CAST OUT
[p. 135] CAST OUT
JT What is in mind is to call attention to being cast out. The thought is to connect what John 9 teaches with the first epistle of Peter, in order to enlarge on the subject: “Because it is contained in the scripture: Behold, I lay in Zion a corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believes on him shall not be put to shame. To you therefore who believe is the preciousness; but to the disobedient, the stone which the builders cast away [p. 149] as worthless, this is become head of the corner”, 1 Peter 2:6,7. It is thought that the record of this man in John 9 will help us to see how the principle of casting away is applied by the people of this world, and how the castaway comes in for blessing, as it is said in the verses read, “Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him, he said to him, Thou, dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, And who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him? And Jesus said to him, Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he. And he said, I believe, Lord: and he did him homage” (verses 35 - 38). So that these passages will doubtless help us to see how Christianity applies in those who have faith, and how it leads to their being cast out; and then the contrast, the truth is seen in the Lord announcing His sonship, and that the cast out one comes to know the Son of God.
AM Does the night that the Lord referred to in verse 4 refer to the night of His rejection?
JT “The night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world. Having said these things, he spat on [p. 136] the ground and made mud of the spittle, and put the mud, as ointment, on his eyes. And he said to him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, which is interpreted, Sent. He went therefore and washed, and came seeing”.
AM Does the Lord’s public rejection continue right through the long night of His absence? Had He that in mind?
JT I am sure that is the truth, and it fits in with John’s ministry.
PAH They really cast the Lord out according to the close of the previous chapter: “They took up therefore stones that they might cast them at him; but Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and thus passed on”, John 8:59.
JT So that there was a murderous attitude in the Jews, and that murderous attitude is expressed in the stones which they took up to cast at Him. This chapter, however, is of the same character, though somewhat less wicked or violent, but the same principle is expressed in both chapters.
RP This chapter throws into relief the works of God.
JT Just so, and that is not a question of sins. The disciples were occupied with what might be governmental. Was the man’s being blind governmental? The Lord would show that it was not a question of governmental action, but of the works of God. The man was blind apparently from birth. We are apt to attribute governmental action when it does not really exist. God is entitled to act sovereignly at any time, not necessarily in government. What is to be observed is the way the truth works out in the believer; that is, how it works out and culminates in exposing the state of man, that it is such that he would cast the believer out. The point [p. 137] for us to see is how a particular truth, as applied in a case of this kind, culminates from man’s side, in the believer being cast out, and on the other side, in the Son of God being attested and believed on.
ENJ So that the last verses of John 20 would be in line with what you are saying: “Many other signs therefore also Jesus did before his disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name”, John 20:30 - 31.
JT It is good to bring that up, because it brings out the whole point in John’s ministry: the Son of God and the consequence of believing on Him. The Lord had taken on sonship, because He was born into manhood; sonship attached to Him. The word was, “The only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him (John 1:18)”. Sonship attached to Him as born here as man. He had been born into this world. “The Word became flesh”, (John 1:14) meaning that the thing had been taken on; sonship had been taken on.
CP What distinction would you make between the titles “Son of God” and “the Son”?
JT Well, the title “the Son” is more a formal title. The “Son of God” is more what He has taken on as a pattern, because believers are sons too. God is bringing many sons to glory; Christ is the pattern of them all. “The Son” is a title distinct to Himself. We could not apply it to anybody else. “The Son”, which is a title used of the Lord, would mean that He is the only one who can take it.
RP The great truth of His Person was brought out in chapter 8:58: “I am”. He has come into manhood, the place to which sonship applies.
JT Yes. Sonship applied to Him in manhood; it did not apply to Him before He became Man. Some have said it was an eternal thought, but it is [p. 138] not. It is eternal in the sense that it never ceases, but it is not eternal in the sense that it never began.
CP Would you view sonship in relation to the counsel and purpose of God?
JT Quite so. It is a title taken by the second Person, as we say, in the Godhead; so that we have it applied in Psalm 2, “Kiss the Son”; that is the term. It means that He is officially set up as Son, and therefore all come to Him. “The Father loves the Son, and has given all things to be in his hand”, (John 3:85).
PAH As the works of God are manifested in this man, it really reaches a climax when he is cast out. That is the issue as far as the religious world is concerned. There is no room there for the works of God. It is different from Hebrews 13, where it is a question of going forth to Him without the camp, bearing His reproach; here it is a question of being cast out.
JT Yes, and how the truth works out in a person who is a believer. The Lord puts it to him, “Dost thou believe on the Son of God?” and the man says, “Who is he, Lord, that I may believe on him?” That is to say he is ready to believe, it is only a question of the light coming to him, and the Lord furnishes it, saying, “Thou hast both seen him, and he that speaks with thee is he”.
PRP We understand that all that is of God, beginning with new birth, will not in any way fit into this world system.
JT No, indeed it will not; that is quite true. There is no room in this world system for the truth, beginning with the new birth; and the necessity for the new birth is to show that the world was reprobate. “The whole world lies in the wicked one”, (1 John 5:19) it says. So that it is well for us to face facts, and as we sit down together on the first day of the week, the Lord’s supper enters into this matter. The works of [p. 139] God come up here at once, and the Lord intended that they should; and the fact that is brought out here intimates how the truth is worked out in the person who believes, how it is worked out in circumstances of extreme hostility as expressed in the words “they cast him out”.
PAH Will you make it a little clearer as to the Lord’s supper entering into this? Is it the setting of the Supper in a scene of hostility that you have in mind?
JT Yes; we often speak of the whole world lying in the wicked one, and the passage in the book of Revelation referring to the cities of this world, and certain truth comes out. It is said, “Where also their Lord was crucified”, and that they are “spiritually Sodom and Egypt”, Revelation 11:8. That is to say, we break bread here in Brisbane, but do we allow ourselves to think that the street outside is dominated by the fact that our Lord was crucified in it? Do we accept it, that in the cities of the world we have hostility to Christ, that our Lord was crucified in them?
JMcN It is only in the measure in which we are cast out from the system of things around that we are able to take on the truth of sonship. It was only after the man had been cast out that the Lord spoke to him as to believing on the Son of God. Is it equally applicable to us?
JT Just so. On the one hand we are outcasts, we have to accept that, and do well to accept it. The Lord is cast out as worthless, but on the other hand He is made Head of the corner, and Peter says “To you therefore who believe is the preciousness (1 Peter 2:7)”. Preciousness is attached to Him in that sense.
RP A new world comes into view, a new order of things connected with the Son of God.
JT That is the wonderful thing that attaches to our position. “Who is he that gets the victory over the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1 John 5:5). Overcoming the world is the point.
WB Those who came to David in the stronghold of Adullam answer to this, do they not?
JT Well, quite so. He became captain of those that came to the stronghold. What they became was derived in principle from David. He was the victorious one, and their victory would be derived from him, as now our victory is in Christ, the Son of God.
JM It says in verse 22, “the Jews had already agreed that if any one confessed him to be the Christ, he should be excommunicated from the synagogue John 9:22”. Would that give us the atmosphere which surrounds us as partaking of the Supper?
JT Very good, that is what I mentioned, because where the Lord was crucified was spiritually Sodom and Egypt, and we have to face that as on His side, and therefore rejection applies to us, because they cast Him out.
RP Confessing Him as the Christ would overthrow what is of man, and the Son of God really brings in what is for God.
JT John’s epistle works that out: “This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith”, 1 John 5:4. So that we need not wonder that we have difficulties from trade unionism and the like, because it is where Christ was crucified. That is the very thing that works out in His rejection and crucifixion.
JM Would this blindness be indicative of the whole condition of the leaders at that moment?
JT Just so. There is something said in the last verse which speaks of that: “If ye were blind ye would not have sin; but now ye say, We see, your sin remains”. They professed to see, and therefore their sin remained. They professed to see and [p. 141] rejected the Son of God and the devoted followers of the Lord Jesus. It is the apostasy applied to the Jews, and the same thing will be seen in Christendom. The apostasy has already set in, according to 2 Thessalonians, but it has not been completed or perfected.
RP They were sinning against light, whereas we see progressive movement in this man in John.
JT That just comes to the point we should deal with specifically, and that is what he said to his neighbours in the way of confession, and then what he said to the Jews. To the neighbours he said, “It is I”. And they said, “How have thine eyes been opened? He answered and said, A man called Jesus made mud and anointed mine eyes, and said to me, Go to Siloam and wash: and having gone and washed, I saw”. Then they bring him to the Pharisees, and “the Pharisees therefore also again asked him how he received his sight. And he said to them, He put mud upon mine eyes, and I washed, and I see John 9:15”. That is to say, what he said to the neighbours was, “A man called Jesus made mud and anointed mine eyes, and ... I saw”. He puts it in the past tense. But to the Pharisees it is the present tense: “I washed, and I see”. He is an avowed follower of Christ, and what has happened is in the present tense. His eyes are opened.
AM Is the opening of eyes needed not only to see the Lord who He is, but where He is? I was thinking we need to see Him as He is, as the Son of God, and where He is, the position He has taken up. Is that involved in it? There is a position with which He links on here in this scene, not so much where He is in heaven, but a position where He is to be found here.
JT Well, I think we would be glad if you would enlarge on that, because it leads up to something very [p. 142] important.
AM I was thinking of the end of Hebrews: “Therefore let us go forth to him” — that is the Person — “without the camp” — that is the position where He can be found Hebrews 13:13.
JT Quite so. There is a positive side of the position, for the Son of God means that He is risen from the dead. He is also “declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead”, (Romans 1:4). And that is more than being cast out. We have to get the positive side of the truth.
PAH The positive side is seen in the latter part we read in our chapter where the man is really attached to Christ as the Son of God. He finds a new centre, a new world in the Son of God.
JT So that chapter 10 is the enlarging of chapter 9, and then chapters 11 and 12 are further enlargements. That is to say it is a question of the resurrection. It is not simply that Lazarus was raised to where he had been, but Christ is raised; He is raised out of the condition in which He was. He is dead and raised out of that condition and John 11 and 12 would develop that for us. John 20, of course, is the full thought of sonship, and we are associated with Christ in that sonship.
AM Though Mary Magdalene was attached to the Lord personally, she had not the light of the new position until the Lord gave her the message for His own, His brethren.
JT Quite so; she took Him to be the gardener, but Peter and John believed. They saw and believed; that is to say they entered into the sepulchre and saw where the Lord lay, where His head and His feet had been, and the answer to all that is that He is now risen. He is with the Father.
AM How far would Martha’s confession go? She says. “I believe that thou art the Christ, the [p. 143] Son of God, who should come into the world”, (John 11:27).
JT She went far, but she ought to have been able to say more than that. Chapters 11 and 12 bring out the truth of Christ’s Person; that He must rise from the dead.
JM He had already said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life”. (John 11:25) Had she not taken it in?
JT In a way she did. She went off and told her sister. In that she did well, but if we listen to Luke we would not make much of what Martha confessed. We have to come to John to get anything in regard to Martha. She was very slow in taking on the truth, she is in company with Nicodemus and others, whereas Mary took it on, according to Luke, immediately. She sat and was listening to the word of Christ. There are many who are like Martha; they take things on in measure, but they do not take on the final thought, and get to the full result. If we did not have John we should not know whether Martha was even a believer.
RP The man in John 9 is characteristically a believer. He said “I see”.
JT That is the point we want to come to. We see how the thing worked out in a person who is truly a believer, how the truth worked out in his soul, leading to his being rejected by the Jews, but glorified as it were by Christ. He believes in the Son of God. “They bring him who was before blind to the Pharisees. Now it was sabbath when Jesus made the mud and opened his eyes. The Pharisees therefore also again asked him how he received his sight. And he said to them, He put mud upon mine eyes, and I washed, and I see. Some of the Pharisees therefore said. This man is not of God, for he does not keep the sabbath. Others said, How can a sinful man perform such signs? And there was a division among them. They say therefore again to the blind [p. 144] man, What dost thou say of him, that he has opened thine eyes? And he said, He is a prophet. The Jews therefore did not believe concerning him that he was blind and had received sight, until they had called the parents of him that had received sight. And they asked them saying, This is your son, of whom ye say that he was born blind: how then does he now see? His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind; but how he now sees we do not know, or who has opened his eyes we do not know. He is of age: ask him, he will speak concerning himself. His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had already agreed that if any one confessed him to be the Christ, he should be excommunicated from the synagogue. On this account his parents said, He is of age: ask him” (John 9:13 - 23). We can see how the man is progressing, and how he is becoming victorious in his soul by receiving the light. Then in verses 24 - 29 we shall see how the man came fully into the truth: “They called therefore a second time the man who had been blind, and said to him, Give glory to God: we know that this man is sinful. He answered therefore, If he is sinful I know not. One thing I know, that, being blind before, now I see. And they said to him again, What did he do to thee? how opened he thine eyes? He answered them, I told you already and ye did not hear: why do ye desire to hear again? do ye also wish to become his disciples? They railed at him, and said, Thou art his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses. We know that God spoke to Moses; but as to this man, we know not whence he is (John 9:24 - 29)”. He is thoroughly militant now, and on the side of the truth, and able to state it. So it is an example for all of us to come into the truth, and come into the truth of the Son of God. “The man answered and said to them, Now in this is a wonderful thing, that ye do not know whence [p. 145] he is, and he has opened mine eyes. But we know that God does not hear sinners; but if any one be God-fearing and do his will, him he hears. Since time was, it has not been heard that any one opened the eyes of one born blind. If this man were not of God he would be able to do nothing. They answered and said to him, Thou hast been wholly born in sins, and thou teachest us? And they cast him out” (John 9:30 - 34). He is thoroughly triumphant in contending for the truth as it came to him. And then he meets opposition, and so the remaining verses, 35 to the end, tell us how he came into sonship. He came into the light of Christ as Son, the knowledge of Christ’s sonship, and then his own sonship.
PRP Linking this thought on with the Supper, is it as we go through the scene of opposition here that God is able to work in our souls, and that that provides substance for the occasion of the Lord’s coming to us?
JT I would think that fully. The Lord comes to us in His own private way, but then how do we come into things? We are bound to come into opposition if we take a stand for the truth as this man did. Christ comes to us privately, but we come to the assembly. We come into the truth of the fellowship, and into the assembly and the privileges of it; we come into contact with opposition at once, and we may as well face that because it is just what we are dealing with in these chapters we have been going over.
PRP The point I was seeking help on was as to the matter of formation generally; we are developed in the scene of opposition.
JT Quite so, formation must take place if we are to be militant, and make us such as can stand; we go through with things, we are victorious; that comes out in John’s epistle. The passage quoted from the end of John 20, speaks of the many things [p. 146] that were done by the Lord that are not written in this book, “but these are written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life in his name John 20:31”. That is what is in mind in this wonderful book of John’s gospel. So that chapter 20 is not only the resurrection of Christ, it is His ascension. The point was as to Mary Magdalene’s message, “Go to my brethren and say to them, I ascend”, not that ‘I am risen’, but that “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my Good and your God”, John 20:17 It is a question of the ascension. Not ‘I have ascended’; the Lord did not say that, but “I ascend”, as if it were a present action.
RP That would enter peculiarly into the service of God, would it not?
JT That is just the point on the first day of the week. According to Ephesians, we are raised up together, and made to sit down together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:6).
PAH This understanding then of the Son of God seems to be reserved for the cast out ones.
JT That is just what I thought we would come to this afternoon. We might say the Lord knew that he was cast out, but then the Lord takes the ground of hearing, and acting on what He hears. That is the point in verse 35: “Jesus heard that they had cast him out”, as if the Lord is saying, ‘I know all that happens amongst the brethren, and I am with them’. That is the very thing He is saying to everyone in this city at the present time. The Lord knows what we are going through, but He says, ‘I am with you, and you are going to be victorious!’ We shall be victorious in suffering.
CTMcC Is His being with the rejected ones, in the power of resurrection?
JT Very good; being with Christ. That is our position, we are with Him, we are publicly with Him.
[p. 147] He comes to us secretly now; when He comes for us presently, He will come openly; although one would be somewhat concerned that the whole truth should be told as to the Lord’s coming for us; still, He comes for us publicly in a sense, and we are raised publicly in a sense. The dead in Christ rise first. There is a real resurrection of those who are dead in Christ, but we who are alive and remain shall be changed. All these things are going to be verities, and we are to be living in hope of them, because hope is the great thing to set before our hearts: “Hope does not make ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which has been given to us”, (Romans 5:5). So that our position is invulnerable if we go through with the truth as we see it here in John 9.
JAA Romans 8:17 speaks of “Christ’s joint heirs”. Paul speaks of sonship before that, and then he speaks of us being “Christ’s joint heirs; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him Romans 8:17”. Suffering comes in here, and we come into the light of sonship.
JT Quite so. The resurrection is to be applied to our bodies. “Awaiting adoption, that is the redemption of our body (Romans 8:23)” is the full thought of salvation.
ENJ This man, when he had made a clear confession as far as his light would take him at the time, was cast out. Would it be right to say that the Lord is watching for such instances, and is ready to come to us with disclosures?
JT That is a good way to put things, and especially in view of what we are going through in the present current exercises in this city. The Lord knows all about it. This chapter ought to encourage us, that He is standing by us, and He will see us through to the end; that is what the chapter means.
PRP Would you link this thought with Daniel?
[p. 148] The three men in the fire, and one walking with them like unto the Son of God.
JT Very good. These three devoted men are mentioned about thirteen times in the chapter, showing how much heaven thought of them; and heaven is now looking on what we are going through in this city.
WB You have spoken of personality in the saints. Would this man in John 9 become a personality through these exercises?
JT That is what he is. He is one of the personalities in John’s gospel, and John loves personalities. The Lord Himself uses the expression, “I Jesus”, and John says, “I John”. God is looking for us to develop, in personality, what heaven recognises and honours.
ENJ If we make a definite stand for the Lord in relation to present difficulties, it may involve some opposition from unconverted relatives in the world, as seen in the parents here; they were not willing to identify themselves with what was taking place.
JT Our relatives are pretty sure to be against us if we are spiritual. John’s gospel brings that out. He says, “Ye, go up to this feast. I go not up to this feast, for my time is not yet fulfilled John 7:8”. So we would wait the Lord’s time.
RGW If we are prepared to accept the principle of rejection, the Lord having had it first, the completion of the scripture in Peter is for our encouragement. Though cast away of men, He is made head of the corner by God. Does that imply there is another system in which He will be Head?
JT That is why I read that passage in Peter. It might help if we read it again. “Behold, I lay in Zion a corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believes on him shall not be put to shame. To you therefore who believe is the preciousness; but to the disobedient, the stone which the builders cast away as worthless, this is become head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling and rock of offence”, 1 Peter 2:6 - 8. I think the brethren will all see that these passages, John 9 and 1 Peter 2, speak for themselves as to where we are, and what encouragement there is, that we may stand fast in what is true, and stand to right principles, and the Lord will not forsake us. He will be with us and favour us, so that we will not lose anything. We may feel that we are losing physical things, but we will gain spiritually, I am certain of it.
JSP What we get here in verse 6 would be fundamental, would it not, for our souls? “Because it is contained in the scripture: Behold, I lay in Zion a corner stone, elect, precious ... To you therefore who believe is the preciousness 1 Peter 2:6,7”.
JT How wonderful that is! To those who believe is the preciousness.
AM Would it apply, not only to the Son of God personally, but to the glorious system?
JT I would say that. The idea of the system should be always brought in, because that is the point of everything in the epistles, the system that God has set up, with Christ as the Head of it, and the Holy Spirit down here maintaining it in power.
JAA So that there is the setting forth of “the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness to his wonderful light”, (1 Peter 2:9).
JT These thoughts of Peter’s are very striking, and when we come to the second epistle, we will find that one thing leads on to another; so the whole structure is built up in Peter’s second epistle, so that we are stabilised in coming to the system.
JSP So that if any of us come into rejection, we have the truth of this in our own souls, and it would encourage us.
JT Then it is not only that the Person of Christ may be rejected, but there is the preciousness. That [p. 150] is what He is characteristically, what is worked out by the Spirit in us, the preciousness. “To you therefore who believe is the preciousness (1 Peter 2:7)”.
ENJ Peter takes account of sovereignty in our section: “Behold, I lay in Zion a corner stone, 1 Peter 2:6” that would be sovereign mercy.
JT So that the corner stone is not simply something built on the principle of a square, but round the corner; the corner is perfected, and whatever pressure may come, there is power to support it. That is the idea of a corner.