Sea.
JT No. The Lord says to the disciples when they spoke about demons being subject to them through His name, “In this rejoice not ... but rejoice that your names are written in the heavens”, Luke 10:20.
and then He says, “I beheld Satan as lightning falling out of heaven”. Luke 10:18. That was a much greater thing. The Lord saw Satan fall from heaven — the complete defeat of the enemy.
GWW It is a great thing to see the enemy dead on the sea-shore. It speaks of a principle once enslaving my soul but now seen as dead.
AN That is an interesting point that every exercise works out a result for God. I was thinking of Psalm 18, where the same principle is worked out. The result is, “I will love thee, O Lord, my strength”. Psalm 18:1. The affections were set in movement.
JT It is one of the most interesting things in Scripture that God looks for result from every exercise. He brings in an occasion of exercise and looks for a result from it. He found pleasure in Enoch and in Noah; and when Jacob was recovered he poured a drink-offering on the pillar of stone he had reared up, and in Joseph there is pleasure for Christ in the recovery of the brethren, for Joseph kissed them. God allows the exercise that there may be something for Himself out of it, and that something follows the public acceptance of the judgment. Whatever God’s mind might be, the public acceptance of it is pleasing to Him.
GWW If God moves towards me for my salvation, it must be very pleasurable to me that I should sing Him a song; in the song the exercise is complete.
JT I think that is where the fruit comes in; “the fruit of our lips giving thanks”. Hebrews 13:5. The end in view in all God’s dealings is fruit for Himself.
GWW The enemy has been overthrown, and the people are conscious of the overthrow and they attribute it all to God; so that as was remarked, it was when the Lord saved David out of the hand of all his enemies that he spake the words of his song to the Lord in Psalm 18.
[p. 60] Rem The Lord said to the palsied man, “Stretch forth thine hand”. Matthew 12:13. Would that be an instance of the power received with movement?
JT Moses represents the authority of God; and what lay on man involved that God Himself is really concerned about what hinders us; so He says to Moses, “Stretch out thy hand over the sea”. That was God’s part, the children of Israel could not do that, but they had to move forward, and it says they went on dry ground through the sea. God felt the thing that lay on man more than man did, for it interfered with God’s rights over man. Satan had the power of death. But as they were prepared to move forward He acted for them.
Ques When you speak of the helmet what do you mean?
JT It means that you are free from the thing that held you.
FRB What would you say about the signs: “And these signs shall follow them that believe”? Mark 16:17.
JT I think they are for confirmation. The power of God accompanies your path as you accept baptism. As you accept what the light of God conveys He gives you confirmation. It is worthy of note that in Mark it is “these signs shall follow them that believe” Mark 16:17. — not the apostles but “them that believe”.
Rem Israel is said to have been baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, what would that mean?
JT The cloud would be the sign of the divine presence. I think baptism in the cloud is that you are merged in the divine presence. Matthew says, “Baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” Matthew 28:19: that is to say you are introduced into all that light — God fully revealed. Then He is here by the Spirit.
Ques Baptism puts you on right ground but you need the Spirit for [p. 61] power?
JT That is right. Baptism puts you into public conformity with the judgment of God, and God is with you on that line.
GWW The great danger is in taking up these things theoretically. It is the seriousness of it that one wants to have pressed.
JT Yes, and the results for God. As there is progress in the soul in going forward — accepting death, it results in a tribute of praise to God.
Ques Why do they come up out of Egypt in military rank — in fives?
JT It was a testimony that they were not in confusion. As subject, the believers’ steps are in divine order. When the Lord came out of death there was no evidence of confusion.
AN It would be a point in 2 Timothy that you contend lawfully: but if I am not true to my baptism I am not striving lawfully — I am bringing in some principles that are unlawful.
JT That is so. I think the order of marching is a testimony to the power of God in that they were not as in a rout. They did not go out pell-mell, but in order. You would expect that if I call upon the name of the Lord for salvation, I come into protection, and I do not need to be confused. The people came out of Egypt ‘arrayed’ that is “five in a rank”. They were not in confusion for they were moving in relation to authority — they were typically in subjection to Christ.
Rem Five means human weakness — they went in ranks of five.
JT They might be conscious of their weakness but they were not in confusion. It is a good thing to have the sense of weakness but a great thing to move as under divine authority.
GWW Five is never a sign of weakness due to sin.
JT It is the weakness which casts us on God. “When I am weak, then am I strong”. 2 Corinthians 12:10.